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Work bench smack down

by Newage Neanderthal
posted 11-04-2011 09:18 PM


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View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1851 posted 10-05-2012 04:28 PM

I wanted to share some pictures I dug up from my trip to Colombia the Christmas before last. I was at my friend’s parent’s finca (country/weekend home) and saw this great bench being used as a console behind the sofa. I think his mom bought it directly from the craftsman.

Leg vise. Notice the parallel guide. I didn’t even comprehend what I was looking at back then. It’s the rod/friction type.

Shelf boards nailed in.

The planing stop:

It looks like a French style bench. I wish I know more about the Spanish woodworking traditions. I may need to hit up some of our lumberjocks in Spain to learn more.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View AnthonyReed's profile

AnthonyReed

5087 posts in 1191 days


#1852 posted 10-06-2012 03:05 AM

Even with the cone shaped hones they give me the shivers thinking about sharpening them. If they don’t pan out you are more than capable enough to make the square holes by hand Scott. I am sure if you tried it that they would be a non-issue for you now.

That is a great bench Mauricio. Is that dead man stationary or adjustable.

-- ~Tony

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1853 posted 10-06-2012 02:17 PM

You know I didnt play with it. It doesnt look like it.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1444 days


#1854 posted 10-07-2012 12:53 AM

Throat punch, Mauricio. This one gets an easy pass b/c there are kids turning the screw. That bench clearly is loving being used again. It’s so incredibly beautiful. Check out that friggin plane stop!
.
Thank you so much for posting these pictures; it made my night.
.
Now…
.
Onto Lysdexic, that brought tears to my eyes, as well. Reading the books and grabbing your stones is the hard part. I think it looks gorgeous. You can even see some stripe coming out. Cherry blotch is just more character, if it even occurs. It just keeps getting better. It’s my standard now, which is a problem.
.
I don’t want to include my mind among the good ones that think alike, but if I can do it with a brace, I’ll do it with a brace. If you’re ever looking for a vintage bit, check with me before you buy one. I went on a fleabag tear for about a year and I have just about everything.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1855 posted 10-07-2012 11:57 PM

Not worthy of a complete blog entry but I finished the finish on the under carriage

3:2:1 wet sanded with 400 grit
4 coats of 2:1 mineral spirits to poly with 800 grit scuff sanding
2 coats of johnson paste wax
The back side of the chop was not sanded in anticipation of gluing on the leather.

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

View Boatman53's profile

Boatman53

848 posts in 948 days


#1856 posted 10-08-2012 12:48 AM

That is fabulous Scott.

-- Jim, Long Island, NY Ancorayachtservice.com home of the chain leg vise

View ksSlim's profile (online now)

ksSlim

1011 posts in 1641 days


#1857 posted 10-08-2012 12:54 AM

Very nice Scott!

-- Sawdust and shavings are therapeutic

View AnthonyReed's profile

AnthonyReed

5087 posts in 1191 days


#1858 posted 10-08-2012 03:13 AM

Wow! So friggin’ nice.

-- ~Tony

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

185 posts in 2720 days


#1859 posted 10-08-2012 03:25 AM

Hi Lysdexic

That looks incredibly solid and well made! It is coming along fantastically. I am looking forward to its continuing build.

I am curious how much play you get in the screw, and how much play others get in their metal and wood screws. I have a wood screw and there was sufficient play to affect the work holding (it was not holding evenly at the chop, so more pressure was required). I came up with a simple fix (works with minimal pressure now), and am happy to share it if there is interest. Otherwise will not sidetrack the discussion.

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1860 posted 10-08-2012 03:40 AM

Thanks fellas.

Derek, it is a hard for me to say how much play I have as I have yet to fully, fully assemble the bench and put it though it’s paces. That said, when I screw and unscrew the chop there is plenty of wobble. It am not sure if that is good or bad. Also, from what little I have used it, I will admit that I am a little disappointed. It does hold as well as my 8”Jorgensen with wooden jaws. I planed out a slight convexity on the chop clamping surface and toed in by adjusting the chain drive. This helped alot but I’ve not used it since. It has been disassembled for finishing.

I am quite interested in your “fix”.

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

View Brit's profile

Brit

5310 posts in 1594 days


#1861 posted 10-08-2012 04:26 AM

Scot – When I get to build mine, I’m going to hire you as a consultant. Looks fantastic.

-- Andy -- Old Chinese proverb say: If you think something can't be done, don't interrupt man who is doing it.

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

185 posts in 2720 days


#1862 posted 10-08-2012 10:31 AM

Hi Lysdexic

All vises have a little play/slop in the screw. This is normal. If there was none then the screw would bind.

Play is a double edged sword – play in a leg vise is desirable when clamping out-of-square pieces. However, play also then favours one side of the chop over the other, and greater cranking force is required to keep the piece from tipping.

My leg vise uses a wooden screw and has a little play. How much is acceptable? I was very careful when building the leg vise. Indeed, for those who followed my build, they have seen pictures of the installation (twice – the second when I added the chain adjuster). Everything was square, square, square … and solid. When it was new the chop would clamp down squarely and hold with just a little force. As it wore in, the play seemed to increase a little, and then the chop began to reveal more clamping strength on one side. In my case there seemed to be less holding power on the “outfeed” side of the vise (the left of the vise in the picture below), which may have occurred as a result of planing edges (i.e. that is where the plane ends and greater downforce is created).

There is nothing worse than the board twisting and dropping down as you plane. Damaging to yourself and the edge being planed.

I imagine that the play in a high quality ACME metal screw, such as from LN or BenchCrafted, would have the least play. A wooden screw is less precise. I imagine that others experience the same as I do. I’d like to hear if this affects you to. If you are unhappy with this issue, then there is a simple fix.

The problem is not simply the screw, but also the parallel guide. They work together. The parallel guide must also have a tad leeway to avoid it binding in the leg mortice. Even 1mm of leeway will translate into 1mm of play in the screw, and from there to the chop. The aim is to get – and hold – everything perfectly square, in such a way that the pressure across the chop is equal, and stays that way.

The fix is at the parallel guide. The parallel guide requires a guide to keep it tracking squarely.

My solution was to groove a section of hardwood that the guide could run through, and add in adjustability so that the exact support could be dialled in.

Your set up would look like this in principle, but may vary according to the way your leg vise and parallel guide are designed. (Note that the groove/mortice in mine is not centred – not to worry. In my case this does not matter. I was testing out the idea, but it worked so well that I have left it as is).

Simply slide under (as in my case) the parallel guide. If you cannot do this, just consider make a fence that bolts from both sides.

Adjust for squareness, and you will find that the amount of force to clamp work decreases significantly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1863 posted 10-08-2012 08:37 PM

Scott, it looks spectacular! Not much left to go now. I heard somewhere where someone used double stick carpet tape to attach the leather instead of contact cement. I think I may try that before messy cement. Worth a shot.

Derek, thanks for your advice on the parallel guide. I’ll have to digest it and see how I can apply it to my situation. I’m planning on using a 2” wooden screw for the vise as well as the parallel guide. I wonder if the spinning nut on the guide would do the job of keeping things square while clamping pressure is being applied. The guide will be a 2” wooden screw passing through a 2 1/8” whole. I could always place shims between the nut and the leg if fine adjustment is needed.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View WhoMe's profile

WhoMe

1127 posts in 1995 days


#1864 posted 10-09-2012 12:28 AM

Whew… FINALLY got through all 38 pages of this thread. Man, all you guys are awesome. And quite talented too.
Scott, The bench is looking beautiful. Thanks for the PM with all the info. BUT, mine will be a LEFTY bench….

I do have a couple of questions. Many of the benches are quite long. I have limited space in my garage for a bench (that will have to be mobile too) and in looking at many of the Rubo style benches, there is quite a bit of overhang on the tail vise side. Anyone know what the reasoning for that is? Has anyone seen a minimal amount of overhang where some of the tail vise workings actually are over the leg structure?
Also, there has been a lot of talk/beautiful examples of the leg vises. I know there has to be advantages/disadvantages between the leg vise and say a twin screw style vise as a option. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Thanks and keep up the great thread. One of these days I hope to show my work/progress/bench in this thread.

-- I'm not clumsy.. It's just the floor hates me, the tables and chairs are bullies and the wall gets in the way.. - Mike -

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1444 days


#1865 posted 10-14-2012 01:10 PM

I just stole a whole bunch of stuff from Derek. Derek, did you put a little dome (convexity) on that parallel guide guide (not sure what to call that) to minimize the surface area contact? I’ve got two Lake Eerie screws just sitting dormant. I’m embarrassed by that.
.
Lysdexic, I love the contrasting stretchers. I also admire your BSA sticker on your truck’s bumper. Strong work putting it on crooked. I know it bugs you every time you look at it;) However, possibly the kiddo applied it, in which case, you probably smile every time you look at it:)
.
It looks like the chain is the standard now. First time seeing it with a wooden screw. There may be hope for this World.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1866 posted 10-15-2012 04:36 AM

Some random Sunday workbench pics.

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1867 posted 10-15-2012 04:46 AM

Nice! Did you flatten the top by hand?

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1868 posted 10-15-2012 04:54 AM

The top is not flat yet. I need to finish the gap stop. Then I will put a finish on the bottom and sides of the slabs. Then I’ll turn them over a bolt them down one last time. Then, I am going to give flattening by hand a try. Finally, the very top surface will get a coat of finish.

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

View Boatman53's profile

Boatman53

848 posts in 948 days


#1869 posted 10-15-2012 11:26 AM

Hi Scott, I do hope you are proud of yourself. Dang but you raised the bar quite high for a Roubo bench. That is one nice looking bench.

-- Jim, Long Island, NY Ancorayachtservice.com home of the chain leg vise

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carguy460

783 posts in 1087 days


#1870 posted 10-15-2012 12:40 PM

lysdexic – I’ve read your blog quite a few times but I can’t seem to remember…what are the leg dimensions on your bench? I like the beefy legs (that could be taken wrong, don’t tell my wife), and I’m trying to get my bench sorted out on paper…I was thinking with a 4” thick top, perhaps a 6”x6” set of legs? Is that close to what you’ve got going there?

-- Jason K

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1871 posted 10-15-2012 12:49 PM

Jason, how long will your bench be?

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View carguy460's profile

carguy460

783 posts in 1087 days


#1872 posted 10-15-2012 01:01 PM

Around 8 ft or so…I’ll be using cheap dimensional lumber for this one as I’m not very skilled and don’t want ruin high dollar hardwood!

-- Jason K

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1873 posted 10-15-2012 01:04 PM

That will be sweet Jason, you’ll probably want legs that are around 6”x6” or at least 6” wide for it to look right proportionaly.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1874 posted 10-15-2012 01:05 PM

Jason, do you have the wood yet? If you look around I bet you can find a dealer that wil sell you 4×4 and 6×6 SYP. I found one here in atlanta but ended up going another rout.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1875 posted 10-15-2012 01:06 PM

I called my usual lumber dealer and when they didnt have it they referred me to someone who did. And, it was surprisingly cheap.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View carguy460's profile

carguy460

783 posts in 1087 days


#1876 posted 10-15-2012 01:09 PM

I’m woodless at the moment. I haven’t had any luck finding SYP up here in NW Missouri. I thought about the 4×4 and 6×6 option, but everything I find is pressure treated, which I don’t really want. I was probably going to go the 2×8 and 2×6 route, resawing the 2×8’s for the top….am I way off here?

-- Jason K

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1877 posted 10-15-2012 01:17 PM

Its the same here. HD & Lowes only sell pressure treated posts.
The glue ups are definitely an option but make some phone calls first to lumber dealers, if they don’t have it ask who does. In my case they knew where to send me. It will save you SO MUCH time if you are able to find it.

Imagine making your top out of 3pieces of wood and your legs just 1 piece. The advantage to gluing up pieces is you can take extra time to make it all straight grained, quarter sawn and rift sawn which looks much better and more stable IMHO.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1878 posted 10-15-2012 01:28 PM

Jason my legs ended up being 5 1/2” x 5 3/8”.

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

View carguy460's profile

carguy460

783 posts in 1087 days


#1879 posted 10-15-2012 01:35 PM

Thanks for the insight Mauricio – I’ll check around and maybe get lucky!

Thanks lysdexic…I figured it was in the 5-6” arena. Your bench looks very well proportioned to my eye.

-- Jason K

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1880 posted 10-15-2012 01:39 PM

Aint nothing wrong with Scotts bench!

I love workbench talk, makes me smile every time I see the notification that there is a comment on this thread. ;-)

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

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carguy460

783 posts in 1087 days


#1881 posted 10-15-2012 01:40 PM

Mauricio – what are the leg dimensions on your splayed leg bench?

-- Jason K

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1882 posted 10-15-2012 01:43 PM

Mine are about 5.5” x 3.5” but my bench is 6’ long. Works for me, I have a 8’ osb and 2×4 bench now and 2’ of it is always covered with crap that doesn’t have a spot. So effectively its only 6’ and it works.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1883 posted 10-15-2012 01:45 PM

You know if I were to make a new bench, say for a friend, I would strongly advise them to go with 6×6 SYP posts. OMG, that would simplify things. You would definitely need help during the milling process though.

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1884 posted 10-15-2012 01:53 PM

I’m thinking an 8/4 Leg vise chop looks a little on the skinny side. I’m thinking of laminating 2 8/4 walnut boards. Maby just go to 3” thick?

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1885 posted 10-15-2012 02:02 PM

Mauricio, I consider my leg vise absurdly thick and I think it is 8/4”. I check this evening. It is a laminate however.

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1886 posted 10-15-2012 02:06 PM

Well, I take that back. I think I starte3d with 2 6/4 boards 9” wide. By the time they were milled and laminated it was 10/4 thick.

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1887 posted 10-15-2012 02:14 PM

I like the way yours looks, also the shapping makes it look lighter.

I like the look of some of these antique chops.


-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View bhog's profile

bhog

2177 posts in 1441 days


#1888 posted 10-15-2012 02:14 PM

Guys ,you should be able to go to your local lumberyard (where a reputable builder would go) and get SYP.I could not imagine building anything decent with the lumber I have seen at my local lowes.

-- I don't drive a Prius.

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1889 posted 10-15-2012 02:14 PM

well that last one is a childs bench so not the best example.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1890 posted 10-15-2012 02:28 PM

This is what I found in Atlanta:

randall brothers 888-711-7971
4”x6”x15’ syp $16.52
6”x6”x8’ $14.44

I never went to check it out in person but those prices are dirt cheap!

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View Boatman53's profile

Boatman53

848 posts in 948 days


#1891 posted 10-15-2012 02:30 PM

For what it is worth the legs on my little bench are 3×5”. The chop is 5” wide and a full 2” thick. Just another consideration a thicker chop will use up some screw length, so if the screw is a short one like the new LN or it looks like the BenchCrafted is pretty short too, it is that much less usable clamping distance. It may not matter for some people’s work but it was an important consideration to me.

-- Jim, Long Island, NY Ancorayachtservice.com home of the chain leg vise

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1892 posted 10-15-2012 02:49 PM

Good point Jim, I should have a pretty long screw since I’m making my own (fingers crossed).... Worked on a new thread cutting jig last night.

Also that bevel at the top becomes more important for sawing small pieces and the whole thing sticks out further which kind of gets in the way when planning.

By the way how DO you spell Planning, the actual using of a hand plane? Is it planing, planning, planeing? Spell checker doesnt now what I’m trying to say!

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View Brit's profile

Brit

5310 posts in 1594 days


#1893 posted 10-15-2012 02:59 PM

One ‘n’

-- Andy -- Old Chinese proverb say: If you think something can't be done, don't interrupt man who is doing it.

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1894 posted 10-15-2012 03:03 PM

One ‘n’ no e? Thanks! I’ll add it to my dictionary.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1895 posted 10-15-2012 03:04 PM

planing

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1896 posted 10-15-2012 04:05 PM

Can we talk plane stops?

As I was working on my gap stop I realized I need to come up with a strategy for a plane stop. At 8 feet it obvious exceeded my capacity. I ended up clamping a board to the end but the metal part of the clamp stuck up above the work piece – not good.

Jim, if I remember correctly, don’t you have a slotted plane stop bolted to the end grain?

Tolpin put one of these on his bench.

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

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AnthonyReed

5087 posts in 1191 days


#1897 posted 10-15-2012 04:19 PM

^ that is a bench hook for sawing, no?

-- ~Tony

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1903 days


#1898 posted 10-15-2012 04:23 PM

Yeah thats for sawing. Jim has a couple of rectangular once morticed into the top. The advantage is that you can hold any thickness of board. I like the one Jim Toplin makes in the New Traditional Woodworker that is a thin board with a cleat that clamps in the vise. The only problem will be if you have a thinner board to plane.

I saved the link to Boatman’s bench pics. Check them out.
http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/workbench/?action=view&current=6b66922b.jpg

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View Boatman53's profile

Boatman53

848 posts in 948 days


#1899 posted 10-15-2012 04:33 PM

Thanks Mauricio, you beat me to them. Actually I transferred one photo, went back for another and my post disappeared. It is nice having the stops set in from the end of the bench so the vise does not get in the way. If the planing stop was at the end of the bench and the board was say two feet long the vise would force me to stand further away from the bench/work. I also have a row of dog holes at the back edge of the solid top so I can capture a board for diagonal planing.

-- Jim, Long Island, NY Ancorayachtservice.com home of the chain leg vise

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lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#1900 posted 10-15-2012 04:57 PM

Thats right Tony. It is for sawing – I forgot. Yet I was thinking along those lines for a planing stop but I doubt its durability.

The appliance that you clamp in to the vise sacrificies a lot of real estate. Plus it is just another thing to store.

Jim, your solution is wonderful but I would imagine a challenge to retrofit.

I guess I am looking for a solution for planing long boards in the 6 foot range.

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

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