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Congress is just out of touch

by lwllms
posted 07-26-2011 04:26 AM


1 2 3 4 ... 22 next »
1070 replies

1070 replies so far

View murch's profile

murch

1184 posts in 1348 days


#1 posted 07-26-2011 01:55 PM

lwllms – Same everywhere friend. Your debt is trillions where as ours is “only” billions but it still took some
amount of stupidity and greed by our previous gov. and bankers to get us into such a mess.
I would dearly like to see them all rot in jail but it looks like the entrenched interests look after their own.
The sob’s.

-- A family man has photos in his wallet where his money used to be.

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

906 posts in 2336 days


#2 posted 07-26-2011 03:29 PM

My first clue was during 2008 elections in the US. McCain couldn’t recall exactly how many houses he owned. At a time when thousands were facing foreclosure on the only major asset they had – their house – one of the candidates running for president couldn’t recall precisely how many he owned.

Yeah, I think they are ought of touch!

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

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coloradoclimber

548 posts in 2791 days


#3 posted 07-26-2011 03:37 PM

um, lwllms, I think you mis-labeled you post, did you mean to say, “The American People are just out of touch”?

Our elected officials didn’t get there by themselves. If they are there we must like them, we put them there.

What is the average voter turn out in the United States? Now compare that to how many people voted on American Idol, or how many people update their Facebook account daily, or how many people spend more time researching their fantasy football league than learning about health care or deficit spending.

Sounds like the US political officials are doing just what they were put in place to do, run amok and take care of special interests. Just the way we like it, apparently.

View dbhost's profile

dbhost

5386 posts in 1955 days


#4 posted 07-26-2011 03:59 PM

I completely understand the frustration. But don’t just blame the house of representatives, there is PLENTY of blame to go around.

Last time a Democrat said he was going to raise taxes only on the wealthiest Americans, I ended up having a $1,500.00 tax bill that year, as a college student, working part time as a gas station attendant… Richest Americans my fanny!

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1897 days


#5 posted 07-26-2011 04:06 PM

My position has always been ….. that nothing significant will EVER change until/unless we get two things:

1) Significant lobbying reform, and

2) Public financing of all Federal campaigns.

In other words … get the $$ out of politics.

I’m not holding my breath.

-- -- Neil

View richgreer's profile

richgreer

4525 posts in 1798 days


#6 posted 07-26-2011 05:07 PM

I try to avoid politics on this board, but I will make an exception today.

It bothers me greatly that a sizable number of congressmen appear to think that defaulting on the national debt is “no big deal”. It’s a HUGE deal that would do irreversible harm to this country. Those same people seem to believe that compromise is a dirty word. No – Finding compromises is what governing is all about.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

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Bearpie

2591 posts in 1741 days


#7 posted 07-27-2011 02:24 AM

We are (congress is) sending billions of dollars overseas in aid to all the problem countries with little or no strings attached. I say we cut all that out and pay off our debt first, and if there is anything left, help the poor in our own country. We have done too much for all the ungrateful SOBs out there and did we hear of them sending aid to us during our hurricanes, tornadoes and floods? If they want aid, they have got to straighten out/up.

-- Erwin, Jacksonville, FL

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Ritty

63 posts in 1520 days


#8 posted 07-27-2011 02:34 AM

everyone if u like politics watch DRINKINGWITHBOB.COM and its not in all caps hes really good and hits the nail on the head everytime

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1646 days


#9 posted 07-27-2011 04:16 AM

@Bearpie: I’m with you. I hear them(Obamy) talking “your SS checks won’t get sent” “VA benies will stop” I haven’t heard we will not pay countries we are supporting or Michele won’t be taking any vacations to Africa for a while.

-- Life is good.

View Jim Jakosh's profile

Jim Jakosh

12011 posts in 1829 days


#10 posted 07-27-2011 04:17 AM

I try to avoid politics on here but this is the non shop section so it is fair game. I’m a skeptic when it comes to believing what comes out a politician’s mouth. I don’t think they run their households like they use OUR money.
There are changes that need to be made but unfortunately , the only way legislation can get introduced is through one of the 535 Royal families and they would never do such a thing to torpedo the good life they have.
That job should not be a life time job, they need to serve and then g back to a regular job and their pay for a service job should end there.
They should have to pay a part of their medical coverage while in office and it should end when they are out of office. Madatory Obamacare for them while we pay for it!
Their retirement should be Social Security at the same rate of payment as all of us- no pay for life even after one term. If they had a stake in the Social Security system, they would have a reason to fix it. We have a big stake and we can’t!

If you have a business and you screw up and take unhealthy risks and fail, you go bankrupt and have to start over if you have the drive to do so. The big banks and car companies should have had to do that too. They learned no lesson. Many banks are pulling shenanigans with the foreclosures and refinancing just like they did when they gave out mortgages with out backing or a means to pay ( which set up the borrower to fail) and we may see more financial trouble as a result. Who is supposed to be looking out for this stuff??

The country is out of control and a few are getting filthy rich at the expense of the rest of the Americans. These rich people buy off the politicians to make favorable legislation for them that puts them further out ahead of the average guy. We need honest politicians in office that represent the people. Lobbyists jobs should be eliminated.

All legislation should have a review date set up when it becomes law to see if it is needed in 3 or 5 years. Some of the things we are paying for are reintroduced in new bills and we are paying twice for the same thing. There is no check and balance. What a way to run a business!!

Neil is right. We need to get the big money out of politics. They pretty much buy the office with the BS advertizing and then it boils down to two rich people we have to choose from. I think all candidates should have an equal amount of air time to explain their position on the issues ( and for maybe 2 months before the election only) and all of them should be on the ballot and let the one with most votes win. We supported that in Iraq. So we have 56 candidates for president. Why not?? Boy would that change things- the Royals would never bite on that one!!

Boy, I’m getting hotter the more I think about our political system so I should quit right here…......

-- Jim Jakosh.....Practical Wood Products...........Learn something new every day!! Variety is the Spice of Life!!

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murch

1184 posts in 1348 days


#11 posted 07-27-2011 08:38 AM

Bearpie – the U.S. and many developed countries in the west have contributed aid to the 3rd world that I’m sure is very much appreciated by the starving that we helped to save.
However, the Gov’s of some of these countries seem utterly corrupt and you can’t help wondering
how much aid actually makes it through to where it is needed.
Still, when I see news reports it is very hard not to feel sorry for those poor wretches and give the
charities a bit more.

Just on your other point, would Bush have accepted aid from, say, China, India or Russia during Kathrina?
How would the U.S feel about having to take over-sea’s aid?
Would Bush be diminshed in the eyes of the U.S. people by looking for help i.e admitting weakness.
I’m not in any way trying to make light of an awful tradgedy. I’m just interested in your (and others) opinions.

-- A family man has photos in his wallet where his money used to be.

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1646 days


#12 posted 07-27-2011 03:00 PM

I(and many more on here) am a Vietnam Vet. Yes it’s very hard to ignore the little kid that’s hungry staring at you while you’re eating. But you have to keep in mind that same little kid could throw a grenade in your bunker
or put out a pistol and shoot you or carry a bomb into a group and blow everyone up. Meanwhile the people in power in this little kids country live a life of luxury.
Could we take overseas aid? Sure why not, China already owns us. Why not let them pay. Japan..we rebuilt their country after they massacred us at Pearl Harbor. Somoila …we keep pouring money down that rat hole…for what? Afganistan,Iraq? why?
Meanwhile,our own politicians,under the guise of “helping the American workingman” are scr%$#^& us silly and doing their best to break our backs.
I’m in favor of term limits for both houses and also voting out all that are in there now. The American people are getting more fed up with this bunch everyday…maybe some of them are right….no more business as usual!

-- Life is good.

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1897 days


#13 posted 07-27-2011 03:04 PM

Jim Jakosh:

Not only do I agree with everything you said, but … I’ll go a step further.

APOLOGIES, in advance.

They’re all robbing us, Folks. I think the worst thing any of us can DO is to be a partisan.

I’m a registered NON-PARTISAN. Have been since I first registered.

I get my info the way I get my nutrition—from a wide variety of sources, and with as LITTLE processing as possible.

Most people listen to what they already agree with. What good is that ?

Most of what I hear on any forum that allows politics is blindly “party over principle.” In other words, pretty much hypocritical BS. It was okay when MY guy did it, but now that YOUR guy is in office, ohhhhhhhh, no. It’s NOT okay.

Which is like 4th graders’ logic.

While they keep us all blindly conservative or blindly liberal … they loot the store.
While they dig up the most DIVISIVE issues they possibly can, to enrage “us” against “them,” they do it SO THAT the angry ones will donate generously to their campaigns.

It’s a very sick system. If you’re blindly partisan, you’re a symptom of that sickness.

Stop going to your favorite news sources. They only tell you what you already believe. Mix it up a little. Mix it up a lot. Turn off your radio, too, while you’re at it.

I have NO interest in being told what to think. I can think pretty well. I want facts. Most of the “news sources” that most people turn to … tell them what to think.

I’d rather have an UN-informed electorate than a MIS-informed electorate, and—watching most peoples’ takes on political stuff—we have a MIS-informed electorate.

We’re all entitled to our own opinions, but NOT our own facts. Get facts. Best you can.

Coffee time :-)

-- -- Neil

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sarahss

254 posts in 1372 days


#14 posted 07-27-2011 04:25 PM

I’m just sick of it from all of them. Every one of them should be voted out in the next election cycles—from the White House on down. They have only their interest in mind, not ours. Most of us live within our means, and can’t just raise our personal debt ceiling or increase taxes whenever we want to. How many times my husband and I have joked that we just need somebody that we can levy taxes against!!

I’m sick of the sense of entitlement that lots of citizens have too. It’s just compounding the problem. Those who need help don’t seem to get it, and others just grape the system. If we could just have some common sense spending, some of the problem would be fixed overnight. The government has taken what was meant to be a safety net and perverted it into a multiheaded monster that we can’t seem to tame. We give money to countries who hate us, but people in Joplin, MO are living in TENTS! Where are their FEMA trailers?

I just hope we don’t see all of our retirement plans go into the crapper if the US credit rating drops.

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1646 days


#15 posted 07-27-2011 06:08 PM

Unfortunately we have people standing up on TV(Cantor for one) that is saying”let it default and see what happens” That #$%^&^% would just say, well I didn’t think it would be like that. Meanwhile his paycheck keeps on coming.
Like someone else said—let them pay into SS and see if they still want to play games with their retirement.
Tell the congress they won’t get paid this month and see how fast the damn budget gets fixed.

Remember all of this the next election. It’s the only thing you have to fight with.

-- Life is good.

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1897 days


#16 posted 07-27-2011 06:10 PM

The average American household that carries consumer debt carries $14,687 worth OF consumer debt. Since over 50% of personal bankruptcies are due to health care costs, it’s not safe to assume that everybody’s loading up their credit cards with designer clothing and plasma TVs.

Sometimes, financial crises hit, but you still need to spend the money on the things that you deem most important.

I think it’s all pretty complicated. I also think the idea of welfare or Medicare fraud is an easy answer, but one that’s defied significant and repeated efforts to weed it out.

-- -- Neil

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1646 days


#17 posted 07-27-2011 06:17 PM

I agree NBeener. My personal debt is not even 10% of that figure but, the biggest expense my wife and I have is medical insurance. Can’t do with it,can’t do without it.
Three places they could cut costs would be Welfare,Medicare and the war in Afganistan.
I guess guys like you and me aren’t supposed to be smart enough to figure stuff like that out. The politicians seem to have an attitude that they always know best.

-- Life is good.

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sarahss

254 posts in 1372 days


#18 posted 07-27-2011 07:01 PM

I love how the prez has made the commednt that the average American really doesn’t understand the debt ceiling. While that may be true in part—I’m a healthcare worker not a bean counter for instance—I do understand basic goesintas and goesouttas and I also understand how to live in below the goesintas. Seems like the feds could learn from that. I also understand what happens to someone’s credit rating when the declare bankruptcy (or default). Seems pretty simple to me too. The goesouttas can’t exceed the goesintas, or there’s a problem.

I agree with Howie—don’t pay them until they do their jobs. It recently worked in California. Once the lawmakers had one week with no pay or per diem, the were miracoulsy able to compromise on a budget.

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DrDirt

2542 posts in 2465 days


#19 posted 07-27-2011 07:33 PM

I get disgusted by the use of the most vulnerable always when cuts are necessary -
Default is not an option and is NOT going to happen on August 3. The revenue is there – but gosh it would be great if we paid our debt service, soldiers, Social Security and Medicare but sent the ATF, EPA and HHS departments and others home for a few weeks while this was sorted out.
Gosh – a week or two without the department of the Interior, or Bureau of Indian Affairs working…I don’t see a big down side.
Government gets forced to prioritize where limited money gets spent.
The government is NOT running out of money on August 2 – that is when we again max our credit card.
Repubs did the same thing – Governors as well – when California was in trouble – Schwarzenegger says we have to lay off Police and release 44,000 criminals onto the streets….Really?? Turning loose the crimials is the “first and least painful socially cuts to be made?”
We get to the debt – yes the graphic was on Fox, but if someone has a better “accurate” number please use.
Under Bill Clinton the average deficit ran 500 Million dollars per DAY. Under Bush with the unfunded wars and medicare D – - 1.5 Billion dollars DEBT per day.
Now under Obama 4.2Billion every single day!. So when they “painfully slash” 20Billion from a program, that is merely 4 days of borrowing.
Obama was correct…but only when he was a Senator when he said:

”The fact that we’re here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means ‘The buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”

That was in 2006… So was he just Full of Crap THEN, or is he a liar NOW. Those are the only two choices.

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

View GregD's profile

GregD

634 posts in 1859 days


#20 posted 07-27-2011 07:52 PM

It seems to me that governing well is very hard.
Issues are often complex.
Important concerns are often in conflict.

-- Greg D.

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1646 days


#21 posted 07-27-2011 10:22 PM

All right, this does it…...Mooshell….no more million dollar vacations aboard AF2!
No more $500 designer sneakers to wear to the soup kitchen.
Things are going to get serious so your mother will have to move out of the WH.
I think Slick Willie should be brought back. At least when he lied to us he did it with flair.

-- Life is good.

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RockyTopScott

1141 posts in 2202 days


#22 posted 07-28-2011 02:05 AM

If your house were flooded (debt) would you raise the ceiling or turn off the water?

-- “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.” ― Thomas Sowell

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TopamaxSurvivor

15024 posts in 2399 days


#23 posted 07-28-2011 10:07 AM

Make no mistake about it. Speaker of the House, Boner and the Tea party are at the bottom of this created crisis. The last 70 times it has been raised, it was a housekeeping issue. What the Koch Brothers and the corporate interests have done is create a monster they cannot control. All these Tea Party people do not see to know the difference between what they are supposed to say to get elected and what they are supposed to do for teh big money when they get in WA DC.

Medicare and Social Security are being called handouts when in fact they are insurance programs. We have all been paying the the premiums all out lives. They have a surplus, but the politicians have borrowed that money and put it in teh general fund. When you look at your tax bill, those insurance premiums are bigger than your income tax, for most Americans. This whole thing about a balanced budget amendment is to force the gov’t to turn teh cash cow (Social Security and Medicare) over to teh Wall Street Gang and Insurance companies so guys like Dollar Bill McGuire can skim 1.74 BILLION off for running companies like United Health Care for a few years. The reason they are against single payer is because they know the cash cow will end and they can’t compete if it is a option. I’m not for socialized medicine, but when i was a young journeyman in teh trade and our first kid was born I could easily pay teh bill with or without ins. Today, every one is screwed without ins unless you are in the top 5% that the idiots do not want to tax.

Speaking of tax bargains, the top 20 managers on Wall Street make over a BILLION a year. They pay no taxes, not even capital gains. They have special provisions in the tax code to take deduction for future potential losses!! I could go on, but what the hell is the point? I see a lot of opinions and ideas about what should be done in this thread, but very little fact.

The Koch’s and their ilk have done a very good job of brainwashing the public and laying out a long range plan to eliminate the middle class. BTW, Old man Koch was thrown out of the R party back in teh 50s or 60s because he was basically a John Bircher. The Supreme Court in has rule there is no limit and no accountability about how much or where money comes into campaigns. Most people are so busy trying to make a living or find a job, they have no time to worry about these things. That is what the fascists want and need in order to succeed. This country has swung so far to teh right, Eisenhower and Nixon who be Democrats today!! ;-(( Ike warned about Industrial Military Complex, it is eating the middle class right now!!

You can click the link in my signature line and read about the 2 Santas. I always wondered what the hell are they dong to us. I makes perfect sense when you read it. You have to know the facts and have an open mind, not be a party follower who will follow the leaders through teh gates of Hell like Jim Jones’ followers did. Unlike like Jim Jones, the current crop are not going to commit suicide too, they are laughing all the way to the bank while millions look for a job and live in their cars!

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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Roger Clark aka Rex

6940 posts in 2158 days


#24 posted 07-28-2011 02:35 PM

Well, this is the sort of conversation that always leads nowhere. Whatever your political affiliations or not, none serve the needs of the country and it’s “regular” citizens, – those that are the backbone of our society and who never seem to be able to find or take part in the American Dream, but they sure share nightmares.
The main objective of the political camps seems to be to retain the status quo where either hardship does not affect them or they can make even more money at the expense of “lesser beings”, Self righteousness, greed and self preservation is their only concern.
I don’t hold any faith that this political circus will change without anything short of a revolution by the masses and downtrodden, but yikes, that’s un-American??
Entitlement program comments particularly make my blood boil. They are entitlement programs because “most” people have paid insurance premiums all their working life to receive them, it’s not a “freebee gift”, it’s “our” money – and we need it now ….. just like the ad states. :-) The big improvement to cut the strain of paying entitlement program recipients is to ONLY pay it to those that have actually paid the mandatory premiums during their working life. Entitlements programs are well funded if ALL those who never paid the dues for it stopped receiving it, but is there anyone with balls in the government going to go for that
??? This is but one sad state of affairs with only the status quo to look forward to and the deeds required to rescue the system way out of politician’s bag of tricks.
Too much greed is the root cause of this crisis, and they will never agree to any REAL solutions, and you can be sure that these “Captians of Industry and Government will not be the last to evacuate the sinking ship, no, they’ll be first off and sell the lifeboats and set sail for tax havens.

-- Roger-R, Republic of Texas. "Always look on the Bright Side of Life" - An eyeball to eyeball confrontation with a blind person is as complete waste of Time.

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HorizontalMike

6960 posts in 1637 days


#25 posted 07-28-2011 02:45 PM

What Topa said.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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TopamaxSurvivor

15024 posts in 2399 days


#26 posted 07-28-2011 06:04 PM

The debt ceiling and deficit spending are two different animals. The debt ceiling was established in 1913 to try to keep Wilson from getting us into WWI. It was used a little to keep Roosevelt from getting us into WWII to support the Allies. The Japanese took care of that issue and teh rest is history as they say. Article 14 of the Constitution says the debt of the US shall not be questioned; therefore, when push comes to shove, the president or treasury secretary should be able to just pay the bills that come in.

The facts are Obama’s Administration has cut spending by 1.25 Trillion. The largest cuts in history. Bush’s tax cuts for the greedy at the top, his BS drug benefit making it illegal to negotiate good prices with the pharmas and 2 wars fought off budget by special appropriations would balance teh budget. If all the laws that are on the books now are allowed to run their course, the budget will be balanced in about 6 or 8 ye rs. Make no mistake, this BS that is going on is to put the last cash cow there is to raid in the hands of Wall Street and the insurance companies to leech off.

Currently, the Social Security Trust fund notes are not allowed to be sold in the open market. The leeches are licking their chops. They have cut middle class wages in after inflation terms by 50% in the last 30 years, wiped out many people’s retirements and now they want the little pittance that remains, They want it ALL!

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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Howie

2656 posts in 1646 days


#27 posted 07-28-2011 07:26 PM

I still say that if the American people demanded that Congress’ paycheck stopped if the government defaults, the whole damn bunch would vote for anything to have a budget deal.
I watched a congressman on TV this morning talking about the budget and lo and behold it comes out he is behind in his child support and lost his condo to foreclosure…..and this ass is telling us what we need!!!
Remember all of this your next election. Vote the whole bunch out.

-- Life is good.

View crank49's profile

crank49

3481 posts in 1694 days


#28 posted 07-28-2011 09:00 PM

“Obama administration has cut spending by 1.25 trillion?” I am ROFLMAO

That was a promise of what they plan to do within ten years.
Similar promises have been make before and never kept, of course.

At the same time they have increased spending, not planed, but already done it, by 4.5 trillion.

To put the problem into perspective; if I was the USA:
I would make $55,000 a year.
I would have $280,000 in credit card debt.
I would have an operating budget, cost of living, of $75,000 per year.
But I am going to fix this because I promise to reduce my budget by $2,300 dollars a year; 10 years from now.

I have an IQ of 155, but I don’t need that to see how totally stupid this is.

Those 5% that some folks claim are not paying their fair share are already paying way more than half of all taxes that get paid. They are the employers of way more than half the population as well. When you raise taxes on a corporation, who do you think pays it? Hint; they have an obligation to their stock holders to make profit. They reduce overhead, i.e. payroles, or they increase prices for the goods and services they sell. Or, alternately, they move headquarters and manufacturing offshore to where taxes are not so high. How well has that been working out for ya’ll.

Not very well for me. Cost me two jobs in the last three years.
Thankfully I have my wood shop to work in, for the time being.
I don’t plan on letting me go any time soon.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

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helluvawreck

15983 posts in 1590 days


#29 posted 07-28-2011 09:41 PM

Well, I’m neither Republican nor Democrat. I don’t like either party and as far as I’m concerned they are both for big government in different ways and neither one of them are going to do anything serious about cutting the debt or reducing the size of the government. The only thing that they know how to do is kick the can down the road and do everything they can to get reelected even if it’s the wrong thing which is what they usually do. The middle class is the backbone of this country and they are being systematically destroyed and the top 2 or 3 percent have never made out so good. They don’t pay any taxes to amount to anything nor do the large corporations. They have a lot of power and influence and the middle class, the poor, and the elderly just seem to try to hang on as best they can but they are not doing very well. It get’s old watching big corporations and big banks getting bailed out and loaned government money at the taxpayer’s expense. The financial sector and the large corporations have most of the power and they protect the big banks and the Federal Reserve and it’s fiat currency which seems intent on inflating it’s value away. Welcome to Happy Days!!!! The debt will continue to grow and our money will continue to loose it’s value until a lot of things break from the strain.

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

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DrDirt

2542 posts in 2465 days


#30 posted 07-28-2011 11:00 PM

The current power structure (Both Dem and Repub) are currupt bastards.

However the class warfare argument is a ruse to keep the majority focused on bickering and finger pointing at our neighbors rather than looking at the pigs in Washington and asking WTF are you guys doing?
The top 1% in all societies have always done well – whether you talk of European Kings, the old money in the US, like Carnegie, Rockefeller or Hunt or Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

However the idea that the rich don’t pay their fair share is just a wonderful red herring – helps to have us peasants take our eyes off what is really happening.

The most recent numbers (updated in October 2010) show that the top 1 percent of tax returns covered an amazing 38 percent of all income taxes—nearly doubling the share of the total income they earned (20 percent). The top 5 percent of taxpayers (earning above $159,000) earned 35 percent of all income, but paid the big majority of all income taxes—59 percent.

On the other side of the economic divide, the bottom 50 percent of all taxpayers (who filed nearly 70 million returns) covered only 2.7 percent of the taxes, though they earned 12.8 percent of the nation’s total adjusted gross income.

I don’t make it into that top 5% group, but when the top 1% earns 20% of the dollars but pays 40% of the taxes for the entire country….exactly how is it that they are underpaying?
The corporate stuff – like GE paying bumpkus on their 5Billion in US profits is indefensible – but Hey, Thats what being the Presidents advisor buys you in addition to locking in all the Green Energy money.

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

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Planeman40

503 posts in 1484 days


#31 posted 07-28-2011 11:06 PM

We get what we vote for. In the words of that great philosopher Pogo, “We have met the enemy and he is us!”

Planeman

-- Always remember: It is a mathematical certainty that half the people in this country are below average in intelligence!

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RockyTopScott

1141 posts in 2202 days


#32 posted 07-28-2011 11:59 PM

Clearly what is indefensible to me is there are some individuals and corporate structures that pay no taxes on all of thieir earned income.

-- “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.” ― Thomas Sowell

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patcollins

1003 posts in 1588 days


#33 posted 07-29-2011 12:29 AM

Anyone that believes the R’s and D’s are any different is a complete and utter fool.

Many people get upset by gridlock in Washington but they fail to realize that our founding fathers designed the legislative branch that way in hopes that it would be where bad legislation went to die. The surplus of the Clinton years was not due to any one person, what it was due to was the gridlock and fighting between the repbs and democrats kept alot of crap bills and pet projects from passing.

My solutions
1) get rid of refundable tax credits, ie someone that pays in $1k in taxes can get a refund of $4k, just call it what it is welfare
2) have something similar to the AMT for the corporate tax, GE paying nothing in taxes was just wrong but many companies do it
3) if it cant vote it cant make campaign contributions (ie companies, unions, foreign nationals)
4) eliminate automatic withholding of taxes, make everyone write a check come tax time, they would care alot more where that money was going to
5) elected officials must put expense reports on their webpages with itemized statements and their “office spending”
6) a bill must only contain the main subject of the bill, ie no funding to monitor cow farts in a crime bill

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patcollins

1003 posts in 1588 days


#34 posted 07-29-2011 12:33 AM

Furthermore, we treat our politicians way too much like our favorite football teams. It has turned into “yay us, boo them” where charisma, attractiveness, and a pleasant voice is what wins elections.

George Washington or Abraham Lincoln would have never been elected in modern times

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RockyTopScott

1141 posts in 2202 days


#35 posted 07-29-2011 12:38 AM

Cr1….I agree hence my term “earned”

-- “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.” ― Thomas Sowell

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pierce85

508 posts in 1285 days


#36 posted 07-29-2011 01:05 AM

I was going to stay out of this one, but I’ll just follow HorizontalMike’s lead – What Topa said.

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RockyTopScott

1141 posts in 2202 days


#37 posted 07-29-2011 01:18 AM

Some of what Topa said = fact

Some = fiction

Cr1 hit the nail on the head.

-- “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.” ― Thomas Sowell

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Greg In Maryland

422 posts in 1721 days


#38 posted 07-29-2011 01:22 AM

Here is the federal debt, in billions since 1990, with the incumbent president:

National Debt

Year Billions President
1990 3206 Bush
1991 3598 Bush
1992 4001 Bush
1993 4351 Bush
1994 4643 Clinton
1995 4920 Clinton
1996 5181 Clinton
1997 5369 Clinton
1998 5478 Clinton
1999 5605 Clinton
2000 5628 Clinton
2001 5769 Bush
2002 6198 Bush
2003 6760 Bush
2004 7354 Bush
2005 7905 Bush
2006 8451 Bush
2007 8951 Bush
2008 9654 Bush
2009 10413 Obama
2010 11875 Obama

1st Bush increased the debt by 1383 billion in four years
Clinton increased the debt by 985 billion in eight years
2nd Bush increased the debt by 3885 in eight years
Obama increased the debt by 1462 in the two years that he has been in office (that there are records for)

The above numbers are from this page on wikipedia:

Now, there might be some variance in the way I computed the differences or even the base numbers, but the magnitude does not change the conclusion.

So then what is the conclusion?

Greg

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Howie

2656 posts in 1646 days


#39 posted 07-29-2011 01:30 AM

So then what is the conclusion?

@Greg…my conclusion would be that all of them intended to screw us!!!

-- Life is good.

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RockyTopScott

1141 posts in 2202 days


#40 posted 07-29-2011 01:35 AM

Greg….according to CBSNews, that overtly conservative news organization, the national debt is now closer to $14 trillion.

-- “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.” ― Thomas Sowell

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jtash

30 posts in 1806 days


#41 posted 07-29-2011 02:05 AM

Hey Topa get brainwashed by Soros?

We have a spending problem. End of story. To fix it we need to address spending. After that we can fix the tax code. But we can’t tax our way out of this.
Remember who started baseline bugeting? Look it up, read about it. This is what is killing the country. When they talk about cuts it’s reductions in the increase not real cuts like people think. Remember the “children are going to starve” crap and “old people will be eating dog food” from back in the 90’s when Newt and Clinton balanced the budget? Cut the spending and fix the tax code. No one should get away with out paying taxes rich or poor.

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BobTheFish

361 posts in 1275 days


#42 posted 07-29-2011 03:17 AM

Ungh, I haven’t the time to read everything since I last left this off.

To CR1 and those that are arguing against the “entitlements”, and whom directly stated, “I am not my brother’s keeper” I have a few things to say.

First of all, that whole thing about being one’s brother’s keeper is from the story of cain and abel. After being jealous and murdering his brother, god asks cain where his brother is, and Cain replies, “Am I my brother’s keeper?”, which is often taken that it’s somewhat rhetorical, and is Cain saying that he isn’t, and is somewhat impudent before our maker. The question the reader is left to ask is, “aren’t we our brothers’ keepers?”, to which the answer is generally agreed upon as, “yes” and that we have a duty to look after and tend to our fellow man.

Secondarily, this country has always had a place in its heart towards the otherwise helpless.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door. “

No matter how horrific someone’s situation is, our nation has typically been aligned with the belief that we will take on the unwanted, and give them a chance they wouldn’t have otherwise. You can argue that this means that we’ve been more than willing to open our borders to let in those that might not have opportunity elsewhere, but, then again, isn’t it often we hear that charity should start at home before we give to those outside our national borders? In stating that we should take care of those at home that are poor and sick before we take care of those elsewhere, aren’t we still stating there’s a need to feed the hungry, heal the sick, and shelter the homeless, even if we’re reprioritizing the location?

Just some food for thought before people go spouting off about how they’re only responsible unto themselves.

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Marc5

304 posts in 2065 days


#43 posted 07-29-2011 03:38 AM

GO OBAMA!!!!!!!

-- Marc

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DrDirt

2542 posts in 2465 days


#44 posted 07-29-2011 03:44 AM

Yes Bob the fish – we have been aligned in the belief that we accept the unwanted and give them opportunity.

However that is a different mission than what we actually do today which is to take in the unwanted put them in public housing get them a vista card (food stamps) sign them up for the WIC program, give them preferential hiring as minorities to those that choose to work….

The US mission has NEVER been to feed the hungry, heal the sick and shelter the homeless. That is the Christian mission of helping our neighbors, but never the intended role of government until Woodrow Wilson.

Little history – there was no federal income tax at all until 1913. Somehow we still survived as a country, through the revolution and civil war, invented the airplane and Ford got rolling with assembly lines….all before the IRS existed.
The whole progressive movement and taxation as a redistribution of wealth didn’t exist for the first almost 150 years of the country. We were financed by fees, trade tariffs and land deals. Taxation was local at the state and local levels.
We cannot get back to that level but when 50% of the population pays only 2% of the taxes, we have a problem that too many folks have no actual stake in the business of the country. Nevermind that 47% of the population is receiving government assistance.
There are good and needed programs – but we cannot survive when 1/2 of the people are on the dole. There just is no way the system can support that percentage of the population.

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

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RockyTopScott

1141 posts in 2202 days


#45 posted 07-29-2011 03:53 AM

Bob,

Your quote from the statue of liberty is all about freedom and opportunity, not entitlements.

When did having cable or a cell phone become a right.?....when some politician figured they could take tax me on my production and use it to buy votes.

I agree we, as a society should help the sick and the homeless if they cannot provide for themselves. There are those among us, thru no fault of their own that cannot fend for themselves. I don’t understand why we should help the lazy or those that think someone owes them something.

-- “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.” ― Thomas Sowell

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TopamaxSurvivor

15024 posts in 2399 days


#46 posted 07-29-2011 03:57 AM

Actually what I said about the debt of the US will not be questioned is from a 1935 Supreme Court Ruling, not the Constitution.

The US budget cycle ends on Oct 31, so the first year of Obama’s Admin is left over from the budget of Congress and Bush Admin.

There are plenty of tax loopholes and they are put in by the corporate Representatives bought and paid for US and multinational corps. You can say we have the highest corp. tax rate, 35%, but we also have the most loopholes. US ranks 26th in corporate tax collection in the industrialized nations.

While they are talking about cutting education, Social Security and Medicare ( which are solvent, the bastards just borrowed the money from us) there are a lot of corps that pay no income tax. GE is a prime example, paying no tax and getting billions of US contracts. The GAO (Gov’t Accountability Office) brought this up 3 years ago, but the corporate whores in Congress did nothing. Here is a fresh look: http://www.greenlining.org/resources/pdfs/CorporateAmericaUntaxed.pdf

You may have heard in the news about the FAA being shut down because Congress can’t seem to pass the funding bill. Obama declared the FAA essential and keeps the majority of it running by executive order. I am wondering what the oil billionaires are going to do about their patsies shutting down their rural Texas airports? They are the only people who use them for their private jets. ;-)) BTW, why shouldn’t they pay their fair share? Most of us never use a private jet or need a rural airport.

There are big differences between the Rs and the Ds, but both have sold out to the corporations and big money interests. One of the biggest issues for those who do not have jobs in this economy, they have been voting against their own best interests for a long time. One prime example is the Tea Party folks. They seem to have gotten a bit of a shake up when they figured out their SS checks would be stopped in August ;-))

1989, Regan went to Japan to speak for 30 minutes and got a cool million for a fee. I wondered what he did to sell us (U.S.) down the tube to warrant that kind of a fee? He was the first to put the White House up for sale and everyone who has occupied it since has been out for himself, to hell with the country. I am beginning to have hopes for Obama being for the working class’ recovery.

I will leave with the words of Kruschev, the Russian leader of the 1950-60 era. He said the US would never be defeated by an external enemy, but would collapse from within. Not sue if he had been reading the works of the Founding Fathers or not. They pretty well predict where human nature will take us. You are living through the suicide of an empire fueled by petty pissants that can’t stand the thought of someone might be getting a pittance for nothing and greedy sociopaths who cannot stand not having everything for themselves. The US and Germany both recovered from the Great Depression; we got Roosevelt resulting in a vibrant middle class while Germany is still paying the price of Hitler’s misdeeds. Wonder how this coming Great Depression II will turn out? Do you think the result of the Oligarchy’s greed will result in socialism or even communism in the US?

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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BobTheFish

361 posts in 1275 days


#47 posted 07-29-2011 03:58 AM

When 47% of the nation is too poor to afford housing and food, then you have to ask yourself if it’s true, of course, but also why that is.

Another thing to consider. When the US was in the midst of its great depression, the common consensus seemed to be that of “helping your neighbor out” and in return, they helped you. There was a sense of community, and a sense of being in this together. Regardless of what you think of our government then or now, there simply isn’t that desire to help out our fellow man anymore. It’s very cut-throat, and with every individual for himself. Hence the attitude of considering everyone on welfare as being a lazy bastard milking the system, or the idea of not being “my brother’s keeper”. The idea of every dollar I make being hard earned, but everyone else’s dollar comes from an easy ride.

But on the flip side, it’s also true that during the last depression, people had more “can do” spirit, and actually went out and MADE work for themselves, be it polishing shoes, doing odds and ends, or taking the most miserable jobs just to make it through the next day. You don’t see many people selling or making their own wares much these days (and I know, it’s LJ.. we all do it here, but honestly, how many people out there have hobbies like this, or can seem to get interested in starting such a thing). They, instead, are still seeking quick fixes and easy money with little effort.

It’s no wonder, governing practices aside, that we aren’t doing that much better than a few years ago, nor are we anywhere near pulling ourselves out of this mess. The attitude is just so very wrong.

And that’s my point. we SHOULD be trying to do things the right way, not the easy way, and, not to sound wishy washy, we should be doing in a community minded way.

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pierce85

508 posts in 1285 days


#48 posted 07-29-2011 04:02 AM

Go Topa!!!

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TopamaxSurvivor

15024 posts in 2399 days


#49 posted 07-29-2011 04:09 AM

During Regan’s recession to bust the trade unions in the 80s, I hired a guy that turned out to not be much of an electrician. I only needed help for a few days, his unemployment had run out. He asked if I could pay him at teh end of the first day so he could take the bus home and back to work the next morning? I did and I kept him until I had what I needed help with was done. I even found I had to redo some of his work after he was gone. I still do not regret not sending him packing the first day. None of these corpo pigs that take millions in bonuses for send jobs overseas or raiding companies of their assets like Mitt Romney could even understand such an act.

I have a lot of people calling looking for work every week. I don’t even keep myself busy, but fortunately, I don’t really need to work every day.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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CampD

1210 posts in 2209 days


#50 posted 07-29-2011 04:13 AM

As jtash states, the problem is baseline budgeting and a projected increase to the budget of 10% every year. Any cuts they “say” their going to make comes out of this “projected budget” increase, which in turn they call a “savings” but in reality its still increasing. You can not project an increase when less are paying in (unemployment rate is closer to 20% than 10).This scare tactic of saying we wont be able to pay SS is bull, the choice of which bills to pay is solely on the President alone.

-- Doug...

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