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All Replies on Why does Laguna Tools have so many unhappy customers ?

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View MonteCristo's profile

Why does Laguna Tools have so many unhappy customers ?

by MonteCristo
posted 06-05-2012 06:25 PM


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70 replies

70 replies so far

View Nicky's profile

Nicky

636 posts in 2746 days


#1 posted 06-11-2012 07:54 PM

Thank you for the post, this was an interesting read, and not unlike many others I have read. Before I purchase new equipment I do as much research as I can. If I read through 10 reviews and 1 was negative I may discount the negative review as the odd-ball.

Same theme about this company I’ve heard for years, well-engineered equipment, and poor customer service.

If Laguna is listening, you’ve lost a sale because of negative reviews. The only way to turn this around is to delight your customers.

-- Nicky

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

3455 posts in 2615 days


#2 posted 06-11-2012 08:24 PM

Oh well….Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances. Walk with your pocket book.
It is not just with Laguna (though I have no experience with them). That’s why I choose to buy face-to-face whenever possible. That being said, I have never had a bad experience when dealing with Grizzly. There are a bunch of green machines in my shop for that very reason.
I choose to buy tooling that will accomplish the basic tasks, not that which will supposedly last forever. Hey! I’m not gonna last forever, and the tools will be sold for pennies on the dollar anyway.
Dang! That just made me feel better.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2339 posts in 1538 days


#3 posted 06-11-2012 08:48 PM

Laguna tools look so shiny and nice, but I’ve never heard anything but negative comments about their CS. As well, I have also read in a number of places concerns about their QC. I’d never buy Laguna for these reasons. I have looked a number of times at their jointers as I’d like to upgrade my 6”, but I refuse to give a company my money if they will not stand behind their products. I have mostly General Int. machinery (bandsaw/TS/DC/jointer/drillpress); never had to test their CS because I’ve never had a problem with anything. Also own a Sawstop TS and a Clearvue cyclone DC; had a few small issues with their products but the CS was excellent

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View Scot's profile

Scot

344 posts in 2051 days


#4 posted 06-11-2012 08:48 PM

I do not have any Laguna tools only because I was aware of the CS issues by friends that do. I have used the tools and liked them.
But, based on what I have seen Laguna’s CS is like a lottery, you may be the one in a million customer they treat like gold, they make you feel like you own the company and give you anything you want. But it is 180 degrees out for all the other customers.

But they do have some nice tools.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View Tedster's profile

Tedster

2271 posts in 866 days


#5 posted 06-11-2012 09:55 PM

I think Laguna should make this right. After all, it’s in their best interest. What they should do is send a bunch of free tools to somebody who has never before purchased Laguna tools, or used them for that matter. Then when that person is delighted about getting a bunch of free Laguna tools, they should consider that not quite enough and send him all the accessories for all the tools, which also will be free. Now mind you, I have never purchased, owned or used a Laguna tool, and with my limited shop space, it would be a bit inconvenient to house all these free Laguna tools, but in the spirit of making things right, I think I might be willing to take them up on their offer of free tools. And I would promise to never complain about their customer service, no matter how bad it may be.

-- I support the 28th Amendment. http://www.wolf-pac.com/28th

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 843 days


#6 posted 06-11-2012 09:56 PM

When I first put up this post, I was a little freaked that no one commented. I could see that Laguna was not suceeding at muzzling disent (sp?) here as it does with great success on that “other forum” I alluded to (hats off to LJs !) but I was surprised that people perhaps seemed indifferent. Laguna is an active advertiser on LJs and is clearly trying to convince woodworkers to buy their stuff.

Also, it has kinda disappointed me that some who have not been jerked around by Laguna are so indifferent to those that have, but of course I am a Laguna victim. No wonder companies like Laguna stay in business way longer than they should.

I hope Laguna reads all these posts, especially the comment Bill White makes above. Some of us who are perhaps more idealistic (or picky or what ?) end up spending a lot of coin at places like Laguna. So when they stab you in the back on your way out the door, it hurts even more and sort of motivates a guy to get the word out . . .

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5456 posts in 2030 days


#7 posted 06-11-2012 10:09 PM

I have also read many intensely negative from Laguna customers. Every manufacturer releases some defective products on occasion so I don’t generally think twice about the occasional gripe, but the sheer numbers I’ve read pertaining to Laguna are surprising…I don’t have data, but I would guess that Laguna sells far fewer tools than Grizzly, Delta, Jet, or PM, yet the numbers are disproportionately high. These are often more than just the run of the mill post from a disappointed customer who’s new tool didn’t work as advertised. I’ve noticed several that are intensely angry. The high numbers and the level of hostility have always made me wondered what’s really going on behind the scenes. Thanks for the insights MC.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View paratrooper34's profile

paratrooper34

760 posts in 1606 days


#8 posted 06-11-2012 10:30 PM

This post is one of the main reasons why I enjoy this site.

I am looking at purchasing a bandsaw soon. I read about Laguna’s in a couple of magazines and considered purchasing their bandsaw. But guess what? I damn sure won’t now. I figure if you spend a pretty good chunk of change, you are owed some customer service. If Laguna doesn’t give a rat’s behind about customer service, this customer will take his money elsewhere.

Thanks for helping weed out a company I am surely not interested in now.

-- Mike

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

4923 posts in 1232 days


#9 posted 06-11-2012 10:47 PM

Why does Laguna Tools have so many unhappy customers ?

Laguna tools love to shoot themselves in the foot and excel in disastrous business practices.
I would not own any of their junk if it was given to me.

View Dusty56's profile

Dusty56

11659 posts in 2343 days


#10 posted 06-11-2012 10:53 PM

I think that after 408 views and counting , that the reason for so few comments appearing , is that the Laguna horse has pretty much died on this site.
There are numerous posts about their CS, most every single one is negative.
On occasion , someone (allegedly not an employee or friend of Laguna’s) will post something bright and cheery about the company and its CS , which is taken with a grain of salt around here.
So , don’t feel that your post isn’t being read or is ignored , it’s just old news for most of us here .
Take care : )

-- I'm absolutely positive that I couldn't be more uncertain!

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2339 posts in 1538 days


#11 posted 06-11-2012 10:55 PM

nice post knotscott; I agree with you, every company throws out some crap once in awhile, also no company has perfect CS (I’ve seen some recent rants about poor CS from Grizzly, which used to get universally stellar reviews about their CS). Laguna though seems to have a special knack for selling stuff that doesn’t work, isn’t machined properly or doesn’t fit and then REALLY pisses people off about it. Maybe they have a special niche market where people like getting poor CS, kind of like a couple of restaurants that are famous for their rude waiters etc.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View zzzzdoc's profile

zzzzdoc

506 posts in 1658 days


#12 posted 06-12-2012 01:52 AM

To be fair, I really haven’t had any issues with their CS on my 12” combination jointer/planer and 14SUV bandsaw. I ordered them, they arrived in fine shape, and they continue to work trouble-free. But I’ve seen many, many negative comments about their customer service. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. No I don’t work for them, blah, blah, YMMV. Void where prohibited by law.

My only complaints are with their chip collection on the jointer (pathetic despite modifying it and using it with a 5HP Oneida cyclone), and that the driftmaster fence attaches poorly to their own 14SUV.

-- Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1641 days


#13 posted 06-12-2012 02:05 AM

One of my favourite things about LJ is that you are free to give honest retellings of your experiences with ALL of the companies. I even complained about a different tool company on here once and they emailed me fairly soon after and tried to make it right. (It was Grizzly and they did indeed make it right.)

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View mark4345's profile

mark4345

55 posts in 1078 days


#14 posted 06-12-2012 02:07 AM

A little something to add to this. 7 months ago i was looking into getting a new table saw Laguna was one of the tools i was considering. They had no pricing on their website i could find so i had to fill out something for them to contact me to send me the info.

I first heard from them last week. I already have my saw…not a laguna. If it takes them that long to try and make a sale why would i want their product. If it took that long when they didnt already have the money….what if i had a problem?? who knows how long it would take to get resolved if at all…

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112089 posts in 2232 days


#15 posted 06-12-2012 02:14 AM

I have had issues in the past with Laguna and have never recommended their tools to anyone. I’ve have had rather long rants about them in the past so I won’t start all over again except to say buyer beware.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View woodworker59's profile

woodworker59

560 posts in 856 days


#16 posted 06-12-2012 04:00 AM

well you all have convinced me, there wont be any Laguna tools in my shop.. I really dislike a company that does not stand up for its customers. Where would any of us be if we sold someone a nice piece of furniture and then just blew them off if something happened and it needed our attention..granted most of us don’t do enough volume of work so that we could just write off customers, but laguna wont be able to either if they keep this up.. when there numbers get small enough, they will start to pay attention.. and with forums like this, there numbers will drop.. then see how they grovel and snivel to get your business back.. Papa.

-- Papa@papaswoodworking.com

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 941 days


#17 posted 06-12-2012 04:58 AM

I like to equip my shop with tools that are A) of the best quality that I can afford, and B) from a company that treats its customers with professionalism and respect. It sounds like Laguna fails the litmus test on point B.

It’s pretty sad that a company could easily make a situation like this right (and probably win a few customers in so doing) but chooses not to remedy the problem, for whatever reason. If it was my company, I’d at least be doing some damage control here. Laguna, where are you?

-- John, BC, Canada

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 843 days


#18 posted 06-12-2012 05:24 AM

Not to overstate the point, but Laguna won’t change because their idea of Customer Service comes right from the head(s) of the company and we all know a leopard doesn’t change its spots (where is a chameleon when you need one ?). In a way I feel sorry for the poor sods that work at Laguna. Jobs are hard to find, especially in California now that its economy is tanking and jobs are at a premium.

Once again, my hat goes off to LJs for alloqwing this post and to all those here who have come forward to acknowledge that this post is not the work of someone who expects special treatment or just likes to complain. It’s just another in an outrageously long (for the size of the company) list of experiences that should never have happened.

Someone posted an amazingly glowing acount of Laguna CS just before this post got started. I hope the testimonials here make it clear that, as someone above has said, Laguna appears to pick and chose who gets super CS and who doesn’t. A strange way to run a company !

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View Loren's profile

Loren

7556 posts in 2302 days


#19 posted 06-12-2012 05:28 AM

Um. Duh. ‘cause they probably sell more European
made machinery than all other dealers in USA combined.

More customers = more complaints.

Laguna does serious volume and the under $10k price
point stuff like combo machines people on forums
complain about is only a part of the business.

The company has a very serious business providing
high-end edgebanders, line boring machines,
panel saws, et al. to pro shops with financing.
In short , they sell to a lot of bigger fish and the
put a new machine in a shop fast when the old
one breaks down. They don’t make their money
on hobbiests making flowcharts comparing Laguna to
Minimax to Felder.

Additionally, like any shop that relies on boiler-room style
telemarketing to follow up on leads from the hobby
magazines, they put the inexperienced and desperate
sales reps who don’t know anything about machinery
or woodworking or customer service after the sale on
the smaller accounts. Like any such phone shop they
pay on commission and thus have high turnover.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Tedster's profile

Tedster

2271 posts in 866 days


#20 posted 06-12-2012 05:52 AM

Point well made, Loren. Not to dismiss this thread at all, as it does serve to warn us small timers to stay away from them. But at the same time it’s good to realize why it is the way it is. Laguna is not going to change how they deal with regard to small shops and hobbyists, and what you say about where they make their real money is exactly why. It’s good to keep these things in perspective.

-- I support the 28th Amendment. http://www.wolf-pac.com/28th

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 941 days


#21 posted 06-12-2012 05:57 AM

I don’t really buy that argument. If Laguna sells to retail customers then they’ve made a business decision to invest in that segment of the market. I’m not saying that they should treat Joe Hobbiest the same as a commercial account, but to entirely dismiss any customer’s concerns is just poor management. Who knows? Maybe the executive of one of those big commercial accounts is a LumberJock and reading this now…

-- John, BC, Canada

View Loren's profile

Loren

7556 posts in 2302 days


#22 posted 06-12-2012 06:09 AM

I’ve only bought from them once and it was a part for a used
Robland machine. The deal was not a hassle and the price
was fair.

I live in So Cal – dealing with them is no big deal for shops
here. In other areas you might want to look at other dealers
selling other lines but with closer offices. It’s only common
sense. Buying from a West Coast supplier when you live
on the East Coast is risk in some way. There are other
vendors of lines of industrial Euro machines in N. America.

I wouldn’t be seduced by special pricing or shipping offers –
if you are going to buy new machinery buy from a dealer
you feel you can work with in terms of regional and trucking
concerns. I buy all my stationary machinery used so I
have nobody to complain to. I’m used to it.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 843 days


#23 posted 06-12-2012 05:41 PM

I think Loren and TedW’s last comments help to explain why Laguna is stiill in business. And sadly the business world often involves playing hardball. But, as nwbusa points out, Laguna is playing a dangerous game. There are a lot of small shops, including mine, that wouldn’t go near them if a guy decided to expand.

Laguna got its start selling European imports – a savvy move. But back then the Chinese weren’t a factor. Now the lock that Felder, Hammer and all those guys had on quality complex machines is being seriously challenged. Look at the incredible success of Grizzly. They probably selll more in a day than Laguna sells in a year. And some of that isn’t just toys for a small shop.

Besides being morally wrong, I think treating only select customers well has never proven to be successful in the long run. As to the suggestion that Laguna is indifferent to all this negative flack from the likes of us on LJs, I am not so sure about that. My run in with them resulted to a phone call from none other than Catherine Helshoj herself. If we meant nothing to Laguna, I doubt that would have ever happened.

Sadly, I am not a spring chicken anymore but I am pretty sure I will last long enough to see Laguna tank. I’ll have a glass of wine to celebrate when that happens.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View Tedster's profile

Tedster

2271 posts in 866 days


#24 posted 06-12-2012 06:33 PM

nwbusa, I’m not suggesting that it’s good business practice to dismiss the small time customers, just that they may have made a conscious decision to put low level CS staff in charge of this particular sector. Personally, I think it’s a really bad decision.

They still have the opportunity to make things right by sending me a bunch of free tools, but they better hurry up before I change my mind.

-- I support the 28th Amendment. http://www.wolf-pac.com/28th

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1770 days


#25 posted 06-12-2012 07:08 PM

its crazy if a company tread hobbyist and small shops like that
if they make tools for that secment of the market
have they forgotten that a hobbyist can go pro
and the small shop maybee will grow to a big company one day
all big company´s have started in a backyard by a hobbyist with an idea

they have to respect us more
I´m pretty sure Torben is from the same country as me hearing his accent in the vidios
and if so I´m ashamed of being a Dane

Dennis

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5456 posts in 2030 days


#26 posted 06-12-2012 07:19 PM

It’s cheaper to get things right the first time. If that fails, it’s cheaper to make things right the second time than to alienate good clients who tell everyone they know what happened. The power of the internet has got to be biting them in the backside….this isn’t a new issue.

On a side note, 6 or 7 years ago, a good friend of mine was looking at big 16” bandsaws. He looked at Jet, Grizzly, Laguna, and Minimax (among others). The Laguna guys at the Woodworking Show kept badmouthing Minimax, but the Minimax rep wouldn’t utter a negative word about any of his competitors, even when we told him what the Laguna guys were up to. My friend respected the Minimax rep’s composure, and bought the MM16….he loves it, has received great customer service and impressive performance from it.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Richforever's profile

Richforever

739 posts in 2375 days


#27 posted 06-12-2012 07:21 PM

I didn’t buy my bandsaw from Laguna because of bad reviews on customer support. Now days, a company that isn’t balanced in quality of products, care of employees, and customer support just won’t last very long. Balance is the key.

-- Rich, Seattle, WA

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1447 posts in 1169 days


#28 posted 06-12-2012 07:57 PM

So who is Kelby, who posted a few days ago about his CS guy who stepped out of church to help him out? A fake? I posted there that the deed was outstanding. Maybe it was not true? Kelby has under 30 posts. Was I suckered into thinking that Laguna is allright?

I will say to the person who said that Laguna sells mainly to the large shops, so does Grizzly, and very successfully. Shops like Gibson, who move more wood through their plant in a couple days than most of us do in a lifetime. It would appear that Laguna will eventually bite the dust if they depend on repeat sales.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

3998 posts in 983 days


#29 posted 06-12-2012 08:12 PM

I think the “premium product” marketing can backfire on some of these companies…. as customers expect a lot more when they shell out 2x the coin for their product. Then when the CS falls short people feel they got burnt and have the wrath of Thor in their bones.

If they’re going to market themselves as a premium product and charge the prices they do, they really do need to get it right the first time and bend over backwards if they don’t.

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View Durnik150's profile

Durnik150

647 posts in 1976 days


#30 posted 06-12-2012 08:34 PM

It would be interesting to see if Laguna has the spine to hop on here and give a reply. I guarantee that they are well aware of this string of comments and have their opinions.

What do you say Laguna, is it time to turn the corner and start fresh? Or not.

We’ll see.

-- Behind the Bark is a lot of Heartwood----Charles, Centennial, CO

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2833 posts in 903 days


#31 posted 06-12-2012 08:57 PM

I posted something similar in another thread as well. Background: I am an IT engineer/manager heavily foucsed on quality assurance and preventing repeat defects. I have had a ton of very formal and structured training over the years, specifically on interpreting feedback. Please read the example below:

You and your wife/friend/coworker/whomever go to McDonalds. There are 3 outcomes:

1. Your food is exactly as your ordered it, the right temperature, and served promptly.
2. Your food is not how your ordered it, it is cold, and took longer than your thought it should
3. Your food is exceptional, it was ready before you even pulled up to the window, and the employees were really nice

You are 87% likely to tell many people about #1, close to 0% likely to tell anyone (even the person sitting next to you while you are eating your food) about number 2, and only about 10% likely to tell anyone about #3.

Most unsolicited feedback is negative. It is human nature. If something is completely satisfactory and ordinary in every way, most people keep silent. However that is what the expectation is. We do not go to McDonalds to have our taste buds blown away. The same with tools. Most people expect them to do what they advertise. If that happens, it’s no big deal because it is what you expect.

I bet if the site admins pulled a report of all the reviews here, more than 80% would be either 1,4,or 5 stars. 2, and 3 are commonly given when people feel they have an ordinary experience.

Moral of the story – Silence is the language of satisfaction.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 843 days


#32 posted 06-12-2012 10:15 PM

lumberjoe:

I think you are arguing that the 87% appies to #2, not the satisfied guys in #1. But, if you are arguing that Laguna doesn’t have a systemic CS problem, I think you’re wrong and I think the other replies here support that. As the saying goes, “If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck”.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2833 posts in 903 days


#33 posted 06-12-2012 10:25 PM

You are correct. You will likely NEVER hear from the “number 1’s”, but rest assured there are MANY out there. I have no experience with Laguna directly, however as a generalization unsolicited feedback (reviews online, general forum posts that are not in response to a specific query as examples) statistically tend to paint an unrealistic picture – either overly positive or overly negative – never average. Categorizing something as a “duck” without a broad sampling of first or second hand experiences could be unfair. I’m not saying feedback should be ignored, but it should not encompass your entire decision making process.

To make things more complicated, you also need to take into account the size of the sample. A greater than average responses (positive or negative) should not be dismissed as statistical outlyers, but further analyzed and corrective actions should be taken if negative, and lessons to apply to troubled areas of the business should be realized if positive.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 843 days


#34 posted 06-12-2012 11:13 PM

Hi Joe:

I also have a background in statistics and I agree with your reply. In the case of Laguna, hoever, it is obvious that the number of “1 stars” is way too high. And it’s got a long track record of “1 stars”. When I rrealized that I was being stabbed in the back by Laguna, I did some digging and quickly found that experiences like mine had occurred at Laguna for years. When this all started, it is hard to say, but given that it can be traced right to the top of the company, my guess is that it started as soon as the company started to feel the heat that inevitably comes with the rough and tumble of the business world. Maybe sooner. Some companies try to do CS even better when this happens but it sure looks like Laguna isn’t one of them

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View Alexandre's profile

Alexandre

1417 posts in 846 days


#35 posted 06-12-2012 11:49 PM

This is where you get a Rikon, Grizzly, Powermatic or a General International

-- My terrible signature...

View BenI's profile

BenI

326 posts in 833 days


#36 posted 06-13-2012 01:41 AM

Probably won’t be buying any bigger woodworking tools in the near future but glad I read this post in case I do, definitely won’t be Laguna.

Thank you for the post

-- Ben from IL

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2833 posts in 903 days


#37 posted 06-13-2012 12:28 PM

My responses are not defending Laguna in any way. I have never done business with them, and I am not in their target demographic. I can tell you a lot about customer service in general. My engineering specialty is in network voice applications, infrastructure and design. Have you ever called your cable TV provider or credit card customer service lines? I’m guessing a lot of you have. Often times you are asked to enter some account or identifying info. Most people think that the information is used to expedite your call and get you routed to the right department/CS agent. A lot of times the opposite is true.
In a LOT of cases, calls are NOT answered in the order they are received. Your account standing has a lot to do with how long you are on hold. If you are a “small” customer, you have a negative bill repayment history, or meet several other factors, you will be on hold longer, and you will be routed to less skilled and possibly off-shore CS agents. This strategy is called priority queuing. It’s sad, but a lot of companies are not focused on providing excellent customer service to everyone. They want to keep their valued customers happy, and provide a minimum acceptable level of quality to everyone else. This could be the case with Laguna as well. I’m sure they have large customers spending well over 100k, and maybe even spending that frequently. If they lose a customer buying one piece of equipment, that could be acceptable in their business model.
I personally try to take my business where it is appreciated in my price point and target demographic. As an example, Woodcraft tends to be a little pricier than their competitors, but every time I walk into the store I received excellent service from everyone that works there and sometimes even vendors that stop by. Knowing what goes into customer service, that is a premium, not an expectation. If the woodcraft markup is something I feel is acceptable over the competition based on the service I receive, I will gladly pay it.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View Richard's profile

Richard

400 posts in 1346 days


#38 posted 06-13-2012 02:05 PM

Having no experience with Laguna, I cannot comment on their customer service or their tools.

What I find interesting is what appears to be their aggressive attempts to suppress negative comments from customers.

I had already made up my mind before this thread came up, that Laguna was never going to see a dime from me, just on the strength of the CS complaints here on LJ’s. This thread has only served to reinforce my decision.

-- "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 843 days


#39 posted 06-13-2012 03:59 PM

Hi Richard:

You are right on the money when you say Laguna aggressively works at suppressing negative customer comments, especially when it comes to their CS.

I notice on the other Laguna post that is very active at the moment that a link is provided to another forum. Some forums are touchy about referencing other forums so let’s just call this other forum SAWMILL_RIVER or SMR for short.

SMR is the forum on which I first attempted to tell my story of horrendous Laguna CS. Things went well for a week or so. A lot of people responded, with almost all of them supportive, just like here on LJs.

My post on SMR resulted in a call from Laguna’s head (business) honcho, Catherine Helshoj. I gave her details of my miserable experience with her staff in CS. One employee in particular had been rude, bordering on abnoxious, and had discounted my problems saying “well, you got the thing on your TSS, what’s the problem ?”. Well, the problem was that what should have tajken a few hours took well over a day because there were NO INSTRUCTONS, NO DOCUMENTATION, NO DIAGRAMS, no nothing. And it turned out that contrary to what Laguna had stated, the piece wasn’t even designed for their TSS !!

When Catherine Helshoj heard the above she was anything but sympathetic. She backed up her employee 100% saying that he had been there for years and was a great guy. No “my goodness, I’ll have to look into this” here.

What happened next showed me the kind of hardball that can play out when you rock the boat, even if you have every right to do so. Soon after talking to Catherine Helshoj, I tried to sign onto SMR (they require you to sign on or at least they did) and my account was blocked.

I GOOGLED the name of the guy who owns SMR and emailed one of his sites to ask what was up. No response. I then accessed SMR through another account and sent him a PM. No response at all.

Laguna Tools is an advertiser on SMR. Is it just a coincidence that I disappeared from SMR just after I had a run in with Catherine Helshoj ? IMHO, I don’t think so.

It gets better. EVERYTHING ABOUT MY NEGATIVE EXPERIENCE WITH LAGUNA TOOLS, INCLUDING ALL THOSE SUPPORTIVE REPLIES, VANISHED FROM SMR.

How’s that for controlling negative Customer feedback !!!

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 843 days


#40 posted 06-13-2012 04:03 PM

Hi Joe:

Good points ! I think a lot of us are totally unaware of the hardball some businesses play. Thanks for sharing !

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1447 posts in 1169 days


#41 posted 06-13-2012 05:08 PM

Well, following this thread and Kelby’s thread, I got curious about ownership and other things about Laguna tools. In sales, I have access to a couple databases other may not. I did see where on one website that tracks professionals in companies in this country, Laguna had 15 listed, nine of which had changed e-mails, bad or disconnected e-mails, or no longer at the company. Jason Cotton, the CS rep, was not listed so it is in some part incomplete. But then, I ran across this: http://lagunatoolssucks.com/index.html
I have to be honest, I never have seen a complete website dedicated to the trashing of a company. Someone has too much time on their hands.

And this for all our good Canadian friends. It seems to be fair and honest. http://flairwoodworks.com/2011/06/12/my-experience-with-laguna-tools-inc-and-canadian-woodworker/

And lastly this, which also seems to be fair but reinforces why I am buying the Grizzly G0513X2BF bandsaw. http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/LT-16.shtml

Or maybe you would like to get ahold of this fellow, who was General Manager of Laguna Tools for ten years up until April, 2007. http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=48535463&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=5miJ&locale=en_US&srchid=21e074d5-9a1e-4ccb-82bd-a4b99702240c-0&srchindex=1&srchtotal=6&goback=%2Efps_PBCK_Gregory+Godbout_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_1_R_*1_*51_*1_*51_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_name_link

All this is public information, completely available to anyone on the net with no payment or restrictions. Come to your own conclusions.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1770 days


#42 posted 06-13-2012 08:58 PM

thanks for the links Tennessee …. but the last one just gave me a site where we can
sign in ... nothing ells

Dennis

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5456 posts in 2030 days


#43 posted 06-13-2012 10:20 PM

Wow….the fact that lagunatoolssucks.com exists speaks volumes, and is consistent with how PO’d the customers are in many of the complaints I’ve read. It’d be very easy to dismiss the site as an extreme act by a disgruntled customer, or even from a competitor, but based on the tone in many posts that I’ve read over the years, I’m inclined to believe it’s at least somewhat representative of the level of frustration some folks have reached. It’s really a shame that any business can be so unconcerned about legitimate issues with products that they chose to sell and profit from….business has to be mutually beneficial or it just doesn’t work out.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 843 days


#44 posted 06-13-2012 10:30 PM

I wonder what Kelby will say to the excellent digging Paul in Tennessee has done. Just more whacko’s Kelby ??? They can’t all be nutters.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1447 posts in 1169 days


#45 posted 06-14-2012 07:41 PM

Dennis, sorry about the last posting. It was just a listing for an ex-employee of Laguna who left in April, 2007. He now runs a business selling high end tools and also runs an excellent workshop for cabinet builders with another couple of very smart wood people, I think in VA. He has been in wood tools most of his life and spent 10 year and 1 month at Laguna.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1770 days


#46 posted 06-14-2012 09:34 PM

it sounds a little like …. he didn´t got the golden handshake when he left
nomatter how good he runs busyness´s ellswhere
if he talks bad about his former employer that paid his salery … his opinion doesn´t count
his opinion can be the true version … I don´t know …. but it doesn´t realy worth two cent
not defending Laguna here … :-)
Dennis

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1447 posts in 1169 days


#47 posted 06-15-2012 11:55 AM

Dennis: I’ve never met the man. He might have just run his course at Laguna and moved on to bigger and better things. His profile on Linkedin is one of a very smart, knowledgable tool man. His current position benefits custom cabinet and window makers across this country who want to attend his workshops. I never said he stated anything about his former employer, just ran across his profile and noted that he spent 10 years at Laguna as their GM, which in my mind, if you could get his opinion, it probably would be accurate. That being said, I have no intention to approach him. It was research only. I would, however, not mind attending one of his workshops!

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1770 days


#48 posted 06-15-2012 06:15 PM

I have misunderstood you there Tennessee
since the list you talked about I asumed was something ells … sorry

Dennis

View jusfine's profile

jusfine

2280 posts in 1581 days


#49 posted 06-15-2012 06:25 PM

I have not read all of the previous posts, and no offense to anyone who has posted, but it seems to me there are always the same people slamming the same things, any opportunity to get a negative word in on Laguna is taken.

I am not in love with or connected to the company, but have dealt with them and have purchased a number of tools and had them shipped to Canada over a 10 year period. All have been fine without incident or damage or issue.

I bought their hollow chisel mortiser a couple of years ago, there was a delay in shipping it to me (30+ days), I was compensated with a leather apron, an extra set of chisels and a couple bandsaw blades. Seemed really fair to me, I did tell them I was not in a rush, they still sent extras and apologized every time I spoke with them.

To offset some of the negatives here, I have only a positive experience to report.

-- Randy "You are judged as much by the questions you ask as the answers you give..."

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

208 posts in 1976 days


#50 posted 06-15-2012 06:31 PM

“And lastly this, which also seems to be fair but reinforces why I am buying the Grizzly G0513X2BF bandsaw. http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/LT-16.shtml

That shouldn’t have any impact on your purchase decision since that is a much older LT16 built by Meber not the current machine.

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