All Replies on Handplanes of your dreams

If I win the lottery I will buy a Bridge City, it is so beautiful!
I just have to buy a cupon…

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

Mads, the tolerance and tech have squeezed the life out of the tool for me. I don’t doubt that it’s worth every penny of the price but for my money, Preston/clifton. If I win the lottery, I will buy you one. It would please me greatly to pop it in the mail to you:) Bridge City is so unique in that their active productions are collector’s items! I’d still rather have your kerfmaker:)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

Al we will make that agreement, I will do the same to you!
I have a Div, some wooden Skandinavian types, the micro Veritas and the record 311, so I think I’m covered for now…
Big smile.

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

I am really simple in what I want… I have a fairly decent setup of cheap planes. All Groz, and all tuned up right. That took quite a bit of work, but it was worth it… The blades leave a lot to be desired though. I would simply like to upgrade the blades / chipbreakers with the Veritas chipbreakers / blades from Lee Valley. They are stunningly affordable, and will likely end up in my planes soon…

-- Manufacturer of fine quality sawdust since 1984. Comments and advice on my shop welcome. Check it out at http://lumberjocks.com/dbhost/workshop. Gladly accepting shop build donations!

Any fully-functional handplane is one I dream of… LOL! At the moment I really want a Veritas low-angle jack plane w/ the available assortment of blades.

Mads, it’s a deal. You have a Div, which is more valuable than any Holtey, in my opinion. Millo, it’s hard for me to consider the Veritas jack with Mads’ 62 looming above:)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

-- Ike, Big Daddies Woodshop, http://www.icombadaniels@yahoo.com

Bertha look at these two plough and check out the prices and wuold you say that one exstra knop and
a few exstra cutters and some tools wuold make the first one worth the extra 85 £ than no.two plough :-)
isn´t it amzing how much prices can be different on basicly the same tool …. LOL

no.two and three witch is a record shoulder 042 is in the mail and you get one shot to gess where
the destination is …... LOL
http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/planes_scrapers/plough.planes/plough.planes.pl2283.php

http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/planes_scrapers/plough.planes/plough.planes.pl2282.php

http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/planes_scrapers/rebate.planes/rebate.plane.pl2291.php

oh and don´t say to anyone that a highheel stanley no 113 slipped into the packages as well …. LOL

take care
Dennis

seriously want one of these

-- Got Wood?

I love it Joe.

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

Looks very Buck Rogers…

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

Ha! The elusive Buck Rogers! Before we laugh too hard at the style of yesteryear, check out the frog on that bad boy! I like that thick toe for some reason, too. I want one badly before the Trekkies start collecting them:) .

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

Alright, check out a few pimps here- https://picasaweb.google.com/philipmarcou/StanleyTypeRefurbishedPlanes#.
Solely for the more broad minded enthusiast, you understand…..No brass and steel doves, unique adjustable mouths, exotic woods, jewelling, far out designs , extreme pleasure in use etc etc there as I am too self conscious to show any flash pictures right now….(;)(;)

I’ve never owned a hand plane, but can appreciate the workmanship and design that goes into them. I take it that for many of you it has become a possession obsession much like guitar collectors that can’t have too many. Some collectors can’t even play !

Please don’t flame, but may I ask what might one do with one of these that can’t be done better and/or faster with a power tool ?

What is a good first plane for initiation ?

I watch NCIS and see Jethro Gibbs scrubbing on his boat hull as his “therapy”. Is that it? Do hand planes produce endorphins ?

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

Philip – Holy knobs and totes batman! I like what you’ve done with those babies.

David, David, David – What a can of worms you’ve opened :-) This thread is sure to run and run now. Personally, if you were only ever going to own one plane, then I would say you should buy a bevel up, low angle Jack either from Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen. Purely because they are so versatile. You can remove a lot of material quickly by fitting the toothed blade and opening the mouth to take a heavier cut, then in the space of a few seconds, you can switch to an ordinary blade with a slight camber to it, reduce the mouth opening to take a finer cut and do a reasonable job of flattening a board, then reduce the mouth opening even more and set it for very fine cut to smooth the surface. If you buy a number of blades, you can grind the bevels at different angles to enable you to work with different species of wood. So if you wanted to get a good surface on a highly figured exotic wood, you switch to a high angled blade. You can even have a blade that can be used solely for scraping the surface and use it as a scraping plane.

True, a low angled Jack won’t smooth as well as a dedicated smoother such as a No.3 or No.4 and it won’t flatten a board as well as a No.7 or No.8 Jointer, but if you were only going to own one plane, it should be one of these in my opinion. Anyhow, by the time you’ve learnt to sharpen and have experimented with different blade angles, you’ll be hooked and will want to own more planes. Then you’ll be drooling over the infills above and bidding against me on eBay. Oh wait! Me and my big mouth. Stick to power tools. Power tools are great. Planes are so last year! LOL.

With Power Tools you have to deal with DUST, DANGER and NOISE – yuk! I like my neighbours, but they wouldn’t like me if I used screaming power tools. Also, my workshop (9ft x 9ft) isn’t big enough for a lot of power tools/machines. I love the way hand tools connect you with the wood, you can feel what’s happeing as you saw, plane, shave and scrape. Hand tools require skill. You have to learn technique and develop a feel for each tool to get the best out of it. They are a challenge which I enjoy. You also save money because you don’t need membership at a gym.

Don’t get me wrong, machines have their place and if I had the space, I’d buy and use them. In a professional shop they are essential to make any money. But for me as a hobbyist, I don’t care how long it takes to build something. For me, the enjoyment comes from the journey, right through from design to applying the finish. Just my opinion. You might have another.

P.S. I love NCIS, but have you noticed that whenever Jethro is in his basement working on his boat, you never see any shavings coming from the tools. Now a true woodworker and plane lover, would have to ad lib a bit, pull out a 001” shaving and hold it up to the camera. Then he’d invite everyone to stop by and feel the surface left by the plane.

-- Andy -- Old Chinese proverb say: If you think something can't be done, don't interrupt man who is doing it.

David :
unless you have more than two- three yards to make , except when it comes to
just flatten a board it is most of the time faster and with better result to use
a handtool all the time you use to make a jiig and set up the electronkillerdevice
and making test cuts you can finish the work with handtool
and when it comes to smothness on a board nothing can beat a plane , with a propper set
plane and other handtools you nearly can avoid the dust sandpaperwork and the last
little bit you wanted to sand can be taken care of by a handscraper

the difference when you look at a board planed with a smother and one you have done by maschine
is that the one flatten on the maschine has some small waves made by the cutter and is dead without life
when tuched with the sandpaper
but the smotherplanned board play´s in the light
try to make a test one day and you will discover the difference :-)

one more thing using handtools lets you work like a gentleman …..... in silence.. :-)

take care
Dennis

David asked : “Please don’t flame, but may I ask what might one do with one of these that can’t be done better and/or faster with a power tool ?”

A properly set up and sharpened hand plane will leave a surface beautifully flat and smooth. No machine plane using rotating blades can match this -other than a machine using a knife in a peeling fashion (Just like a hand plane) , and this type of machine is not within the reach of the vast majority of woodworms.
If you are thinking of machines using abrasives that is a different ball game and the typical wide belt sander as used in factories still leaves a sanded finish which doesn’t satisfy the purists-and the average basement shop cannot accommodate one.
Furthermore, collecting good tools is part of the hobby and it is fun: you don’t have to fly the plane you own (some guys are too old to have a license anyway ). Come to think of it: I have seen basements in the US of A so packed with tools and machines that there is literally no space in which place a single shaving let alone make a piece of furniture.

I’m in pretty good shape on hand planes except that I would like to have an older stanley #8, a stanley bench rabbet, and a good multiplane. Actually I’m in pretty good shape if I never got another tool. I’ll be sending rivergirl some of my tools with her tool chest. :) However, even after that I will be in pretty good shape. Well, that’s not entirely so – I add to my collection of woodcarving tools every so often. After I get 10 or twelve more gouges I’ll really be in pretty good shape there as well. Of course I’ll never stop buying tools. Actually I probably do need a few more clamps.

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

Phillip says it best and trust me, he knows what he’s talking about. The finish is only the start for me. The tactile sensation of working a plane is very unique. The resposiveness is instantaneous and I feel connected to ancient craftsmen when I pick one up. I’ve got a 20” bandsaw, so I have no fear of Dennis’ electron killers but there’s nothing like a sharp plane in your hands. Nothing better either.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

Just as an aside, David: imagine that you have made a frame and panel door, you have it all glued up and just need to “finish” it before polishing. How are you going to make the intersections of rail and style and muntin absolutely smooth and level to the touch? You can use a scraper or a plane-both are superior to whatever machine tool one can come up with- all I can think of right now is a belt sander which would leave scratches and risk damage to the moulded panel, or some sort of orbital sander which would again leave scratches…...
You can’t get away from it: ya gotta have some sort of hand plane or six lurking around if you do fine woodworking (;)

You can get by with only six? : ^ ).

Handplanes are like potato chips. You cannot stop at one.

I need to start playing the California Lottery. I need a complete set of Marcou planes.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

I’ll throw in my two cents in response to David.

Power tools are fast and convenient but often don’t have the ability to deviate from the norm. a table saw cuts straight lines with accuracy and speed, a thickness planer can make boards flat in a hurry, and and orbital sander can make any wood smooth. But what if I want curves? what if I want texture in the workpeice instead of glass smooth? Power tools can take the drudgery out of some tasks, that’s for sure. But hand tools give the freedom to move outside the confines of the square box.

Beyond that, sometimes grabbing a hand tool is just plain faster. When it comes right down to it it’s unwise to shun one method or another (although as a disclaimer I enjoy handwork much more).

Today in my shop I had few good examples. I am making a saw bench from hell, the legs are made from a lamination of 3 pieces of walnut, 2 legs are done, and now I had 2 more to go. These are rough pieces to start with, and I can get a face flat, and a side jointed on all 6 workpieces in about 40-50 minutes. Then I went into power mode for the cutting to width and thickness. I set up dust collection proper out feed, and all safety gear for the remaining edges and faces. Between the set up time and actually doing the work it took me about an hour and 15 for the remaining faces, (keep in mind the when truing stock by hand it takes longer to do the second edge and second face because you are trying to maintain parallel as well as square) I saved myself some time, but not a lot. This could be avoided by having my saw set up all the time, but I don’t enjoy working that way, the dust and danger is always on my mind. But the power method did save me some time.

An instance of the reverse is today when I was working on the blade from my scraper shave, I needed a holder to use while I was grinding the face flat on sandpaper and glass.

The recess for the blade is a little shy of 1/64th of an inch and fits the blade perfectly. I did this in under two minutes with a knife, an engineers square and a router plane. The results where great and I cannot think of a faster way to get this jig made.

The moral of the story, pick the right tool for the job, whether is slays electrons or not. And of course, work the way you will enjoy, you’ll do better work.

To answer your other question, WoodRiver is a good starter plane. They are cheap enough to try out, but well enough machined that you won’t have to become an expert on repair before using one successfully. Grab a no 4 smoother and use it on your next project for the finishing stage, you’ll be impressed how much faster it goes (not to mention the results are often better). But should you decide you could go even simpler than that, buy a block plane and learn how to sharpen it (when you can get shavings in endgrain you are doing good) you will find a million uses for it (breaking edges, tuning fit, cleaning up joints, squaring end grain, removing saw-marks…)

Above all, enjoy the process.

-- Make furniture that lasts as long as the tree - Ryan

RG, thank you for these comments. They really struck home with me.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

RG – ;-)

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

I was never really interested in hand planes, until recently. I had the fortune of spending some time with a friend trying out his Lie Nielsen Bevel up plane. He showed me the proper techniques for using hand planes, as I had very limited experience with the couple I currently had. I used it for a few days, and immediately became a huge fan. Shortly after returning home, I bought the Lie Nielson bevel up Smoother Plane. What a beautiful piece it is. I am hooked on Lie Nielsen planes, and have already selected two more in my Lee Valley “wish list” so when a little extra cash accumulates, I can bring them home as well.

Gator

-- Master designer of precision sawdust and one of a kind slivers.

Hand planes have never ceased to amaze me. I never appreciated antique furniture until I learned how to use a hand plane. Now I know what I’m looking at better, and am sometimes equally impressed and confused – find a nice example of fine furniture from the 17th century and try to reverse it in your mind without using power tools. How did those crowns get cut? That ogee is way too consistent, but it’s perfect on this piece for 10meters… That’s a humbling moment when you think about a craftsman who did that kind of work – by hand. That’s something that inspires me to challenge myself and do better. 200 years ago, without power tools, someone made a quality piece that has survived with proper care. That’s impressive and what I want for my work.

I read somewhere that there are aspects of hand planes and their uses that have become lost arts. I think that’s a shame for such a versatile tool. I agree with the camp that says ‘the right tool for the job’, but I’ll caveat that with this – just about everything I make gets touched by at least one of my planes at least once. I try to use them whenever I can. I like the quiet and dust free workspace it leaves.

Now all that aside, stanleys are nice, and I can’t afford half of those gucci planes you guys have brought up, but I will swear by my Records, especially my 4 and my 5 1/2. And the 4 came to me as a an eBay find, $25. Good planes don’t have to be expensive planes. I also recommend Garrett Hack’s text on planes – the history is nice, but his section on theory, TUNING, and maintenance of a plane is a must if you’re just learning how. A plane can be super frustrating when you’re teaching yourself how – but Hack will keep you on course.

Too much of my two cents.
- Abe

-- - Abe

Thank you for these nice comments. I couldn’t agree more. Luckily, there are still people like P. Marcou above who haven’t abadoned the art. I’m a Stanley guy but I’m certainly a fan of the Records. I think LN has provided a valuable option for someone who wants to get into planes. They’re like an old bedrock that’s almost ready to go out of the box. Try to find a Stanley 62 on Ebay and the price of the LN bevel-up doesn’t look that bad. You’ll have to come out of pocket for Marcou’s planes but an heirloom never came cheap.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

My dream would be a bronze body 5 1/2 lie nielsen with a high angle frog.

I know they don’t make a bronze body 5 1/2 but I am dreaming. That would be an awesome plane

I really wish David would pipe in again so we could find out if we have converted him to the Dark Side or not.

-- Make furniture that lasts as long as the tree - Ryan

That’s what makes LN so attractive to me, the bronze. That was brilliant. I’d love to have about 10 of those planes in all bronze.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

This is quite amazing also!
http://heinztools.com/

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

Doesn’t get any cooler than that, Mads. I could gaze at it for hours.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

naaaa it must be for sugar at the coffee table or something like that…. :-)

Dennis

Look at the site Dennis,

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

Wow!

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

Yes that site is amazing!

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

It also has tons of historical information on chisel makers. The hammers might be my favorite.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

okay you two , I´ll better do it before you kill me and my keyboards
I need a tovel or four now

Most any plane that I would dream about would either be one of the home made infills like has already been mentioned or would be something old. I love the Millers Falls (have many) and I love the old Bed Rocks (had a few). Still my dream would be to have an old Mathiesen or similar infill smoother. I don’t think that there is a more elegant looking tool made today or ever. If we want to open it up to hand tools in general, I would really like to come across a set of Swann Socket chisels. However, if I did have some of these tools, I might be to intimidated to actually use them. My favorite tools are the ones that I have purchased and then restored/repaired so that they can be useful again.

Doc

-- Hey, woodworking ain't brain surgery. Just do something and keep trying till you get it. Doc

Doc this we share, my favorite tools are also the once I make or restore. No new tools can bring me that pleasure, it’s funny that it seems like there are three types of woodworkers:

1. Lover of old, the more used the better if the quality are wonderful and the use been done with love.
2. New, expensive and shiny or hightech quality.
3. Don’t give a shit as long as it do the job.

Sometimes I wish to be a 3 but I have learned since childhood to care for and love my tools, so it will never happen, and yes I do love good tools.
Or a no 2 but this would just be to wait for more money to buy more tools, and if I had the big box I would fast get borred also when they were all bought (it’s just to press buy).
As a no three I enjoy that I can always find things that are of exelent quality, and if I should get the big bag of money, I can allways go more and more vintage, and collectors.

Best thoughts,
Mads

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

I’m a one all the way and it’s getting worse, not better. I like that you ordered them that way so that we can claim to be number one! :)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

The truth is I think not there are a right or wrong here, or more exactly the right thing is what makes us happy.
Some make a wooden handplane out of a old piece of trash wood and harden a old piece of steel and are able to make a handplane we can only dream of.
Some buy a old Stanley and tune it up so it match any new plane on the marked.
Some use a handplane we would concider trash and make the most beautiful things.
Some sit down and order all that sparkels and are most of all ignored that you cant buy handplanes with diamonds, just so you can bling.
So what is it?
Work tools, hobby tools or just personal pleasure, at the end we can do all we want with three planes well setup.
Best thoughts,
Mads

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

I couldn’t agree more. The old ones speak to me, the handmade ones sing to me, I stare at a Marcou in disbelief, and I even own large powertools for when it feels right. There’s only a right way to love tools.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

Very true Bertha. And Very true Mafe. I fall in the most capricious of the three areas, I love the tools I make like my smoother, my winding sticks, and my bench, they fit me and my work and there is no other manufacturer out there that can do that. I love taking a tool that is generations old and making it sing the same song that craftsmen before me have heard. I love unwrapping a new tool that’s made in a way that gives me hope, “some people still care” I think. Then sometimes I just have work to do and I’ll reach for anything that get’s the job done.

-- Make furniture that lasts as long as the tree - Ryan

“Work tools, hobby tools or just personal pleasure, at the end we can do all we want with three planes well setup.”
Mafe, which three planes are these?

I assumed jointer, jack, and smoother. I use a jointer as a jack, and I like scrapers, so I might need just one:)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

Hi Phillip,
That was a good question, a really good one. (There has been many talks on this subject).
I will say with a no 5 (no 4 if you buy your lumber straight), a low angel block plane and a good shounderplane you should be able to build most projects you will ever need.
I personally have app eighty planes so I do not go in the minimalist group… But I can promise you that the planes that never rest is the No. 4, the Record 311 shoulderplane and my low angel blockplane from Veritas.
But all is relative, and depending on the job ofcourse.
Best thoughts,
Mads

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

This is truly a great discussion. I mentioned in another thread that my most used planes (in order) are 1) No. 7 jointer, 2) #4 smoother, 3) 65 1/2 lowangle block, 4) Clifton shoulder, 5) #45 just because I like using it. I also use a #78 and #81 pretty often. Many people seem to consider a shoulder a luxury, but I’m not sure how people get along without one. I’ll use a little bullnose on occassion but it’s no replacement for a BIG shoulder.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

I have to raise it to four

A block, a plow, a smoother and a jointer. That should get things going.

-- Make furniture that lasts as long as the tree - Ryan

Hi again Phillip,
I just saw your site, you make some exelent craftmanship there! Guys check his site.
http://www.marcouplanes.co.nz/
So in a minimalistic world I would bring only three hand planes!
When I see your planes it makes perfectly sence what I said, that we can allways wish for more and better, that even if I had every LN plane ever made I would still feel small and worthless when I looked at them and compared to yours. The blig would be gone.
Best thoughts,
Mads

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.