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View crank49's profile

Gas Powered Saw?

by crank49
posted 10-12-2011 07:37 PM


41 replies so far

View sandhill's profile

sandhill

2128 posts in 3762 days


#1 posted 10-12-2011 08:41 PM

I think I would use a generator I don’t see an plication where a gas powered saw would be of any benefit other than at a mill. Just my 2cents.

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1880 posts in 3399 days


#2 posted 10-12-2011 11:45 PM

Too much starting and stopping

-- Joe

View mikema's profile

mikema

180 posts in 2424 days


#3 posted 10-13-2011 12:46 AM

unbelievably http://dayton.craigslist.org/tls/2590782419.html

Seems incredibly unsafe to have a gas powered motor directly connected to a TS.

-- Mike ---- Visit my woodworking blog: http://sawdustnewbie.com

View PutnamEco's profile

PutnamEco

155 posts in 3124 days


#4 posted 10-13-2011 03:21 AM

There were a few manufacturers that produced gas circular saws, The Homelite had their XL-100 which was probably the most common, I believe it was based on a chainsaw engine. Piston Powered Products produced their Super Saw, which IMHO is the best design of the bunch being very similar to a string trimmers engine that kept the weight down a reasonable amount. One of the earliest commonly produced would be the Comet by Tote-n Tool, that was part of a series of tools based on the O&R (Ohlsson and Rice) engine platform.

Homelite XL-100 vid
http://youtu.be/a7MMKloZc4U

a 1919 Oshkosh Eveready table saw
http://youtu.be/38_-Dcr6w68

Re: sandhill says:
I think I would use a generator I don’t see an plication where a gas powered saw would be of any benefit other than at a mill.

So which would you rather carry a three horsepower motored saw or a generator capable of powering a three horsepower motor and a three horsepower electric saw? Now think about building a house in the wilderness, where yours access is either by horse or ATV.

-- “The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.” ― Franklin D. Roosevelt

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

4697 posts in 1558 days


#5 posted 07-29-2014 04:29 AM

Dragging up an old thread, I know, but this is too cool: http://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=26032 A Stihl chainsaw engine should provide ample power even if not using a worm drive gear train. Surprisingly light too.

View pauljuilleret's profile

pauljuilleret

98 posts in 1490 days


#6 posted 07-29-2014 09:59 AM

If you are close to any Amish they use them all the time I just had some roof work done by a Amish contractor in the Wooster Ohio area that is what this crew used As I understand it they can use electric tools as long as they don’t own them These guys though were the strict type (Old order Amish I think they are called) I offered the use of mine and was told they would use theirs instead a few stores in the area do sell them as I understand but you won’t get them at the big box stores

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 1948 days


#7 posted 07-29-2014 12:53 PM

Fire trucks often carry gas powered cutoff saws that use circular blades, but they’re a different form factor than a construction circular saw.

Personally, I’m also in the camp that would probably choose a generator and electric tools. The generator will run several tools sequentially, without starting and stopping an engine, as well as power anything else electric. You also only have to worry about things like fresh fuel and maintenance on one engine vs. many.

30A generators capable of powering 220v tools are common, easily transported, and not expensive when compared to many small engines. You’ll see them everywhere on R/V’s, as well utility trucks in states with vehicle anti-idling laws.

If you want small, I have a 2000 watt Honda inverter generator that is less than 50 pounds, super efficient, extremely quiet, and will easily power any 120v power tool. I’ve used it to run anything from airplane pre-heaters, to my electric chainsaw, to routers, as well as to cover my critical needs during power failures at home. Yamaha makes a similar unit. The only problem is that small, light, well-made 2000 watt / 120v units cost more to purchase than a garden variety 10,000 watt 220v unit.

View lndfilwiz's profile

lndfilwiz

94 posts in 1438 days


#8 posted 07-29-2014 01:11 PM

Paul beat me to it about Old Order Amish. We have a large community of Amish in WNY with most of them being Old Order. They use Gasoline and diesel powered motors to run their shops. Many have overhead pulley systems to run their power tools that they modify. I have seen one Amish man convert a circular saw to run with a chain saw motor. However, this is frowned upon in this community. Most are not allowed to even own chain saws. The use of overhead pulley systems have been used for hundreds of years and this has not diminished the quality of work the Amish do.

-- Smile, it makes people wander what you are up to.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

4697 posts in 1558 days


#9 posted 08-07-2014 07:46 PM

I was thinking about this concept (maybe a little too much) and I was looking in my shed and remembered my edger really isn’t that far off from being a gas circular saw, so I thought why not:

I did have to fabricate a bushing to keep the blade concentric with the arbor as it’s only 0.55” where as the blade is 0.625” but after that, it worked surprisingly well. The speed of the edger is close enough to that of a circular saw that performance was good, cutting a little over 1.5” deep in soft maple was done as quickly as I would be able to with an electric circular saw. Despite holding the blade concentric, the shoulder on the arbor was too small and allowed enough blade wobble to cut a kerf about twice that of the blade, but still did so efficiently.

View joeyinsouthaustin's profile

joeyinsouthaustin

1294 posts in 1910 days


#10 posted 08-07-2014 08:35 PM



I was thinking about this concept (maybe a little too much) and I was looking in my shed and remembered my edger really isn t that far off from being a gas circular saw, so I thought why not:

I did have to fabricate a bushing to keep the blade concentric with the arbor as it s only 0.55” where as the blade is 0.625” but after that, it worked surprisingly well. The speed of the edger is close enough to that of a circular saw that performance was good, cutting a little over 1.5” deep in soft maple was done as quickly as I would be able to with an electric circular saw. Despite holding the blade concentric, the shoulder on the arbor was too small and allowed enough blade wobble to cut a kerf about twice that of the blade, but still did so efficiently.

- bigblockyeti


That thing would be great for removing a glue down, or other floor!!! Or straigtlinning sheets on the floor, against a guide!! or just random havoc.

-- Who is John Galt?

View JayT's profile

JayT

5455 posts in 2049 days


#11 posted 08-07-2014 08:41 PM

In regards to Amish modding tools to be gas instead of electric.

Source:
http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/homemade-and-modified-tools/hacking-a-ridgid-miter-saw.aspx

-- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

8323 posts in 1324 days


#12 posted 08-07-2014 08:48 PM

Damn that electricity stuff.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View nicksmurf111's profile

nicksmurf111

366 posts in 1288 days


#13 posted 08-07-2014 08:56 PM

Lawnmower engines are governed, so as long as you have enough flywheel weight they should work great on a table saw. You can even rig up a cutout switch where you would normally expect your on-off switch to be. I like rigging up stuff and would consider using a 3-5hp horizontal engine on a planer or molder.

-- Nicholas

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

4495 posts in 3081 days


#14 posted 08-08-2014 06:30 PM

A saw or any machine can be run off a belt driven jackshaft. That jackshaft can be run from any power source. This type of drive was in general use 100 years ago. The power source in this case could be steam engine, gasoline engine, water power or even horse power and off course electric motor. The saw doesn’t care who or what is powering it. There are even water powered saws for underwater use. I wouldn’t want a gas engine running in the same shop as I’m in. A better way is to run an electric saw from a portable generator. It’s just not practical.

View joeyinsouthaustin's profile

joeyinsouthaustin

1294 posts in 1910 days


#15 posted 08-08-2014 09:20 PM


I wouldn t want a gas engine running in the same shop as I m in. A better way is to run an electric saw from a portable generator.

- MrRon


In fact a worker in texas Died of Carbon Monoxide poisoning this week running a gas powered concrete saw indoors, w/o proper ventilation.

-- Who is John Galt?

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

4697 posts in 1558 days


#16 posted 08-08-2014 09:29 PM

I do find the concept very interesting for multiple reasons, but it stands to reason, without some common sense you could earn yourself a Darwin award pretty quickly.

View Loren's profile (online now)

Loren

9631 posts in 3486 days


#17 posted 08-08-2014 09:31 PM

I heard an Amish craftsman on the radio awhile back.

He said they have a phone down in the shop but not
in the house… things like that. He talked about spreadsheets
and how much time they could save him but then
one has to get the computer to run the software
and then there exists the temptation to use the
computer for other things too… so he’d been
thinking about the implications for many years.

View robscastle's profile (online now)

robscastle

4522 posts in 2042 days


#18 posted 08-11-2014 04:43 AM

ont waste your time with the toys get a decent one

http://video.carsguide.com.au/v/182476/Holden-V8-chainsaw-is-an-Aussie-muscle-axe

-- Regards Robert

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2564 posts in 2721 days


#19 posted 08-11-2014 02:25 PM

I think that electric motors have better torque response that gas powered motors, especially for applications like wood working machines where sudden, high torque is required. I think that this is why diesel locomotives are basically a large, diesel powered generator powering an electric drive.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View nicksmurf111's profile

nicksmurf111

366 posts in 1288 days


#20 posted 08-11-2014 02:35 PM

Small engine governors are generally crude. The lightweight flywheels don’t help. You need to oversize the engine so that the governor can give it more throttle when you need the torque (using a 5hp in an application where you would need a 2-3hp electric motor). But, generally, you can get them to run at the steady 3600 rpm.

I wish I could get my hands on a hit-and-miss engine.

Diesel locomotives are electric over diesel so that they do not need a gear transmission.

-- Nicholas

View bat47's profile

bat47

2 posts in 1086 days


#21 posted 12-26-2014 01:07 AM

I just bought this saw. It was built by Construction Machinery Corp.The company went out of business in 1967 and left nothing to date it by. The motor is a Wisconsin and was built from 1941-1957. The serial number is unreadable so I cannot get any closer than that. I have a sales catalog from the 40’s that has this saw in it. There is one that is smaller and another that has a 4 cyl motor. This one has a 8.4hp single cylinder motor. It would not make a good saw for the construction site since it weighs in at a little over 700lbs.

Here is a link to more pictures.
http://s272.photobucket.com/user/bat47/library/Table%20saw?sort=3&page=1

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2588 posts in 2352 days


#22 posted 12-26-2014 01:43 AM

This whole thread seems sort of insane to me. I think in terms of my Stihl chainsaw, and how erratic that really is when compared to my table saw. I cannot imagine using a gas powered cutoff saw as shown above, nor a gas powered rip saw like the Amish seem to use. Seems like a whole amount of work and a real unsafe practice for no gain. Am I missing something here, or is everyone else who uses this type of equipment nuts?

The only one who seems to be interesting is bat47, who bought this old gas powered table saw as kind of a curiosity, restoring a relic from days gone by. As an antique, that makes perfect sense. As a day to day use tool, not on my best day….

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

View nicksmurf111's profile

nicksmurf111

366 posts in 1288 days


#23 posted 12-26-2014 02:45 AM

I’d consider something that is chainsaw powered to be a littler cumbersome, but any stationary equipment that has enough static weight or flywheel weight to deal with the vibration of the motor, I wouldn’t be worried about. It’s going to function the same. The only thing is you need to actuate a clutch and don’t have a switch that can be turned off with your knee/palm/elbow. The Amish, around my neck of the woods, run their equipment off a centrally located diesel engine. Their tools can be as inherent safe as an electrical tool, minus the switch. I haven’t seen many of their shops, but I’d like to see if they set up proper guards around v-belts, flat belts and pto shafts. I’m sure that de-coupling the engine from the machine probably makes a huge difference.

Other thing to consider, is some of these small engines we see today are still quite unrefined. They don’t build engines with heavy iron cases and countershafts (some have 10+ hp engines have countershafts some don’t) like that Wisconsin seen above They just don’t put a lot of money into producing really nice heavy ones, because they are used for mundane tasks, and also need to be light. Contrary to that, you see sawmills using 100+ hp stationary engines…the Amish probably use similar.

-- Nicholas

View bat47's profile

bat47

2 posts in 1086 days


#24 posted 12-26-2014 11:49 PM

There is no way I would put a piece of wood through the one I bought. It actually came with a fence and a miter gauge of sorts. I don’t have either one. The odd thing is that the miter gauge bolted to the table top. When cutting the wood the foot pedal would be pushed down causing the blade to come up. The blade is connected to a long arm which gave the it a lot of travel. Also the motor has a very heavy flywheel on it.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2588 posts in 2352 days


#25 posted 12-27-2014 01:21 AM



There is no way I would put a piece of wood through the one I bought. It actually came with a fence and a miter gauge of sorts. I don t have either one. The odd thing is that the miter gauge bolted to the table top. When cutting the wood the foot pedal would be pushed down causing the blade to come up. The blade is connected to a long arm which gave the it a lot of travel. Also the motor has a very heavy flywheel on it.

- bat47

Holy moley…I rest my case.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

2564 posts in 1863 days


#26 posted 12-27-2014 10:40 PM

Not long ago, a CL ad from Anacortes, WA, was selling a 13” Rockwell HD planer powered by a 13 h.p. gas engine. It was mounted on good size pneumatic tires. It was claimed that the power was ample in that application.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

2564 posts in 1863 days


#27 posted 12-28-2014 09:24 PM

Here’s the CL ad for the planer I mentioned above

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1100 posts in 2124 days


#28 posted 12-28-2014 09:53 PM

When I was growing up, my dad took me to one of his friends’ house and this guy had everything in his shop running off his tractor :)

Tractor parked outside, just above an idle, turning a big overhead shaft that had sheaves wherever he needed them turning these wide leather belts. Fuel was cheap back then and when you think about it, this is how a lot of factories ran.

View cutmantom's profile

cutmantom

401 posts in 2873 days


#29 posted 12-28-2014 09:59 PM

generator allows you to use anything that plugs in, tools, electronics, lights…....

View bridgeton's profile

bridgeton

14 posts in 2006 days


#30 posted 12-28-2014 10:02 PM

I have gone to mud sales in Lancaster county and seen Unisaws that had hydraulic and air motors that the Amish use. They said they had a hydraulic power unit to run the saw it had a gas engine on it or a diesel air compressor.

-- bridgeton

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1445 posts in 2905 days


#31 posted 12-28-2014 10:17 PM

For several years, I had a shop in an out building. Only way i could work was with a generator. Expensive, but doable. (do not operate without singing grounding rod and binding frame of generator to it).

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View SirIrb's profile

SirIrb

1239 posts in 1068 days


#32 posted 01-22-2015 07:30 PM

Because I just saw it…and laughed.
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/grd/4852730744.html

-- Don't blame me, I voted for no one.

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2611 posts in 2134 days


#33 posted 01-22-2015 07:50 PM

Have 4 or 5 people said ‘generator’ yet? Generator. Then you could use your table saw. And your chop saw. And your drill. And your radio. And so on and so on.

But I’m sure before rural electrification that these guys were extremely common.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38_-Dcr6w68

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

2564 posts in 1863 days


#34 posted 01-22-2015 08:06 PM

How big a generator would be needed to run a 3 hp TS? Or a big planer?

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

2564 posts in 1863 days


#35 posted 01-22-2015 08:07 PM

Dang duplicate post.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View nicksmurf111's profile

nicksmurf111

366 posts in 1288 days


#36 posted 01-22-2015 08:53 PM

runswithscissors, I’d overshoot what you need and use a 5kw generator for a 3hp TS. If you do the calculations, you need much less, but you wouldn’t want to get a 3.5kw just to figure out you can’t start the motor. I assume you are talking about single phase 240v.

-- Nicholas

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2611 posts in 2134 days


#37 posted 01-23-2015 03:44 PM

Amps X Voltage = Watts.

View nicksmurf111's profile

nicksmurf111

366 posts in 1288 days


#38 posted 01-23-2015 03:53 PM

Multiply efficiency (around 70% if you are calculating for hp per watt) and starting amperage (a lot) with that and you can get close to what you need in the way of wattage.

-- Nicholas

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4414 posts in 3580 days


#39 posted 01-23-2015 03:59 PM

Suppose you could run a tablesaw much like a chainsaw, such that there is some kind of centrifugal clutch system, that engages when the engine is revved.

I am just picturing a pull string on a Unisaw.

then shut the gas engine off.

I still thing for remote use…. a generator is more useful, and will power other tools +lights or a radio

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

View nicksmurf111's profile

nicksmurf111

366 posts in 1288 days


#40 posted 01-23-2015 04:09 PM

DrDirt – http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200415723_200415723
Same kind of clutch you see a lot of folks using on gas powered saw mills.

-- Nicholas

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

2564 posts in 1863 days


#41 posted 01-23-2015 08:04 PM

A clutch like that came on the gas engine of a garden chipper/shredder I bought. Ironically (given the thrust of this thread), I swapped the non-running engine out for a 220v 3 hp. electric motor, and adapted the clutch to the motor’s shaft. It works great, and has ample power for all the stuff I shove through there. I used the clutch because I figured the heavy starting load (hammers and chipper flywheel) would be hard on the motor.

But I’m not trying to run machinery off site, and don’t need a generator. I asked the question because I think using a gas engine to run a generator to power a saw (or planer, etc.) is inefficient, compared to powering directly with the engine (aside from other reasons for or against the idea).

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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