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Delta Rockwell 20" A/B Bandsaw Fence Question....Help!

by Bertha
posted 12-08-2011 04:06 PM


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52 replies

52 replies so far

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Sodabowski

2009 posts in 1488 days


#1 posted 12-08-2011 04:09 PM

I wish I could afford such a beast… then I could probably be of some help!

Did you already try making your own resaw fence BTW?

-- Holy scrap Barkman!

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Bertha

12951 posts in 1348 days


#2 posted 12-08-2011 04:33 PM

I did, Soda, but I’m not entirely happy with it. I bought this saw specifically for resawing, so I’m willing to fork over the cash for a commercial one. Everything has it’s limits, though, as I’m not spending $400 for the Laguna Driftmaster, lol.

Magswitch makes a resaw fence that just plops on your table. I’m wondering if that might be just as practical.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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doyoulikegumwood

384 posts in 2647 days


#3 posted 12-08-2011 04:53 PM

well I would think just about any fence could be made to work of your willing to drill and tap the table. I like the older jet fence which is a lot like a mini bismyer fence the newer one is kinda junkie.

-- I buy tools so i can make more money,so ican buy more tools so I can work more, to make more money, so I can buy more tool, so I can work more

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Bertha

12951 posts in 1348 days


#4 posted 12-08-2011 04:57 PM

Yeah, I like the older JET too (I’m a JET guy in general). The new one has reasonably decent reviews but I’m like you, it just doesn’t do it for me. You can buy the actual fence designed for the 20 incher but it’s very expensive, like twice the kreg. The Carter conversion is going to hurt ($$) but I’d like to know that I can resaw adequately with the current motor before I drop the coin on fancy guides.

I tapped my JET arms to accept wing extensions. I wasn’t happy about it but it really wasn’t that big of a deal. If I ruin my bandsaw table, that would give me an excuse to order a bigger one, lol. It looks like some aftermarket fences come with an elongated L-bracket that the fence mounts to. I think that should give me the flexibility that I need.

Here’s the JET fence we’re talking about:

Here’s the woodhaven, looks OK:

Here’s the magswitch resaw (very clever):

Here’s the resaw attachment for the Kreg I’m looking at:

For the rich kids, the Laguna:

Here’s the Carter conversion:

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Beginningwoodworker

13341 posts in 2328 days


#5 posted 12-08-2011 05:55 PM

You might could build one Al?

-- CJIII Future cabinetmaker

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Bertha

12951 posts in 1348 days


#6 posted 12-08-2011 06:06 PM

BWW, yeah, I probably could (and probably should, lol). I’m just so backed up on projects that I have more money than time. Sounds like a good place to be…but it sucks.

A nice man at the Saw Center responded to my question about fences and he told me that an aftermarket one should work fine. He remarked that the original Delta fences for this saw are $600. I guess that eliminates that. I’m going to try to give some business to the sawcenter:

http://www.sawcenter.com/

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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GregD

617 posts in 1791 days


#7 posted 12-08-2011 06:28 PM

I think you first want to decide whether you buy into the idea that the fence needs to be adjusted for drift angle, or if you buy into the idea that it doesn’t.

Carter’s also makes a magnetic bandsaw fence, and that design doesn’t make sense at all if you believe in drift angle adjustment. You just eyeball the alignment before engaging the magnets. When I chatted with Alex from Carter’s at the last woodworking show about setting up a band saw for resawing he emphasized other adjustments and led me to believe that drift angle was of no consequence.

For the record, I’ve got the Kreg fence on my 14” Rikon, and I’ve built a tall resaw fence:
http://lumberjocks.com/GregD/blog/21908
http://lumberjocks.com/GregD/blog/21933

The bit of resawing I’ve done this year makes me want to match the height of my resaw fence to my stock. The adjustment I fuss over the most is making sure the fence is parallel – top to bottom – with the blade. And when I was resawing 80” lengths of 8/4 I want to be very sure that both ends of the fence are firmly attached to the table so it doesn’t move when I need to put a lot of pressure on the work to keep it up tight against the fence. I usually find that my resawn work piece (between the fence and the blade) comes out a bit thick at the beginning end of the cut and a bit thin on the final end of the cut. My cut quality is usually OK but not great, provided I am very careful about maintaining a slow feed rate.

In the end, if you plan your resawing so that you have some thickness available to plane off the imperfections things are pretty easy and a shop-made fence that clamps to your top does just fine. My local Woodcraft has a shop made resaw fence on its big band saw, if I’m remembering correctly. If you wanna make like David Marks and resaw veneer with a nearly perfect surface off the saw blade, you are headed far out of my league.

-- Greg D.

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yinjuehua

11 posts in 1326 days


#8 posted 12-08-2011 06:30 PM

Nice bandsaw!
I know some people use 80/20 to build their own fence.

http://lumberjocks.com/Hutch/blog/2740

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GregD

617 posts in 1791 days


#9 posted 12-08-2011 06:30 PM

In a pinch for time I’d pop for the Carter’s fence. Probably not up to big tasks, but it looks crazy convenient for all the run-of-the-mill smaller stuff.

-- Greg D.

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Bertha

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#10 posted 12-08-2011 06:33 PM

Greg, thanks for this. I had grand plans of slicing thin veneers, etc. but I’d settle for being within 1/8” of my desired thickness, then off to the planer. My current homebrewed fence is just a tall piece of UHMW plastic on a wooden support. With big blades, I don’t notice appreciable drift. In response to your first line, I’d have to say that I don’t believe in correction more than I do. I think I’m just kind of unhappy with the performance of my saw in general; and I’m looking for a way to get me interested in fiddling with it. I tend to do this; if I can get a new toy for it, I’m more inclined to do some work with it.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Bertha

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#11 posted 12-08-2011 06:38 PM

Greg, I think the Carter is more akin to my current homebrew, sans the magnets. I like the idea of the magswitch fence above, but I’m planning to resaw a lot of 8’ boards. It just feels like I should have a more stable fence. I’m going to look into this Carter. Greg, what stabilizers are you using on your Rikon?

For $99 bucks, the Carter is looking pretty good. No drilling either.
http://www.carterproducts.com/product.asp?product_id=474&cat_id=75

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Bertha

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#12 posted 12-08-2011 06:40 PM

Cr1, so would you go with a fixed fence or one of these newfangled magnetic jobs. I’m having a hard time defining the advantages of both. I feel like I want a long fence with a swappable resaw attachment that rides in t-slots. But do I?

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Rick Dennington

3402 posts in 1849 days


#13 posted 12-08-2011 06:52 PM

Hey Al,

You might think about doing what I did on my saw…. I have a Delta 14” with fence, but I hardly ever used it for re-sawing…it was (is) not that good..too much drift… Soooo…I made a sled to mount into the miter slot. I made it out of MFD, cut a dado in the bottom to use a hardwood runner, just like you make for a tablesaw. I then cut another dado about 6” from the front of the sled to fit a miter gauge, and screwed a tall hardwood board to the m.g. for a fence….just raise the blade arm to the higth you need, clamp your board you’re gonna re-saw on to the hardwood fence, clamp your miter gauge down, and you’re in business….hardly any drift at all…... here’s a couple of pics of mine…..don’t cost much either…..

-- " I started with nothing, and I've still got most of it left".......

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Bertha

12951 posts in 1348 days


#14 posted 12-08-2011 07:22 PM

Rick, I can’t see the pictures on this computer but I’ll check them out later. I built a log sled that would work reasonably as a resaw fence with some adjustments. Perhaps I should look at building one a bit harder.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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superstretch

1504 posts in 1348 days


#15 posted 12-08-2011 08:52 PM

I think Bertha is just looking to show off his BS again ;)

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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Bertha

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#16 posted 12-08-2011 10:49 PM

^Stretch, I’m trying to obtain a vintage Oliver TS so I can start the bragging all over again;)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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superstretch

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#17 posted 12-08-2011 10:53 PM

Your galoot handicap is starting to get dangerously high

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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Bertha

12951 posts in 1348 days


#18 posted 12-08-2011 10:55 PM

^Stretch, I will balance it with more galootish pursuits, I promise. In this particular case, I’m not galoot enough to rip 30 8-foot 8/4’s by hand, lol. But once I have them ripped, the planes will come out.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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superstretch

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#19 posted 12-08-2011 11:09 PM

Sounds like an excuse to me… Regardless, that BS looks spectacular.. very clean

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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Bertha

12951 posts in 1348 days


#20 posted 12-08-2011 11:18 PM

I have several excuses that run on 240V;)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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cabmaker

1311 posts in 1463 days


#21 posted 12-08-2011 11:36 PM

Hi Al, I ve got the delta 20 also and personally I would not insult mine with either of those fences. Resaw fence is very, very simple to fab. As you stated you had already made one. You might want to try it again with a twist: attach approx. 3/8 dia. dowel to it. I attach mine vertically with screws as needed and align it at or near the leading teeth edge. Works well and no more adjusting the fence for drift. JB

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GregD

617 posts in 1791 days


#22 posted 12-09-2011 12:25 AM

For 8’ stock I’m going to have to – and you maybe can guess how painful it is for me to do this – agree with Cr1. <grin> I’d want a fence at least as long as the table is wide, and clamped at both ends. It seems on long pieces the lever-arm is often working against me. And I’d be unhappy to mess up a big piece because the fence slipped.

The “resaw guide” gizmo for some fences seems to be for resawing stock that isn’t jointed on the fence side. I’ve never used mine.

I’ve got Carter’s guides to put on my Rikon but I don’t yet have them on. The only advantage I’m expecting is that they might be less painful to adjust. And it’s easy to put on their guide for tight curves / thin blades, which I also have.

A table saw is kinda like a dog – whistle and it’s usually ready to do what you want as best it can. My bandsaw is more like a cat – you really have to schmooze it to get it to do what you want. When mine is cutting funny I’ll take the blade off and go through the whole process – clean the wheels, center the gullet on the tire, reset all the guides. Usually I can’t tell that anything was wrong but after remounting the blade something is different and (sometimes) I get a better cut. Even then it is sensitive to the feed rate – smooth and painfully slow works best for me. And a good blade iis essential it seems to me. But I was trying to loose less than 1/16” thickness from the kerf and planing the saw marks off both sides of the kerf. I’m thinking my results will get better slowly as I get more practice.

-- Greg D.

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Loren

7556 posts in 2302 days


#23 posted 12-09-2011 12:59 AM

I have the same type of saw.

If anybody wants one I know of one for sale for $450 or so in So. California
as of December 2011.

Anyway, Al – what Carter kit fits it?

-- http://lawoodworking.com

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Loren

7556 posts in 2302 days


#24 posted 12-09-2011 01:07 AM

BTW – my fence was salvaged from a tilt-top craftsman table saw
vintage 1940s or so. I bought it for $10, used the motor for
something or other and used the fence front rail and clamping
widget to which I attached a 16” long piece of 2×3” walnut which
serves as the base for attaching various resaw fences.

Really a pretty lame solution, actually, but cheap. I’ve tried sticking
a magnet behind the back end of the fence and it prevents
most flex in modest rip cuts. For resawing I have to clamp a board
to the saw to back-up the end of the fence to prevent flex.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

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Jim Jakosh

11466 posts in 1760 days


#25 posted 12-09-2011 02:33 AM

I would just make my own designed the way that suits me. I have seen some made with just a round rod sticking out from the fence for one point of contact and you just follow a line when resawing. Once you get a fairly straight cut and it is square with your table, then you can put it up against a high flat fence go to town ripping. I have a 14 ” Grizzly G0555 saw and I use the fence that came with it and screwed on a 6” high board. It works pretty good…............Jim

-- Jim Jakosh.....Practical Wood Products...........Learn something new every day!! Variety is the Spice of Life!!

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lanwater

3083 posts in 1589 days


#26 posted 12-09-2011 06:28 AM

I only have a powermatic 14” so I can’t be of much help.
The stock fence is lousy at best.
Thanks to your post, I know now that I have many more choices than I thought.

-- Abbas, Castro Valley, CA

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Bertha

12951 posts in 1348 days


#27 posted 12-09-2011 03:11 PM

Loren, I’m told by the Carter people (who are very helpful) that this one is the one:
http://www.carterproducts.com/product.asp?product_id=79&cat_id=13
My saw is an A/B, like I think yours is:

Here’s the kit:

Delta 20” A/B

The Delta 20 A/B kit is for older model band saws that have guides that mount perpendicular to the blade (See the “Kit Selector” below to determine which kit you will need). This all bearing kit uses our model 500 roller bearing guides to promote cooler running and longer blade life. The rugged 500 guides are perfect for general work and resawing. Extra wide conversion kit available to allow use of blade sizes from 1/2” to 1 1/4” See parts section.

Specifications
Item Number DEL20AB

Machine Size 20” Delta older style mounts

Included in Kit 1- 500-3 and 1-500-32 Guidall guide with an A-14 upper and custom designed lower mounting brackets

Blade Size 3/16” to 3/4”

FPM 5,000

Thrust Wheel Size 1 3/16”

Price $224.00

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Bertha

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#28 posted 12-09-2011 03:12 PM

I think you guys have convinced me to build one. I can spend the couple hundred bucks on something else. $200 buys a lot of t-track, lol.
Any LJ links to some really nice ones would be greatly appreciated.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Bertha

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#29 posted 12-09-2011 04:06 PM

^scratch that. It’s already been ordered. I’m in the doghouse.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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superstretch

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#30 posted 12-09-2011 04:09 PM

sheesh.. want to adopt me? You could buy another bandsaw for that money D:

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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Bertha

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#31 posted 12-09-2011 04:43 PM

^I don’t know, Stretch…$200 for a resaw fence + $225 for guides = $425. That don’t buy you much bandsaw where Ima from;)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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superstretch

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#32 posted 12-09-2011 04:45 PM

I got my 16” Grizz for 250..

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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Bertha

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#33 posted 12-09-2011 05:02 PM

Wow! I never see that around here. However, I can get used farm equipment for a steal;)

Well, that’s not totally true. I found these machines for a bargain basement $55,000, lol
http://charlestonwv.craigslist.org/tls/2675332933.html

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Bertha

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#34 posted 12-18-2011 10:52 PM

I figured out at least part/all of my problems. I completely disassembled the guides and sandblasted/wire brushed the parts. I had a lower thrust bearing that was totally shot. Although everything looked OK, on closer examination, there were some serious issues. I’ll post some pics in case anyone else ever needs to work on this particular saw.

Here’s the before on the lower guides:

Take a look at that thrust bearing! I just couldn’t see it before. There are deep gouges that involve and bind the bearings.

Here’s about mid-way through:

Here’s the after without the new bearings in. I didn’t get ceramic but I got sealed 6203’s from VBX. You can see that the blade isn’t installed yet.

I refurbed the top guides while I was at it.

I also completely disassembled the tension and tracking mechanisms. The springs looked good, so I just replaced the top bearing and oiled everything up.

I’ve got Carter guides on the way and all the goodies to build my fence. Once I start resawing, I’ll post more.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Bertha

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#35 posted 12-20-2011 03:06 PM

Popped in the new bearings from McMaster Carr. I’ve got another set coming from VBX in anticipation of these not fitting, lol. I’m so impressed with the speed of McMaster Carr’s shipping. Bearings are 6203’s.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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MedicKen

1599 posts in 2117 days


#36 posted 12-20-2011 03:12 PM

Find an old unisaw fence with the tube rails. Same fence

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

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Bertha

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#37 posted 12-20-2011 03:46 PM

No kidding, Ken? That’s a great idea!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-Unisaw-Jetlock-fence-system-/130617116118?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e696305d6

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Clouseau

34 posts in 1687 days


#38 posted 12-20-2011 05:34 PM

The refurbishing of your guides is the best thing you could have done. You might also check the condition of the tires. They need to be smooth and crowned. You can find good instructions on varying methods of crowning on OWWM.org and OWWM.com. Both schools I taught at had 20” Deltas and we resawed all of the time. All we used was the factory fence with a 6” piece of plywood screwed to it. The old Jetlock fence is a good fence that can be adjusted for drift, but you might have to shorten the length. You could always just c-clamp the outboard end for resawing. If you could find a fence that does not require sliding on the tube from the end it would be a little more user friendly. There are plenty of old juck Cman TS fences available, but you would defintely need to clamp the outboard end.
I seldom resaw with my 14” Delta at home, but have using just an old front-only mounted fence from an old Shop Master table saw. I have the Delta factory fence on the bandsaw in the shop in the country and haven’t seen much of an advantage. I regularly use my bandsaws for ripping small parts and segments with very acceptable accuracy.
You might try Accurate Bearing for fast service at a very good price.

-- Dan Coleman, retired Welding Inspector and past IA Teacher

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Bertha

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#39 posted 12-20-2011 09:09 PM

Thanks Dan! That’s really helpful. I’m embarrassed that I ordered Carters before I even inspected my existing equipment. It seemed so…”restored”...with it’s grey paint and all, lol. I blasted off all the paint, gave it a good soaking in PB blaster and Seafoam, then lubed it up good. The new bearings fit perfectly. I do have new tires, belts, and wheel bearings but there’s one last thing I have to do. In the lower cabinet, where the blade leaves the lower guides downward, there’s a little tab of what looks like aluminum near the dust shroud. The existing one is all eaten up and at lower tensions, contacts the blade. I popped it off and now I’m going to fashion one out of UHMW plastic. I’ll let you know how it goes and take some pics.
.
Regarding the fence, I’ve ordered all the stuff to make my own but with Ken’s advice, I might try to pick up a Delta tube system if I can find one on Fleabay for a good price. I plan to build a simple fence like you describe that clamps to the table, rather than using the mounting holes. I bought a pair of those little Rockler l-shaped clamps (the ones with the round post). I’m going to run a t-track along the fence face and clad the rest in UHMW plastic. I bought a 7” Kreg resaw guide that I’ll ride in the t-track. I’ll pop it off if I want to use the tall fence. With a 1” blade, I have no appreciable drift…but it always felt like the motor was laboring (at 240V). Now it all makes sense…the poor blade was tracking within a groove on the non-turning lower thrust bearing. It never stood a chance! I’m just glad I didn’t burn my motor up.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Bertha

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#40 posted 12-21-2011 03:16 AM

Happy update. I got the saw back up and running; much improved. I had to fabricate that pesky part I mentioned earlier:

I made it double-sided so I won’t have to go through the process in the future. The aluminum stock is from McMaster. This thing has whipped me, so I didn’t have the nerve to clean the dust shroud. The receiver for the bolt isn’t threaded so it took some acrobatics to get fastened.

I tweaked everything into place:

What a headache. Is it worth it? Ohhhh Yeahhhhh!

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Clouseau

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#41 posted 12-21-2011 04:14 AM

What was it Grandpa used to say? “Don’t pull the engine out of the car without checking the gas tank.”

Glad it has worked out better. You actually have the better of the two factory, non-bearing type guides. For wood, I think they are just about as good as full bearing guides. Did you dress the faces of the blocks on the belt sander or grinder?

-- Dan Coleman, retired Welding Inspector and past IA Teacher

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Bertha

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#42 posted 12-21-2011 03:02 PM

Thanks, Dan. The lower guide operation is relatively intuitive; however the top guide double-nut thingy took some getting used to. Good eye on the guides; I ordered a set of ceramic ones but having cleaned these up, I’m not sure I’ll bother for now. I simply flipped the guides (blocks), showing what looks like an unused face. I still buffed it up to around 600 grit on the scary sharp.
.
It’s running a lot better but it still feels like the motor is laboring a bit in the cut. Blade is new. Belts are new but they’re not especially high quality belts. Perhaps I should try a linkbelt. I’d prefer not to have to swap the motor but I really love this saw. If it’s gotta be, it’s gotta be. I’m not sure what I’d drop in it, but it doesn’t look like too difficult a procedure.
.
Is it possible to be losing power somewhere along the wiring? I’m novice and wired the 220 myself. Would this saw run at 110 if it’s only getting one arm? It SOUNDS like an animal but slows in the cut.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Clouseau

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#43 posted 12-21-2011 04:13 PM

Be sure to check your wiring. Lack of power is sometimes a wiring problem, ususally with running on 110 with wiring on 220. Both 20” saws I’ve used had plenty of power, but they were 3 phase and probably had larger hp motors.

You should not need link belts, but cogged belts would probably help.

-- Dan Coleman, retired Welding Inspector and past IA Teacher

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Bertha

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#44 posted 12-21-2011 04:27 PM

Dan, I’ll check my wiring. Mine is 1Ph 220 with the stock motor. The saw’s got me frustrated enough to drop a big motor in it. I’d hate to put a new motor in it, only to find that my wiring was bad. In fact, I KNOW that my wiring is “bad” in terms of being color-coded wrong. I just continued the bad color scheme when I added the long 220 cord. I’m confused by everthing that happens once the power reaches the saw. It’s got a big SquareD box that I don’t understand and a magnetic switch I’d rather not fool with. I’ll see what I can do!

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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superstretch

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#45 posted 12-21-2011 04:35 PM

Bertha- got a purse you could hit it with? You must have one handy..

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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Bertha

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#46 posted 12-21-2011 04:35 PM

^lol Dan. Maybe I can borrow your fannypack and whack it with it;)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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superstretch

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#47 posted 12-21-2011 04:37 PM

Lol touche … Hazard of being a homeschooled homie

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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Bertha

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#48 posted 01-23-2012 04:42 PM

OK, I assembled most of the ingredients to make my own fence.
I’ll bolt the base of the fence to the table using those Rockler thingies:
.

.
I’m going to embed two of those INCR Plus tracks into the base (perpendicular to the blade axis) to allow a sliding “L-shaped” fence to advance to and from the blade. I figured the scales on the “plus” versions would do nicely to square it up.
.
For the face, I’m using a ShopFox track partially dadoed into the face and sheathing it flush with UHMW plastic.
.


.
I figure this way, if I don’t want to use the Kreg curved fence, I can just slide it off. More to come.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Bertha

12951 posts in 1348 days


#49 posted 01-29-2012 03:22 AM

Finished the fence:
.

.
I used Rockwell L-brackets and the existing table holes to anchor the fence. It slides in an INCRA track and has stops if I choose to use them.
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It’s hard to photograph but it’ll take some paper thin cuts
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-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Clouseau

34 posts in 1687 days


#50 posted 01-29-2012 03:32 AM

Good imaginative use of the fence clamps. Did you get your wiring sorted out?
Dan Coleman

-- Dan Coleman, retired Welding Inspector and past IA Teacher

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