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View Dan's profile

Great example of what to watch out for w buying old tools on Ebay

by Dan
posted 1036 days ago


28 replies so far

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1290 days


#1 posted 1036 days ago

Scammery. Run of the mill #5, not even very desirable, at the price of an early type in pristine condition. The shame. I agree that’s what’s happening.

It seems reportable but there’s no real category for the practice. I considered asking a question but I wasn’t certain it would be received correctly;)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View Elizabeth's profile

Elizabeth

792 posts in 1740 days


#2 posted 1036 days ago

It’s reportable: First drop-down category is Listing practices, second is Fraudulent listing activities, and third is “Seller is using other accounts to inflate item price” but I don’t know if they expect you to prove it or if a suspicion is enough.

View Dan's profile

Dan

3543 posts in 1477 days


#3 posted 1036 days ago

Ya I don’t think there is really anything you can do about it other then what I did and warn people who may not know to look for that stuff. I can easily see someone newer to buying old tools off ebay seeing the number of bids on that item and thinking it was due to it being in higher demand.

Granted real bidding wars do happen and things do sometimes sell for more then usual but in this case where the bidders have basically no feedback and have only bid on this sellers item it just screams scam.

-- Dan - "Collector of Hand Planes"

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 1159 days


#4 posted 1036 days ago

Whatever the bidding circumstances, this plane is definitely not worth the $71.50 that it’s currently at.

I’ve been following plane prices on eBay religiously for the past several months and have noticed an increase with inflated pricing across the board (no pun intended). Everyone seems to think their “vintage” plane is a rare collector’s item or at least wants the unsuspecting buyer to think so.

I’m glad you posted this, Dan.

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3556 posts in 2331 days


#5 posted 1036 days ago

Dan: you’ve got a good eye for deceitful practices on eBay. Theoretically, if a seller finds a way to drive up the price of his item, he automatically drives away his potential bidders. This is why, you’re safe if you pretty much know what an item SHOULD net as a final price. I doubt if any legitimate bidders really want that plane for the current price, and the seller will probably have to eat the listing. I just roll my eyes at these offerings where clearly the high bid appears to have been manipulated. This is one notch below the ‘Buy-it-now’ listings for flaky, rusty #45 Stanleys with a BIN price of $500. Kinda like trolling for marlin in a goldfish pond, isn’t it? Avoid these long-shot crapshooters and seek out the honest traders on eBay, they are still out there.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 1159 days


#6 posted 1036 days ago

Well, the bidding ended at $73.00. The buyer was a new account – the first and only item that he/she bid on. So either a newbie got taken for a ride or the seller still has an unsold #5 to get rid of.

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3556 posts in 2331 days


#7 posted 1036 days ago

Right, Pierce!
Wonder why all those bidders chomping at the bit for this #5 are not bothering to bid on the comparable other #5 he has listed? No bids at all on that one, closing tomorrow.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View Dan's profile

Dan

3543 posts in 1477 days


#8 posted 1036 days ago

At least with the “buy it now” the seller is asking for what ever price straight up. They aren’t using other accounts or methods to increase the price.

I have been buying on ebay for over 10 years but it wasn’t until about 2 years ago that I started buying old tools. When I first started getting old tools on ebay it took me some time to know what to look for even though I was not new to ebay itself. There are some planes and other old tools in my shop that I paid WAY to much for on ebay but it was at a time when I didn’t know what was what when it came to tools. Knowing me I would have been the guy who won that auction for that #5 and I would have had a smile on my face knowing I was the high bid out of 18 other bidders…

There are many good sellers, probably more good then bad but you still have to keep a sharp eye for things that seem out of sort.

-- Dan - "Collector of Hand Planes"

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

3342 posts in 2557 days


#9 posted 1036 days ago

Caveat emptor.
That’s my latin lesson for the day.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View Don W's profile

Don W

14609 posts in 1164 days


#10 posted 1036 days ago

wait! I have several #5 I’d sell for that!

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View PutnamEco's profile

PutnamEco

155 posts in 1883 days


#11 posted 1036 days ago

There are certainly a lot of dreamers on Ebay, thinking they will get rich by selling things for unrealistic prices. The dishonest ones are the worst.

-- “The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.” ― Franklin D. Roosevelt

View WayneC's profile

WayneC

12246 posts in 2694 days


#12 posted 1036 days ago

I got one I paid $3 for sitting on my bench…. I guess I should start selling.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1712 days


#13 posted 1036 days ago

you are maybee right in this case :-(
but if the item has pictures from every angle to document it
it usualy get alot higher price than the same one with only one picture
and if a seller has a good reputation on the bay then its drive the price up
but its usualy several bidders on the item unless a biddingwar is in progress

Dennis

View Dan's profile

Dan

3543 posts in 1477 days


#14 posted 1036 days ago

Don, If I could get 70+ for my #5’s I would be a rich man. It seems like I have a dozen or more 5’s and I have no clue why.

If someone wants to start their auction for a high price, thats fine. If they want to have a high buy it now price, thats fine to. Good luck to them. Its the ones that bid against their own items to jack up the price that I have a problem with. I am sure there are some sellers who have figured out a way to do it to where it cant even be detected.

The only thing that pisses me off more then that is sellers asking for crazy high shipping prices. They do that so they can get more money without paying the final sale fees to ebay.

-- Dan - "Collector of Hand Planes"

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 1159 days


#15 posted 1036 days ago

I don’t mind seeing buy it now listed planes at ridiculously high prices. What bugs me are those folks who actually buy such planes at those prices…

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1290 days


#16 posted 1036 days ago

^I know why, Dan, because they’re probably the most prolific planes out there! I joked with a LJ here that his first #5 won’t be his last. I’ll bet we’ll see the same thing happen on his other #5 tomorrow unless Ebay gets on to him.

#5’s are like rabbits. You don’t even have to buy more to have more, it sometimes seems.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View Loren's profile

Loren

7226 posts in 2245 days


#17 posted 1036 days ago

I’ve wondered about this stuff that goes far out of the range for normal
bid fluctuations. I am curious about whether there is some sort of Paypal
or other fraud going on with these patterns.

It could be tool dealers trying to raise perceived value as well by running
these shill auctions.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View CrossGrain's profile

CrossGrain

7 posts in 1110 days


#18 posted 1035 days ago

I’ve been scouting Ebay in Australia for ages looking for a No5 and they are few and far between. Seems every one is holding on to theirs. They usually go for around AUS$50.00- $90.00.
This is what is available now

CG

-- ...Making big bits of wood smaller....

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5367 posts in 1972 days


#19 posted 1035 days ago

The seller is pretty well established with 100% feedback on 100 transactions, so it’d be hard to prove he’s up to no good. He’s even using his full name, which I think says something….if I’m not mistaken, I think Fred Kingston is an avid wwer on many of these forums, and may have a following for his hand plane knowledge. It looks like a nice older plane in good shape, but the bidding has gone out of control…add shipping and someone will end up overpaying IMO. I’d blame it more on ignorant enthusiasm than scam….from a seller’s perspective it’s probably just an auction that’s getting more action than it deserves.

While the bidders may be overpaying, I think in the end they’ll end up with a good plane….IMHO they’ll be paying less for a better plane than a new import like a Woodriver, Anant, or new Stanley Sweetheart. No harm done really if the plane works well and needs little help…

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15651 posts in 2815 days


#20 posted 1035 days ago

I agree with Scott in this case. I’m not saying bid fraud doesn’t go on, but I also think you have a lot of cases when people just get carried away. I find that the planes that look pretty decent tend to sell for a lot more, even though a really crappy looking one will clean up just as nicely as long as nothing is really broken.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View pariswoodworking's profile

pariswoodworking

379 posts in 1082 days


#21 posted 1035 days ago

I like #5s but I wouldn’t pay that much for most of them. When I bought mine off ebay, I payed $9 for it plus $10 for shipping. I thinking either the seller had another account so he could jack up the price or someone got into a bidding war.

-- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein

View Dan's profile

Dan

3543 posts in 1477 days


#22 posted 1035 days ago

Knotscott- Why I questioned this case was because there were a couple different users bidding on the item, the users bidding were only bidding on that one item, both had feedback score of 3 and were both newer accounts. Then a third bidder came in who was a brand new account… It just didn’t add up..

I am not saying it was a scam because its a persons choice to bid and if they want to bid more money then they made the choice. In my opinion this may be a case of someone increasing interest in an item by making it look like there is a higher demand for it….

I guess the point of the story is to be careful and watch for stuff like this. If a couple people are going back and forth on a item you may want to wait for the next one, especially one as common as this.

-- Dan - "Collector of Hand Planes"

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1290 days


#23 posted 1035 days ago

I wonder if you start an account, bid on your own item, then win; do you get to leave yourself positive feedback? Lol. It was a decent plane, not worth $70 to me, but will certainly be worth well more than $70 to someone who puts it to good use. It’s definitely something to look out for. If I’m interested in an item with several bids, I always consult the bidding history to see who’s involved. If it’s a guy with 5000+ positives, I figure either 1) He’ll win or 2) I’ll pay too much; simply because he probably has a better idea of what it will resell for.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View Don W's profile

Don W

14609 posts in 1164 days


#24 posted 1035 days ago

If you bid on your own item, and sell it to yourself for more than you paid for it, have you made money?

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6914 posts in 1511 days


#25 posted 1035 days ago

I have also seen some FrankenPlanes posting for high $$$. Most of the parts truly match the description except maybe for one that may be close in age/type but NOT 100%. It really pays to do your homework on your particular interest’s model’s historical timeline AND its variations. FWIW, I have gone as far as contacting authors of some of these price/history guidelines. It was time well spent.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Don W's profile

Don W

14609 posts in 1164 days


#26 posted 1035 days ago

I have also seen some FrankenPlanes posting for high $$$. In that case, FrankenPlane for sale. Just Make an unreasonably high offer. :-)

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 1159 days


#27 posted 1035 days ago

Egos can be involved in bidding as well.

Case in point: I was looking for a decent saw vise and noticed one particular buyer outbidding everyone on a bunch of different vises – me on two different occasions. This guy was clearly a dealer buying up whatever he could get his hands on for cheap.

That pissed me off. All I wanted was one, and I was actually going to use the damn thing not resell it for 3 or 4 times it’s original auction (sold) price.

So when a very nice Sargent came up for auction, in pristine condition, sure enough Mr. dealer had placed a bid. There was no way in hell I was going to let him win that vise. Out of all the saw vises up for auction at the time, this was clearly the best of the lot. I did win it and for a decent price.

I would have paid ten times what it was worth to just to make sure that dealer wouldn’t get it. Not a very smart way to buy on eBay, but I figured I’d rather pay the original seller 3 or 4 times what it was worth rather than this dealer down the road.

View grantlairdjr's profile

grantlairdjr

31 posts in 1187 days


#28 posted 1032 days ago

Yeah agreed. That’s why i always look for “instant buy” with good deal rather than bidding. Sometime they have “make a offer”, I will offer reasonable deal and you will be surprised. I hardly bid anything these days.

-- Grant Laird Jr - Garland, Texas

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