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View WooDR67's profile

zero clearance dado damage

by WooDR67
posted 05-08-2012 02:31 AM


27 replies so far

View DKV's profile

DKV

3194 posts in 1257 days


#1 posted 05-08-2012 02:43 AM

What is a zero clearance dado insert? Do you buy an insert for every possible blade set width?

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

View Tedster's profile

Tedster

2290 posts in 964 days


#2 posted 05-08-2012 02:53 AM

Absolutely dangerous. If the blade catches that plate on the up-cut it will throw it at you like a boomerang, but harder and faster. If you can’t return it, find a way to secure the back of it down. I’m surprised you were able to cut it with that tab missing.

Also curious, zero clearance ‘dado” insert? How does that work with different sizes?

-- I support the 28th Amendment. http://www.wolf-pac.com/28th

View WooDR67's profile

WooDR67

49 posts in 1066 days


#3 posted 05-08-2012 03:00 AM

Its the plate that covers the blade on a table saw and I bough it with an Olshun 8” stacked dado set to cut 5/8 inch dados for some decorative garden boxes Im building for my wife.

-- "It is amazing what you can accomplish when you dont care who gets the credit"

View WooDR67's profile

WooDR67

49 posts in 1066 days


#4 posted 05-08-2012 03:04 AM

I assume that it is only “zero clearance ” when I use the width that originally I cut the plate with (or larger) but I assume it is still okay if I use it with a smaller width (assuming I secure the backside) THANKS probably should have checked the forum BEFORE I cut the insert, could have saved money and stayed safe.

-- "It is amazing what you can accomplish when you dont care who gets the credit"

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1822 days


#5 posted 05-08-2012 03:09 AM

I’ve never heard of trying to go for zero clearance with a dado cutter. There are a nearly infinite number of possible width and height setups and the zero cllearance part never lasts past the first couple of setups.

As far as that tab goes, I make my own inserts and just drop them into the throat. I’ve never lost one in over 30 years of making sawdust. – lol

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View Tedster's profile

Tedster

2290 posts in 964 days


#6 posted 05-08-2012 03:23 AM

Now I get it… it’s meant for that one particular width makes sense. Still, I’m surprised it didn’t flip back at you when raising the blade up through it. I may be wrong, but I’d figure out a way to secure it. But I’ve never had a problem with rip-out when cutting dados, since the blade is at such a low angle. If the regular plate has a wide enough opening, maybe try a few test cuts to see if the zero clearance is really necessary.

-- I support the 28th Amendment. http://www.wolf-pac.com/28th

View TCCcabinetmaker's profile

TCCcabinetmaker

925 posts in 1108 days


#7 posted 05-08-2012 03:27 AM

have to concur with sawkerf, the only way you can really catch a throat plate of that nature is to start the saw past the height allowable for the blade in the insert, which well you’d notice, if you raise a saw into a plate it should cut through the insert before it can catch.

However a good sharp dado set of decent quality should aleviate the need for a zero clearance plate.

-- The mark of a good carpenter is not how few mistakes he makes, but rather how well he fixes them.

View jmos's profile

jmos

681 posts in 1123 days


#8 posted 05-08-2012 11:59 AM

You could always try gluing/screwing a small piece of wood/plastic on the bottom of the insert to replace the tab. The tab doesn’t have to be able to withstand the entire force of the motor spinning the blade (the original tab isn’t that strong), just enough force to allow the blade to cut the insert if it comes in contact.

TedW, I would hope when he initially cut the ZCI he had something clamped over the top of it to keep it in place, which would have prevented it from kicking up. I wouldn’t ever try to cut a new ZCI without it being clamped down.

It’s probably fine to use now if you don’t go to the full height you used to cut the insert, but I would feel better adding some sort of stop in the front just in case.

-- John

View miles125's profile

miles125

2179 posts in 2759 days


#9 posted 05-08-2012 12:13 PM

Buying plate inserts is similarly as absurd as a woodworker buying push sticks and feather boards. You’re a woodworker. Make them!

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View Scot's profile

Scot

344 posts in 2149 days


#10 posted 05-08-2012 12:22 PM

I’m with Miles, I make my own. The zero clearance inserts for the new Unisaw are over $50each. I can buy 1/2” corian for that much and make dozens in just a few hours.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 1039 days


#11 posted 05-08-2012 02:57 PM

“Buying plate inserts is similarly as absurd as a woodworker buying push sticks and feather boards. You’re a woodworker. Make them!”

That’s actually a bit of an absurd statement… but in any event, for the OP, I’d contact Woodcraft and explain what happened, I am sure they would offer a refund or exchange.

-- John, BC, Canada

View Dallas's profile

Dallas

3213 posts in 1240 days


#12 posted 05-08-2012 04:08 PM

I’m with Miles and Scot. I got a set of ZCI’s and dado inserts with my BT3100. the saw was at least 10 years old when I bought it and I’ve had it for two years….. none of them have ever been cut. I use them as a template to make wooden ZCI’s and use the original metal insert when needed, usually for dado work.

nwbusa, why would you think it absurd to make your own push sticks and inserts if you are a wood worker?

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 1039 days


#13 posted 05-08-2012 05:06 PM

I don’t thinks it’s absurd to make one’s own ZCIs… I make mine too. I think it’s a bit silly to state that because we are woodworkers, we should make all of our wood items ourselves. That’s like telling a metal worker to make his own rivets, because they are made of metal. Sometimes, it makes sense to buy vs. make your own, even when the product in question is made of wood.

-- John, BC, Canada

View WooDR67's profile

WooDR67

49 posts in 1066 days


#14 posted 05-09-2012 02:01 AM

I clamped it down on both sides. I want to make zero clearance inserts but Im not sure how. Any suggestions? I have a Ridgid R4512 and it has a 1/8 ” lip. Any how too videos for that?

-- "It is amazing what you can accomplish when you dont care who gets the credit"

View Dlow's profile

Dlow

70 posts in 1441 days


#15 posted 05-09-2012 02:14 AM

Use plexiglass or lexan.

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 1039 days


#16 posted 05-09-2012 02:24 AM

I have the same saw and use 1/8” hardboard. A 1/4 sheet costs a few bucks and makes… lots. Get some double sided carpet tape and use the metal throat plate that came with the saw and a pattern bit with a router table to knock em out.

-- John, BC, Canada

View Tom148's profile

Tom148

39 posts in 1017 days


#17 posted 05-09-2012 02:48 AM

I bought a zero clearance insert and sent it back when I saw what I was paying $30 for. I made several in about 1 hour from scrap plywood. I just drilled a pilot hole and put an 8 penny finish nail as a tang to hold down the rear end.

-- Tom

View WooDR67's profile

WooDR67

49 posts in 1066 days


#18 posted 05-10-2012 03:11 PM

Well mission accomplished. I made a dado insert with some pine. I ripped a
2×4 in to 1/4 and joined the pieces at the sides to make it wide enough.

-- "It is amazing what you can accomplish when you dont care who gets the credit"

View Gregn's profile

Gregn

1642 posts in 1737 days


#19 posted 05-10-2012 03:38 PM

I make my own as well. If they don’t fit snugly in place, I’ll use double stick carpet tape to hold the insert in place. Just be sure the insert is flush with the table, no problems.

-- I don't make mistakes, I have great learning lessons, Greg

View Dallas's profile

Dallas

3213 posts in 1240 days


#20 posted 05-10-2012 04:00 PM

WooDR67: See? I knowed Ewe culd doit! LOL Good job.

Think of it this way: most of what they want to sell you in those fancy stores rely on the fact that you haven’t considered making the item yourself.

There is nothing difficult about making a ZCI, although when I make them I make them a bit shallow so I can shim them up to the correct level.

I’ve used everything from pine to cedar to sycamore to oak to Osage Orange to.. to…. to…...

One hint here: I use my dremel with a sanding cylinder to carve out the places that need to have clearance and I only cut the edges (rabbets/rebates) as much as needed for it to fit in right.

There are no tabs on my Ryobi BT3100 just screws that hold each end down.
On my old Ryobi BTS10s and my even older Ridgid, there were tabs. I made mine out of those fold over spring clips for holding lots of papers together.

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

View WooDR67's profile

WooDR67

49 posts in 1066 days


#21 posted 05-11-2012 12:52 AM

Here is the finished product, to the left is the $25 insert compared to the one i made basically for free, and the one I made fits better. I messed up on the back but this was a practice run anyway.

-- "It is amazing what you can accomplish when you dont care who gets the credit"

View MNgary's profile

MNgary

236 posts in 1170 days


#22 posted 05-12-2012 06:32 AM

Woodcraft has a 90 day satisfaction guarantee – return if not satisfied. Explain why and I’m confident they will honor your request to replace the same.

-- I dream of the world where a duck can cross the road and no one asks why.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

2991 posts in 1997 days


#23 posted 05-12-2012 10:03 PM

In the first place, I wouldn’t bother with a ZCI for a dado blade for all the obvious reasons. If you use a ZCI for a saw blade, you will need an insert for each blade because the kerf is different for each blade. If you have the slightest amount of “wobble” or backlash, it will destroy the insert, even if it’s only a few thousands of an inch. The best material I have found is 1/2” Baltic Birch plywood. I drill for leveling screws using a tap drill one size smaller than recommended and run the tap through. This gives you a very tight and secure grip on the set screw and won’t work loose due to vibration. Inserts need to be strong and remain straight because you take your depth of cut measurements from the insert. The best inserts I have seen are made of metal with a dovetailed slot to accept sacrificial wood strips.

View SCOTSMAN's profile

SCOTSMAN

5594 posts in 2338 days


#24 posted 05-12-2012 10:19 PM

Wow be careful brother those dadoe blades are not allowed here in Europe.Our health and safety won’t allow saws with a big enough, or long enough arbour for a set to be used. The threads stop short if you know what I mean.It’s something to do with the need to remove the guards to use them so please be safe. Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

View WooDR67's profile

WooDR67

49 posts in 1066 days


#25 posted 05-13-2012 06:44 AM

I only cut the dado insert because it was what was on my saw, the insert was practice. I would return it to woodcraft but Im going to use it as a template.

-- "It is amazing what you can accomplish when you dont care who gets the credit"

View klassenl's profile

klassenl

119 posts in 1412 days


#26 posted 05-13-2012 01:11 PM

My grandfathers old Rockwell and my General both have throat plates that are not held down by anything except gravity.

-- When questioned about using glue on a garbage bin I responded, "Wood working is about good technique and lots of glue........I have the glue part down."

View MNgary's profile

MNgary

236 posts in 1170 days


#27 posted 05-15-2012 06:15 AM

I make my zero clearance inserts out of wood and install a 3/32 inch dowel near the bottom of the back side to prevent them from kicking up. Also, I drill and then use a machinist thread cutter through four locations so I can insert allen set screws to level the insert with the table top.

On my non-dado insert I put a 3/32 inch dowel into the top (behind the blade) because I don’t have a riving knife installed.

-- I dream of the world where a duck can cross the road and no one asks why.

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