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View Chipy's profile

Festool or Fesfool

by Chipy
posted 1108 days ago


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106 replies

106 replies so far

View Loren's profile

Loren

7464 posts in 2284 days


#1 posted 1108 days ago

All of the Festool stuff I have owned has been very well engineered
and with very good ergonomics. The tools mostly hold resale value
well too.

The Festool jigsaw cuts with less vibration than others. It also
cuts very straight due to bandsaw-like guides. The large planer
does things other planers cannot do. The dust collection on all
the tools would be difficult to improve on.

The track saw system is the original and now has some good
competition and I certainly have complaints about it, but I’m
sure all the track saw systems have weak spots.

For a pro it saves time, and for the hobbiest with money to spend
they provide convenience, precision, cleanliness and emotional
validation.

Festool excellence is very real but I won’t argue that the stuff
is spendy or recommend it to anyone but the most serious
woodworker.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View ellen35's profile

ellen35

2566 posts in 2069 days


#2 posted 1108 days ago

Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it… I only own 2 and they are my go to drill and sander.
I hate the cost, but on a small scale, they are worth the money…
I dare ya to try them… ;-)
If there is a demo in your area, try it. You may not buy it (I chose the Bosch over the Kapex) but you will understand some of the fascination with the line.

-- "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Voltaire

View Steven H's profile

Steven H

1114 posts in 1696 days


#3 posted 1108 days ago

I just bought a festool ETS 125 sander. I will do a review when it get here.

I think their tools are engineered well in dust collection.

View woodworkerscott's profile

woodworkerscott

360 posts in 1450 days


#4 posted 1108 days ago

Festool is wonderful, no question. But I don’t support an over inflated product or its company.

Owning Festool does not make you a serious woodworker. It makes you a woodworker that has some spare cash to blow, that’s all. Maloof didn’t own Festool, Nakashima didn’t, Tibbetts doesn’t. Obviously they did fine without it. Festool wants you to think you are a serious woodworker if you own it. BS!
I used to be tool salesman and demonstrator for a big tool store a few years ago. We were a major vendor for Festool. Festool has very strict rules for being a vendor and requires (or used to) that a sales rep attend training about their product line. They are extremely well engineered and back their product up 100%. I have tried out their products and used their sanders heavily in production. Great, dependable equipment.

Do I think that they are worth the dollars they require to purchase them…..absolutely NOT!!
There is no question about their excellent engineering and quality. The reality of it is that the cost of this equipment is disgustingly absurd. The quality still does not justify the cost.
It’s like buying a Harley….a status symbol. Great bikes, no doubt. The best? Not convinced on that.

They have made it to where it is a status symbol to have their product. Clever marketing strategy at work here folks.
If I were a millionaire I still would not buy their product line.
Is it great…Yes! Is it worth the expense….hell no.
Yes they have made FESFOOLS out of some people. But hey…that’s just my well founded opinion.

-- " 'woodworker'.....it's a good word, an honest word." - Sam Maloof

View David Kirtley's profile

David Kirtley

1276 posts in 1634 days


#5 posted 1107 days ago

It depends. From the perspective of a home hobbyist, It is overkill and way too expensive. From the perspective of someone who works with tools for on a daily basis and depends on them for their livelihood, the price is immaterial. Different rules and economics apply when you are doing it for a living.

Take ergonomics as an example. If I drive twenty nails on some project, the ergonomics of a handle doesn’t mean that much to me. If I am driving them 8-10 hours a day, it means the difference of being able to go to work or going to a physical therapist.

I am pretty cavalier about dust in my garage workshop. The few minutes of sanding I do adds up to a big fat zero for the most part. Good dust collection over the entire workday over years, means the difference between going to work or walking around with an oxygen bottle while waiting on an organ donor.

I have one of the trimmer routers from HF. If It goes out, I will go over to HF and pick up another one. If I were doing a job under a time contract, I can’t figure that into my hours of billable time. It can end up costing me a lot more in work loss or losing an entire contract than the price of some dinky tool.

-- Woodworking shouldn't cost a fortune: http://lowbudgetwoodworker.blogspot.com/

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1269 days


#6 posted 1107 days ago

I don’t own any Festool stuff, but I could see myself buying soem of their smaller ticket items IF I found one I really liked. If I were in the market for a palm sander, a tool I use all the time, I’d pay an extra $100 for THE tool I liked best.
Of course, I have limits to this philosophy…...which cap-out at around $100 :LOL:
No way am I paying $1300 for a miter saw. I’d have to deprive myself and try to squeak by with a $500 DeWalt. I definitely believe that their is a (price) point where a tool can’t get MUCH better. The difference in performance between a $80 Skil miter saw, and a $500 DeWalt is huge. The difference between the $500 DeWalt and the $1300 Festool would be unappreciable to a hack like me.

View Mary Anne's profile

Mary Anne

1057 posts in 1845 days


#7 posted 1107 days ago

Chippy, I would never presume to tell you what brand of tools you should buy. However, I own three Festool tools and love having them in my shop. More would be welcome anytime! I would be happy to tell you why they were a good choice for me.

Before I owned any Festool products, I, too, scoffed at the prices and couldn’t imagine spending that kind of money on them. Like you said, you could buy several very good tools for the price of one Festool. At one time my budget dictated that I buy good tools and replace them every few years. And there is NOTHING wrong with that. We all buy the best we can afford… or the best our spouses will allow. ;)

Then I received a Festool TS 55 tracksaw for my birthday two years ago. Ah ha, then I understood what all the fuss was about. The Festool tracksaw is fantastic for me. My shop is in the basement and not roomy enough to handle sheet goods on my table saw. With the TS 55 I can cut to exact dimensions with very little setup or hassle in my garage and carry the smaller, easily manageable parts down to my basement shop. And do it way better, faster, and cleaner in my garage than any jig or straightedge and clamp system I had tried in the past with my circular saw. It was also great for trimming the edges of a small deck I’d built. Also recently, when David (patron) was here, I used it for ripping some long cedar strips… no sweat. It is more versatile and it takes up a lot less room than a panel saw.

I then purchased the Festool Rotex 125 EQ random orbital sander along with a CT 36 Dust Extractor for myself. No other sander I’ve ever used—and I’ve had some good sanders—comes even close to the Festool; it is in a league of its own. Hardly any vibration to aggravate my RA, lots of torque, and sandpaper lasts an insanely long time. Add the Dust Extractor which quietly removes nearly 100% of the dust out the air—and my lungs!—the combination makes sanding almost a joy. I never thought I would get that excited about a dust collector… I have 3 Ridgid vacs and four shop vacs hanging around that I bought over the years. Again, no comparison!

No, owning Festool products do not make me a “serious woodworker”; that would be an absurd claim that would be. And I don’t have them as a status symbol… the only people who visit my shop wouldn’t know the difference. And to tell the truth, I don’t really like the green color. LOL

But my Festools, like my Incra stuff (another name that seems to set some people off) make me a happier woodworker. Due to disabilities, I can’t work in my shop as often or as much as I would like so I put high value on anything that makes precision easier or makes my shop time go more smoothly. It is depressing to go to the shop with a project in mind and end up spending my entire limited time and energy fiddling with tool setup. Even if I were in excellent health and physical condition with all the time in the world, I would appreciate the quality, easy accuracy, dependability, and virtually dust free environment. They are simply a pleasure to use. The only way I feel like a Festool fool is for not getting them sooner.

What I don’t understand is the anger and vitriol of some non Festool owners. Hey, I don’t get mad at anyone or call them names because they use Dewalt, Ryobi, Bosch, Jet, Grizzly, or even Harbor Freight tools!! I have some of each of those brands in my shop, too. If you are happy with the tools purchases and think you got good value for your money, I am happy for you. I just don’t get it why some folks feel a need to stoop to name calling and ridiculing others for being happy with their choice of Festool tools. It seems… well… foolish.

View thebigvise's profile

thebigvise

190 posts in 1537 days


#8 posted 1107 days ago

I just started a thread on the same subject. Sorry that I didn’t see this one first. Anyway, count me among the folks who don’t get it!

-- Paul, Clinton, NC

View Roman Hrytsak's profile (online now)

Roman Hrytsak

472 posts in 1322 days


#9 posted 1107 days ago

I have had an opportunity to work with a contractor that has bought a few Feestool products and they are the best, well worth the price. I’ve used the dust extractor and it is a very quiet machine and does a superb job.

-- Roman:... there are no mistakes, just opportunities for a design change!

View Riick's profile

Riick

7 posts in 1311 days


#10 posted 1107 days ago

Mary Anne,
I may have missed something but so far I haven’t seen any name calling. I haven’t really read any anger, either. I read frustration with consumers that feel the need to buy Festool but I didn’t pick up on anyone insulting others for owning Festool.
Just my two cents.

-- -- I've Been Reading So Much About The Bad Effects Of Smoking, Drinking & Sex, That I've Decided To Give Up Reading.

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1795 days


#11 posted 1107 days ago

I have a 6” refractor telescope that cost $9000. The mount needed to set it on is another $9000.

I have a 12.5” reflecting telescope that cost $21,000. The mount required for that scope cost $12,500.

I have two astronomy cameras that cost $13,000 and $9000 each.

I have another 4” refractor telescope that cost around $3000.

The performance of all that equipment I just mentioned cannot be duplicated with other, less expensive gear for the applications that I perform…Astrophotography.

Can Festool performance be duplicated by other manufacturers? That’s the question.

I say, it depends on the product. To me, the sanders, dust collectors, and the Domino are probably the equipment that might truly be worth the money because they seem to do things other tools can’t. But as much as I’d like a track saw like the TS55, I’ll probably opt for the DeWalt instead.

But so much of this is my perception of these things. If I used any of them, I’d probably change my mind on all the Festool products…or at least I could better see the value of them compared to others. You folks probably gulped when you saw the price list of my astronomy gear above, but if you come out and see how rockin’ awesome that stuff if, you’d understand.

But, yeah, some of that Festool stuff looks a bit crazy expensive to me, especially their drilll. How high-tech do you need a drill to be?

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View bobsmyuncle's profile

bobsmyuncle

110 posts in 1327 days


#12 posted 1107 days ago

I have a Festool ROS* and a Bosch ROS. The Festool is better. Is it enough better that I should send 3x as much for it? Sort of a value judgment. If the Bosch rates a 92 out of 100 and the Festool a 96, I’d have to think about it.

  • I got this on special for $59, so it was a no-brainer.

If I was a trim carpenter doing miter cuts all day, I might consider their Kapex. But I did without a miter saw for 20 years of woodworking. So probably not.

And I do not for one minute think a track saw will ever replace my table saw. Can’t do repeatable cuts to a fence, miter gauge, or stop, can’t do tenons, can’t do rabbets, can’t do raised panels, can’t do dadoes/grooves, can’t do accurate miters without a lot of fussing, etc.

View EvilNuff's profile

EvilNuff

59 posts in 1264 days


#13 posted 1107 days ago

If you can afford them then yes they are good tools and worth having. However, IMO there are two types of Festool tools. There are some that there are no competitors for and others that there are alternate options. Let me elaborate.

Their sanders are flat out better than anything else. They have significantly better dust collection, the paper lasts longer (even non Festool paper) b/c of the DC, and they vibrate a lot less than others. This makes them just superior to any other sanders I have ever used.

The Domino is another tool that has no comparison. You incorrectly label this a biscuit jointer, it is not. Its a lose tenon mortising machine. Dominos are not biscuits don’t confuse yourself about that! :)

Other tools they make, such as the jigsaws and cordless drills and routers are just superior versions to other competitor’s tools. The routers have significantly superior dust collection which is nice but whether its worth the extra money is up to you. For the cordless drills the best example I can give you is Harbor Freight cordless drills. You can go buy a $20 18v cordless from Harbor Freight and compare that to say $150 for a dewalt 18v. Why the devil would you EVER pay SIX times as much for the dewalt? Well because its just flat out better. Now compare the dewalt to a Festool drill, same comparison applies.

The Festool products really are just better than any competitors products, and yes they are heck of expensive. Do this, go buy one and try it for 30 days. They have a 30 day return policy no questions asked so just go see for yourself, it costs you nothing.

View StephenO's profile

StephenO

37 posts in 1182 days


#14 posted 1107 days ago

I have lately been playing around with some of the Festool line at my local Rockler store, and they are definitely quality tools. I think what makes them seem so expensive is the fact that the market has been flooded with Chinese stuff that is either lower quality or flat-out garbage, but it’s dirt cheap and it lowers peoples’ perception of what prices should be. Disposable lighters cost all of $1, so why would anybody want to spend twenty bucks on a Zippo? ;)

-- -Steve, Seattle

View Greedo's profile

Greedo

467 posts in 1597 days


#15 posted 1107 days ago

the price of festools is simply the price of anything high tech manufactured in europe.
on one side you have threads about everything being made in china being cheap crap and taking away jobs, and on the other side threads about stuff made in the west being expensive.
in europe we can’t immagine that in the states you can get a cabinet saw for $800, because there are still plenty of european brands that make make high quality equipment in europe. and instead of trying to make the same tools cheaper and cheaper without innovation or at best copied innovations, they have gone the quality and innovation route to stay competitive.

china can easily replicate made in usa stuff like cabinet saws, on their own or actually helped by the us company who closes its’ plants in the states. though i think china cannot keep up technologically with what is made in europe, because no big brand will share it’s technology as they know “made in germany” italy, austria belgium or france etc… is a bigger selling point than something 40% cheaper stamped “made in china”

View Les 's profile

Les

199 posts in 1327 days


#16 posted 1107 days ago

My son and I work in my shop. He bought the track saw and my first reaction was “500+ dollars for a circular saw”, what the hell were you thinking?

Since I started using it, I have changed my mind. Cutting up sheet goods is a dream, we use a sacrificial panel under the goods and just cut away.

Need a straight edge on lumber, no more attaching it to something so you can run it through your TS.

The plunge factor alone is worth it in a lot of situations.

You just have to use it in your shop for a while and you be sold.

Is it over priced, hell yes, but that is what niche marketing is all about. Do you remember when the first biscuit cutters came out???

Les

-- Stay busy....Stay young

View richgreer's profile

richgreer

4522 posts in 1711 days


#17 posted 1107 days ago

Woodworking in my hobby and I enjoy it very much. I have several festools and I like them very much.

In my mind, a festool is like an expensive fishing boat. A lesser boat will probably work just as well but the fisherman who can afford it wants the fancier, bigger, more expensive boat because it brings added pleasure to his fishing experience. No one asks the fisherman to justify the amount he spent on the boat and I don’t have to justify the amount I spend on my festools.

Festools add to pleasure I enjoy in woodworking. That’s all the justification needed.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View Chipy's profile

Chipy

374 posts in 1230 days


#18 posted 1107 days ago

Greedo My point with this thread is not tool trashing or dictating to any woodworker what to spend on there tools or even what county there buying their tools from but what is fair pricing and what quality and innovation the tools have.Sure I have bought tools from China how can you avoid it thees days.To your point about me flip flopping about weather to buy American, German,or what ever….. you must have read some of my other post and misunderstood my point in them. If I am taking a side hear it is on the side of the consumer and not on the side of Festool,China,Germany etc…......If I have hurt your Fesfeelings I am sorry but so far the responses to this thread still haven’t convinced me to buy Festools.Tell me why it is worth it to buy a $13000 miter saw,What innovations doses it have, what is it made of,how good is the motor, how durable it is etc you.I am talking tools here people, not politics!!!!! I got it! We will start a new country and call it WOODWORKING Land.We better not will just start arguing about the name.Oh this applies to everyone except Marry Anne.

View Steven H's profile

Steven H

1114 posts in 1696 days


#19 posted 1107 days ago

Chipy

NO one here is forcing you to buy Festool tools.
This is like comparing a mercedes benz car and a toyota car.
None of them are crap cars, it all depends what people want.
If they want luxury feel, then of course they will get Mercedes.
If they want good millage at good price range, they will get Toyota.

Same with Festool, powermatic tools, etc.
Buying a $400 a sander does not mean you are better wood woorker, does not mean its a better quality finish.

I just bought an ETS 125 sander,
I didn’t buy it because it looks cool or better quality to have. No I bought because I want to minimize dust.

View ChrisForthofer's profile

ChrisForthofer

150 posts in 1703 days


#20 posted 1107 days ago

So folks are “fools” for purchasing a high end power tools? What about people who chose LN planes over Woodriver? What about Rob Cosman dovetail saws over a Buck Brothers? To each their own I guess…

-- -Director of slipshod craftsmanship and attention deficit woodworking

View Greedo's profile

Greedo

467 posts in 1597 days


#21 posted 1107 days ago

lol chipy my post wasn’t meant to come over aggressive towards you or anything. your question is fair and i asked myself that very same question at the beginning.
my main concern at the beginning was also money,” if i want to make money then why should i spend more on expensive tools, am i working just to pay for tools or what?” so i bought Bosch and stuff, while those are expensive enough and pretty decent if not excellent, after you realize that you are using these daily you start wondering if it wouldn’t have been smarter to pay that extra and get the best, get rid of those small annoyances here and there, lack of accessories etc…
i cannot afford a €15.000 felder tablesaw, so instead i bought something within my budget that probably is not as easy or fun to use, but it still cuts the same. but i won’t go bankrupt if i pay €200 more for a sander that is more comfortable than the competition. i won’t sand more with it or better, it will just be less tiring and stressful.
my Kapex miter saw or domino joiner will probably never pay for themselves, but having them makes the task so much more enjoyable.

View Moron's profile

Moron

4666 posts in 2530 days


#22 posted 1107 days ago

Festool Junkie here. Sometimes I have to avoid even looking at the stuff as I get withdrawal symptoms : )

Not sure why folks think their track system isnt any better then the competition and heres my reasons (to name a few). The track also works with their routers, the tools can be calibrated for perfect cuts, they perform stop and start sequences, they can be locked together to form endless long rips, they can bought in convenient lengths, they can be locked to a work bench to perform repetitive “square” cross cuts, ……..and the list goes on. No one elses track system even comes close to the convenience, speed, and versatility of theirs. Mind you, this is only my opinion.

That Kapex miter saw. just about the same thing. Firstly its light wieght in comparison to the compititions, which makes this old man happy as I often carry tools fair distances and up/down steep slopes and the system to carry it isnt awkward : ) It has a small footprint and on a tight job site, every inch can count. It has a double sided laser system, one on each side of the blade, which can be calibrated in both width of the laser line, and where the laser line sits. Not being a fan of laser lines I most often have that part turned off but when bi-secting angles I find the handy dandy jig stored in the body, when I apply the jig to a corner, inside or outside corner, lock the jig, place the jig on the saw with the laser “on”……..no tweeking the miter…….bang on every time. I like the variable speed for the blade. I love the rolling action of the handle that tilts the blade left or right for compound miters and the fact that you can over cut from 45 deg., to almost 48 deg., and the easy lock system. I like that there is an option for pulling the sliding saw forward, to enable the 10” blade to lock, so that a 10” blade can cut 6” crown mould……thats sweet. I love the extension jogs that come with a sliding fence for cutting crown which applying the trim to wall/cabinet/furniture………thats sweet. Soft start is cool and the dust extraction, although not quite what they seem to claim, is the by far, the best out there. Theres more but suffice to say, I state my point.

The routers. Same, easy ratchet system to loosen or tighten the collet, no more guessing if its righty tighty, lefty loosey……. The fact that I can raise or lower the router bit without breaking down the locking system .01mm at a time…..sweet, if speed and accuracy is your thing. Using it in the track system to plunge flutes makes that process easy. its lightwieght, powerful, not near as noisey as some, and again, the dust and chip collection is engineered like no other. No more start and stop to blow away dust and debris to see where the router bit is.

The domino is slightly complicated, quite a few quirks that if forgotten can damage the tool but again, its quick, extremely accurate and is easily adapted to repetitive machining applications. Quite frankly, there is nothing even close to it on the market, they have zero competition on this one. A bit of a learning curve but sweet toy.

The planer……..well I have one and to be honest, ……..I wish they made the bed longer but. You can turn theirs into a mini jointer, mini planer by the use of their jointer stand. That can be extremely handy when “space” is minimal. I really like the easy method of changing the knives, ………quick and that the knives more resemble shaper tooling. Unbelievable how fast one can mimic the look of hand planed wood and aesthetically speaking its an option for keeping ahead of the competition if one does this craft for a living.

I could go on but instead I will remain a Festool Junkie.

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View David Grimes's profile

David Grimes

2072 posts in 1276 days


#23 posted 1107 days ago

I have just decided to go into the telescope mount business and buy ALL the Festool tools (partial stutter unavoidable). ;=)

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

View Chipy's profile

Chipy

374 posts in 1230 days


#24 posted 1107 days ago

Greedo spirited conversation getting to the bottom an issue no more no less. I respect you and all LJ’s opions!
For the record I just might like varry much to own anyone of Festools products but I want to know why!My title was a bit provocative and I didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers.What I have learned up to this point with Festool…..Dust exstration,Quality,Moron good info!You guys should be called Fiercetool owner!

View JuniorJoiner's profile

JuniorJoiner

445 posts in 2076 days


#25 posted 1107 days ago

hmm, export my money to europe, or buy american brands and send it to china.
those thought never even crossed my mind when I bought my festool. I just needed a precise tool for a particular job, and festool was it. I also bought the fein multitool, there are others like it now, but the origional is not some lower price lower quality knockoff kinda doing the same job. it is a quality tool, and I will always spend more money for better quality.
woodworking is the same, why should someone buy your handmade chair when ikea sells one cheaper. they pay for quality.

-- Junior -Quality is never an accident-it is the reward for the effort involved.

View Everett1's profile

Everett1

208 posts in 1170 days


#26 posted 1107 days ago

I don’t own any festool but I’ve seen it at woodcraft and it is definitely quality stuff

Maybe one day I will buy it, after my “lower quality” dewalt stuff breaks lol jk (or more likely if my wife needs to get me a bday gift)

The domino though I can totally see the advantage. Imagine making 20 tables with 28 MT each

I don’t have the wood magazine article number but they did a strength test on all types of joints and the domino was only slightly better than biscuits (according to them)

Basically festool is a Lexus and dewalt (or compatible brands) are a good ol dependable brand Toyota

And with festool your investing in a system with the dust collection and all

-- Ev in Framingham, MA

View EvilNuff's profile

EvilNuff

59 posts in 1264 days


#27 posted 1107 days ago

”...so far the responses to this thread still haven’t convinced me to buy Festools.Tell me why it is worth it to buy a $13000 miter saw…”

First you have an extra zero there, its 1.3k not 13k. :) And the 30 day return policy is the reason. Just go buy the darn thing and take it back within the 30 days. Try it for yourself and then see what you think. Who knows you might return it and think its not worth the cost…but you might change your tune and say wow this really is just better. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

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Chipy

374 posts in 1230 days


#28 posted 1106 days ago

Evilnuff you know were to shuv the decimal point :)..........o.o

View SnowyRiver's profile

SnowyRiver

51451 posts in 2117 days


#29 posted 1106 days ago

All I want to know is where did they get the name Festool? All I can think of when I see the name is Festus on Gunsmoke.

-- Wayne - Plymouth MN

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agallant

429 posts in 1523 days


#30 posted 1106 days ago

Does anyone need BMW 750? You can get from point A to B in a corolla just fine, some people just like to do it in style. If I had money to burn I would buy them but I do consider them a luxury item. The only thing that they make that I really want is the domino cutter.

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

9827 posts in 1255 days


#31 posted 1106 days ago

Per Loren: ”...for the hobbiest with money to spend they provide… emotional validation.”

I’ll keep $s in my pocket with this insight. And I mean that sincerely, because I’ve wondered about the Festool price point myself. Kudos to those that own and use and understand, but thank you, Loren.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive

View rsain's profile

rsain

50 posts in 1125 days


#32 posted 1106 days ago

Snowy – LOL. But here’s your answer:

Festool = Festo. Festo was the original company name. Changed a while back when they started selling in the States (IIRC from my classes). Festo is still used in many markets. It is a combination of the founders names: Albert Fezer and Gottlieb Stoll.

- ryan

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SnowyRiver

51451 posts in 2117 days


#33 posted 1106 days ago

Thanks Ryan. Great info. Now I just need to get that Festus image out of my head :-)

-- Wayne - Plymouth MN

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RZH

73 posts in 1746 days


#34 posted 1106 days ago

I have a domino and I think it was worth it. Real time saver when numerious MT are required and it’s very accurate. I have other tools (most less expensive) that don’t get used as much, and that is where I have my “Buyer’s Remorse”. Unlike most other tools, if I ever have to sell it, I’m convinced that I can recover most of the cost.

-- Ron

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Viktor

447 posts in 2055 days


#35 posted 1106 days ago

”…so far the responses to this thread still haven’t convinced me to buy Festools. Tell me why it is worth it to buy a $1300 miter saw…”
I’ll try. It is not about whether you can replicate the results. You can certainly do it with cheaper tools. For example, I can (and often do) make nearly flawless mortises using a low cost plunge router. The down side of it I spend a lot of time setting it up and making sample cuts. I also fixed the bushings to eliminate slop. But its a hobby for me and part of the fun. And with volume of work that I do not that important.
Imagine you are a pro and using Festool track saw allows you to save 5 min every time you break down a sheet good on the jobsite. What’s your hourly rate? How many sheets will you cut before the extra cost of the saw is recouped? Same with router, Domino and others. You can make a jig to make your cheap tool to do precise work, but how much time did you spent to research, design, and build that jig? Again, what was your hourly rate?

View ChrisForthofer's profile

ChrisForthofer

150 posts in 1703 days


#36 posted 1105 days ago

Why does anyone need convincing of anything? Buy what you can afford and use what you like. If you dont feel you need or cant justify a tool, dont buy it. There are more than a few folks on LJ that swear by Harbor Freight stuff, are they fools for not buying decent tools? Seems to me that some of the anger against Festool is from those who dont want to pay the premium, or cant. Wasted energy and time IMHO.

-- -Director of slipshod craftsmanship and attention deficit woodworking

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NBeener

4806 posts in 1810 days


#37 posted 1105 days ago

GRENADE !!!!

-- -- Neil

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

9827 posts in 1255 days


#38 posted 1105 days ago

Silly me, I thought this Community was a good place for asking exactly these kinds of questions…

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive

View GerryMurray's profile

GerryMurray

22 posts in 1329 days


#39 posted 1100 days ago

Moron, is 100% dead on with his discription of the Kapex mitre saw!
I am a segmented turner, and cut millions of segments and lots of angles, this saw is right on every time!! My dewalt would drive me crazy!
I’ve cut 9” compound mitres for a vessle and first time 99.9% dean on!
this saw is pretty amazing! You just need to figure out what tool is for you.
If you use a tool alot its well worth it!

View Loren's profile

Loren

7464 posts in 2284 days


#40 posted 1100 days ago

There’s a difference in tool needs between people who are learning
woodworking skills for fun and those who already have the skills and
need to compete in the marketplace, producing profitable work.

Festool stuff can help with that, as can specialized tools like corbel
saws, portable chain mortisers, case clamps, line boring machines,
and so forth.

When you know how the work is done and you do the work to put
food on your table, you will often find that you do a lot of unpaid
fussy stuff you don’t get paid for, so when it comes time to make
the cuts and work the surfaces, you know what you want and how
to get it and and the right tools that do it quickly and neatly fit
the bill. Festool makes some of those tools, as do Makita, Bosch,
Dewalt, Triton, Mafell, Lee Valley, Fastcap, and so on.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View jim C's profile

jim C

1452 posts in 1735 days


#41 posted 1100 days ago

I only go with the best. Festool is too cheap

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!

View Greg..the Cajun  Box Sculptor's profile

Greg..the Cajun Box Sculptor

5030 posts in 1945 days


#42 posted 1100 days ago

I buy what I like and what I can afford. I have several festool products and they are are great tools. You get what you pay for and I recognize their quality when I use them.
Anyone who says they would not buy top notch quality tools id they can afford it if full of sawdust.
Generally, the people who knock expensive quality atr those who cannot afford it.

-- If retiring is having the time to be able to do what you enjoy then I have always been retired.

View jusfine's profile

jusfine

2280 posts in 1562 days


#43 posted 1100 days ago

Jay, that sounds like awesome tools to take photos with! I enjoy photography as well, so I understand your passion.

I am not going to get into the cost of the tools, I have always spent more money on tools than I probably needed to, but it is one of life’s enjoyments for me, so I part with the cash.

For me the benefit is the superior dust collection and their new approach to some of the tool’s design and feel.

Never going to convince a guy that $800.00 is worth a Domino (closer to $1000.00 in Canada) when he thinks that is enough $$ to buy a top quality table saw… they are only worth what you are willing to pay for them. :)

-- Randy "You are judged as much by the questions you ask as the answers you give..."

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Moron

4666 posts in 2530 days


#44 posted 1099 days ago

Funny garyp. Just seems odd that the guy who sends me some work got to use my kapex and when I left for a holiday he asked to borrow my kapex while his Hitachi stayed in the tool crib : )

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Knothead62

2364 posts in 1597 days


#45 posted 1099 days ago

Like the bumper sticker- If Rollls Royce is such a good car, why don’t you see more of them on the road?
Many times things are purchased because they are expensive but not necessarily better than other brands.
I would be surprised if Lexus didn’t use a lot of Toyota parts. I had a ‘66 Olds that had a part that was common for all GM cars for about 6 years! Many cars use common parts and/or platforms, in the industry language. Example: PT Cruiser is built on a Neon platform.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

2809 posts in 1880 days


#46 posted 1099 days ago

This is a very good question. I’m not knocking the quality of Festools. The question that always comes to mind is: Does a tool that costs 2-4 x more perform 2-4 x better. I think they are overpriced. I can’t afford them, but I’m sure they are fine tools, but 2-4 x better; I’m not so sure; like comparing a Ferrari with a Ford. They both work well but one costs a lot more than the other. Also I question resale value being a feature. How many people would sell a tool, especially one as good as a Festool. I suppose you could say a contractor goes out of business and is forced to sell off his tools, but it doesn’t sound like a common occurance. Money has never been sacred to me. If I have it I spend it. If I were rich, I would buy Festool and Ferrari and a yacht, etc.

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

2411 posts in 2379 days


#47 posted 1099 days ago

Mr Ron – it is not that much better…Never is any 1:1 on cost vs. Quality.
You always find these things are more exponential. You always get something a bit better, for a LOT more money

Don’t own any Festool, have used it in classes – and I covet a Domino.
However the idea that the plunge router is so much better than a PC892 is a much harder sell.
They guys around here that do segmented turning use a tablesaw sled that has premade wedges for the angles so that their seams are nuts on both left and right as they use the same wedge on both sides of the blade. Maybe you can dial in the Kapex each time quickly – but you make the jig+ wedges one time…so the time savings on future projects would be nothing.
Their sanders are lower vibration, but I didn’t really notice so much using a 6 inch disk. The big advantage on Festool sanders is the dust collection. So if you buy one without the dust collector and just put on a paper mask and have at it one day… I think you would conclude the money on the sander was wasted. (for how you might operate)

To the Original Poster – - you should note on here that you never see anybody say anything bad about Festool quality or utility, it is all a price vs. Value argument.

Only You will know the answer to that…Maybe there will be 0 or only 1 tool you will feel justified in buying festool. Maybe only the tool you use ALL THE TIME, would be a good idea. If you only use your mitre saw once a week to cut some stock to rough length….the Kapex would be a waste of money…not a bad tool FOR YOU.

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

View jusfine's profile

jusfine

2280 posts in 1562 days


#48 posted 1099 days ago

Well said, DrDirt!

-- Randy "You are judged as much by the questions you ask as the answers you give..."

View JimDaddyO's profile

JimDaddyO

286 posts in 1715 days


#49 posted 1098 days ago

I won’t be buying Festool.
Yes, I agree that they are superbly engineered and maybe even the highest quality tools around. My skill level and budget will not allow it. The tool has to “pay” for itself. Besides, my tools get stored in an old garden shed. I can get a Makita or Bosch miter saw for 1/2 the price, but it is not 1/2 the tool. Like many things, there is a rule of diminishing returns on a purchase. I cannot justify (even to myself) the kind of outlay for the return I will get on it. That being said, I do not begrudge anyone for the tools they buy. As long as they are happy with the purchase, they earned the money to get it, and that is all that really matters.

-- I still have all my fingers

View bravozulu's profile

bravozulu

14 posts in 1118 days


#50 posted 1097 days ago

I lost a job because of dirt and debris in a living area where the work was done. If I would have had decent dust collection in which the vacuum hooked directly into the machine (sanders , in this case) my career would have been better off.

Festool might be expensive, but life with Festool is better and unquestionably worth it.

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