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Dust Collector questions, looking to buy my first collector

by Kenny
posted 02-09-2012 09:18 PM


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55 replies

55 replies so far

View crank49's profile

crank49

4032 posts in 3026 days


#1 posted 02-09-2012 09:49 PM

Optimimum connected load that can be open and flowing at one time is one 4” duct and one 2 1/2”. The 2 1/2” is hard to find so a 2” or a 3” will work . I run a 4” to my table saw and a 2” to my band saw for instance. Or, I’ll switch the 4” to the jointer and the 2” to the disk sander. I use a shop vac for the planer. My planer tends to plug up a small line unless it’s got high vacuum pressure like you get with a true vacuum. I don’t have any issues with the HF collector at all.

Some folks on here will warn you that you have to remove the 5 micron rated bag and replace it with a cartridge that can collect sub-micron particles. I chose a different tact. I leave the collector to collect sawdust and chips, and an air filter to catch the .3 micron fine stuff. Reason is simple; the collector sounds like a screaming banchee so I only run it when I’m running a power tool making dust. The air filter makes almost no sound so it runs all the time. To each his (or her) own.

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Loren

10476 posts in 3703 days


#2 posted 02-09-2012 10:18 PM

As long as you run one machine at a time, that collector will
work better than you probably imagine. I have a 1.5HP
cyclone and I tried to run the duct with minimal bends
but there are still plenty. The thing still sucks like crazy even
at the end of a 25 ft run of duct with three 90 degree elbows
and one 45… as long as the other blast gates are shut.

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knotscott

8080 posts in 3431 days


#3 posted 02-09-2012 10:22 PM

The biggest issue I’ve read about is that the switch is prone to failure, but easily replaced/fixed. The CFM is heavily overstated, with most measuresments I’ve read about being half the stated CFM or less, but owner comments seem to indicate that it’s enough to do the job, especially if you replace the bags with something like the Wynne cartridge filter that has more airflow than the stock bags. It does have a smaller impeller (10-3/4”) than comparably rated units, but it’s about half the cost of other 2hp DC’s with 12 and 13” impellers, and appears to more than half as good!

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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Bill White

4982 posts in 4015 days


#4 posted 02-09-2012 10:29 PM

I’ve got one. Replaced the bags with those from Highland.. There are those who rebuild with pleated and exotic stuff filters. Mine with double good bags is all I need because of my shop config. I would buy it again.
Just my thoughts.
I did have a switch prob, got a replacement, but I repaired the original with little effort. Now I have a spare switch.
This tool just keeps gettin’ good recs. I’m not opposed at all. It isn’t a “monster shop” DC, but so what….
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#5 posted 02-09-2012 10:30 PM

Thanks for the tips, much appreciated!
I don’t ever run two tools at the same time, ever. I get hurt plenty often just using one! So in all likelihood I’ll only have one blast gate open at a time. and just as a side note, I plan to make my own blast gates from a plan shown in Fine Woodworking (I think that’s where I got it?)

I understand about the fine dust too. I run 2 “box-fan air-filters” with 1 micron filters and have a third air-filter in the works using a 580cfm centrifugal blower in a plywood enclosure. Between the three, I think I have fines covered pretty well.

I may at some point in the future purchase one of those custom over-sized filter bags, but that’s a ways off and not even a remote concern right now. I need to just get a dust collector at this point, customizing will come later.

As one other question, how well do the trash can separators work with a collector? I have a “Thien Cyclone” built on a 5-gallon bucket for my small shop-vac, and it works well. But I wonder how well it would work on a larger scale with the lower static lift of a true collector rather than a shop-vac?

If I was to use one, it would be a self-made unit again using a steel trash can and plywood lid, as I don’t have the funds for a purchased unit. As well, I have not heard much good about the majority of purchased units anyway, with the exception of the “Dust Deputy”.

Thanks again!

-- Kenny

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brtech

1034 posts in 2978 days


#6 posted 02-09-2012 10:33 PM

No negatives if you upgrade the filter. An HF Gem for sure.

You can run 25 or 30’ of 4” PVC okay with that unit. Just use 45s and a straight pipe or a wide sweep elbow, and use Wyes and not Ts. Some LJs have even longer runs, but I gotta wonder if they are getting the fines. One idea is to hard pipe to your router table, and use a 10’ flex hose to everything else, using the Wye on the inlet of the HF DC (add blast gates of course).

It works to adapt down to 2.5”. Just remember that a shop vac and a dust collector are completely different beasts. I have a 2.5” inlet on my lunch box planer, and my HF DC does a great job with an adapter – much better than my shop vac.

If you are going to 25’+ of hard pipe, you really want to minimize flex. Like zero would be good! A foot or two isn’t going to make a great deal of difference if it’s not a tight bend. But 25’ of PVC + 10’ of cheap flex isn’t gonna work too well.

Upgrade the filter – get a Wynn 35A. Really worth while. Increases CFM, substantially better filtering. If you don’t do that, wear a respirator.

I am personally of the opinion that an air cleaner is not a substitute for a good filter on the DC, because if the fines are in the air where the air cleaner is getting them, they are also getting in your lungs. You need to get the fines out of the tool and into filtration before they can get into your lungs. No tool collector is perfect, and some dust will always escape. An air cleaner is for that dust. YMMV.

Also look at the Thien baffle, either built into a trash can separator before the HF DC or built into the DC ring. It’s a great mod that improves separation, leading to less dust in your filter and more efficient DC.

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#7 posted 02-09-2012 10:36 PM

Wow, there is a big difference in impeller size! But, like I said, I’m poor and it’s what I can afford. And I’m sure it’s better than my little shop vac or either of my “5-gallon bucket” shop vacs!

On a side note, those little 5-gallon bucket shop-vacs (got mine at Lowes) are a pretty good deal for the money! I have 2 that are dedicated to smaller machines (Ridged OSS and Delta 8-1/2” miter saw), and they do pretty good. Really good when you consider the $20 price tag.

-- Kenny

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#8 posted 02-09-2012 10:41 PM

I should also note that this is going under the stairwell into the basement, which is enclosed with a door. I plan to add filtered vents to the door and on the sides, which should take care of any fines that the filter misses. Four 20”x20” furnace filters should prove adequate for ventilation, if not, I’ll add a box fan or two for better air evacuation.

I’m really just hoping to muffle the noise a touch.

-- Kenny

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fussy

980 posts in 3106 days


#9 posted 02-10-2012 06:23 AM

Kenny,

The HF is a bargain. I have had one for two years and have had no complaints except for switch failure. I just wired in a 20 amp light switch for $1.25 and was back up. Brtech is correct about the Wynn 35A. I did that and lost the bags. It is allways better to catch dust at the source and the Wynn REALLY improves performance ! Haven’t regretted it yet. About the Thein separator, do th in-the-ring mod instead of the separator in the can route. Smaller footprint and less of a hit cfm-wise. It’s a simple mod (even I could do it) and really keeps stuff out of the filter. I don’t use my dc to clean up/ I use my shop vac, but emptying it and cleaning the filter got old so I built a Thein separator for it, stacked the vac on top on a roll-around cart, and the whole thing takes less floor space than the vac alone (I took the wheels off the vac-useless anyway). I use a HEPA filter (not hepa TYPE) on the vac and do all my cleaning with it keeping odd bits of hard stuff out of the dc impeller. A side benefit of the Thein on the shop vac is I have cleaned the vac filter only three times in 2 years and use a 35 gallon barrel to catch the dust. Do what you want as to piping, but as everything is pretty much within a 10’ radius, it seems silly to me to add the cost, complexity, and static pressure loss that plumbing adds. I go tool to tool and have no problems.

Steve

-- Steve in KY. 44 years so far with my lovely bride. Think I'll keep her.

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#10 posted 02-10-2012 10:09 AM

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the help immensely!

If someone could please point me in the direction of some pictures or instruction on how to do an “in the ring” Thien Baffle, I would be very appreciative!

I did look on the Thien forum a bit, but didn’t find what I wanted. I going to go back and look some more, and also join the forum as well. Looks to be another place with some great info!

After looking around a bit and researching possible mods to the HF collector, I see a number of things that should be quite simple and provide for a real improvement in performance! One major improvement being the 12” impeller from the Grizzly collector. Though that may come later.

But some low-buck mods that look like they should help some are relocating the motor so it blows directly into the ring, thus eliminating the flex hose from blower to the ring and the previously mentioned “in the ring” baffle.

And since I also happen to be pretty good with a sewing machine (yeah, yeah, laugh all you want) and I have an old heavy duty singer, I might look into finding some material they use to make the filter bags and “extending” mine a bit, or simply making a larger bag, if the material is affordable.

-- Kenny

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crank49

4032 posts in 3026 days


#11 posted 02-10-2012 04:15 PM

Thein baffle works fine and has Two big advantages.

1. Large chunks and screws and such will drop in the can before they go through the fan and damage the impellor.

2. The can is much easier to empty than the bag on the collector.

The “in the ring” Thein looses both of these advantages, so I don’t see why.

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joshtank

224 posts in 3028 days


#12 posted 02-10-2012 04:20 PM

far as the noise goes, my collector is in a little ‘shop addition’ under the soffit of my garage.

this is from a year and it’s funny how much it’s changed, but you get the idea.
http://jubinsky.wordpress.com/2011/01/23/this-totally-sucks/

-- Josh - Jacksonville, FL - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6eXmOxkM10zI0d-njOHeRQ

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ldl

1135 posts in 2420 days


#13 posted 02-10-2012 04:47 PM

Add a remote switch and that will alleviate the switch problem and make turning on and off simpler too.

-- Dewayne in Bainbridge, Ga. - - No one can make you mad. Only you decide when you get mad - -

View Gene Howe's profile (online now)

Gene Howe

10624 posts in 3484 days


#14 posted 02-10-2012 05:04 PM

Dewayne beat me to that suggestion. I might add that there’s no reason to buy an expensive remote. The ones HD and lowes, as well as ACE, sell for outdoor lighting work just as well.
I got mine for around $10.00. An amp probe on my HF DC shows that it pulls a little more than 14 amp on start. The remote I bought was rated at 15 amp and has performed well for about 4 years.
As to noise, mine’s pretty quiet. I only run it in conjunction with a tool and they are all far louder than the DC.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

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hairy

2729 posts in 3587 days


#15 posted 02-10-2012 05:24 PM

Once again, I’ll be the opposing view. After you have bought this and did all the upgrades, you’re in the same price range as a better unit that has all those features as standard.

I get it about saving money, I just don’t like wasting money.

-- My reality check bounced...

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joshtank

224 posts in 3028 days


#16 posted 02-10-2012 05:42 PM

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#17 posted 02-10-2012 06:12 PM

Hairy,

I don’t agree with you, sorry, but the math simply doesn’t add up.

I have a coupon to get this DC for $150, even if I get the larger impeller, I’m only at $225.
The remote switch is something I’d do either way, so I won’t include it in this.
The larger filter is another thing I would do either way, though I don’t plan to bother with it now.
As for the Thien Baffle, I’ve already made one, they’re cheap to make and easy too. And again, it’s something I’d make either way.

Other than that, what is going to cost money? Reorienting the motor and blower is something I’ll do myself, likely with stuff I have around the shop.

The next closest in price is the 1-1/2hp Dustroyer from Penn State, and I don’t deal with them unless I have to. If you’ve read my blog on their wonderful customer service you’ll know why. And it’s still $269 on sale, and they don’t have any in stock.

Sorry, but I’ve thought about this for some time. If there really was a model that would do the same thing for the same price, I would have found it by now. And with all the guys who have told me that the HF DC does an awesome job as-is, I think I’m going to stick to my original decision and go with the HF.

I can afford the $150 right now, and if I decide to upgrade it later and spend a little money on it, that’s OK with me, especially if it nets a performance gain.

Kenny

-- Kenny

View MSD's profile

MSD

20 posts in 2895 days


#18 posted 02-10-2012 06:19 PM

Hey Kenny,
I don’t think you’ll regret the HF DC. I picked one up on their New Years Day (25% off) and really like it for the price. I have done the stovepipe mod and put a Thein Baffle in the collector ring . It’s very impressive mod (for a very cheap price). There are plenty of sights on the internet explaining the mod. The chips still go through the fan but I can live with that. From what I’ve read switching the impeller isn’t practical at all. Even if you had to replace the HF impeller with another HF, I think the unit is still a great buy.
I also put on a Wynn filter, but instead of using the 35A I used the C1425 filter and mounted it so I could remove the filter from the top, without having to remove the lower bag. Dick Wynn is great to work with and the company seems to bend over backward in customer service.
My shop is a small 1 ½ car garage and I just use the flex hose to connect each machine. Results better than I expected. Maybe someday I’ll go with dedicated piping, but what I have is working great for now.

-- If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#19 posted 02-10-2012 06:33 PM

One of the main reasons I want to quiet this thing down a bit is I turn a lot, and I really want a DC to catch what it can when I’m turning, and remove the majority of dust from sanding on the lathe. I have a fan on the ceiling over my head that does a good job keeping 95% of the dust out of my face, but it still ends up on the floor and everywhere else (and clogs the crap out of my air filters). I’m hoping this will help keep a bit of that dust from accumulating like it does.

So I’m hoping that stuffing it under the enclosed stairwell will quiet it down some, as my lathe isn’t loud at all. And as I plan to add large filters to the vents where it will be stored, I’m hoping they will help catch some of the fines the bags let through.

The lathe will also be the machine closest to the DC, which I’m hoping will help keep the suction at it’s maximum to handle some of the larger shavings produced by the lathe.

As for the Thien Baffle, it’s something I’ll have to think about a bit. I do like the idea of protecting the impeller from the larger hard chunks.

Has anyone tried the #96478 4”x10’ clear hose from Harbor Freight? It has some very good reviews on it, I’m just wondering if I should grab one when I get the dust collector to save a trip to Woodcraft or Rockler?

Thanks

-- Kenny

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hairy

2729 posts in 3587 days


#20 posted 02-10-2012 07:22 PM

The math won’t add up without all the numbers.

You don’t count the filter. That’s around $150. Does that come with the paddle to keep it clean? I don’t know.

You don’t count the remote. Factor in around $50.

Want a timer? I’ve never used mine but it could be handy.

Tax and shipping on these?

All the mdf and hardware to reconfigure this. Maybe they’re leftovers, but they did cost something at some point.

How much time do you want to work on a dust collector? If you get a lot of shop time it’s not an issue.

I’m just trying to give you some food for thought. I hope you are satisfied with whatever you decide.

-- My reality check bounced...

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Mainiac Matt

8166 posts in 2384 days


#21 posted 02-10-2012 08:06 PM

I just installed this 2 HP Grizzly unit…

and really like it… I picked it up for $375 on their holiday sale…

The impellor is 12-3/4” and quite beefy. I’ve put a few chunck through it without any signs of damage.

The motor is a beastly, sealed, continuous duty rated, true 2 HP…..

The filter is 1 micron with the flapper cleaner.

It moves some serious air an I put a blast gate on each of the three 4” Y outlets for my three machine clusters, which are arranged in a ‘U’ around the DC

It’s 220 v only, so you will have to wire a dedicated 220 circuit, but for me that was no big deal and I’m happy to have my current cut in half (no tripped brakers for me).

By the time you buy a HF unit, ship it, buy a filter, ship it and fuss around with installation, you’ll be ahead of the game with the Grizzly. Also, Grizzly supports their equipment with a decent warranty and repair parts in inventory.

The only down side is that the cheap remotes are not rated for 220 volt…. So I’m just going to buy a 10’ run of wire from HD and remotely mount the switch inbetween my TS, jointer and planer.

I really like this DC!

I’ve got nothing against HF…. but I wanted a DC …. not a DC project.

Good luck with what ever direction you go

-- I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam

View Gene Howe's profile (online now)

Gene Howe

10624 posts in 3484 days


#22 posted 02-10-2012 09:41 PM

Joshtank,
Not exactly like that one. But, several on LJs have bought that one and, I guess it works fine.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View Kenny 's profile

Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#23 posted 02-10-2012 10:58 PM

SSNVET,
I don’t have 220v, nor do I have 2 open slots in my box, so 220v is out. Trust me, I wish it wasn’t, but such is life. I could use one of the converters that plug into 2 separate 120v outlets (on different circuits), but that’s another cost and more hassle.

As well, I do not have that much in my budget, just not an option for me. Thanks though.

-- Kenny

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#24 posted 02-10-2012 11:04 PM

Hairy,
I have a remote already, which is money I do not have to spend now. And like I stated, it’s an expense that would stack on any other collector I purchased anyway.
Cost of materials I already have also don’t matter, as it’s money I do not have to spend now.
Shipping is also a moot point, as I’m going to pick this thing up on a trip I have to make down that way anyway.

Time, it’s free. I like to build things, it’s why I enjoy this hobby. I was a metal-worker long before I ever shaped a piece of wood, and I still enjoy it. So really, I don’t care if I spend a day or two working on this thing. It’ll be fun to find new ways to make it work better, really not a problem for me.

And as a final note, I made a statement in my first post in the thread in hopes of avoiding this topic. It’s something that always gets brought up whenever someone wants to buy a tool or machine and they have a low budget they can not go over and it doesn’t include the “big name brands”.
Someone always wants to tell them to spend more money on this or that because it will work better.

Now think about this for a minute, don’t you think that if I had the money and/or could afford it that I would have started out looking at the other options in the $300+ range rather than the cheapest thing I could find? Or if I had extra money that I could possibly spend if it came down to it that I would have made this next statement in my opening post?

“However, please refrain from telling me I need to spend $350 on some big name collector, as I simply do not have the money, nor can I really afford to “save up”, as I have other machines and tools I would like (and need) to buy in the near future. So this is basically “it”, unless I can find something for the same price or just a small amount more.”

I will be completely honest right here and now: I have exactly $235 in my “tool savings account” that I can spend to build my entire DC system. That is it, no more. It doesn’t leave a lot of room for hoses, clamps, pipe, etc, as it is.

And in reality, I need a DC now, not in six months when I save up the other $200 necessary to buy some other more expensive collector. And to be honest, I don’t want to spend any more than I have to on this. I’m going to do the best I can with what I get and do whatever cheap mods to make it better that I can afford.

Now if you have any tips, tricks, attachments or low-dollar add-on’s that I can build for little money to improve the HF DC that I am going to buy, I’m all ears.

-- Kenny

View Gene Howe's profile (online now)

Gene Howe

10624 posts in 3484 days


#25 posted 02-10-2012 11:15 PM

Kenny,
You are a man after my own heart, buddy.
I would suggest building a Thein lid arrangement for a trash can or barrel. Collects the debris, doesn’t let the chunks hit the vanes and saves the mess of emptying that bottom bag quite as often.
Here’s a lid built by a fellow LJ. HOME MADE

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

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ChuckC

829 posts in 2990 days


#26 posted 02-10-2012 11:23 PM

You can’t go wrong with the HF DC, even if you left it stock.

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Vrtigo1

434 posts in 3047 days


#27 posted 02-11-2012 12:04 AM

I have the HF DC and like it. I have two runs of 4” S&D PVC that are about 40’ total length each. One goes along the two walls of my garage on each side of the DC. My router table is about 30’ of 4” PVC away from the DC, and I have 10’ of 2.5” between the RT and PVC and it works fine. Like others said, use wyes instead of tees and use sweeping 90s. I also have my planer hooked up with 2.5 to 4” adapter, 10’ of 4” flex and 25’ of PVC and it works great, no problems at all.

View Kenny 's profile

Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#28 posted 02-11-2012 02:00 AM

Thanks guys, you have all got me pretty excited about this little rig.

I’ve been preparing it’s “new home” under the stairwell, adding a new switched outlet for it (on the circuit for my spare bedroom which is rarely used) and cutting holes for the filters in the door and walls to let the DC exhaust freely and also capture any fines the bag lets through.

I have also began mocking up the two runs of PVC that will feed the machines in my shop.

I think I’m going to ditch the wye that comes off the DC itself and figure out a better solution that will allow for more airflow. I just can’t see creating turbulence right at the blower housing helping the flow much.

I do have a few ideas, but I’ll wait to see what I do before I get into that much.

Also, relocating the blower so it blows directly into the ring rather than through the flex hose will allow me to fit a trash can directly under the inlet of the blower, making for a straight shot to a Thien baffle.

As well I’ve been reading up on bending and forming PVC a bit, as eliminating as many joints as possible seems like a good way to reduce drag, and also save a few dollars on fittings (those big sweeping 90’s and 45’s aint cheap!)

Thanks to everyone who has given me support or ideas, I really appreciate it. I think building this whole system is going to be a ton of fun. I think I have a bit of “Tim Taylor” in me, as I always like to modify stuff and try to boost it’s performance!

-- Kenny

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ldl

1135 posts in 2420 days


#29 posted 02-12-2012 04:45 AM

Are you talking bout bending the 4” PVC pipe? If so be sure to post pic of that I would like to see it done.

-- Dewayne in Bainbridge, Ga. - - No one can make you mad. Only you decide when you get mad - -

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DIYaholic

19624 posts in 2730 days


#30 posted 02-12-2012 05:41 AM

I have seen the grey electric PVC conduit lightly heated with a butane tourch and bent. The same should work for plumbing PVC. I know there are springs that can be inserted into copper pipe, to keep it from kinking, when bending. There should be a way to heat plumbing PVC and not crimp/kink it, just have to figure out exactly how to support it while heating/bending.

If you go this route, plaese post about the process as I’m sure many would be interested.I am!

-- Randy-- I may not be good...but I am slow! If good things come to those who wait.... Why is procrastination a bad thing?

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#31 posted 02-12-2012 06:27 AM

I will post plenty of pics if I end up bending the PVC, as well I may even attempt a video.

As for keeping the tube from collapsing, the method I have read about uses a test plug inserted about 2” to 4” into each end, as you don’t want to distort the ends. The plugs trap the air inside, and when you heat the pipe to bend it, the air inside expands and creates just enough pressure to keep the pipe from buckling.

You still need to make very gradual bends, but it’s entirely possible.

The biggest benefit is making flares on the ends to fit over another section of pipe, eliminating a female to female connector, and also reducing drag on the system. You can also flare the pipe to fit over the fittings on machines that have odd sizes, and I have even heard of people forming a square fitting to connect to a machine with a square outlet.

I’ve heard of heating the PVC with everything from propane and MAPP gas torches to multiple heat guns. Although, I do recall seeing an insulated “box” that you laid a section of PVC into to preheat for bending either in a magazine or on the web, and it was a DIY piece also with instructions on how to make the box. I just need to find it!

I’ll keep you posted.

-- Kenny

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DIYaholic

19624 posts in 2730 days


#32 posted 02-12-2012 06:47 AM

Sounds like you got it all under control!

I just want to look over your shoulder as you progress through the project.

A video would be cool, but don’t forget still pictures of important details!

-- Randy-- I may not be good...but I am slow! If good things come to those who wait.... Why is procrastination a bad thing?

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Jerry

70 posts in 2702 days


#33 posted 02-12-2012 09:55 AM

I have the HF unit paid 129.00 for it couple years ago. I have added the Wynn filter and a Dust Deputy over time and it is a great set up. This unit is in my basement garage next to the shop where I park my jeep, no dust on the jeep at all.

The reason for the material in the bag is after a hard run in the shop the barrel filled up so it overflowed into the HF dust bag. The Jet between the dust deputy and the HF unit is not being used right now, picked it up for 50.00 and will use it for my compound miter saw and sanding table.

Perhaps the best investment to combat dust I have made is in my Jet 1000B dust filter unit.

This unit flat keeps the shop air dust free, it is amazing!!

-- We are all one decision away from stupid.

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kizerpea

774 posts in 2423 days


#34 posted 02-12-2012 02:41 PM

fill the pvc with sand, heat it an bend…..sand keeps it from colapsing..BANG!

-- IF YOUR NOT MAKING DUST...YOU ARE COLLECTING IT! SOUTH CAROLINA.

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#35 posted 02-12-2012 03:32 PM

I’ve heard of the sand thing, but I’ve got a bad back and lugging sand around isn’t easy for me, even in small amounts. Hence my liking the “captured air” method. Air is nice and light! I can handle air all day long!

Xplorx4, I like your set-up. The HF unit dwarfs the other in a major way too! I like that!
As for the air filter, I wish I had the dough for one, I really do. For now, my two “box fan filters” with 20”x20” furnace filters will have to do. I do have another unit in the works though that will also use furnace filters (.5 micron) and a 580cfm centrifugal fan housed in a plywood enclosure I am constructing. It will work on the same basic design as a “real” air filter, just home-made rather than purchased.

-- Kenny

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DIYaholic

19624 posts in 2730 days


#36 posted 02-12-2012 03:35 PM

Ken,

A repurposed squirrel cage furnace blower, scrap ply, hardware & a little electric parts, make a great shop made air cleaner. Blowers can be had for next to nothing!

-- Randy-- I may not be good...but I am slow! If good things come to those who wait.... Why is procrastination a bad thing?

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#37 posted 02-12-2012 03:37 PM

As for the Thien baffle and reorienting the motor and blower housing, this is what I am going for HERE

As you can see in the link, the blower is firing into the ring directly with no flex. I really like that. I also like that it will allow me to put the barrel right under the blower with a straight shot of tube, rather than need to run a hose with bends, etc. Just looks to make for a very compact unit without any unnecessary constriction in the piping.

I’m hoping my little wind speed meter has enough capacity to measure velocity at the ends of the runs, that way I can at least get some sort of idea if I improve things or make them worse if I make changes.

Does anyone have a system to measure changes that they know works and doesn’t require some huge investment in scientific equipment?

-- Kenny

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Scot

344 posts in 3451 days


#38 posted 02-12-2012 06:56 PM

Kenny I ran that same HF DC in my shop for 3 years with no problems at all. I do recommend you look into a cyclone separator as well. There is a seller on ebay selling them for around $200 and it works fantastic with the HF DC.

You can look at pics of my set up on My New Shop thread hear on LJ’s.
I have since upgraded my DC to the 3 HP Grizzly due to the higher cfm’s I needed for my new unisaw.
It’s a very inexpensive way to build a 2 stage DC system.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View ducky911's profile

ducky911

237 posts in 2844 days


#39 posted 02-12-2012 09:45 PM

I have the 2 hp 220 volt grizzley 1 mircon. I moved it to outside the shop and piped the inside with 6” sewer pipie. It good for one machine at a time. They are noisy so out of the shop is a help and the one micron is down to zero out of the shop. Still have dust. I have festool vac and sander and it even puts a bit of dust out. The dust that harms you is smaller than you can see. I use to shovel the sawdust out now i blow it with a leaf blower nowand again.

I have desided that i just fooling myself with all the money i have spent that my shop is safe. I just ordered the trend pro with hearing protect also.

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

70 posts in 2702 days


#40 posted 02-12-2012 10:47 PM

I too wear a respirator and hearing protection when running equipment or sanding it isn’t worth the risk to not wear it. My respirator is a 3M and filters out the chemicals associated with finishing. If you have not built a sanding table it is worth the time and effort they are simple to do.

I will be going into more detail on my Blog in the next few days.

-- We are all one decision away from stupid.

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redryder

2393 posts in 3157 days


#41 posted 02-13-2012 06:37 AM

SSNVET said:
I’ve got nothing against HF…. but I wanted a DC …. not a DC project

This is the best statement I’ve read in a long time. People here buy a Dust Collection system, take it home then tear it apart to “Hot Rod it”. Don’t they have more fun things to build….................

-- mike...............

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Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#42 posted 02-13-2012 03:51 PM

Redryder,

Fun is something that is subjective to the person doing the work.

I like to buy old machines and tools for very little money and invest my time into refurbishing them to like-new, and I often end up with great working old tools that are built many times stronger than it’s modern counterpart for 1/4 the cost.
Take my 1938 Walker-Turner Driver-Line 12” band-saw for example, which I have exactly $56 invested in after new tires, bearings, belt and some other odd pieces. It will resaw 6-3/8”, just as much as many 14” saws without a riser, and is built like a tank with a beefy cast iron frame that dwarfs that of most 12” saws made today. It has lasted 74 years to date, and after it’s last rebuild, I see no reason it won’t outlast me! Hard to beat that for $56!
I also had a blast and learned a lot rebuilding it, like how to true and crown tires and about blade speeds, etc.

I see this DC the same way. I will likely learn a lot about dust collection and airflow in the process of “Hot Rodding” it, and I will end up with a DC that should compete performance-wise with other DC’s costing nearly twice as much.

So really, no, I don’t have anything “more fun” to build. I find gaining knowledge about new subjects extremely enjoyable, and I like to fabricate, modify and “Hot-Rod” machines and tools. For me, this will be a ton of fun.

It’s like buying an infill plane kit rather than spending $1500 on a Brese. You get to make it yourself and have the joy of doing that, and end up with a very nice useable product in the end.
It’s a win-win!

-- Kenny

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DIYaholic

19624 posts in 2730 days


#43 posted 02-13-2012 04:36 PM

Kenny,

Well said!

-- Randy-- I may not be good...but I am slow! If good things come to those who wait.... Why is procrastination a bad thing?

View redryder's profile

redryder

2393 posts in 3157 days


#44 posted 02-13-2012 06:57 PM

Kenny,
I totally get refurbing old tools, cars etc. What I was getting at was I can’t picture myself going out and buying something new with the intension of tearing it down to make it more productive. I would just buy something more productive. I also understand people who want to build it from scratch as the downdraft table above. My grandson is in the same group that would tear something new apart just to see how it works. I guess the “why and how it works” factor is more important to some. Thanks for your point of view Kenny…..........

-- mike...............

View gfadvm's profile

gfadvm

14940 posts in 2745 days


#45 posted 02-14-2012 03:09 AM

Kenny, I too try to never pay retail. After looking at A LOT of chip separators I built the one I posted yesterday. It was the simplest and cheapest to build.

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

View Sarit's profile

Sarit

549 posts in 3195 days


#46 posted 02-14-2012 07:51 AM

One thing to consider is if you can use a separator and then simply pipe the exhaust outdoors. There are a few reasons why you may not want to do it, but if they are not applicable to you, then that’s the cheapest solution to achieving the best air quality and it will even give you more cfm.

Reasons why venting outside may not be suitable for you:
- You have combustion devices (gas water heater or furnace) that will back draft combustion gases (carbon monoxide) into your workshop.
- You cannot afford to vent out that much conditioned air from your shop (800 cfm conditioned air out = 800 cfm unconditioned air in).
- No place to locate the vent pipe to the outside/don’t want a gaping whole in the side of your house. (Some ppl will cut a plywood panel to fit a window and run the vent through a hole in the plywood.)
- Don’t want to bother the neighbors with the noise/fine dust

View Kenny 's profile

Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#47 posted 02-14-2012 08:51 AM

Sarit, I have considered that. I’m still on the fence though. It’s something I’ll need to figure out.

-- Kenny

View Scot's profile

Scot

344 posts in 3451 days


#48 posted 02-14-2012 04:04 PM

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View Scot's profile

Scot

344 posts in 3451 days


#49 posted 02-14-2012 04:17 PM

Eventually I will mount the blower directly on top of the separator. I will be building a large duct for the cannister filters to mount on and adding to more filters. The filters will be mounted high to free up more floor space.
I used the HF 2 HP DC on this separator for three years with no problems at all.
I upgraded to the 3 HP grizzly because the new unisaw needed a little more air flow, it has two 4” ducts built in the cabinet. And I wanted the canister filters vs. the bag filters.
Before the grizzly upgrade I had just under $500 invested in the system.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View Kenny 's profile

Kenny

260 posts in 2503 days


#50 posted 02-14-2012 09:31 PM

That is one heck of a system you have there Scot!

I’ve considered the cyclone like you have -there, and I may attempt one still. But the Thien baffle in a trash can is compact and will fit in the space allotted, where as the cyclone would need to sit outside of the enclosure I have prepared We’ll see what happens.

Anyway, my new DC ships tomorrow and I am pretty excited to see it arrive.

I’m thinking I’ll start a blog to show how this all progresses over time and to track any improvements made, and also to show how i bend and expand the PVC.

-- Kenny

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