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View agallant's profile

Saw Stop Rant.

by agallant
posted 10-17-2011 04:29 PM


1 2 next »
55 replies

55 replies so far

View Firefighter's profile

Firefighter

95 posts in 1529 days


#1 posted 10-17-2011 04:39 PM

I like the idea but probably not enough to spend the money on one. Why did you buy it?

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#2 posted 10-17-2011 04:43 PM

I bought it because I got bit by my last TS, I got lucky but it made me start thinkgin about time lost from work and health care expences if I did have a good accadent on the TS. Also my wife uses it from time to time and she has not spent allot of time around power tools. I still like it but god, these people are going to go out of business once PM, Delta, Grizzley ect have a blade break.

View Woodmaster1's profile

Woodmaster1

541 posts in 1342 days


#3 posted 10-17-2011 05:06 PM

I bought a sawstop pcs for school good saw, $2900 with everything. I bought bought a 5hp delta for myself with mobile base for $2700 with the rebate included. There are a few things I like about both and things I dislike about both. I like the delta unisaw the best.

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#4 posted 10-17-2011 05:13 PM

Can you tell me what you like better and what you don’t like?

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1823 days


#5 posted 10-17-2011 05:29 PM

Help me understand the reason(s) for your rant. Surely you checked the prices for the whole package before you laid your money on the table. You chose the upgrades, and if you found their prices that objectionable, why did you buy them? Did someone hold a gun on you?

It’s common knowledge that Sawstop is the only game in town with that technology right now. If you feel that you need it (or just want it), you have to pay the piper.

I wouldn’t bet on Sawstop going out of business any time soon. They own the patent on that technology and any competing technology will certainly have to go thru patent infringement litigation. If their technology actually gets mandated by law, the other manufacturers will probably obtain licenses for it – and pass the cost on to the customers.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8476 posts in 2403 days


#6 posted 10-17-2011 05:43 PM

Sometimes the grass looks greener on the other side.

now lets put things into perspective. you bought a contractor saw which comes with the lower-end accessories (tables, fence, DC, etc) to make it ‘affordable’ SS option.

to compare apples with apples, a Delta cast iron extension table is also $200:
http://www.toolmarts.com/del_36-937.html

As well as any branded mobile base ($200 for this delta):
http://www.amazon.com/50-289-Mobile-Machine-52-Inch-Unifence/dp/B000022346/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1318865993&sr=1-7

but you didn’t buy the saw for the accessories did you? you bought it for the saw break technology, and that is part of the expense and was a known issue from the get go. sucks that you have been having regrets ever since you bought your saw. sounds like you never really fully understood the reason you bought it for to me. I think if you really understood the reason and accepted it you wouldn’t have so many regrets.

good luck.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View Knothead62's profile

Knothead62

2364 posts in 1716 days


#7 posted 10-17-2011 06:10 PM

A patent runs out after a period of time. Or you can change the technology enough to qualify for a new patent without infringing on the original patent.

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#8 posted 10-17-2011 08:06 PM

You are right, I knew what I was getting in to when I bought it. I just think that for a saw that is around 2K out the door, the saw it’s self is not a good value, the value lies with the break. Honestly the saw is a $1,000 saw, if that. Every saw I have seen at that price point has castiron wings. You are paying a $1,000 preamuim for the break. I have had the saw for about a year, I think I need to write an honest review of it instead of a ‘I just got my new toy and love it’ kind of review.

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1860 posts in 2316 days


#9 posted 10-17-2011 08:13 PM

Buyer Beware, and Buyer be aware

-- Joe

View DS's profile

DS

2132 posts in 1175 days


#10 posted 10-17-2011 08:14 PM

I suppose that’s what happens when a safety device company builds a saw instead of a saw company building a safety device.

Do you suppose if some of the high-end saw makers build thier own safety devices they will be mediocre when compared to the saw stop safety device?

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1448 days


#11 posted 10-17-2011 08:17 PM

Agallant, all I can say is never buy a new Porsche. “Oh, you wanted seats?” Gives new meaning to ala carte.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View semi75's profile

semi75

78 posts in 1655 days


#12 posted 10-17-2011 08:29 PM

I see Agallant’s point, which is the main reason I haven’t bought a SawStop. The price on the PCS isn’t cheap we all know, but outfitting a SS contractor saw the way most of us would want it pushes the price way to close to the PCS. It seems rather absurd to me. I think SS really missed the pricemark with the contractor saw. The saw equipped as he described should be in the $1,600 range TOPS, not $2,200. I thought about picking up the contractor model a couple of years ago but couldn’t justify it.

View ShaneA's profile

ShaneA

5456 posts in 1353 days


#13 posted 10-17-2011 08:32 PM

I have a gently used ridgid ts 3650 I would be willing to trade you, even up? I think the value in these saws is that you should have as many fingers at the end of the day, as you started with. There is an inherent value there. As many have said before, its cheaper than trying to re-attach a digit.

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1823 days


#14 posted 10-17-2011 08:41 PM

Knothead –
You’re right that patents eventually expire; and that infringement can be avoided by making enough change.

However, patents run for several years (17 IIRC), and patents applications are usually so broadly written that it can be difficult to avoid infringement. The cost of proving non-infringement can be extremely high, and take years.

Semi -
Do you have information that can prove that that saw shouldn’t cost more than $1,600? Please share it.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View Greg..the Cajun Wood Artist's profile

Greg..the Cajun Wood Artist

5284 posts in 2063 days


#15 posted 10-17-2011 08:44 PM

Just curious….How many Lumberjocks reading this have cut yourself on your table saw? It obviously can happen to anyone but who here has it happened to?

-- Each step of every Wood Art project I design and build is considered my masterpiece… because I want the finished product to reflect the quality and creativeness of my work

View Woodmaster1's profile

Woodmaster1

541 posts in 1342 days


#16 posted 10-17-2011 08:44 PM

The safety guard on sawstop is thin plastic and the legs on the extension table are light duty. The things I like mobile base, safety bake, the fence is better than the delta. The thing I dislike on the delta is the fence, I had to shave some off the bottom so it would glide across the saw without getting caught in the miter slot. I like delta’s power, table, the extension table legs are heavy duty, mobile base, controls up front. Both of the saw’s were easy to assemble.

View Furnitude's profile

Furnitude

346 posts in 2262 days


#17 posted 10-17-2011 08:59 PM

I think it’s important to remember that SawStop is a small company compared to the enormous Delta/Porter Cable guys. SawStop has nowhere near the benefits the larger companies have in terms of scale. If you could come up with a way to make products and accessories at a high level of quality for cheaper, I’m sure SawStop would love to hear from you.

-- Mitch, http://furnitude.blogspot.com Also blog at http://www.craftsy.com/blog/author/mitch-roberson/

View Dan's profile

Dan

3543 posts in 1635 days


#18 posted 10-17-2011 09:01 PM

I have a Delta contractors table saw that I bought used for 200.00. Thats less then most of the upgrades you listed…. Thats why I always try and buy used..

For safety I just keep my fingers away from the blade… If anything is going to hurt me its going to be kickback.

-- Dan - "Collector of Hand Planes"

View Fuzzy's profile

Fuzzy

293 posts in 2743 days


#19 posted 10-17-2011 09:14 PM

I don’t think the SAWSTOP’s pricing is unreasonable at all … expensive, YES … unreasonable, NO. Like many things these days, you are not paying a premium for what it IS … but for what it DOES.

I doubt many (if ANY) here have a background in metallurgy sufficient to declare the cast iron of one saw is better/worse than another … or determine bearings or internal components to vary to a significant degree between brands … or to quantify that table legs are better/worse for their given task … I mean, if the legs sufficiently support the table, what more do you demand of them … if SAWSTOP’s legs are holding up the table … what’s the gripe ???

My reasoning is simple … if I am in the market for a tool … I do as much research as I can … even if I read some negative comments about the tool and/or the manufacturer, I tend to let the tool speak for itself. If I buy a router that has a unique ability to satisfy a special need, and the reviews say that the speed control has a tendency to fail prematurely, I weigh all of the options and make my decision. I don’t let a POTENTIAL NEGATIVE experience get in the way of what I know will be an ABSOLUTE POSITIVE one.

I have used SAWSTOPS and, I personally like them … a lot. I hope to someday own one, and I could care less how it is marketed … as long as it is adequately supported and does it’s job … I will be a satisfied customer. Now, if the legs fall off or the castings are full of holes and the top has a really lousy finish and the paint is all chipped or defective/deficient, that is another matter. Knowing that I have a true riving knife that should all but eliminate kickbacks … AND I have the blade brake to protect me in the event I fail to use the knife or it fails to prevent the kickback in the first place, it lets me concentrate more on the task at hand, and not be so concerned with absolute techniques and “what if’s?”. I’m not saying one should ever be complacent in the use of ANY saw, but, it does allow your brain to shift priorities just a bit.

-- - dabbling in sarcasm is foolish … if you’re not proficient at it, you end up looking stupid … ... ...

View semi75's profile

semi75

78 posts in 1655 days


#20 posted 10-17-2011 09:24 PM

Sawkerf, My comments of what the contractor model price point is purely my opinion on how much I would be comfortable paying considering the benefits of Sawstop in comparison to other contractor saws. I just have a hard time seeing a contractor saw going for that kind of money but it is just my opinion, nothing else.

What I’m really curious about is what will happen with the CPSC and Sawstop but that is another topic.

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#21 posted 10-17-2011 09:26 PM

I just can’t help but feel that they are price gouging the market knowing they are the only game in town with a break.

View flippedcracker's profile

flippedcracker

91 posts in 1208 days


#22 posted 10-17-2011 11:54 PM

I don’t understand. you’ve had the saw for a year, and now you hate it because it was expensive. Obviously you thought it was worth the price when you bought, otherwise you probably wouldn’t have. Can you name one company that isn’t out the make money off their product?

Also, it’s brake.

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

2597 posts in 2497 days


#23 posted 10-18-2011 12:40 AM

Woodcraft:

POWERMATIC PM2000 10” Table Saw, Model 1792000K
Item #832671
$2,999.99

Delta UNISAW Tablesaw, 3 HP, with 52” BIESEMEYER Fence System, Model 36-L352
Item #842828
Save $300 with Mail-In Rebate now through December 31!
$3,299.99

General 350R/650R 10” RT or LT 3hp Table Saw 50” Fence
Returns: Not accepted Buy It Now $3,299.99 on EBAY with free shipping

3HP Sawstop PCS – 30 inch rail 2899, 52inch is 2999.

Seems to me that all 3 cost ~1 buck shy of 3 grand (delta is 300 dollars of till 12/31), Grizzly or JET are options, .

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

2993 posts in 1998 days


#24 posted 10-18-2011 12:49 AM

At 77, I still have all 10 digits. I think I can afford a finger or two. If I were just starting out, the SS might make more sense. The best insurance is to know your saw and it’s dangers and always stay focused around it. It’s the same thing with firearms. Both are potentially dangerous Know and respect both and you will prevail.

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#25 posted 10-18-2011 12:59 AM

Yeah mabey what I should have done was spend another $600 on the next sawstop up. Also for those quoting prices remember that Delta and PM do not need a $79 break to cut dados.

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1860 posts in 2316 days


#26 posted 10-18-2011 01:43 AM

@Woodmaster: ”The thing I dislike on the delta is the fence, I had to shave some off the bottom so it would glide across the saw without getting caught in the miter slot.”

Assuming that your saw has a T2 fence, the sides are adjustable. (Look inside the fence and you’ll see several hex nuts.) Loosen them and adjust to your hearts content.

-- Joe

View Woodmaster1's profile

Woodmaster1

541 posts in 1342 days


#27 posted 10-18-2011 01:57 AM

Thanks ajosephg I have not trimmed the fence yet. I just got it put together yesterday. I will try adjusting the board.

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ajosephg

1860 posts in 2316 days


#28 posted 10-18-2011 02:01 AM

Woodmaster – let me know if you have any questions. It’s been awhile, but I think there are three nuts on each side. Lay the fence on its back and you can see them. I don’t know why Delta chose not to include this in there set up instructions.

-- Joe

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Woodmaster1

541 posts in 1342 days


#29 posted 10-18-2011 03:11 AM

There are several screws on each side and the only way to get to them is through the laminate. Looks like I will be taking a little bit of the one side that hangs up. Thanks for the help.

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1860 posts in 2316 days


#30 posted 10-18-2011 03:17 AM

Hmmm My Delta T2 has no laminate. It’s all metal. Either Delta has redesigned the T2 or you have something else.

-- Joe

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#31 posted 10-18-2011 03:18 AM

@flippedcracker I have come to the conclusion that SS price gouges the market because they are the only one with the break. The saw is not worth $2,400 for just the saw and some upgrades. A comparable contractor saw would run you around $1,000. They are charging at least a $1,000 premium for the break. While worth it if you have an accident they are taking advantage of the situation.

I guess to sum it up the 3HPPCS SS is price competitive with the Unisaw and PM2000 so why is the contractor saw so much more than the other contractor saws out there. That is what I am bitching about. If the technology cost $1,000 than shouldn’t the 3HP PCS be $1,000 more than the Unisaw or PM2000?

They are charging more for the home market. I know someone will chime in with a business case, and that is fine it’s America and they can charge what they want; I understand that. I am just complaining because the folks who buy the PCS are getting the break for free while I am paying for it a bit up front and a bit more when I try to bring the saw up to other high end contractor saws by adding cast iron wings and what not. I don’t think it would have killed them to give a bit more value to the home consumer. The idea that a saw that cost me $2,200 out the door still needs upgrades to be on par with a Grizzly contractor saw is preposterous..

Sawstop Contractor $1,799
Outfeed Table $99
Cast Iron wings $189
Dado cargradge$79
Mobile Base $169
Total: $2,355
Sales Tax @5%: $116.25
Grand total : $2,471

$2,471 for a contractor saw with a break. I am just warning people out there you are not getting $2,471 worth of saw. You are getting about $1,000 worth of saw and $1,475 worth of break.

Am I the first SS owner to say something bad about it after the fact? Honestly I have heard so many stories about the break just going off over wet wood or a missed staple I turn it off if I think there is a chance of tripping the break negating my $1,475 break. I really wish that I bought a PM2000. There I said it. Saw Stop haters rejoice!

Well now that I think of it I wish I got the PCS because then I would be getting the break for free.

View Woodmaster1's profile

Woodmaster1

541 posts in 1342 days


#32 posted 10-18-2011 03:44 AM

It is a biesemeyer commercial fence that comes with the new unisaws.

View flippedcracker's profile

flippedcracker

91 posts in 1208 days


#33 posted 10-18-2011 04:08 AM

what i don’t get is that you’re complaining about the price after having the saw for a year already. has the saw performed for you? has it functionally lived up to what you would expect out of a table saw? I don’t see how you can hate a saw or a company based on a price that you were actually willing to pay at some point.

of course, i could understand buyer’s remorse. or wishing it was cheaper. but i don’t really understand a sudden hatred just because you saw some items for sale on a website. I bet if you ever do end up using the brake to save a finger, you won’t be complaining about the price.

also, it’s brake, not break.

View 747DRVR's profile

747DRVR

199 posts in 2112 days


#34 posted 10-18-2011 04:27 AM

You obviously didn’t do your homework before you bought.I also think the contractors saw is overpriced but the PCS is not.They say if you buy the best you can afford it only hurts once but obviously it has been hurting you everyday for a year.

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1823 days


#35 posted 10-18-2011 04:41 AM

You have GOT to be kidding!! You have two threads going as well as a “review” of a tool you bought a year ago. Since you knew at that time what you were buying and what it was going to cost you before you paid the bill, your statements on this forum are what are preposterous. You have no room to be bitching now. Buyers remorse is understandable, but after a year it’s a bit out of place. You really need to get over it.

In post #32, you claim that you got hosed so the buyers of the cabinet saw could get a break. Do you have ANY experience in manufacturing, or product pricing that would form a basis for that? Unless you do, your opinion is worthless.

Finally, would you PLEASE grab a dictionary and look up break and brake – they’re different.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#36 posted 10-18-2011 04:44 AM

@flippedcracker: Yes you are correct. I am complaning after having the saw for a year. It has not lived up to my expectations and it is clear to me that you are paying all of that extra money for the break not the saw which after living with it for a year I can say that I am dissipointed by the value of the saw. When I bought the saw I did my research, I was willing to part with the money because I thought that it would be worth it. Break aside I am saying after a year of owenership save your money for the PCS. I don’t hate the saw it still cuts wood and does it fairly well. You can call it buyers remorse if you like and I will agree with you on that. I stand by my opinion of it is not a good value. The extra money for the PCS is a better decision.

As for changing my mind after a year at least I can say that I have done that with a year of using the saw. Almost every review I see is someone reviewing their new toy that they just got. I was thrilled when I first got this saw now after a year of living with it I am less than thrilled.

As for doing homework before buying I went on the best information that I had, reviews on this site and others. If others still love their contractor after a year than good for them, I just wish that I spend the extra money on the PCS and this thread should be a warning to someone who is in a position to buy a contractor SS.

I don’t think I am the only person who bought something, then after living with it was less than thrilled. I can think of a few friends that bought the latest car (two in particularity one bought a mini and the other a VW bug) all of the reviews were great but after living with the car for some time they started to notice the short comings of it and wondered if their money could have been spent better on something else.

Is SawStop like Apple? I am starting to see a cult like following here…....

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#37 posted 10-18-2011 04:58 AM

I’m over it dude. I am just sharing my lesson. Its a table saw if I hate it that much ill go get another one. As for speling I guess we can add that to the list of things I suck at next to buying a table saw.

View tedth66's profile

tedth66

458 posts in 1945 days


#38 posted 10-18-2011 05:55 AM

agallant – you said, “it has not lived up to my expectations”.... what hasn’t it done for you? As an owner of the saw, I’m having a difficult time understanding what it’s NOT doing for you that you thought it would.

I love the saw and if I had to do it all over again, I’d still buy Sawstop.

I say sell the saw and invest that money into a saw that’ll do what the SS isn’t doing for you; whatever that is.

-- Ted

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 1317 days


#39 posted 10-18-2011 08:33 AM

agalllant, take tedth66’s advice and sell it. Think of it as a dry run for the one you’ll keep.

In the mean time, take a brake, half a beer or too, and come at it with a knew perspective in the mourning.

View tom427cid's profile

tom427cid

294 posts in 1226 days


#40 posted 10-18-2011 08:43 AM

Woodmaster;
I had the sticking problem with my Delta fence. I solved it by retrofitting a piece of 1 or 1 1/4” thin wall square tubing on the back side of the table(similar to a Vega set-up). Then I extended the fence support with a piece of 3/4” square tubing and I remounted the Delta glide on the 3/4” tubing to ride on the 1 or 1 1/4” tubing mounted on the saw. It’s been that way for 8-10 years now and occasionally I readjust(check for square and sliding) the fence.
tom

-- "certified sawdust maker"

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#41 posted 10-18-2011 02:58 PM

@tedth66
Things I don’t like:
1. For $2K I think it should come with cast iron wings. When I bought it I knew it had sheet metal wings after living with them for some time I hate them, they are flimsy, hard to clean if you get anything in them(due to sawstop being written in them causing all of these little valleys for things to collect in) So to correct that issus you can tack another $200 on to the price tag
2. Dust collection is OK, I had an issue where some dust built up on the screw that raises and lowers the blade. I was not able to lower the blade all of the way until I cleaned it out.
3. Outfeed table sucks. I spent $99 on it and it is small and cheap, I ended up building my own.
4. the outfeed table and table on the left are MDF and cheap MDF at that. I mean come on for 2K+ you can’t give me at least sheet metal.
5. I get allot of false reads on the break sensor and have to move the blade before the saw will start.

For $2,000+ for a contractor saw I was thinking I would get close to perfection. It’s not. It will be going on ebay when I get back from Germany in a few weeks. As for what to replace it with I don’t know. I am going back and forth between the PM2000 and the PCS. I really do like the idea of having a blade break, though after the amount of times I have turned it off for fear of accidentally tripping it I am wondering if it is really for me.

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1860 posts in 2316 days


#42 posted 10-18-2011 03:28 PM

@pierce85 – I love your post. “In the mean time, take a brake, half a beer or too, and come at it with a knew perspective in the mourning.”

@agallant – Anyone who doesn’t know the difference between “break” and “brake” probably shouldn’t be cutting wood with anything.

-- Joe

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#43 posted 10-18-2011 03:44 PM

And this is where the presumptuous American asshole image comes from. Perhaps you could assume that English is not my first language. Would it be so difficult to assume that on the internet everyone does not have English as a first language.

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ajosephg

1860 posts in 2316 days


#44 posted 10-18-2011 04:09 PM

Seems like you have a good handle on the pejorative words in the English language.

-- Joe

View tedth66's profile

tedth66

458 posts in 1945 days


#45 posted 10-18-2011 04:35 PM

agallant… so the bottom line is, you have buyers remorse after a years+ time. WOW!! Certainly at the time of the purchase you thought it was a good deal; at least I hope so.

When I ordered my SS contractor saw, I ordered it with the upgraded cast iron wings knowing the stamped metal wings weren’t going to work out for me. I also ordered the 52” extension. These two upgrades, to me, were a great deal and after about 2 years of using the saw, I still think I made the right decision. I never bit on the outfeed table as it looked like too much work to set it up and that’s why I built my own.

-- Ted

View agallant's profile

agallant

436 posts in 1642 days


#46 posted 10-18-2011 05:37 PM

I don’t know if I would say buyers remorse is the proper term, that is something that usailly happens right after the purchase. I’m not upset about spending 2K I am upset about the value I got for it. Break aside this is a $1000 table saw not a $2000 TS.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

2993 posts in 1998 days


#47 posted 10-18-2011 05:42 PM

Ajosephg, I agree with you 100%. I too am bothered by poor English (except when English is obviously not the person’s native tongue). I see poor English used everywhere, not just on these forums; I see it on TV, newspapers, engineering documentation. Using bad English sends the wrong message to readers. It says “you are not important enough for me to make the effort”. I admit my English is not always perfect, but I make the effort by using spell check and other tools at my disposal. I do this because I want to communicate as clearly as I can, so others will understand me. Of all the subjects we learned in school, our native language is the most important. This is true in other countries as well. I’m not a language snob, but the English language is the most descriptive and beautiful. People everywhere are trying to destroy the language; from rappers to Ifone scripters. Why are you doing this? Sorry for the rant. This just happens to be my pet peeve.

View rance's profile

rance

4149 posts in 1915 days


#48 posted 10-18-2011 06:00 PM

Anyone that doesn’t like their Saw Stop, turn on your saw and reach up there and touch the blade. I think your dislike for it will wain just a bit. Then go get a bandaid instead of an ice chest for your missing digit(s). (toung in cheek, of course) :)

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View cmm's profile

cmm

5 posts in 2492 days


#49 posted 10-18-2011 06:27 PM

I love to read comments about Saw Stop. There are always guys who say they are older than dirt and have never lost a finger. And guys who say they never use a guard and still have all their fingers. I wish them well and hope that when they die, they still have all their digits.
For me, after much consideration and careful thought about the cost, I bought a Saw Stop this summer. I am very pleased with the quality and very glad to have the added safety. I hope I never need the technology and will continue to work as though I don’t have it.
I promise not to try and force any one else to buy one!

View rance's profile

rance

4149 posts in 1915 days


#50 posted 10-18-2011 06:35 PM

cmm, which model do you have?

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

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