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Newbie Table Saw, PC PCB270TS/C10FL, CM 21833 or Ridgid 4512 ? or?

by TraveledSome
posted 04-30-2012 03:49 PM


50 replies so far

View crank49's profile

crank49

4030 posts in 2934 days


#1 posted 04-30-2012 05:48 PM

I have had the Craftsman 21833 for two years. I can’t see any difference between my saw and the Ridgid 4512; and I looked real hard. So, I think they would both have the same weakness. That weakness is the way the trunion mechanism raises and lowers the blade. There is something in there that causes the “blade to miter slot” alignment to change when the blade is raised or lowered. Drives me nuts. I realigned this saw at least 6 times since I had it. Will not stay. If I had it to do over, I would have gotten the $300 Porter Cable PCB220 jobsite saw, knowing it is not cast iron and it is not an induction motor and it has no belt drive. At least it would stay in alignment and I could have built a cabinet with outfeed table for it to mount on. That saw does have standard miter slots which is just a necessity as far as I’m concerned. Some day I will have a real cabinet saw, but the Craftsman, and by association, the Ridgid are just a waste of time. IMHO

Before I bought the Craftsman I looked at the PC 270TS and its Hitachi cousin, and just did not like the fence. Very weak and twisty. I felt like as easy as it was to twist it out of plumb with one hand, how could it hold up to a large board pushing against it. Then I read about the plastic gear in the trunion mechanism and that shifted me to the Craftsman. At the time I bought my saw, the Ridgid version was not introduced yet.

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jpc

139 posts in 3144 days


#2 posted 04-30-2012 06:36 PM

Hey “traveledsome” I too have the craftsman saw you mentioned,It was my step up to a “big boy” saw, and even with those alignment issue’s, once you work thru that , Its done me right,and im happy with it. Whatever you choose, im sure you will be happy with it, good luck

View Milo's profile

Milo

869 posts in 3282 days


#3 posted 04-30-2012 06:39 PM

I say keep your eyes open for a used Delta Uni, and rebuild it, if you must. You’ll get a great saw, and learn a LOT. There is TONS of info out there on Delta Uni’s (they get much love), and you’ll enjoy taking it apart and rebuilding it. There’s an excellent website for a place in Mass. that can help a lot (Saw Center (?)

Thats what I did.

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1100 posts in 2249 days


#4 posted 04-30-2012 07:10 PM

A lot of folks are going to suggest getting a nice used saw and I can’t say I disagree. You should be aware, however, that many of the used saws won’t have a riving knife which I think is a great safety feature to have.

I got a Steel City 35990G and I like it a lot. It’s not a cabinet saw, (it’s a hybrid), but once it’s set up and tuned a little, it’s a super nice saw. Right now I’m building kitchen cabinets with it.. It has cabinet mounted trunions instead of the table mounted trunions found on a lot of the less expensive saws.

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knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#5 posted 04-30-2012 07:44 PM

The PCB270TS has a plastic elevation gear that I’d be concerned about. The R4512 and 21833 can have alignment issues (doesn’t seem to effect all of them). I can’t think of any other new full size saws in the $500 range. I’d probably go with the R4512 or the 21833 and make sure its right. I’d lean toward the R4512 for the LSA if the prices are comparable.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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Durnik150

647 posts in 3284 days


#6 posted 04-30-2012 08:10 PM

I have the Ridgid 4511 which is pretty much the same as the Ridgid you are looking at and have been really happy with it. It hasn’t had any problems with bogging down and is as accurate as I have ever needed it to be. Overall I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it.

The Steel City is also pretty much the same unit since Steel City and Ridgid were both being made in the same factory.

Best wishes and good luck with whatever new tool you purchase.

-- Behind the Bark is a lot of Heartwood----Charles, Centennial, CO

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harley04

27 posts in 2729 days


#7 posted 04-30-2012 08:18 PM

I have a PCB270TS that I have used for 4 years without a problem. It does what I ask as a hobbyist woodworker.It has good power even cutting 4×4,s without grunting. I also have had no problem with the elevation gear but I do keep the sawdust and any buildup cleaned out. On my saw the fence is rigid and does not flex so I can not comment on that. The only thing I ran into was that the provided blade was poor but I planned to replace it with an upgrade anyway.

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hairy

2654 posts in 3495 days


#8 posted 04-30-2012 08:19 PM

Try this: http://www.searchtempest.com/

It will search all craigslist’s in the mileage range you choose. I think you will get more bang for your bucks with a used one. Look for tablesaw and also table saw.

100 miles around zip code 37402. http://www.searchtempest.com/results.php?location=37402&maxDist=100&region_us=1&search_string=tablesaw&keytype=adv&Region=na&cityselect=zip&page=0&showeb=1&category=8&subcat=sss&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

-- My reality check bounced...

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Scot

344 posts in 3359 days


#9 posted 04-30-2012 08:58 PM

Having used unisaws for years, that I have bought cheap and rebuilt myself I have to second what Milo says. You will know the saw inside and out and it will last a lifetime. Riving knife and other nice retro kits are available for most models.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

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crank49

4030 posts in 2934 days


#10 posted 04-30-2012 10:30 PM

There is a huge difference between the Ridgid 4511 and the 4512. The 4511 had a granite top and because of that the trunions were cabinet mounted. The 4512 was its replacement and mounts the trunion to the table top, an inferior design.

If I could find a 4511 I’d much prefer it to the 4512; except for the riving knife thing.

I really think the Grizzly 690 has a good solid set of mechanicals and it or the equivalent Steel City would be my choice for my next saw. Or possibly SawStop if I hit the lottery.

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ROBZ71LM7

11 posts in 2181 days


#11 posted 04-30-2012 11:42 PM

I’d go with a full cabinet saw and don’t stop in between. I got the 715p and have serious blade alignment issues that also plague the Ridgid 4512. It really seams that once you go above $500 that you need to spend $1250 or more to get a quality saw when talking new.

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toolie

2120 posts in 2591 days


#12 posted 05-01-2012 02:29 AM

i’m with the big saw guys. only a 1930s era right tilt delta unisaw with a 50” bies fence, 5 hp 3phase motor and a premium WWII blade will cut wood. anything less just won’t do any good work at all. i mean, after all, wouldn’t you just love to find one of those unisaws that needs a ton of restoration and spend several months rehabbing it to usefull shape before getting to cut stick one? and don’t forget that those older cabinet saws don’t have riving knives and are right tilt saws(that old c-man of your dad’s was probably an emerson electric built LEFT tilt saw).

whatever you do, don’t look at craigslist or check out the swap and sell areas of other forums. that’s where i found the compnents for the above early 1970s era c-man TS shown above. it has cut WHATEVER i have thrown at it without hesitation, provided i fit it with a blade appropriate to the task at hand. beware of the “battlestar gallactica” syndrome i sarcastically recapped in the first paragraph. there are people out there who earnestly believe that ONLY a cabinet saw is the solution for everyone’s needs.

i am a big ridgid fan, primarily because i think most of their tools offer a lot of value (bang for the buck) and the lifetime service agreement means you never have to pay for repairs. i would, however, be a little leary of the 4512. the ridgid forum has a few unsettling threads about the blade changing it’s position relative to the miter slot as the blade is raised and lowered. can’t imaging what would make that happen. i’d get the 4512 over it’s c-man counterpart because it will probably cost less and the ridgid would be covered by the LSA, PROVIDED you rememebr to register the tool for the program. good luck!

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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sandhill

2128 posts in 3887 days


#13 posted 05-01-2012 02:39 AM

Sorry to say this and a lot of people will disagree. Save your money and expand your search to other towns near you. You need to Wait for the right one to come to you. It will and some times the older saws are the better ones when you compare them to what you get from sears and the cheap outlets. Check with wood working clubs a guy at my club was selling a DELTA Unisaw for $450.00 made in the 80s but it was like new.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#14 posted 05-01-2012 04:35 AM

Dunno if you’re still checking in on this thread, but in case you are, Lowes has the Steel City 35990SS for $615 in our area….a bit over budget, but is about the only other new full size saw I can think of near this price range. A 10% coupon would get it pretty close to budget.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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toolie

2120 posts in 2591 days


#15 posted 05-01-2012 12:02 PM

i don’t know about that steel city saw. the lowes ad notes the following:

“Seamless stamped steel table top “

could it be that the table top is not cast iron?

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1100 posts in 2249 days


#16 posted 05-01-2012 12:59 PM

The Steel City 35990SS has stamped steel wings. Some folks think that’s a big detriment, but the R4512 has stamped wings and it’s still a nice saw. Miter slots are machined into the cast iron main table.

The 35990C has the cast iron wings and split miter slots

The 35990G has granite top and wings and split miter slots

Steel City has (had?) a sale going on and their prices were lower than Home Depot or Lowes were advertising. I got mine from a local equipment supplier at the Steel City advertised price. I just rechecked the flyer… Price on the stamped wing model is $599 good through June 30th 2012. The cast iron and granite top models are both $649.

Some folks have a real problem with the split miter slots. I wrote up a how-to on setting them up and it’s on here somewhere I think. If you follow it, it’s a piece of cake to get them dead on.

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AUBrian

86 posts in 2634 days


#17 posted 05-01-2012 02:09 PM

I bought a 4512 about a month ago, and never could get it to align….returned it and opened another one in the store to check alignment, same issue. From what I hear, if you get a good one, they’re great, but if you get one like what I had, which was .1 off over the length of the blade, raised to ~1.5”, and that was after alignment, you’ll have nothing but frustration.

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nwbusa

1021 posts in 2249 days


#18 posted 05-01-2012 03:10 PM

I guess it’s hit or miss on the 4512. Mine’s been great as far as alignment goes. It’s not a perfect saw (which one is?) but mine has been a great performer, especially for the money.

Good luck with your decision!

-- John, BC, Canada

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toolie

2120 posts in 2591 days


#19 posted 05-01-2012 10:57 PM

charlie….just out of curiousity, i contacted stell city about that 35990SS saw linked above and sold by lowes for $615. Steel city confirmed that it indeed had stamped steel wings AND A STAMPED STEEL TABLE TOP. the table top IS NOT cast iron

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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Howie

2656 posts in 2886 days


#20 posted 05-01-2012 11:21 PM

If you can find a used Ridgid TS3650 I think you would be happy with it. I’ve had mine about 5-6 years with no
trouble. I used it for a couple of years on 110 and then switched it to 220. It survived a 1000 mile move and it is still spot on. I’ve been looking at new saws and so far don’t see where I can better myself.

-- Life is good.

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mveach

56 posts in 2345 days


#21 posted 05-01-2012 11:47 PM

Well it looks like you have a lot of good input. I have the PCB270TS it has done a very good job. Though I did not know it had plastic gears when I bought it, but so far no problem. We had a Rockwell RAS over 25 years ago that had plastic gears. The idea was that they would not need lubrication. As far as the fence, I haven’t had any problems. I have put a number of 4’x8’ sheets of 3/4 ply through the saw and it never moved. Now because of the dust shroud, you can’t use a wobble dado and I would have liked the arbor bearings a little further apart. This would make me feel better about hanging a heavy dado set on it. I have built half of my kitchen cabinets with it and a few other projects with no complaints as to operation.

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sandhill

2128 posts in 3887 days


#22 posted 05-02-2012 12:04 AM

I just happened to drop by again and I urge you once again, Hold off till you can get a good saw. Old saying goes “Buy your last tool first”. I don’t know who said it but it is true.

View TraveledSome's profile

TraveledSome

30 posts in 2180 days


#23 posted 05-02-2012 02:32 AM

First I just want to say….what a response!!! I’m amazed at the feedback…

Wow…..lots to digest…....thanks for the input….I have a lot to think about. I did expand the search to 100 miles on craiglist, but while I did find a few I’m a bit more interested in, nothing jumped out at me, there were a couple of very old cabinets that seemed to be without fences and may have been sitting in barns for 30 years…..but again. I know my limitations, and unless someone would like to come fix it up for me for 50 bucks…..I’m not about to enter in a project I know little to nothing about. If it’s as simple as replacing a motor, I could do that…but some of these are in need of massive TLC per my untrained eye…..

Well i have to say the Rigid 4512 is all but dead to me, i could deal with broken plastic gears easier then a blade that loses alignment on raising and lowering, given how common it is it has to be a basic design flaw. did the 4511 have this problem? I mean they look like same design other then table surface…..The C10FL/porter cable I still have some interest in, but would hate to get into it only to have gear break and be in the parts waiting list…as there does not appear to be a good supply. I did check the Steel city but honestly if I am paying that much I want a lil cast iron, that’s an awful lot to be so heavy on stamped steel. So with all that said……

Okay so the best thing I see in new is the GO661 Grizz….and best I see is Amazon at 899, plus another Bennie to get it shipped….so basically double my budget….unless they would trade me 1 for 1 for my 1911 I don’t think that is going to happen. Come to think of it, I’m not trading for that either…sooo unless someone knows where I could get that for 500-700 it’s out of my league. (and then I would have to invent a cover story for wife) Likewise the Delta pro shops look nice but I can’t find any on craigslist either remotely near me…and new is not going to happen.

What I do see are Deltas in the “screaming banshee” model as one person here described…a 34-670 which does look to be partially cast…..what about this saw? I see one fairly close under $200, but I have heard motors burn out? So far this is best craigslist I have seen. I also hate to lose any more hearing from hobbies….shooting does that well enough. There’s a Delta RT40….which would require me to build a new garage to house it….but hey at $500 it may be a steal for someone else here if you live near Knoxville check it out….but I am entering in as a hobby/home improvement and I don’t have second building money……what does a 16” quality blade go for anyway? Eek…

Theres craftsman 113.24181 but again I worry I might not have know how to fix up, and or be able to find parts should it need fixing…..and I would prefer to be able to go at 110 but if I get a good deal I’ll get electrician to install a 220………anyway ….still searching…..I have to say I am leaning towards an older used saw now…….I like old stuff anyway….I’m a fan of streamline deco stuff and always get old file cabinets, chairs vs new etc when I can… just hope I don’t get into a money pit or something beyond my abilities…

Someone mentioned that craftsman of my fathers….(which is my only decent table saw experience.) I do not remember model number and I can’t even find it online…It was a 8 inch table top, with a planer/jointer extension only made for that saw….circa 1968-to 1972 maybe….somewhere thereabouts…. But I used it growing up and father build a lot of things with it, and it still runs well enough he built a stand for it that made it big and tall friendly too which I love…..but I really would prefer a 10” saw. I did see one that looks like it, but it’s caked in rust, and like I say I’d prefer hybrid or cabinet. As cabinets are my goal, and I would like more surface….

I don’t know if this is kosher to ask on here…but I don’t suppose anyone would be willing to go to say that “Search tempest” site or the like and do a 100 mile search from Chattanooga and see if there’s a gem on there I am ignoring…the problem is I see some saws that look like they need love, and they may be a great deal, but I just do not know enough about them, and they hardly ever have a model number for me to look up. If you see something and could privately message me I’d appreciate it……I am in desperate need for good advice….and would value the advice greatly. I am completely serious about this, I have bought a small library on wood working, and I’m tired of reading…I want to BUILD!!!

Just remember I currently have a Table top saw I got on sale at HF for $30 and put on top of a cheap HF generic steel base kit. I don’t need perfection to see a huge improvement! (I prefer my handheld radial to that thing honestly) ….but I really want to be able to use a dado blade, and my old craftsman molding bits (some inherited some I have found here and there)….so I need a larger sturdy saw and arbor…The molding bit set “says” for table or radial saw, and I considered trying it in a hand radial, than looked at my fingers and decided, best not….

Anyway thanks for all of the input you guys are great I never expected to get this much feedback this fast…..I think I like this place!

-- "People are eternally trying to walk out of difficulties, instead of trying to work out of them."

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knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#24 posted 05-02-2012 09:06 AM

The R4511 and R4512 were very different saws with different designs under the hood, and were made by different manufacturers….the R4511 (made by Steel City/Orion) did not have the same alignment issues as the R4512 (made by Dayton). The R4511 essentially has the same guts as the current Cman 22116 and Steel City 35925.

Steel wings are a better option than giving up other more critical features IMHO. I prefer cast iron wings to steel also, but when it comes to giving up features to hit a price point, steel wings are a valid compromise that doesn’t effect the performance of the saw much.

As far as used saws in your area:
This Emerson made Cman 113.298762 has promise. Add a Delta T2 fence for $150, sell the current fence for $25, and you’re into it for! $325….less if they’ll negotiate. Same basic guts as the older Ridgid contractor saws, and actually share many parts. This one is very similar. Both should clean up very nicely.

This BT3000 isn’t for everyone, and may not be the saw you end up with for life, but a lot folks love them….different than many others, and a viable option to get started for $150. There’s a dedicated website called BT3central.com that can answer any question you might have.

The two Delta’s I spotted are both direct drive saws with universal motors.

Saving a bit longer and upping your budget is also an option.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1100 posts in 2249 days


#25 posted 05-02-2012 11:22 AM

toolie, ... the whole top is stamped steel?
Ahhh…. I see i’m confusing it with the CS model. Steel City isn’t showing an SS model that I can find.

CS = cast with stamped wings
C = cast
G = granite

I didn’t realize they even made one all stamped steel. For a few dollars more I’d get the all cast or all granite.

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knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#26 posted 05-02-2012 01:03 PM

Charlie….From Lowes website:
“STEEL CITY 1.5-HP 10 Table Saw Item #: 243427 | Model #: 35990SS

TraveledSome – As far as blades go, assuming you’re looking for value, it’ll be tough to beat the Onsrud deals currently on Ebay….German precision at clearance prices…limited supplies. 50T ATB/R thin kerf combo for $24.15 shipped . If you prefer to buy something local, other good values are the Freud Diablo line, CMT ITK Plus series, and DeWalt Precision Trim series. Here’s more blade info if you’re interested.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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toolie

2120 posts in 2591 days


#27 posted 05-02-2012 01:45 PM

traveledsome… that 113.298762 is a good deal, especially if you also get a t-2 from tools-plus (~$160). but as it is in the CL ad, that saw would serve you for YEARS. i essentially have two of them, one for crosscusts and one for rip cuts. the older they are the better they are as the castings are heavier which increrases viabrtion dampening. i’ve purchased and sold several 3650s and 4511s when HD was closing those out and, after inspecting them in their packaging, i opted to keep my emerson electric bult ridgid and c-man 10” CI TSs. they handle everything i throw at them, provided they have the right blade. if i were starting out on a limied budget, that c-man linked by knottscott would be at the top of my list. that “buy your last saw first” idea is nice only if you don’t get a dog that needs too much restorative work to make it properly functional.

charlie….yea, that surprised me to. when i couldn’t find it on the SC website, i called them. the 35990SS is a completely stamped steel top saw.

and one more thing for traveldsome. SC has a promotion on now for a 10” CI 1.75 hp cabinet style hybrid with cabinet mounted trunions ( http://steelcitytoolworks.com/) . for $999 (i know it’s a littleout of your price range), they include their version of an upgraded industrial t-square fence. sounds like a beefier version of the t-2 and much better than the standard 2 piece front rail fence system that saw usually comes with (the fence was also on the ridgid 4511 and was proabably the it’s weakest feature).

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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TraveledSome

30 posts in 2180 days


#28 posted 05-02-2012 05:55 PM

Question on the 113.298762. If I get that will need to upgrade some things. Why delta t2 for fence is that simply best in price range? Also I don’t see a splitter is there riving knife or splitter kit that will work on Emerson’s? A quick look found that shroud is an issue to doing this? If I have motor problem how much to replace or upgrade? Any other thoughts for making it better and staying under budget? I have contacted them will not decide until I see it an condition. Other then motor what should I look for as far as damage etc? I may go this route but may depend on condition and flexibility on price…..

Thanks again to everyone!

-- "People are eternally trying to walk out of difficulties, instead of trying to work out of them."

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knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#29 posted 05-02-2012 06:46 PM

A traditional splitter/blade guard assembly was standard issue on the old Emerson saws. It’s very possible to find a used one that’ll fit. You can also add an aftermarket splitter like the “Microglide “MJ splitter. These are not the same as a true riving knife, but they all do essentially the same job. IMHO, the splitter is a more critical safety component than the guard, but others may disagree….YMMV.

Check the overall condition. A little rust or patina is normal….severe rust can inidicate neglect. The top surface will clean up surprisingly well. It should run smooth and quietly. Unplug the saw and listen for obvious grinding sounds from the bearings as you spin the blade by hand. You may find that handwheel movements are a little stiff, but that can generally be cleaned and lubed. Alignment can be adjusted, belts and pullies can be replaced if necessary, and even motors shouldn’t be too hard or overly expensive to replace if necessary…these motors have standard NEMA 56 frames, and there are a lot of used motors around that would be suitable. Note that this saw has grated cast iron wings, as opposed to solid…not ideal, but heavier and stiffer than steel, and can be upgraded later on if you want. The stock fences are fairly poor on these….the T2 is an excellent bang for the buck, but certainly not the only viable choice. You should be able to get a saw like this up and running with a fence upgrade for well under budget…if not, it’s not worth going used.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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toolie

2120 posts in 2591 days


#30 posted 05-02-2012 08:45 PM

+1 on above. but when spinning the blade by hand, remove the drive belt first. then remove the blade. now spin the arbor. it should rotate quite freely and, when grabbed by the arbor threads, should experience no lateral movement whatsoever. impeded rotation and lateral movement are indications of less than optimal arbor bearig condition. i happen to like the webbed CI wings as they provide a great deal of flexibility in attaching jigs and fixtures. and there is no way to incorporate a riving knife in that saw. the arbor assembly won’t accomodate it. but a good OEM splitter, or the item menetioned by knotscott used properly, provides adequate protection agianst kickback.

as far as add ons to make it better, a link drive belt, PALS, a dust chute under the saw and an incra miter gauge will all improve the saw’s performance. but, like with all saws. proper setup will greatly improve the performance and accuracy of the saw. but, having 2 saws that are the same as the subject saw, i’m a little biased.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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TraveledSome

30 posts in 2180 days


#31 posted 05-03-2012 11:48 AM

PALS? also…..what blade would you all recommend for best upgrade to performance? Something general, though the main goal is cabiinet making. If it lasts I don’t mind a premium price…....BTW anyone have experience using that saw with dado blade? Anyone have experience with it and the old craftsman molding bit cutter? Those are two of the main reasons I really wanted a full table saw….as I have done decent straight cuts with hand radial and guide….how ever for cabinets being able to use that dado stack, and molding bits sure would make life nice.

-- "People are eternally trying to walk out of difficulties, instead of trying to work out of them."

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TraveledSome

30 posts in 2180 days


#32 posted 05-03-2012 03:58 PM

Things just got more confusing for me found a grizzly G1023RLW for 550 it would be about a 3 hr drive and is missing miter gauge otherwise in good condition for 550 of course it would take more space and doesn’t look too mobile for my lil two car garage what do you guys think? Lol I bet I can guess hmm by the time I got a delta gauge for it as owner suggests would be over budget but have a cabinet saw…...decisions…...

-- "People are eternally trying to walk out of difficulties, instead of trying to work out of them."

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knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#33 posted 05-03-2012 04:41 PM

That’s a considerably more substantial saw than any you’ve been looking at so far. If it’s good condition, I’d be all over that one….you’ll eventually want a decent aftermarket miter gauge anyway. Note that it requires 220v operation. It may not last long so don’t wait.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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toolie

2120 posts in 2591 days


#34 posted 05-03-2012 10:43 PM

+1. no decision necessary. it’s a no brainer. it probably has a splitter instead of a riving knife, but if it’s in good shape, it’s a really good deal. i see CL offerings of jet and powermatics TSs that have notjhing on that saw for almost twice as much. it can be made mobile pretty easily. were it me, i’d aggessively address it. deals like that don’t come around every day.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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enurdat1

100 posts in 2209 days


#35 posted 05-04-2012 01:15 AM

I’ve got a CL Unisaw and love it. There are many great saws out there, my favorites have been the older ones. Use search tempest, it’s a great tool, and see what pops up. I sent you a PM as well about a Ridgid TS3650 I have for sale.

-- It is what it is...

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TraveledSome

30 posts in 2180 days


#36 posted 05-04-2012 02:23 AM

Well the Grizz may be too good to be true, I looked up the G1023RLW and this simply does not look like it..


Does anyone know what model this is???

Honestly if he misrepresented it, even if it’s a decent deal I have my doubts I want to drive a hundred miles with a bunch of cash….. I’m really kinda ticked… I have asked him to confirm model numbers on this and dust collector….and to send me pics of plate…..hoping he was just mistaken…..but that just doesn’t look right to me…. That’s pretty low…... I don’t do buisiness with people no matter how good offer if i find out they been purposely dishonest…

I am really bummed I have been on air all day just thinking about it…...it’s like finding coal again in my christmas stocking…... :( I shoulda known…..

Maybe it’s back to either the C-man 113.298762 closer to home with money left for upgrades…..or it’s consider enurda’s Ridgid TS3650.

-- "People are eternally trying to walk out of difficulties, instead of trying to work out of them."

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knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#37 posted 05-04-2012 09:00 AM

That is a G1023, just not a G1023”RLW”. Still has the same guts as other older style G1023 series saws, but no router wing, no riving knife, and this one is old enough that it doesn’t come with the Shop Fox Classic (Biese clone) fence. Still looks to be 3hp, would still require 220v operation, is still a considerably more substantial saw than a 3650 or Cman but I doubt I’d go $550 plus 100 miles for it….I might go $450 though….can’t hurt to offer less the $550. Circa 1990.


-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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TraveledSome

30 posts in 2180 days


#38 posted 05-04-2012 12:28 PM

Okay that makes me feel better about it. Maybe he just looked it up on current site….? How much would it cost to upgrade fence? Will it take that same Delta T2?

In my head though I’m thinking with age, what if it needs new motor, plus fence plus belts…..plus it could be a Katrina victim…..by the time I add it up could afford a G0715P, maybe not as heavy duty though….just starting to think I might be better off getting lesser saw closer and watching irs auctions for dream saw once I have been at it awhile…...i.e. is what I would get fixing this up and replacing things if needed worth it compared to say the Polar Bear?

-- "People are eternally trying to walk out of difficulties, instead of trying to work out of them."

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knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#39 posted 05-04-2012 01:55 PM

The T2 will fit, but might need a hole or two drilled….worth doing IMHO, but wouldn’t need to be done right away….give the stock fence a shot and see what you think. The stock fence would probably fetch in the $50-$75 range used, so that’ll help offset some costs. If the motor runs well it could last for years…decades even. Belt replacement is advisable, and shouldn’t cost too much.

The guts of these industrial cabinet saws are what really sets them apart from a contractor or hybrid saw….Polar Bear series, Delta, Jet, or otherwise….That’s not to say you’ve got to have a cabinet saw to good work, but they really are much beefier. Which to get needs to be your decision, but info like this can help you make an informed choice. I’d think there’d be signs of water damage inside if this saw took a bath during Katrina.

I’ve showed this pic many times, but compare it to the shot of the G1023 trunnions above…it really illustrates the difference in construction.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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toolie

2120 posts in 2591 days


#40 posted 05-04-2012 02:43 PM

before i read about blade parallelism problems with the 715P, i’d probably have suggested passing on the griz you pictured above. but if the 715P is experiencing random parallelism problems, then that griz is looking better. it does have a t-square fence (which is what a t-2 is) and it is beefier. i just travelled >350 mi RT for a delta DC that i got for $150 (comparble retail value of the DC, canister filter and included remote was ~$700). if those pics are the actual saw, and it’s mechanically sound, it will clean up nicely, especially the CI top. and it can be made mobiile quite easily. i think it’s a good deal anywhere between $450 and $550.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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cabmaker

1719 posts in 2772 days


#41 posted 05-04-2012 08:41 PM

Hey traveled some, let me get this sraight. You posted that you found a rt-40 for 500 bucks, and did not buy it ? And your still pondering the toy saw market . Help me understand.

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TraveledSome

30 posts in 2180 days


#42 posted 05-05-2012 04:55 AM

True two car garage in the 1970’s build size…i.e. no room….double the cost for a 16” blade almost …...my current Table saw is a HF junker I got on sale for $30 I’m already going from a yugo to a Mercedez I don’t need a Rolls….yet. Then there’s the part where I didn’t put the extra lil “2” in that post….it’s $2500 :D

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/2980484365.html

Wish me luck pick up the Grizz tomorrow….....

Also Delta or Griz Mobile base? And is Forest Woodworker II still consensus for all purpose starter blade?
Where is best place to get new belts? Which belts should I get?

-- "People are eternally trying to walk out of difficulties, instead of trying to work out of them."

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knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#43 posted 05-05-2012 11:53 AM

”...And is Forest Woodworker II still consensus for all purpose starter blade?”

The WWII is a great all purpose blade, but I don’t necessarily feel it’s the best blade you can get for the money…it’s generally the best way to spend the most for that level of performance, but sometimes sale prices help. A lot depends on what you’ll be doing. If a general purpose/combination type blade is the direction you want to head, I’d take a serious look into the Infinity Super General 010-044 ...it’s the cleanest cutting of all the general purpose blades I’ve used to date. The Freud Fusion P410, Tenryu Gold Medal GM25540, and Ridge Carbide TS2000 are also worthy contenders at this elite level.

A couple of years ago Forrest introduced a 48T version of the WWII with more teeth and a higher bevel angle, which I believe was in response to performance of the new Infinity Super General 010-044 and Freud Fusion P410, which were both outperforming the standard 40T WWII in a couple of notable categories. The SG and Fusion both offer a dual side grind for a more highly polished edge, and a Hi-ATB grind with a 30° top bevel which gives very low tearout in ply and fine crosscuts. All 3 of these blades lean toward cleaner rips, better sheetgood performance, cleaner fine crosscuts, and are a bit less efficient at thicker ripping….which is best done wtih a 24T ripper anyway.

If you do a lot of thicker ripping but want to retain a cleaner edge than most 24T blades can provide, the 30T version of the WWII is an excellent choice. It’ll rip nearly as efficiently as a 24T rip blade, but clearly gives a better cut, and can also be used for many crosscuts applications with acceptable results. It falls a little short in the finer cuts where the 3 blades mentioned above are really strong. This blade is actually very well mated to a good 60T ATB blade that can also be used for a lot of general purpose type work without changing out the blade, or it can be nicely matched with a good 80T Hi-ATB ply/fine crosscut blade like the CMT 210.080.10, Infinity 010-080 Ultrasmooth, Freud LU80, or Forrest Duraline, but those are best suited only for the fine cuts.

On the bargain end, the Delta 35-7657 (formerly the DeWalt DW7657) 40T ATB blade is surprisingly good at about one third the cost of the premium general purpose blades. Full kerf, C4 carbide, made in the USA, gives glue ready edges, < $30 shipped. A blade like this does a very nice job on many applications, and leaves a little money in the budget for more suitable specialty blades as needed.

My blog on picking saw blades

Good luck and let us know how you make out with the saw.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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TraveledSome

30 posts in 2180 days


#44 posted 05-06-2012 12:39 AM

Well I got saw and dust collector (which is a 2hp with out switch)...he had disconnected and hooked to breaker apparently switch was left at previous owned building….. on dust collector switch on saw is fine.

Saw 450…..200 on dust collector grand total of 650…..and need to get belts and a blade….and of course get garage wired for 220…. What do ya think? I’m pretty happy….

Think i am glad I didn’t pay 5-600 for the PC or Rigid now…..

Hmmm have to look up still unsure exact model

year is 1989


A lil cleaning…

anything I should do for gears…a lil oxidation move okay though…


-- "People are eternally trying to walk out of difficulties, instead of trying to work out of them."

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knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#45 posted 05-06-2012 02:28 AM

Nice haul for $650. Clean the dust out of that saw, get your belts, and blade and you’ll have trees quaking in their boots! Congrats!

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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enurdat1

100 posts in 2209 days


#46 posted 05-06-2012 03:52 AM

Great deal, Enjoy

-- It is what it is...

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toolie

2120 posts in 2591 days


#47 posted 05-06-2012 12:40 PM

very good deal. it’s a right tilt, so you’ll need to be a bit more careful when bevel ripping so be extra sure about the fence being parallel, or toed out .001-.002”, relative to the blade. cleanout the tilt and bevel mechanisms of all saw dust (brush and blow out with compressed air) and spray liberally with a dry lube. let it dry and, with good dust collection, they should function properly for years. now, when you want to get that DC to activate automatically when you activate the saw, these are what you need:

http://www.ivacswitch.com/index.action

bet of luck with your new toy. BTW, did it come with a splitter? if not, that’s a really necessary safety device to prevent kickback when using dimensional limber.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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TraveledSome

30 posts in 2180 days


#48 posted 05-11-2012 01:44 AM

Well no sooner then I got my saw, than life came at me 200 MPH at work etc so I haven’t had a chance to follow up. I wanted to give a testimonial if you will. Before this thread I had read on here but never posted on Lumberjocks. I was on the verge of pulling the trigger on either the PCB270TS/C10FL or the Ridgid 4512 at around 500+ for saws that I knew had issues but felt were my only financial options, as right now 500 bucks on anything not directly related to paying off debt or baby is just hard to do. I posted on one forum (which will go unnamed) asking questions along these lines, and was curtly told to read their faq, as there were other posts on those saws, and as a new person I should have read them….(I curtly left and will not return there). I came in here received all sorts of welcomes…and I have a feeling everyone gets those, but it’s still nice. But within 24 hours I had a wealth of information and a lot to consider. It was like having my own panel of woodworkers advising me….

After the initial advice was about to go with the C-man 113.298762 which I doubt I would have regretted. It looks almost brand new, if your near Chattanooga the guy is very nice, and I think 200.00 for it in near mint condition is pretty good deal……I would have gotten good advice if it stopped there…but it didn’t, thanks to YOUR advice…(specifically “Hairy” Thank you! ) anyway, I started using Search Tempest and looking on Craigs list by mileage…… and found my Grizz. Even then I almost jinxed it myself, when it didn’t look like the photos on web sight I started to panic wondering if I was being had. And again, you guys calmly made me aware it was a G1023 just older, and still a great deal……Also the guy selling turned out to be super nice, and I feel horrible for doubting him now.

So…..where I am now….. After a single thread at Lumberjocks I went from

This:

……..my old on sale for $30 saw at HF.

I feel safer and more accurate using my radial and a clamped edge to be honest….

To This:

finding my second baby…..the G1023…for $450

And a 2hp Vac System to boot!! for $200

Thank you Lumber Jocks! Thank you every one!!!!!!

I have a bunch of questions about my saw still, but as we have gotten away from the original question…I’m going to make another topic for that….again. No joke thank you everyone, I am as impressed with the community here as I have been on any forum on ANY topic…..if only IT forums were a quarter as friendly and knowledgeable….!

-- "People are eternally trying to walk out of difficulties, instead of trying to work out of them."

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cabmaker

1719 posts in 2772 days


#49 posted 05-11-2012 01:53 AM

You are correct sir, there is a lot of info. to be had here for you. Very gracious comments you made in your post and enjoy the saw. If your doing just occasional work youll never need another saw. Enjoy the journey !

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knotscott

7980 posts in 3338 days


#50 posted 05-11-2012 02:14 AM

Great story, great deal, great upgrade! Way to persevere!

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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