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All Replies on Power Tool voltage\amp question (Bandsaw)

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View Zuki's profile

Power Tool voltage\amp question (Bandsaw)

by Zuki
posted 12-29-2007 07:10 PM


16 replies so far

View CaptnA's profile

CaptnA

116 posts in 2479 days


#1 posted 12-29-2007 07:53 PM

I’d check with an electrician on this one. From what I understand – and someone correct me if I’m wrong;
by running on 220 you will save money, improve power, and extend the life of the tool. At least that’s what I’ve heard from looking into my next lathe – guess it’d be the same for the bandsaw
Wish I’d looked into ball bearing guides beofe I replaced my old saw.

-- CaptnA - "When someone hurts you, write it in the sand so the winds of forgiveness will scatter the memory... "

View GaryK's profile

GaryK

10262 posts in 2654 days


#2 posted 12-30-2007 12:26 AM

CaptnA is basically correct. It will also get up to speed faster.

Does you garage have a breaker box/service panel in it already? If so you already have 220 there.

If not you can have it run into there. You just need to hire an electrican to do it, since it sounds
like you are not too familiar with the subject.

Gary

-- Gary - Never pass up the opportunity to make a mistake look like you planned it that way - Tyler, TX

View Karson's profile

Karson

34878 posts in 3067 days


#3 posted 12-30-2007 12:29 AM

The 220 is a more efficient motor. If you have the choice always use 220. It will have more power to go through Resawing. The 120 saw could be very slow.

You get two power cycles in the same 60 cycles power. basicly 120 cycles. 60 on each line. Where as the 120 has just 60 cycles.

-- I've been blessed with a father who liked to tinker in wood, and a wife who lets me tinker in wood. Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

View Todd A. Clippinger's profile

Todd A. Clippinger

8790 posts in 2766 days


#4 posted 12-30-2007 12:38 AM

On 220 you allow the motor to draw its’ power through 2 lines and 2 breakers. That allows for a cooler running motor which improves its’ life and the breakers run cooler. It still uses the same amount of power but it can draw it through 2 lines which allows for a more efficient running motor. This comes into play upon startup and under a heavy load.

Some of my tools that came with a 110/220 option were run on 110 until I dropped a new line in for them. They would take longer on startup, which is hard on the motor, and they would dim all the lights in the shop. Everything is running good on 220 though.

Buying the bigger motor is a better way to go for sure.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://americancraftsmanworkshop.com

View Zuki's profile

Zuki

1404 posts in 2743 days


#5 posted 12-30-2007 01:29 AM

Tks guys. I guess that is why the 220v is 5 amps and the 110v is 10 amps . . . there are 2 lines to draw the power.

When I wired the garage I installed a large enough panel so that I would have a few spares. I guess I will go with the larger one, purchace the 2 pole breaker and one of those “funny outlets” (to install a dedicated plug ) so that I will not be able to plug my 110 stuff in there.

-- BLOG - http://www.colorfulcanary.com/search/label/Zuki

View Sawdust2's profile

Sawdust2

1467 posts in 2754 days


#6 posted 12-30-2007 03:11 AM

When I moved and planned my shop I converted every tool that I could to 220 and installed a dedicated line for each (only 3) of the tools.
Table saw, bandsaw, compressor. I may convert my duct collector to 220 but I currently (no pun intended) have a 110 remote on it.

-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

View Todd A. Clippinger's profile

Todd A. Clippinger

8790 posts in 2766 days


#7 posted 12-30-2007 05:07 AM

If you start running out of space in the breaker box, you can squeeze in a few more 110 circuits with the slimline breakers. They are half the size and you can get two in the space of one.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://americancraftsmanworkshop.com

View Bill Davis's profile

Bill Davis

226 posts in 2590 days


#8 posted 12-30-2007 04:40 PM

I take technical issue on a couple of replies – sorry guys.

1. “2 lines to draw power” – that is no advantage nor is it unique to 220 circuits. Just try hooking up a 120 volt motor with one wire and see how it works. Every circuit has two wires to carry the power. One carrying electrons to and the other carrying electrons away. It doesn’t make even one bit of sense.

2. “You get two power cycles in the same 60 cycles power. basicly 120 cycles. 60 on each line. Where as the 120 has just 60 cycles.” Balderdash! They are 60 cycles of power each second and both halves of each cycle produce power whether its 120 or 240 volts.

And I doubt (but dont know for sure) that a given motor that can be wired for either 120 or 240 would run at a different efficiency when wired for one voltage or the other if supplied with the same amount of electrical power.

The main advantage of 240 as opposed to 120 is that at twice the voltage the current in the circuit is half that if run at 120 volts. That would result in less voltage drop in the wires supplying current to the motor. That could mean a bit more power actually supplied to the motor due to less voltage loss if all other factors are equal. That same result could be achieved by using correspondingly larger or shorter wire to the motor when run at 120 volts. And running on 240 might be more expensive if you have to pay an electrician to run the 240 volt circuit you don’t have. It would take a lot of motor running time at 240 to pay that bill. False ecomomy.

View Dadoo's profile

Dadoo

1767 posts in 2656 days


#9 posted 12-30-2007 05:38 PM

OK, in my opinion, the 1433 is basically non-portable and 220 is better. 220 is using both “legs” of the power supply, each carrying 110VAC but “swinging” opposite each other on the sine-wave. So effectively, you’re using only half the current to start and run your motor, and you have more current available when “loading” the machine. I think you get the drift.

Oh, standard house voltages here in the USA typically run at 117VAC, so technically it’s 234VAC available at the main. If you have a meter you can measure this yourself. If you don’t have any idea, then please consult an electrician. 220VAC will “nail” you to the wall. Oh, one other thing…My wife’s vacuum runs at 12 amps…these saws draw 7.5 and 10 amps…that’s pretty efficient.

-- Bob Vila would be so proud of you!

View Dadoo's profile

Dadoo

1767 posts in 2656 days


#10 posted 12-30-2007 06:01 PM

Oh one more tidbit. If I had machines that ran on 220VAC I would definately wire them that way.

And hey! How about them Patriots! 16/0!

-- Bob Vila would be so proud of you!

View BroDave's profile

BroDave

107 posts in 2480 days


#11 posted 12-30-2007 06:38 PM

OK, here is the difference between 120 and 240 volts.

A cycle, displayed as “Hertz” on the motor name plate, is nothing more than frequency, as in how many times something occurs. In this case it is how many times the electrons flow from point A and return to point A.

Think of it like this;

The cycle we normally would think of as circular should be thought of as peaks and valleys.

On a single phase motor, 120 volts, the voltage starts in the valley, bottom, and climbs to the Peak, the top, then falls back down. What happens is that the motor must work harder to maintain the rated HP or work load at every step in the cycle except at the very top.

Now 240 volt motors are powered by two wires of 120 volts each, when checked to ground.
So what we have is two separate cycles or sets of peaks and valleys.
The result is that while one cycle is at the peak the other is in the valley. as the cycle continues they change places. This means that a 220 volt motor has to work half as hard as a 120 volt motor to do the same amount of work. In other words it is more efficient consumption wise and uses smaller wire and breaker size.
The cost of addition wire and breaker offset the power savings for a while but eventually you realize a savings.

I know that was a very simple but for those that don’t deal with this type of thing it should help.

For more details on the “peaks and valleys” you can check this.

You can also see more about motors here.

-- .

View mski's profile

mski

412 posts in 2646 days


#12 posted 12-30-2007 10:46 PM

220/110v motor usually start better on 220v, because most of them use the same start winding for 220v and 110v, so you get more starting torque on 220. Most motors die trying to start, so the 220v will probably live longer. The 220v motor will have less voltage drop starting and running heavily loaded and voltage drop kills motors too. Can’t go wrong on 220v. You can use lighter wire to wire it too. Otherwise, it will use the same amount of power(Ohm’s Law & V X Amps), either way. Horsepower is horsepower, regardless of voltage.
60 Hz is 60 Hz can’t add them together

-- MARK IN BOB, So. CAL

View Dick, & Barb Cain's profile

Dick, & Barb Cain

8693 posts in 2966 days


#13 posted 12-30-2007 10:56 PM

Your motor will run much cooler with the lower amperage, extending its life, & with the price of copper, you’ll save when you buy a smaller gauge power cord for it. So go 220V.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

View Catspaw's profile

Catspaw

236 posts in 2481 days


#14 posted 01-01-2008 01:30 AM

o.k. I’m going to see how much trouble I can get into here.

110V/10A = 220V/5A. (Refer to mski Ohm’s law….thanks decou i’m trying to read all that’s there) No energy saving…..except at start up nominally.

220 will save your motor since it starts easier.

Heat is a motors worst enemy. Less amps = less heat = longer life.

Every residential panel has two phases. That’s why one set of breakers is on one side and the other set is on the other side. A 220v breaker is clipped in to contact both of these phases. Each phase is 60 Hz but 180 degs out of phase with each other (refer to BroDave). Each phase is 60 cycles but there are twice as many peaks and valleys. My analogy is….you push a tire [upright], you run after it, push it again. 1 man 1 energy. Or you push, then your friend pushes while you run. You push while your friend runs. It’s easier for both of you but, you use 1/2 the energy as does your friend. Same amount of energy. Just split. And you last longer ‘cause you’re not as tired (....get it….”tired”)

Voltage drop is nominal as most wire is derated for that very reason. Hence, code spec.s for wire. You go up a gauge after about 100’. 40’ or 50’ in a house or garage is usually not enough to signifcantly effect the machine. If your lights are dimming when you turn something on then there are other issues that could be addressed. It may be that with everything else that is turned on, the service to your establishment may have an effect. A 10A draw on 100A service is twice as heavy, in proportion, as the same draw on 200A service.

But don’t let that fool you. Too many outlets have been wired with 14awg on a 15A breaker. There’s a little quirk in the building codes that allows you to put an outlet rated for 15A on a 20A circuit (or 15A). You may have something that needs a 20A circuit that’s wired for 15A. I think people assume their outlets are rated for 20A. That doesn’t quite make sense. But…well….it does to me….maybe it’s not relevant.

uh….my brain is empty now. time for celebration. ( my tag should probably be ‘I talk…..what I say is either right or it’s not….yer choice.)

-- arborial reconfiguration specialist

View bryano's profile

bryano

546 posts in 2599 days


#15 posted 01-01-2008 02:57 AM

As a union electrician of 21 years im going to agree with what brother Dave has to say. 220v is definately more efficient (period).

-- bryano

View Todd A. Clippinger's profile

Todd A. Clippinger

8790 posts in 2766 days


#16 posted 01-01-2008 06:13 AM

As a remodeling contractor, this is why I hire an electrician. I don’t need to know it all, just who to call.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://americancraftsmanworkshop.com

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