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View Joe Lyddon's profile

Newt Gingrich at 2012 NRA Celebration of American Values Leadership Forum

by Joe Lyddon
posted 04-14-2012 07:07 PM


23 replies so far

View DonB's profile

DonB

277 posts in 1382 days


#1 posted 04-14-2012 07:34 PM

I’m not a member of the NRA but I do believe in their organization and what it seems to stand for.

-- DonB

View BobM001's profile

BobM001

388 posts in 1020 days


#2 posted 04-15-2012 02:25 AM

But with that “Right to keep and bear arms” comes the responsibilty to obey the law. In many “developing” countries they “live by the feud”. Old tribal revenge motivations from past actions that would result in a blood bath. Rwanda comes to mind with the Hutu and Tutsi . The hatred between Sunni and Shiite in the Arab world. I think Newt’s idea of basic human rights for all the world is on point. But a “2nd Amendment” for the world just doesn’t seem feasible. Here is where the Judeo-Christian principal of “Thou Shalt Not Kill” was instilled in our society. But even here the lawless ABUSE the right. Case in point the gang warfare in the USA. Many feel that disarming our populace will make us “safer”. Evidence has proven to the contrary in countries where it has happened. Crimes involving a firearm must bear stiff punishment WITHOUT some judge being able to plea bargain it to a lesser charge. Mandatory sentences that aren’t subject to “good behavior” reductions of time served. The laws are already on the books, but to many times they aren’t enforced in the courts. Adding more serves no one. You also cannot legislate the actions of a deranged person. But if people were allowed to protect themselves the “toll” from the deranged might be less.
Suzanna Hupp testimony> The rest is just “emphasis”!

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

7799 posts in 2741 days


#3 posted 04-15-2012 03:40 AM

Right to keep and bear arms” comes the responsibilty to obey the law.

OF COURSE!

Other countries have to enforce their own laws… Not our problem…

We have to enforce our laws by getting the people using them illegally…
... removing ALL guns from everyone ONLY takes guns away from law abiding people… The criminals will still have them… making it easier for them to do whatever they want… DUH…

We have the Right to protect ourselves, within the law… and we should keep it that way.

YES?

I thought Texas was very lenient with gun laws… being able to carry, etc.

Laws have to be reasonable… Laws should also include Safety licenses… just like we have to Drive… License to carry guns & know how to safely use them.

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View muleskinner's profile

muleskinner

679 posts in 1126 days


#4 posted 04-15-2012 03:49 PM

You think I should be required to have a license to own a gun? Couldn’t that be construed as an infringement? What next – a Certification of Competency to speak freely?

-- Visualize whirled peas

View BobM001's profile

BobM001

388 posts in 1020 days


#5 posted 04-15-2012 05:14 PM

I feel that especially with hand guns a mandatory course that presents the laws in detail when the use of “Deadly Force” is authorized based on the laws of a particular state. NOT A LICENSE, an “education”. Perhaps even a course in proficiency. If you can’t hit anything with it, why buy it? Some states have a “Castle Law”, some don’t. The right to protect oneself is “endowed by the Creator”. That’s the only “license” required. My state has probably the MOST intensive investigation process to obtain a CCP/handgun permit. It takes MONTHS for approval/disapproval to happen. Your background had better be squeeky clean or you don’t get one. Even then you are subject to a “review” every five years. Some feel that is “to intrusive”. Perhaps. But it weeds out elements that have neither the character nor the “responsibility factor” to possess a handgun. Does it stop crime with a handgun? Of course not. But it does set a STIFF penalty if you are caught with an illegal handgun. HARD TIME! If used in a crime, HARDER TIME!

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

7799 posts in 2741 days


#6 posted 04-15-2012 06:02 PM

OK, maybe a license was the wrong way… The objective being that people should positively KNOW how to Safely handle and USE their guns and NOT be the Old Westerner grabbing for it when someone looks at them crosseyed.

Everyone with a gun should be educated on its use, laws, etc.

Maybe they should be Certified…??

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1145 posts in 1452 days


#7 posted 04-15-2012 06:30 PM

It’s really amazing how many NRA “gun nuts” can justify their excuses based on the 2nd Amendent. Yes, I own guns, so don’t give me that argument I am some kind of anti-gun fanatic. I also believe in “the right to bear arms”, but what the hell do you want with an AK47, AR15/M16, Thompson, etc, etc, etc. The most stupidist answer I’ve heard to date is, “So’s I can hunt”. What a bunch of crap! If you can’t bring down your food with one shot, it just goes to prove that you are not a hunter, just an animal muderer. You get special joy in slaughtering what is ever in the line of fire, be it human, animal, or otherwise.
If you fanatics are really, really, really intelligent (IQ above 31), and look at the time the Constitution was framed, you will see we were in the middile of war with King George. And, those poor peones under the guise of the royal court were NOT ALLOWED to bear arms, to defend themselves, or hunt in the “King’s forrest” for food, under penalty of death. So, it was not just an outcry to the “court” to allow the citizens of the New World to bear arms, but to tell King George to go piss up a rope, because we are own people, not his! There is another stupid quote by the NRA – “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. That’s the stupidist logic I’ve ever heard in my life. Of course, with an IQ of -31, what could anyone expect?

-- *Arachnoleptic Fit*: The frantic dance performed just after you've accidently walked through a spider web.

View Gerald Thompson's profile

Gerald Thompson

393 posts in 924 days


#8 posted 04-15-2012 06:47 PM

Jsut because the Constution was written a long time ago does not negate it as law. You have to build straw dogs by name calling and demeaning people by calling them “gun nuts”.
Yes it is guns in the hands of people that kill people and it is logic. You stray away from logic and go in to a rant rather than a discussion. This furthers my firm belief in the Left’s continued assault on the Constitution and just not the Second Amendment.

-- Jerry

View muleskinner's profile

muleskinner

679 posts in 1126 days


#9 posted 04-15-2012 07:28 PM

I hope I’m not one of the gun nuts you were referring to, Jim. I asked the question just because I thought the advocacy of any requirements was out of character for the NRA crowd. The second amendment is pretty far down on my list of amendments I’m concerned about. The protection of the first and the forth thru the eighth being more of a priority in my opinion. If those rights are to be protected they are going to be protected by an educated, rational, involved and enlightened electorate not by a hoard of guns in your home. No matter how many you have, the government is going to have you out-gunned.

I’ve acquired by happenstance and inheritance more guns than I need. Most of them stuck in a closet collecting dust. I’ve had a few gun fetish friends lecture me on the importance joining the NRA for it’s efforts to keep arms in the hands of the citizens. I always explain to them that if the government decided to confiscate guns, they’d be smart to start with the NRA membership list. So I’d prefer not to be on it.

Just to be clear, Jim, I agree with you.

-- Visualize whirled peas

View RockyTopScott's profile

RockyTopScott

1141 posts in 2168 days


#10 posted 04-15-2012 07:56 PM

I am one of those that clings to my gun and GOD, if you come to take either, I pray my aim is straight.

-- “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.” ― Thomas Sowell

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1145 posts in 1452 days


#11 posted 04-16-2012 02:43 AM

And to be clear muleskinner, I totally agree with you. My rant was to see if there were any kind of fanatics out there who would come up with some kind of stupid excuse to be an NRA nut. No matter what “they” say, ain’t nobody gonna “pry your weapon from your dead cold hands”, unless it’s my formentioned murder machines. What I can’t understand is, like I said, why does anybody NEED an automatic killing machiine? Lest we forget, that’s why those things were invented. Also, GOD did not have anything to do with this invention, so what’s the logic?

If straw dogs they are, then it is. I am also a “gun nut”, but not to the extremes as most profess to be.

-- *Arachnoleptic Fit*: The frantic dance performed just after you've accidently walked through a spider web.

View BobM001's profile

BobM001

388 posts in 1020 days


#12 posted 04-16-2012 05:40 AM

“Certification” is just another term for “licensing”. With licensing comes “registration”. The first step in CONFISCATION. As for the “why” to own a SEMIautomatic rifle. Why not? If a LAW ABIDING citizen chooses to possess one they are perfectly within their right to do so. There is with the exception a few states coupled with a FEDERAL PERMIT no “full auto” firearms permitted. People that live in those states and choose to possess one do so just for the “enjoyment” of shooting it. I guess it could be compared to if the speed limit is 65 mph, why own a RUF Porche 935 that will do 215mph?

One of the things on my “bucket list” is to attend the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot held annually in October. It’s gotta be a REAL HOOT!
Knob Creek>

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

7799 posts in 2741 days


#13 posted 04-16-2012 05:55 AM

BobM,

That looked like FUN to do!

I wish the person running the camera would SLOW DOWN on the panning and zooming… NOT GOOD as is.

No License… No Certification (having a certificate that you have taken & passed an educational class on how use & care for a gun).

OK, what measures would you take to be sure the Gun operators knew how to operate and care for their guns?

If they are not educated, YOUR life may be in danger even at a shooting gallery!!
(let alone, the public!)

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View BobM001's profile

BobM001

388 posts in 1020 days


#14 posted 04-16-2012 02:35 PM

Hi Joe,
Firearms safety was instilled into my psyche by my 94 year old Dad when I was old enough to handle a firearm. In New York you have to take a Hunter’s Safety Course in order to obtain a license. Way back when it was 6 hrs. Now it’s a 3 day, 18 hour course. I belong to the oldest gun club in my area. Established in 1924. Membership there requires an 8 hr safety orientation as to RANGE SAFETY. They have a 200 yd “No Blue Sky” rifle range. That means it is constructed so that no rounds can leave the property in the event of a mishandled firearm. A Range Safety Officer is present at all times to control the firing line. If you violate the rules, you are asked to pack up and leave….PERIOD. You get “3 strikes”/year. If you’re stupid enough not to comply and “strike out”. Your membership is TERMINATED in purpetuity. We don’t want any “loose cannons”.
Same goes for the indoor/outdoor pistol ranges, indoor/outdoor archery ranges, and 3-D archery range. SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY! No person can go down range to check retrieve a target until ALL firearms are completely unloaded, actions open. At that point a flashing red light/klaxon is turned on. Then “CLEAR” is announced. ALL shooters have to step back behind a yellow line 5 feet from the firing positions until the last shooter comes back behind the safety line from checking paper, At that point the RSO turns off the alarm and gives the “Range Hot” command.

If a shooter remembers the some “basic” rules for safety accidents rarely happen.
1. Treat EVERY firearm as if it were loaded.
2. ALWAYS keep the muzzle pointed in a SAFE direction.
3. ALWAYS be sure of your target and what is behind it.
4. Be sure that your firearm is in good working order and that it is loaded with the proper ammunition. An obstructed barrel can lead to a catastrophic failure resulting in serious injury or even death.
5. ALCOHOL AND GUNPOWDER DON’T MIX.

The gun club has a bar. Their policy is “WHEN YOU HAVE HAD YOUR FIRST DRINK, YOU HAVE FIRED YOUR LAST SHOT!”
If you show up to shoot and you have been determined to have been drinking prior to your arrival, you’re asked to leave. ZERO TOLERANCE.

As for firearms cleaning, disassembly, and general care there are bunches of YouTube videos out there that are excellent. But here is where a reputable gun shop comes into play. If the sales people are knowledgable they can answer questions regarding these questions. That’s why Wal-Mart is no place to buy a gun unless you already have the skills. Some guns should only be disassembled by a gunsmith. A Browning A-5 shotgun comes to mind. Oh you can take the barrel off to clean it and clean out the receiver. But if you try to disassemble the receiver portion, you better have the tools and the skills. It’s just like today’s cars. I open the hood and just shake my head. Oil changes, tire rotation, and the air filter are about you can do. Maybe replace a bulb.

If people desire to own a handgun for “self defense”, they need to learn how to “put rounds on target”. Many gun clubs have what is known as “Practical Shooting” courses. There is even an organized league called IPSC.
Here your skills will be “honed” to the point where they become “instinctive”. Even to the “friend/foe” aspect.

The possession, care, use of a firearm requires extreme responsibility. The right is given, but the citizen has to take the steps in the right direction.

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

7799 posts in 2741 days


#15 posted 04-16-2012 04:57 PM

Bob,

That’s all well and good… That’s the way you got educated…

Now, let’s talk about the General Public…

The objective is to be sure that every gun owner is likewise educated… then, we all would be safer.

How would you say it gets done?

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View BobM001's profile

BobM001

388 posts in 1020 days


#16 posted 04-16-2012 07:37 PM

Hi Joe,
It “get’s done” by those that wish to own a firearm to just ASK the question. “Where can I get firearms safety training?” I’m sure that any firearms retailer has an abundance of places where “newbies” can get instruction. Find a local gun club and just stop in for a chat with the “rank and file” gun owners there. I’m just about 100% positive that they would be more than happy to steer you in the direction needed. There may even be a member that is a CERTIFIED NRA FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR. This would be the first/best place to get the proper training. If they have a range you will be schooled in proper shooting disciplines. Gun owners are a funny lot. Then tend to gravitate toward those who “seek the knowledge”. Bring someone with little or no experience “into the fold”. All with kindness and encouragement.

I have found that there is ALWAYS someone at one of these facilities with bits of knowledge that even yours truly didn’t know. That goes for the shotgun sports like trap, skeet, or sporting clays. The later being “Golf with a shotgun.” A MOST humbling experience. But FUN! I got my 23 yr old daughter into shooting skeet. Much to my chagrin she was a “natural”. Kicked my ass on the score sheet with regularity. I started her off with air rifle/pistol. With a RWS 6G match pistol her shots could be covered with a dime at 11 meters. Put me to shame there too.

My first trip to the National High Power Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio was a humbling experience. But there were shooters there that would answer just about any question I had. By the end of the week I had met new friends, gained more knowledge that I ever could have garnered from reading books. Some of the “authors” were participants. I’ll never forget a crusty old retired Marine Gunny that told me to “Just relax and BREATHE” when trying to get steady before taking a shot. “You have to get your heart rate down to that if you were sitting in an easy chair with your feet up” he said. You know what? It WORKED. I needed to “Zone out”.

My feelings are as of late to START THEM YOUNG. Just a .22 shooting cans at a safe location. Clay birds work too. That way there is an instant result for marksmanship. Once they get more proficient, glue Neccos onto a piece of poster board. Then finally, aspirin dyed red with food coloring. Like in the Mel Gibson movie “The Patriot”....”Aim small, miss small.” Don’t forget the girls too. They might just show the boys up. But during all this teach SAFETY. If in doubt how, go to the NRA website and look for the “Eddie the Eagle” program for kids. It’s SUPERB!

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1612 days


#17 posted 04-16-2012 08:49 PM

My Florida CCW permit states “Concealed Weapon or Firearm License”
When you attend the class they remind you that this license only gives you the right to carry a “concealed weapon”(could be a knife,gun, bazooka, 105 whatever) it does NOT give you the right to use it. I agree there are lots of people out there that probably need a lot of gun safety classes but I don’t think any criminals attend these.
Another thing is some of the people that do have these license do not further their training and actually study the law. Again the criminal probably doesn’t either.
Contrary to what the national media is portraying the” Florida Stand your ground law” is NOT a license to kill(that’s media BS) you are bluntly told in the class that if you screw up ,YOU are going to jail. You can go to jail by just waving your piece around in the wrong place.
The Florida “Castle Law” is not a license to shoot someone on your property. A good example is the old crap about “shoot them outside and drag them inside” If you shoot someone and move the body YOU are guilty of a felony.
Bottom line, like someone said once you pull the trigger you can’t call it back. Therefore you better be right.A better education about gun safety and the law is the answer.
That all being said, I carry when I think I need to carry(which is not all the time) I will not give up my guns just because someone else thinks I should. That’s my decision.

-- Life is good.

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1145 posts in 1452 days


#18 posted 04-17-2012 01:18 AM

Excuses are like *, everybody has one.

-- *Arachnoleptic Fit*: The frantic dance performed just after you've accidently walked through a spider web.

View BobM001's profile

BobM001

388 posts in 1020 days


#19 posted 04-17-2012 01:29 AM

“Castle Law” is only in effect if the intruder is INSIDE your propery. Once they break the plane of an exit you cannot fire on them. That’s why they have to be KIA’d INSIDE. No “warning shots”. Aim center body mass and keep firing until empty. Then reload and standby. In combat shooting you’re taught a double tap to the chest. If they don’t “crumple” they could be wearing body armor. At that point you have two possible targets. The head or the pelvic arch. All this in a matter of seconds. If you’re good enough, “MOZAMBIOUE”! Serious pistol shooters will know what I mean. Sounds cold doesn’t it? But who would you rather be “cold”? The intruder, or YOU?

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1612 days


#20 posted 04-17-2012 02:16 AM

rosebud, I agree that the general public has no need for assault type weapons. They are not practical for anything except what they were developed for.
When I was in Vietnam I had an M-60 Machine Gun and a M-14 A2(capable of full auto) neither would be something I would want in civilian life. And for what it’s worth ($.00) I don’t miss them.

-- Life is good.

View BobM001's profile

BobM001

388 posts in 1020 days


#21 posted 04-17-2012 04:04 AM

Howie,
I shoot a Springfield Armory M1A National Match in competition. The semi auto version of the M-14. I also shoot a prized M1 Garand National Match. Your experiences in ‘Nam may have convinced you that you never wanted to have anything to do with a battle rifle again. I can understand that if it’s the case. I’m a vet of that era too. But I chose 6, 5”/38 to do my shooting. So I have no reason to feel that these weapons are “evil”. I feel that they are a part of history. Just as a Civil War re enactor would feel about his Springfield cap and ball rifle. The word “assault” according to Webster’s is a noun or a transitive verb. Not an adjective. So the term “assault rifle” is a misnomer. If you choose not to own a “battle rifle” that’s your perogative. They are VERY practical for hunting feral hogs, especially out of a helo. Texas is over run with them. They eats REAL GOOD too.

Excuse me Jim, but did you refer to someone as an a$$ hole because they have an opinion differing from your own? I see. Take away someone else’s rights as long as you don’t touch mine. Is that your school of thought? Hmmmm? Why did you wear that uniform? Remember the words of that oath? Was there a “time limit” on it?

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1145 posts in 1452 days


#22 posted 04-18-2012 01:11 AM

Howie: I was also in VN, ‘68-’72, in the Air Force, and the M-16 was my best friend. And, I feel the same way you do – don’t have a need to revisit what happened with something that does not belong in the civilian world.

BobM001: My remark about what everyone has could be what you described – or – big ears, five toes, etc. Why does it always comes down to someones rights that someone else seems to believe is being taken away from them? There is all kinds of “GOD given rights” that are being argued, and thrown about. Nobody, and I mean NOBOBY is trying to steal them. Why is that fanatics, i.e., Tea Party right wing wing nuts are the first to scream about rights? My opinions are mine, not yours, as evident you have several. I been shot at in Lybia, Tunisia, South Africa, Philippines, and of course VietNam, withing hours of being kidnapped in Argentina. I was really tired of being a target in all parts of the world. When I seperated, my “time limit” ran out, and the oath no longer had any meaning, because in those areas I was defending myself, not the Constitution. There is a difference.

-- *Arachnoleptic Fit*: The frantic dance performed just after you've accidently walked through a spider web.

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1612 days


#23 posted 04-18-2012 02:13 PM

Bob, I never said these type of weapons were “evil” I merely stated they have no place in civilian life that I
can see. I’ve shot M1’s(probably the best military rifle ever) grease guns,thompsons,BAR’s,M-16’s ,M2’s,Browning 30’s and AK-47’s not one of them I can see useful in civilian life. I also have owned or have 30-30,30-06,243,270,222 rem mag, a gazillion different 22’s,shotguns and pistols. It’s the style of the weapon not the caliber that I see as unnessecery.
I find it amusing that almost every reporter on TV (especially the women) report “the shooter” was using an AK-47, when most of the time it was something entirely different. But then the media is losing it’s credibilty more and more every day.
Speaking of hogs, I have them out my front window. This one is species challenged he thinks he’s a cow.

-- Life is good.

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