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Marines

by Howie
posted 01-15-2012 02:41 AM


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82 replies

82 replies so far

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GMman

3902 posts in 2364 days


#1 posted 01-15-2012 02:46 AM

I saw the video and it was very disturbing specially taping it for all to see.
What about the things that happen and are not on tapes?

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GMman

3902 posts in 2364 days


#2 posted 01-15-2012 03:04 AM

US probes video of Marines urinating on dead Afghans
The US military was investigating a “disgusting” online video purportedly showing Marines urinating on the corpses of Taliban fighters in Afghanistan, a Pentagon spokesman said.

Tweet

US probes video of Marines urinating on dead Afghans
The video shows what appears to be four servicemen, dressed in US military uniform, relieving themselves onto three bloodied bodies on the ground, apparently aware that they are being filmed.

“Have a great day, buddy,” one of them says, giggling.

It is not clear from the video whether the dead Afghans were Taliban insurgents or civilians.

The Pentagon has not yet verified the video, but spokesman John Kirby told AFP: “Regardless of the circumstances or who is in the video, this is… egregious, disgusting behavior, unacceptable for anyone in uniform.”

“It turned my stomach,” he added of the video, which was posted on the Live Leak website.

The Afghan Taliban Thursday denounced the video as “barbaric.”

“This is a barbaric act. Over the past 10 years there have been hundreds of similar cases that were not revealed,” Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahed told AFP.

If authenticated, the images—which conjure up previous abuses committed by US troops during the decade-long war—could spark deep anger and resentment in Afghanistan and the wider Muslim world.

A military official who asked not to be named said the helmet and weapon carried by one of the men seems to indicate the four could be members of an elite sniper team.

The official also said such conduct would be punishable under the US code of military justice.

The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a prominent US Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization, condemned the alleged desecration of corpses.

“If verified as authentic, the video shows behavior that is totally unbecoming of American military personnel and that could ultimately endanger other soldiers and civilians,” CAIR said in a statement on Thursday.

“We trust that this disturbing incident will be promptly investigated in a transparent manner and that appropriate actions will be taken based on the results of that investigation,” the statement said.

“Any guilty parties must be punished to the full extent allowed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice and by relevant American laws.”

A statement issued by the Pentagon said: “Headquarters Marine Corps has recently been made aware of a video that portrays Marines urinating on what appear to be deceased members of the Taliban.

“While we have not yet verified the origin or authenticity of this video, the actions portrayed are not consistent with our core values and are not indicative of the character of the Marines in our Corps.

“This matter will be fully investigated.”

Some 20,000 Marines are deployed in Afghanistan, mostly in Kandahar and Helmand provinces in the south of the war-ravaged country, the heartland of the hardline Islamist Taliban movement ousted from power in late 2001.

The United States and its NATO allies have some 130,000 troops fighting the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan.

US and coalition partners plan to hand over security for the whole of the country to Afghan forces by the end of 2014, allowing the withdrawal of combat forces.

In March 2011 the US military apologized after pictures surfaced of US soldiers from a rogue Army unit posing with dead Afghans. Five soldiers from the unit were charged with murder for allegedly shooting civilians for sport.

The German weekly Der Spiegel, which first published the photos, said the Pentagon had tried to prevent their release, fearing a popular backlash against troops in Afghanistan.

In November the ringleader of the “kill team”—which was also charged with taking fingers and teeth as trophies from civilians killed for sport—was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison by a military panel.

That scandal was among the worst faced by the military since the April 2004 revelation of prisoner abuse at the US-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, which became a potent negative symbol of the US occupation.

Eventually, 11 soldiers were convicted in connection to the abuse, and received punishments ranging from an army discharge to 10 years in prison.

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RibsBrisket4me

1376 posts in 1172 days


#3 posted 01-15-2012 03:06 AM

War is hell…those who don’t realize it, are ignorant.

-- http://www.PictureTrail.com/gid6255915

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GMman

3902 posts in 2364 days


#4 posted 01-15-2012 03:27 AM

It’s more than hell buddy.
Sending those young men at war and pushing them to the limits.
Most come back with a ruin life, those that come back.

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Howie

2656 posts in 1589 days


#5 posted 01-15-2012 04:34 AM

Somehow I do not care about upsetting the Muslims. They didn’t care about upsetting me with 9/11.

-- Life is good.

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Rick

6454 posts in 1699 days


#6 posted 01-15-2012 05:47 AM

YES!! This is BS that these Marines would face any kind of charges for their actions! It’s WAR for Gods sake!!

I have 3 Videos on here of the ATROCITIES that THEY (Taliban) perform on a Regular Basis, or at least the ones that have been “Documented”.

The Beheading of Eugene Armstrong! ,,,, The Beheading of Nick Berg! ,,,,Another one of them “Lecturing” about 20 People of their own Country. Then using AK 47’s they Kill them all. Then a Pistol Shot to each of their Heads just to make sure!

The Do-Gooders expect all the Allied Forces to play NICE NICE with these …well I was going to say Animals…but I like REAL Animals. “SCUM of The Earth” would be more fitting!!

No. I wouldn’t post the Link to the Web Site that has this stuff or even the name.

Now that I just typed that ….maybe it would be a good idea to make this stuff more available.

It MIGHT just “SOBER UP” some of the “IDIOTS” that think or believe that Our Fighting Men And Women are over there to “Hand Out Candy” to all the Kiddies and using Rubber Bullets so they won’t seriously Injure these “FREAKS”!!

I’m ANGRY and I’m DONE!!

-- COMMON SENSE Is Like Deodorant. The People Who need It Most, Never Use It.

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fussy

980 posts in 1717 days


#7 posted 01-15-2012 08:31 AM

Howie,

First, thanks for what you and your son have done for us. Secondly, we put those kids in a place where people try to kill them, they don’t know for sure whether or not they’re bad guys or not until the shit hits the fan (remember that?), they keep getting sent back for multiple deployments until they become jaded to the killing, and then they are up on charges for pissing on dead guys qho had just tried to kill them? How dare they violate the sanctity of their holy moslem bodies? Firing squad is too good for them, right? That’s what happens when politicians try to fight a war, with other people’s blood, with RULES when the other side just fights a war. Remember how well that worked? Of course it’s a crock. They should get thanked for their service, and told not to raise their cameras above their schmetzels next time. Who gives a crap about taliban sensitivities anywho? I think it’s absolutely horrendous that anyone would criticize the act anyway. In WWII, bombs typically landed up to 5 miles from the target so the British elected to go in for night time carpet bombing of cities in Germany, killing thousands of civilians a night. Now, if our guys violate the sensitiiveties of the bad guys they just whacked, they are villified? Doesn’t make any sense, and people who have not had bullets snapping past their ears should not presume to judge the actions of one who has. Bet their co had no problem til the stuff started rolling downhill.

Stay on your soapbox Howie.

Steve

-- Steve in KY. 44 years so far with my lovely bride. Think I'll keep her.

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redryder

2170 posts in 1768 days


#8 posted 01-15-2012 10:04 AM

The only stupid thing they did was to film it for the Utube generation.
I suspect thier buddies thought it funny.
I also imagine no one will be laughing at thier courtmartial…...............

-- mike...............

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Rick M.

4023 posts in 1046 days


#9 posted 01-15-2012 10:17 AM

Agreed, no one cares what they did only that they were stupid enough to film it.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

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Clint Searl

1465 posts in 1027 days


#10 posted 01-15-2012 10:20 AM

They should be given medals for exterminating the ragheads.

-- Clint Searl....Ya can no more do what ya don't know how than ya can git back from where ya ain't been

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KnickKnack

990 posts in 2233 days


#11 posted 01-15-2012 10:29 AM

If we adopt an attitude of ”they did terrible things, so it’s OK for us to do terrible things” then, IMHO, they will have won.

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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Howie

2656 posts in 1589 days


#12 posted 01-15-2012 03:11 PM

KnickKnack, were you ever in the service or and/or a war? “They” are going to win anyway because our politicians don’t support our troops.
One of the worst things to happen was letting the media “embed” with our troops.
I’m a Vietnam vet. I don’t not support this war. I did not support Iraq and I do not support Pakistan. I DO SUPPORT OUR TROOPS! The troops cannot accomplish their mission by getting their fingers smacked for everything that is done.

-- Life is good.

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KnickKnack

990 posts in 2233 days


#13 posted 01-15-2012 03:26 PM

I differentiate between “supporting our troops”, which is good, and right, and proper, and “supporting our troops regardless of what they do”, which is neither good, nor right, nor proper.

IMHO there’s a line to be drawn, even during times of “war”, and, imho, this is beyond that line. Should we not be defending the “moral high ground”?
Comments such as ”They should be given medals for exterminating the ragheads” just put “us” down at the same low depths as the kind of people that planned and executed attrocities such as 9/11

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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Vince

40 posts in 1165 days


#14 posted 01-15-2012 03:30 PM

Let me stir this pot a bit.
I served in the Army then went directly in to police work. I have seen how the liberal media and self serving politicians can destroy people. This nation is headed toward the toilet at quick pace. Just look at how people treated teebow for expressing his Christian beliefs. If teebow were a Muslim no body would have said a thing due to being “politically correct.” You are absolutely correct when you say they train us to fight and kill then seem appalled when we do. Let these soldiers do there job.

-- "Putty and paint make the carpenter I ain't"

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KnickKnack

990 posts in 2233 days


#15 posted 01-15-2012 03:34 PM

You are absolutely correct when you say they train us to fight and kill then seem appalled when we do. Let these soldiers do there job.
But that isn’t what they did.
Unless abusing dead bodies is what they’re trained to do? I’m not in the army, never was, so I bow to your better judgement of what is included in training.

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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grosa

895 posts in 1495 days


#16 posted 01-15-2012 03:53 PM

War is hell. The war should NOT be filmed. Our enemy’s kill us with no regret. What happens in war should stay in war. The money it takes to send over a filing crew should be spent on our troop that make it back to help them lead a normal life (if that is possible) and help the families of those who didn’t make it back. Who the hell cares about the other guys, they don’t care about us! Our troops are RISKING THERE LIVES!!! Support our troops, don’t punish them. That’s how I feel.

-- Have a great day.

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Charles Maxwell

963 posts in 2473 days


#17 posted 01-15-2012 09:32 PM

UhRah! Thanks for your service to country. Here’s what we need more of—-
Allen West on the Marines Incident: ’Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell’
Daniel Halper
January 13, 2012 1:37 PM

Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines’ video, and has given us permission to publish it.

“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?

“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.

“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”

-- Max the "night janitor" at www.hardwoodclocks.com

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GMman

3902 posts in 2364 days


#18 posted 01-15-2012 11:08 PM

””Agreed, no one cares what they did only that they were stupid enough to film it.”“

Right on

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GMman

3902 posts in 2364 days


#19 posted 01-15-2012 11:09 PM

””The only stupid thing they did was to film it for the Utube generation.
I suspect thier buddies thought it funny.
I also imagine no one will be laughing at thier courtmartial……............”“

I agree

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Rick

6454 posts in 1699 days


#20 posted 01-16-2012 10:53 AM

Max: “As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”

YOU got that right!! Wonder if Mr. Knicknacks got it figured out yet?? Probably to busy … “Should we not be defending the “moral high ground”?”

In A NUT Shell? NO! You start Shooting at ME .. My MORALS go into my back pocket and YOU get a BURST of 50 Calibre…. wherever it manages to Nail You!!

”I’m not in the army, never was, so I bow to your better judgement of what is included in training.” ....Should have stopped that sentence right after “judgement”.

-- COMMON SENSE Is Like Deodorant. The People Who need It Most, Never Use It.

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Jimbo4

1135 posts in 1429 days


#21 posted 01-16-2012 11:57 AM

The only thing “disgusting” about the Marines pissing on a dead Taliban is – The stupidity of those guys putting it on Utube. If I had my way, I’d piss on all of ‘em, alive or dead. And, before someone out there in LJ land, who has never been shot at and never seen a body bag – STUFF IT! I was in Vietnam 1969 – 1971, doing “war stuff”.

-- BELT SANDER: Used for making rectangular gouges in wood.

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KnickKnack

990 posts in 2233 days


#22 posted 01-16-2012 12:13 PM

This nation is headed toward the toilet at quick pace

Looking at some of the comments here, it isn’t rocket science to see why.

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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Howie

2656 posts in 1589 days


#23 posted 01-16-2012 02:57 PM

KnickKnack, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But as a vet myself I’m really tired of our military trying to do it’s job and the do gooders putting them down. How would you like it if you did your job everyday only to have someone berate you over some silly little thing you did to blow off a little steam? Everyone in this country enjoys the right to voice their opinions,great, but have they all considered how they won that right? Or who won it for them?
Bottom line is the only reason this is stirred up is because some idiot news person thinks it’s news. There are people in power out there that act horrified at this, but behind the scenes express another opinion. They are not in a position(or they are trying to strenghten their position) to comment any other way but negativly.

-- Life is good.

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Clint Searl

1465 posts in 1027 days


#24 posted 01-16-2012 03:05 PM

This is from another blog. Note the poll results:

EXTRACT: “The liberal media and administration officials are seething with shocked outrage at the release of a video depicting the desecration by urination of three Taliban corpses by four U.S. Marines. Interestingly, the American public is neither as incensed nor apparently even shocked by the revelation. The Washington Post in its online account has included a reader poll with these three options:
What was your reaction to the video that appeared to show Marines urinating on three Afghan corpses?

It’s an unacceptable desecration – 12%

It’s an embarrassment – 7%

It’s not surprising—things like this happen in war – 81%

Total Votes: 13,445*_”No doubt the enraged elites will be equally outraged at such poll results, evidence of the validity of their snide condescension toward the majority of Americans who to them are nothing more than vulgar barbarians clinging to their God and their guns. What that poll says to me is that the American people understand that while urinating on your dead enemy may show a serious lack of respect, it in no way rises to the level of seriousness of that of actually killing them.

“But then again, the liberals are the same folks who don’t give second thought to launching a Hellfire missile from a drone and wiping out a squad of Taliban or Al Qaeda but woe be unto the American trooper who dares inflict pain on a survivor to obtain critical intelligence. They’re the same fools who deplore American forces for not fighting fair. Of that concept, warrior/author, Col. David Hackworth, R.I.P., famously said, “If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn’t plan your mission properly.”“

-- Clint Searl....Ya can no more do what ya don't know how than ya can git back from where ya ain't been

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jackass

350 posts in 2379 days


#25 posted 01-16-2012 03:27 PM

Both the Military and Police Forces are trained to defend us, the news media film the worst possible circumstances, put it on the T.V. news and only show the worst possible content then claim brutality, to sensationalize, and to make a good story. They should be reporting the good things these men and women do to help the public, then, that is not as sensational as someone being tasered because he threatened the lives of innocent by-standers and the police are there to help him and save his life. The media has pretty much destroyed the use of the taser, the next possible option is an instrument that goes “BANG”, instant death to the offender. Come on media and reporters, lighten up and stop trying to be heroes. I know of a situation in the north where an old widow needed help, and the local police went to her home daily to help her light her wood stove all winter, just to keep warm. These are the stories worthy of reporting, not about an out of control 250 pound drunk that needed to be tasered so that he wouldn’t injure himself, or kill someone else. The military has equally as many stories similar to this.
Jack

-- Jack Keefe Shediac NB Canada

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KnickKnack

990 posts in 2233 days


#26 posted 01-16-2012 04:42 PM

How would you like it if you did your job everyday only to have someone berate you over some silly little thing you did to blow off a little steam?

Indeed.

IF you accept that it was wrong, and characterize this as a silly little thing, as an error in judgement, as a “stupid” incident – OK – war etc etc – this is, alas, going to happen.

BUT – take a look at some of the postings above…
Somehow I do not care about upsetting the Muslims
The only stupid thing they did was to film it for the Utube generation.
Agreed, no one cares what they did only that they were stupid enough to film it.
They should be given medals for exterminating the ragheads
I think it’s absolutely horrendous that anyone would criticize the act anyway

These comments are denying that this was wrong, and supporting it as a “good” thing to have done. This I have a problem with.

Allen West, quoted above, imho, got it right…
The Marines were wrong. ... each personally apologize to …

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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KayBee

1007 posts in 1912 days


#27 posted 01-16-2012 10:08 PM

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Desecrating bodies- wrong.
Media feeding frenzy calling for blood- wrong.

It’s war, it happens and Marines know better. On the scale of war atrocties, this is about a .001. Good chewing out from your CO, stand an extra watch. Done and over. The media blowing this up into something a bit less than the mowing down a village of civilians for fun, is beyond irresponsible.

10 year US Navy, Gulf War I veteran

-- Karen - a little bit of stupid goes a long way

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john

2300 posts in 3048 days


#28 posted 01-16-2012 10:20 PM

The biggest problem is eventually the enemy will return the favour 10 times more sadistic .

-- John in Belgrave (Website) http://www.extremebirdhouse.com , http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=112698715866

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Howie

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#29 posted 01-17-2012 01:55 AM

KayBee..you got it right. That has been my whole point.

-- Life is good.

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gfadvm

10981 posts in 1356 days


#30 posted 01-17-2012 02:14 AM

If we’re choosing up sides here, I’m with Howie. John, The enemy has already returned the favor 10 times more sadistic. (see 9/11 and other atrocities).

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

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KayBee

1007 posts in 1912 days


#31 posted 01-17-2012 02:28 AM

You do know that decisions made in fear usually result in the exact thing you fear happening. Yes, it can get worse, but it can get better too.

Simple example. Bully is gonna punch me for my milk money. Give him my milk money before he hits me. Bully laughs and punches anyway because it’s what bullies do.

-- Karen - a little bit of stupid goes a long way

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Howie

2656 posts in 1589 days


#32 posted 01-17-2012 02:53 AM

@ John, then maybe we should quit pussyfotting around and kick their ass good instead of putting up with crap like trying to court martial marines?
When WW2 started everyone pulled together to support a war on two fronts. If this country got into another conflict like that you couldn’t get people in two counties to pull together.
Support the troops, not the acts.

-- Life is good.

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Jimbo4

1135 posts in 1429 days


#33 posted 01-17-2012 06:34 PM

Reading some of the comments here: Were some of you part of the crowd who met us at the San Francisco airport, upon returning from Vietnam, who spat at and threw things at us ? Are you the ones that the Presidio MPs were ordered to stand between, because we had all of our weapons with us, so as not to cause a ruckus? We could have, but did not, even when being spat upon. We were Jolly Green Rescue personnel, who were ordered out in 1972 so fast we did not have time to turn in those weapons. We ignored all of you who did these things to us, because we were NOT intimidated by a horde of thrill seeking children, who were / are afraid of their own shadows, even to this day. Your chants of “war mongers, baby killers, father stabbers, and mother rapers” went on deaf ears. We were the victors, not you!

-- BELT SANDER: Used for making rectangular gouges in wood.

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Howie

2656 posts in 1589 days


#34 posted 01-18-2012 02:40 AM

rosebud….those are the same people that whine about
‘their” rights. wonder where they think “their” rights came from.

-- Life is good.

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Jimbo4

1135 posts in 1429 days


#35 posted 01-18-2012 03:58 AM

Howie ….. Thanks. I had to get that off my chest after all these years.

-- BELT SANDER: Used for making rectangular gouges in wood.

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doordude

1085 posts in 1649 days


#36 posted 01-18-2012 08:18 AM

good comment by allen west.this is 19-20 year olds,with the you tube bug. sing the song,put them back in game, i’m sure they’ll be wiser next go around. no cameras.

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derosa

1556 posts in 1502 days


#37 posted 01-19-2012 02:00 AM

rosebud….those are the same people that whine about
‘their” rights. wonder where they think “their” rights came from.

I get really sick of hearing this from people, tell me, what rights of mine did you actually fight for? If the people actually get sick of a government that is abusing the people in power where do you think the military will stand when the government calls them out against the people? Look at the history of military action here in the states on orders of the government and get back to me with an informed answer on that.

Soldiers have a job to do that the government orders them to do. As such they should never deserve this nations respect and commitment to support them in the carrying out of the nation’s wishes. However, you know as well as I do that this kind of action will only spur the enemy to attempt greater atrocities. Even worse it is now propaganda for the enemy to use to call others to their cause that may not have been previously supportive. Because of this they also could cause greater harm to their fellow soldiers by their actions. Further, just cause the enemy doesn’t act in a decent manner doesn’t mean we should sink to their level or we truly become no better then they are and we completely lose any moral high ground.
Unless there is a history of this the soldiers should be reprimanded and possibly taken down a rank at most. If any of them has a history of this then that person should be forced to resign. No real need to take it further then that.

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

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KayBee

1007 posts in 1912 days


#38 posted 01-19-2012 02:04 AM

You can’t “resign” from the service. Not even officers.

-- Karen - a little bit of stupid goes a long way

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Howie

2656 posts in 1589 days


#39 posted 01-19-2012 03:10 AM

derosa. I’ll take that as you have never been in the military. I see you sign as “Rev. Russ”. Good luck to you and your followers .
Besides I said that not rosebud.
I get sick of the “DoGooders”. I can say that because I fought for the right to expound my opinion too.

-- Life is good.

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derosa

1556 posts in 1502 days


#40 posted 01-19-2012 03:21 AM

I have never been in the military and while I thought at times of joining there was often the issue of being sent to someplace that I feel we don’t belong. It has nothing to do with being a “do gooder” and everything to do with maintaining the high ground.
I would point out http://www.marines.com/main/index/making_marines/culture/traditions/core_values to make my case. Note the first core value listed it honor and yet what these soldiers did had nothing to do with honor. Instead it brought dishonor to themselves, the corp that trained them and the nation that sent them.

What I get sick of is the people who claim to have stood in the front line of rights defense while diminishing and demeaning the voice of the people they claimed to have preserved the free speech of.

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

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Howie

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#41 posted 01-19-2012 04:17 AM

Good for you,Russ.

-- Life is good.

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Jimbo4

1135 posts in 1429 days


#42 posted 01-19-2012 07:31 PM

Maybe (?) I missed the point here. Those Marines, somehow, slipped to the level of those who were bent on murdering them, and their own countrymen. I agreee, they should be LIGHTLY punished, not put in the brig on bread and water. or any other criminal offense. They had just been through hell, and to p… on your adversary is a release of pent-up energy. The whole stupidity of the “incident” was to allow the picture to go viral. Dumb! And to all you woosies out there, who have never been in a like situation, go p… up a rope!

-- BELT SANDER: Used for making rectangular gouges in wood.

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Howie

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#43 posted 01-20-2012 01:00 AM

Right again rosebudjim. You didn’t miss the point, other people did.

-- Life is good.

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HorizontalMike

6942 posts in 1580 days


#44 posted 01-20-2012 02:34 AM

The answer is SIMPLE.

BRING BACK THE MILITARY DRAFT. PERIOD.

Only when the rich, the privileged, the politically connected, etc., send THEIR kids off to war with the SAME rank and at the SAME time as the rest of us, will we see a change in the morality of war and in the very desire to make war over peace.

HorizontalMike #81 in the 1972 Draft

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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HamS

1168 posts in 1055 days


#45 posted 01-20-2012 02:42 AM

Mike, at last a political idea we agree on. Military service should be required of everyone.

-- My mother named me Hamilton, I have been trying to earn my nickname ever since.

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Howie

2656 posts in 1589 days


#46 posted 01-20-2012 02:54 AM

I was drafted in 1966. I accepted that as part of life. I went “to places I didn’t want to go”” I didn’t think we should have been there but…I went. I did things I’m not proud of….but I went. The thanks I get is being able to say I did my part for God and country and my fellow man. People that were never in the military can never understand that.I stand proud I was a soldier and my son stands proud as a marine.
The act the marines committed,while not necessarily nice is by far a lot less than barbaric. These guys will live with a lot more on their minds than p*&&^%$ on dead people. People that express horror at this don’t have a clue,period. They only have an opinion.
Mike, you are correct as far as I’m concerned. It seems to work fine for Ishreal where no one is exempt.

-- Life is good.

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HorizontalMike

6942 posts in 1580 days


#47 posted 01-20-2012 05:27 AM

Ham,
I would add that that military service be ”Unprivileged” military service for everyone. I am sure we all remember how “W” went (and was allowed to go) AWOL in order to skip out on his tour of duty in Vietnam even though he was a qualified active duty combat fighter pilot. THAT kind of privilege just makes me sick!

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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HawkDriver

447 posts in 1299 days


#48 posted 01-20-2012 09:46 AM

KayBee- I could turn in my WO unqualified resignation tomorrow should I decide the Army is no longer for me.

Mike- I recently wrote a research paper for an Army class I was taking about H. W. and the island of ChiChi Jima in WW2. There was some crazy stuff going on there. Makes me wonder about how and why things went the way they did with W. when he was serving. I didn’t think Bush was AWOL, I thought he was given preferential treatment to be placed in the guard rather than active duty.

-- Patrick, Helicopters don't fly. They beat the air into submission.

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murch

1160 posts in 1291 days


#49 posted 01-20-2012 05:53 PM

If it is no big deal for Americans to piss on dead Afghans is it equally no big deal if Afghans
piss on dead Americans?
How would you feel if the video showed that? Would the Afghans be equally deserving of medals?
Not trying to start a riot, just genuinely wondering.

-- A family man has photos in his wallet where his money used to be.

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HorizontalMike

6942 posts in 1580 days


#50 posted 01-20-2012 06:05 PM

@murch +10

My personal point about ”unprivileged” military service is that when ALL are forced to think about such things first hand, then false bravado, mockery, taking of and posting of derogatory/vulgar images, or their direct acts, would be much diminished. I am NOT saying such acts would disappear, but the tendency to brag about them would be less prevalent. The very LAST thing we need to do is ”to become” our enemy in every thought and deed.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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