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View Chris's profile

What in your mind constitutes custom woodworking?

by Chris
posted 1167 days ago


24 replies so far

View jusfine's profile

jusfine

2280 posts in 1562 days


#1 posted 1167 days ago

Chris, there are a number of descriptions regarding “custom” that I can think of, here is my example.

When I did cabinets for clients, every one was a custom piece, not because they were all distinctly different, but because I do not build modular cabinets and fit “fillers” in where my standard sizes don’t fit.

We “custom fit” each cabinet/vanity/bookcase to the space designated by the customer, and no two were the same.

Don’t know if that really answers what you are asking, does it?

-- Randy "You are judged as much by the questions you ask as the answers you give..."

View Lee Barker's profile

Lee Barker

2163 posts in 1486 days


#2 posted 1167 days ago

I’m hearing Chris’s question, but I’m starting from Randy’s camp: Custom, to me, is something that cannot be purchased, premade, elsewhere.

If there is a chair in the store, and you want one just exactly like it, I can build a replica. Nothing custom about it—copycat stuff, although it may very well require a high level of skill.

But if along with that chair you want a refrigerated footstool with stereo speakers in it, it would be a custom piece.

In that case I am building precisely to the specifications you, the imagined client here, provide. It’s custom because you can’t get one off the shelf, and for sure there will be challenges and I may solve them on my own or we may work collaboratively. Either case, it’s custom.

If you want a footstool that keeps your lemonade cool and helps you hear your Beethoven better, and you ask me to design it and build it, there will be lots more of my soul in it, yet, in my mind, it still lands squarely in the custom camp along with the case above.

If, on my own, I imagined a footstool that accomplished these two other tasks, I might design it and build it and…it’s custom until I start making 35 units a week…

Now let’s go back and look at Chris’s #1 scenario. A perfect example would be a Sam Maloof rocker. This gets interesting. Sam created that design, (and was as generous as a human being could be with it) and yet when I make one it is not a custom piece. It is inspired by Sam’s design (I wrote this on the bottom of the seat of the rocker I made) and I have no desire to insinuate in any way that I have a better idea. Am I just a craftsman at that point?

Well, to take Randy’s point, no, because I am making the seat lower for your comfort. You wanted no light color strips in the rocker glueup. So perhaps it is custom!

Anxious to hear other inputs,

I remain,

Y’r Hmbl srv’t,

Lee

-- "...in his brain, which is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage, he hath strange places cramm'd with observation, the which he vents in mangled forms." --Shakespeare, "As You Like It"

View David Grimes's profile

David Grimes

2072 posts in 1276 days


#3 posted 1167 days ago

Good question, Chris. I agree totally with all above answers.

I have a real life fresh (today) example of what I consider a custom project: A customer’s very small bathroom currently has a small hanging mirror and wall mount light over the 24” vanity cabinet. She needs more storage.

We began making her a 54” wide (wall to wall over both the existing vanity and toilet) by 36” high by 7” overall depth cabinet that will have two pairs of mirrored (inset within the raised outer panels) doors and the top 6” x 54” of the face is free to install her light onto the cabinet (because if left on the wall the light would shine down on top of the cabinet). It will be painted semi-gloss alkyd trim white with hidden cup hinges.

Fancy ? Not really, but it will look nice. Custom because it is made exactly FOR the customer’s application, it would likely not work anywhere else, and it will be one we will probably never exactly do again.

I may post it as a project and I would certainly use the term custom in its description.

Regards.

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

View Chris's profile

Chris

188 posts in 2722 days


#4 posted 1167 days ago

Great stuff guys, keep it coming. I have thoroughly enjoyed the perspectives.

So i guess, oft times our pieces are “originals” then if we create them out of our own personalities and style and “custom” when the client’s specific needs are addressed and met in the creation.

As Sam has so eloquently put it “there will be lots more of my soul in it”

-- Chris Harrell - custom callmaker "Quacky Calls" Eastern NC. http://www.quackycalls.com

View devann's profile

devann

1735 posts in 1328 days


#5 posted 1167 days ago

Chris I have another fresh example of today’s work also. Like Lee said, if somebody is making a batch of something I wouldn’t consider it custom, I agree. Today I had a customer bring me a shelf that somebody made and it was a unique design but I’m sure that theirs wasn’t the only one the woodworker made. The customer wanted me to modify the shelf for their specific application. And like David mentioned because there are probably not any more made this way and as you stated it was a customers input to fulfill their individual desire I would consider that to be a custom job.

Another twist would be a hexagon shaped table I concocted where I use 32 pieces the shape of 1/2 of a hexagon to make the hexagon shape table top. While I’ve never seen anyone else make one I’m sure that somebody has at some point in time. I cut out five of these table tops before building any. I’ve only built three to date. But none of the three are exactly the same, each one a little different depending on the customers wishes. Because each is made for a specific customer and no two are the same I would consider that to be a custom table.

-- Darrell, making more sawdust than I know what to do with

View DogwoodTales's profile

DogwoodTales

28 posts in 1171 days


#6 posted 1167 days ago

My first inclination is to say that if the customer requests a blank, unfinished piece of wood cut to 5”x11” – that’s custom woodworking in it’s most elementary form. So I guess my first inclination is to go with Chris’s #2 scenario.

To me Chris’s #1 scenario expresses more of an artistic expression than a custom built object.
However, to some people it’s a custom built piece due to the fact that it is made individually and not as a factory run piece.

“Custom” can also mean simply that something is not factory built with every part exactly the same. But even we woodworkers may do multiples of something that may be a copy of our own original design. So are they “custom” pieces or is the project as a whole a “custom project”?

If I go back in time and have an encounter with some woodworker discussing the concept of “custom” will the price of eggs in Russia be effected in 2012?

My business card does say “Custom Woodworking by…” because I believe that communicates to the reader something about quality and originality made specificly to his/her needs.
When it all boils down, “custom” is in the eye of the paying customer.

-- Ray, www.dogwoodtales.com, Cincinnati, OH

View RogerBean's profile

RogerBean

1129 posts in 1589 days


#7 posted 1166 days ago

The word custom has been used (and misused) by so many people to mean so many different things, that I suspect that it now means nearly nothing to anyone. ...except perhaps “caveat emptor”. If I were looking for a word to describe something specific about my product or my business, I would look to be more precise. Just my opinion.
Roger

-- "Everybody makes mistakes. A craftsman always fixes them." (Monty Kennedy, "The Checkering and Carving of Gunstocks", 1952)

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

14909 posts in 1204 days


#8 posted 1166 days ago

its built to specifications one at a time. If I had to build 10 pieces exactly the same, I’d call the first one custom, after that it becomes production. If I had to build only 2 of them, the second is in a grey area.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

4942 posts in 1434 days


#9 posted 1166 days ago

In the world of boat building it’s pretty black and white. If it’s one off it’s generally called custom built. If it comes off a production line, it’s not.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View Lee Barker's profile

Lee Barker

2163 posts in 1486 days


#10 posted 1166 days ago

To Roger’s point: I remember feeling disappointed when Ford in the ‘50’s came out with a model called the “custom.” They hijacked the term, I thought, but it did survive.

Darrell introduced an interesting scenario with his octagon tables with stashed parts. I would agree and call each one custom, but I could also understand someone saying if there’s any suggestion of multiples, it’s not. That would be a really literal interpretation which includes the craftsman hand fitting each part, one at a grim, glacial time.

Paul’s perspective is valuable as well. If I buy a plan for a Nutshell Pram and build it exactly per the pictures and paint it to match the client’s big boat, is it custom? I’m askin’....

I can be critical of nit picking historians and I hear myself becoming a nit picking linguist. Augh.

Still, a fascinating exploration. Thank you Chris.

Kindly,

Lee

-- "...in his brain, which is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage, he hath strange places cramm'd with observation, the which he vents in mangled forms." --Shakespeare, "As You Like It"

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

4942 posts in 1434 days


#11 posted 1166 days ago

Lee, In my world, even if you followed the plans to the tiniest detail (and it is a giant if, boatbuilders always change something) It would be a custom built Nutshell Pram if you made one and one only.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View drewnahant's profile

drewnahant

218 posts in 1725 days


#12 posted 1166 days ago

I look at it in a literal sense, that it is custom to the customer, built to their needs. Even if you are copying a table design, but making it 6” longer to fit their roo, that is custom. If you build something as a stock piece, even if it is one of a kind, but isnt designed to meet the needs of a specific customer, it is not custom. It is an original piece, an artisan piece, a one-off, but not custom.

Also, a piece does not need to be unique to be custom. If a customer sees something you have built before and wants you to build another, it is custom, because it is built for that specific customer, and no two pieces are identical anyway.

I tend to be a bit picky about the exact meaning of words. Customers often are not, calling pieces by the wrong style, wrong wood species, or calling a unique piece custom, understandable since they are not dealing within their field of expertise, so in that forum, I dont think it needs to be so strict, but within the community of woodworkers, such as here on LJ’s I think “custom” means that it is built to the needs of a specific customer. Even if you are your own customer.

Just my opinion, language is always open to interpretation. Just look at how a contract has to be written to avoid interpretation, it is a language by itself, clearly used because common language is so ambiguous.

View jonasramus's profile

jonasramus

24 posts in 1612 days


#13 posted 1166 days ago

A unique item, by itself, does not a custom piece make. To me the word “custom” implies a CUSTOMer has requested specific features to the piece. However, that does not prevent a person from making their own custom item so long as the piece being made is intended for use by the person making it. In that way they become their own customer.

An artist who makes a unique item for sale has not built a custom piece, but if he/she has done a self portrait (or for us woodworkers the frame for that portrait) then it IS custom as long as it is intended for their own use.

-- Jeff, Deltona Florida

View KayBee's profile

KayBee

1003 posts in 1882 days


#14 posted 1166 days ago

Made to order. Can be one or a set of twenty cabinets, chairs, widgets. No order, no custom. You can be your own customer and order your own ‘custom geegaw’ to sell on speculation.

-- Karen - a little bit of stupid goes a long way

View Chris's profile

Chris

188 posts in 2722 days


#15 posted 1165 days ago

wow, when i first posted this i was wondering where it would go and if anyone would even bother to reply. You guys have surely exceeded my “shallow” expectations and i have enjoyed reading through the different replies.

very interesting

-- Chris Harrell - custom callmaker "Quacky Calls" Eastern NC. http://www.quackycalls.com

View Gregn's profile

Gregn

1642 posts in 1619 days


#16 posted 1164 days ago

The word custom in today’s society has come to mean many things such as, tradition, practice, convention, norm, routine, habit, ritual, practice, routine, pattern, way, trade, business, patronage, clientele, market, or client base. While the opposite would be novelty, craft, or unusual. Then you have custom built meaning made to order. All designed to catch the eye and appeal to entice the customer. So in the commercial world its saying that your woodworking is a unique product that is hard to find elsewhere in commercial arena’s. For myself as a hobbyist I prefer to use the word crafted even if the piece should happen to be a commissioned piece.

-- I don't make mistakes, I have great learning lessons, Greg

View BentheViking's profile

BentheViking

1752 posts in 1200 days


#17 posted 1163 days ago

So in thinking about this I came up with no real definition. At first I thought it had to be something you or someone else designed so nothing that was produced from a set of plans. But then I thought what if you customize someone elses plans. So then I got to thinking well as long as you build it yourself (ie no CNC machines…i almost cried the first time I went into a big “custom” millshop and almost every function being done was on on programmed machines which to me doesn’t make it much of a craft). But then I though if the CNC does the cutting and you do the building is it custom built? So I guess the best definition I have so far is like what other said about it not being mass produced.

-- It's made of wood. Real sturdy.--Chubbs Peterson

View spunwood's profile

spunwood

1194 posts in 1472 days


#18 posted 1163 days ago

I have really enjoyed reading through.

When I put ‘custom’ on my frames and furniture business card, it was as much a gimic as it was honest, I am chagrined to say.

But having been at it, and only for a little while, I can see that custom is precisly what I do, even though I would not call myself a craftsman, having been at woodworking for just over a year.

My work is custom because:

It is not an assembly line (though some of my work sometimes is)

It is made to fit for each customer (except for things I make in quantity)

I have designs which are all my own

I spend a lot of time going back and forth with customers, so that I can meet there needs (and this is quite enjoyable)....though it usely starts with them saying something general and me pitching ideas and than claryfiying back and forth and then using price and desire to shape things.

Brandon

-- I came, I was conquered, I was born again. ἵνα ὦσιν ἓν

View Chris's profile

Chris

188 posts in 2722 days


#19 posted 1163 days ago

as mentioned earlier, i am intrigued guys! I am intrigued! at the overwhelming responses and replies. I didn’t think i was going to create such a myriad of responses.

a pleasure to follow

Chris

-- Chris Harrell - custom callmaker "Quacky Calls" Eastern NC. http://www.quackycalls.com

View BobTheFish's profile

BobTheFish

361 posts in 1188 days


#20 posted 1163 days ago

I think that “custom” just like “handmade” is a term that doesn’t have meaning anymore.

At first it seems to mean “anything that isn’t mass produced as ‘one size fits all’” Something that has an element of personalization. But almost everything can be personalized these days,and with the computer aiding the end customer in many cases, the manufacturer doesn’t really ever even have to look at the customer’s design specs, just let the computer do the work. Think about internet sales. You can usually put your own artwork on it, you can customize the size, you can name your own color….

(and a quick note on “handmade” – things that are only assembled often get the “handmade” label. Then there’s the aforementioned CNC work. Is that really “handmade”? because to some it is, apparently. The word just doesn’t have much meaning).

I’d say that these days I take the more artistic approach, as mentioned above, and rather than create “handmade custom” pieces, I prefer to make things minimally by machine, and what I create is what I have to sell, and customization is never an option.

View bauerwood's profile

bauerwood

22 posts in 1644 days


#21 posted 1157 days ago

Great topic! In my opinion the word custom is/has going/gone the way of the “you’ve tried the rest now try the best” or “At Jim’s Custom Cabinets our customers are our most important asset!” My point being that the word has been thrown on to every crap cabinet shop’s sign and trucks that it has lost all meaning.

If you think about it only a portion of custom woodworkers can live up to the title. Let’s say you’re hired to build a “custom” wine rack, if you’re like me the first step is to get dimensions and hit the drawing board. Now here’s where the custom woodworkers really shine, if you draw from only your mind and create a product without doing a google image search for “custom wine racks” then I’d say you can sleep a bit better knowing you’re a real custom woodworker.

That being said there’s nothing wrong with taking ideas from other people, hell look at Normy, he’s made a damn career out of replicating others work.

What I have found works so much better than telling a potential client that you’re a custom woodworker is to tell them you are classically trained craftsman; now this only works if you have the skills to back it up, because if every hack started saying that and then threw together some plywood and poplar crap and rubbed some Home Depot Minwax on it classically trained craftsman will go the way of the “custom” woodworker.

So to summarize, let’s all just let the hacks have the word “custom” and all its tarnished glory. Soon enough it will be like a scarlet letter on their business cards.

View SCOTSMAN's profile

SCOTSMAN

5352 posts in 2221 days


#22 posted 1157 days ago

If your making a bespoke piece of furniture, simply put a piece that cannot be readily bought to fit and look like the furniture the customer wants.The idea may have been made a thousand times but if it has to be custom made for thet particular space /spot /place/room etc . Then it falls into your categoty imho Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

View CherieLee's profile

CherieLee

60 posts in 1154 days


#23 posted 1151 days ago

Wow,,,I had no idea there was so many variety of meanings for the word “custom”. To me it is a special order that wants something added. One example would be the Boy Scout order I had done for a troop in PA. Their pack leader wanted me to engrave the course number onto the bear paw piece. Another example would be in my line of woodworking, taking a photo and turning it into a piece that may be cut from wood portrait style.
Just my two cents. Hope this makes sense.

-- Cherie Lee

View cabmaker's profile (online now)

cabmaker

1311 posts in 1445 days


#24 posted 1151 days ago

Wow, Cherie lee, I had no idea either. It seems some may use custom to seemingly elevate them into some other dimension. Custom is simply a product made to an individuals specifications. Nothing more, nothing less.One of or multi. pcs has nothing to do with it. JB

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