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View justinwdemoss's profile

Is my table saw motor dead?

by justinwdemoss
posted 1321 days ago


40 replies so far

View cabmaker's profile

cabmaker

1288 posts in 1411 days


#1 posted 1321 days ago

You will certainly be okay with a 1 1/2hp. Those older craftsmn saws were notorious for collecting sawdust inside the case which was responsible for a rewind in one I had twenty years ago. Good luck !

View Tim Dahn's profile

Tim Dahn

1462 posts in 2168 days


#2 posted 1321 days ago

Is the motor locked up? Try to spin the motor (with the saw unplugged) something may be preventing it from moving, if it spins, try it again.

-- Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgement.

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#3 posted 1321 days ago

Timbo,

I spun the motor shaft by hand, then plugged it back in and turned it on, nothing! Still has the really loud hum/buzz.

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1526 days


#4 posted 1321 days ago

Does it smell funny? Like burnt insulation?

-- Life is good.

View dbhost's profile

dbhost

5378 posts in 1835 days


#5 posted 1321 days ago

It could be a blown start capacitor as well. If you have a shop near you that rebuilds electric motors, see what they want to fix yours…

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

View THOMRIDER's profile

THOMRIDER

97 posts in 1671 days


#6 posted 1321 days ago

well i had the same thing happen to my pool filter motor and it was blown bearings in the rear, causing the magneto to stick to the surrounding magnets and not spin freely hence a buzzing sound, when this happen to me it was more expensive to have it rebuilt than to buy a new one. My motor was a 1.5 hp and I got a 2hp for less than rebuilding the old one. I went to Grainger they had the best price.

If you need any further help let me know.

-- Its all about the jigs

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5369 posts in 1978 days


#7 posted 1321 days ago

I was thinking that it could be a capacitor as well. Check inside the cans on the motor…it’ll look obviously defective if it’s bad…cheap and easy to fix. It could also be a stuck centrifigal switch.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View lew's profile

lew

9954 posts in 2358 days


#8 posted 1321 days ago

I agree with knotscott, about the centrifugal starter switch.

I had an old craftsman radial arm saw that would do this on a regular basis. Sometimes I could fix it by blowing compressed air into the end of the motor. Other times, I had to tear it apart to get the dust out.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#9 posted 1321 days ago

Howie,

There was a bit of a hot smell, but I had noticed that the belt was loose again and this is likely the cause of the slight smell as the belt was starting to slip.

knotscott,

Is the capacitor in the little tube-like cover that is on the outside/back of the motor? How would I know if it is bad?

Then, where would the centrifugal switch be located?

Thanks

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View Camper's profile

Camper

232 posts in 1458 days


#10 posted 1321 days ago

A capacitor is bad if it is swollen or leaking. Those are the two most common visible signs of a bad capacitor. Good Luck

-- Tampa-FL

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#11 posted 1321 days ago

I just took a look at the capacitor, the end with the collections (top) has what appears to be a web-like blobs of white covering half of it. If I didn’t know better, i would think that some insect has built a cocoon on it. At about $2-3 to replace it, I think I will start there. Please let me know if you think this is looking more and more like the problem.

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View cpollock's profile

cpollock

34 posts in 2017 days


#12 posted 1320 days ago

I think we have as much fun fixing these tools as using them, I know I do. Nothing beats the satisfaction of beating the Grim Reaper of tools. Good luck on the motor.

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#13 posted 1320 days ago

Sorry CharlieL,

I used the shop vac to suck some dust out of the motor, but did not try to remove the housing to give it a look. I noticed that the extension cord was a 13 amp and the motor is 14, so this may have lead to the initial problem. i by-passed the cord by moving the saw to the outlet, but that only got the same result. The saw work before the new switch and after for several hours of operation, so I doubt the switch is the issue. When the saw tripped the breaker I thought about the other things on the circuit so I plugged it into a different circuit. It tripped the safety breaker/switch on that power strip. All of your ideas were solid and I tried them out before looking at the capacitor. Sorry for not getting back to you on them. I was in a panic and was hoping for a quick fix and the ideas just kept coming.

Thanks everyone that added their two cents, please keep the ideas coming and I will try to stay up on this post.

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1526 days


#14 posted 1320 days ago

Justin FWiW…my ex wife bought a piece of a bridge just outside Loveland once. (g)

-- Life is good.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5369 posts in 1978 days


#15 posted 1320 days ago

An internal centrifugal switch is usually at the opposite end of the motor as the shaft. If you can get at it, sometimes just tapping it with a screwdriver or probe will release it. Even a light tap on the end with a rubber mallet might release it. You should also spray it liberally with something like WD40.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Tim Dahn's profile

Tim Dahn

1462 posts in 2168 days


#16 posted 1320 days ago

Justin, I have an old Craftsman motor that will not spin and hums (not too loud). I can plug it in then give it a spin to get it going and it will run fine which tells me it probably has a bad capacitor, the capacitor is used to start the motor and is also called the starting capacitor. You could try this (with the belt off and spinning the correct direction). If it does not run then you could look elsewhere, like knotscott explains. Also- if you have an air compressor try blowing out the motor, the more saw dust you get out the better. If you still can’t get it to work then you might start looking for a place to have it repaired or buy another motor.

-- Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgement.

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

2482 posts in 1379 days


#17 posted 1320 days ago

If you are planning to upgrade the motor to 1.5 HP, now is a good time to do it. For the motor to draw locked rotor amps and trip the breaker several times, even if the capacitor is the problem, you have probably damaged the motor windings. When you get a new motor, replace the breaker (they are degraded when actually used that hard).

A locked rotor amp situation is a safety issue, if you are using an undersized cord, or a long cord, I have seen these light up and glow red hot. In a wood shop, that is a situation you really want to avoid. Size the extention cord to cover the locked rotor amps of the largest tool that you could plug into it for the length. Check your wiring to your recptacle and your receptale to make sure ther is no damage as well.

Troubleshoot the motor on the bench, rebuild, rewind it, have fun with it, if you want – after you replace it. Then you have a spare. Create a special cord to do your toubleshooting on your motor with a switch and fuse or breaker rated for the locked rotor amp rating and use this. —- Please—- The idea, and may be over kill, is to have as little potential of heating the wires behind the walls. Those kinds of fires can burn for hours and you don’t know they are there.

Just a thought——

-- David in Damascus, MD

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#18 posted 1320 days ago

knotscott,

I assume that I have to take the shielding/housing off the end to see this? I am headed home early from work today and will try to get a new capacitor at either Grainger or Sears repair center. I plan to replace the capacitor, plow out the motor and look for the centrifugal switch. This saw rehab project has been extremely educational.

Timbo,

I tried spinning the shaft to get the motor started, but still have the belt on. I will take the load off and try your idea. And as mentioned above, will be tracking down a new capacitor and a better extension cord.

David,

Wow! you know a lot more about motors than I ever will. Thank you for the information, but I am hoping that a simple capacitor replacement and dust cleanout is all that is needed. I really don’t have the budget to get a new motor right now. This saw cost almost nothing to get and the wife might leave me if it turns into a money pit. I love saving old tools, but I have my limit. Call it a law of dimenishing returns.

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

2482 posts in 1379 days


#19 posted 1320 days ago

In a former career – Licensed Master Heating, A/C, and Refrigeration; 1st class Stationary Engineer and Licensed Gas fitter. Worked on everything from residential to commercial boilers, chillers, and refrigeration.

-- David in Damascus, MD

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5369 posts in 1978 days


#20 posted 1320 days ago

“knotscott, I assume that I have to take the shielding/housing off the end to see this? “

Possibly, but they vary depending on type. The only time I ever had the centrifugal switch stick was on an open frame motor, so I just sprayed it and poked around with a screwdriver, and voila! It worked.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#21 posted 1320 days ago

OK, so here is the bad news…..new capacitor, dust blown out of motor and still just a loud hum. I can’t find the centrifugal switch as I am unwilling to take the entire housing off the motor and can’t see it through any of the openings. Nothing visible looks like switch from your picture knotscott.

I am thinking of ordering a new motor from Grizzly. They have a 1 hp 3450 rpms 110 volt for $125, or a 1 1/2 hp 3450 rpms 110v for $175 on Amazon.com. They are model numbers G2533 and G2535 respectively.

My wife just told me that Santa is bringing the Delta T2 fence that I wanted, so going back to my craftsman professional jobsite saw is likely out and I had high hopes for this one.

Any thoughts?

I still may see what it would cost to get this motor repaired, but for $125 to get a new motor, having heard high repair bill stories, I think a new may be the way to go.

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5369 posts in 1978 days


#22 posted 1320 days ago

If you’re getting as new motor, I’d pay the extra $50 for 50% more power.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#23 posted 1320 days ago

I am thinking the same thing. I have used direct drive motor saws to thins point, so what will the benefits be of 1/2 more hp? Right now I run a thin kerf blade, I am assuming the regualr kerf and dados will be better. I guess what I am asking is has anyone done this upgrade and what have they noticed?

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View Chriskmb5150's profile

Chriskmb5150

253 posts in 1678 days


#24 posted 1320 days ago

I have a 1 3/4hp 110v motor from a delta 36-715 hybrid saw i used to have. the motor has literally a few minutes run time on it.
Not sure if this motor will fit your saw so check out the link and let me know. its not doing me any good just sitting in my garage.

$75 plus shipping from 76712

-- Woodworkers theory of relativity - the quality of your scrap is relative to your skill level

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#25 posted 1319 days ago

Autumn,

Glad to hear that you had everything work out for you. I do not appear so lucky

Chriskmb5150,

My saw is an open back contractor model, so the motor size is not the problem, Waco TX is pretty far. I appreciate the offer, but I did the shipping on it and $55 is the cheapest UPS can get it here.

CharlieL,

I agree that 1 1/2 is the better option. I am already trying to work some magic to make the budget fit the bigger motor. 1 hp from an old motor was really a struggle on stock over 4/4.

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14612 posts in 2278 days


#26 posted 1319 days ago

have yiou tried giving it a spin when you turn it on?

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View blockhead's profile

blockhead

1450 posts in 1911 days


#27 posted 1319 days ago

If Chris is willing to sell you a larger motor than what you’re looking at, for $130 including shipping, with only a few minutes on it, why not go that route? That’s still a lot cheaper than the 1 1/2 from Amazon and a 1/4 more hp. Just curious…

-- Brad, Oregon- The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first.

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#28 posted 1319 days ago

Chriskmb5150,

I sent you a personal message about the motor offer.

Blockhead,

Thanks for talking some sense into me.

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#29 posted 1319 days ago

Topamax,

Yeah I spun the motor and got nothing.

The old capacitor has two terminals with one attachment each, the new one has two terminals with two attachments for each terminal. Any chance this is the problem? The Capacitors are rated exactly the same.

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5369 posts in 1978 days


#30 posted 1319 days ago

Justin – I think if you check the UPS shipping with a weekday origination date, the price drops down < $40 from Waco, TX to Loveland, OH. When I checked, it defaulted to today as an origination date, so higher fees applied. USPS was also < $40 for a 50# package. Worth checking…

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Camper's profile

Camper

232 posts in 1458 days


#31 posted 1319 days ago

Justin,

I am not sure what you mean by “attachments” on the capacitor but you need the right capacitor for the job. you can read more here

-- Tampa-FL

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#32 posted 1319 days ago

The capacitor I bought has all of the right specs on Grainger’s website, and is listed as “two-blade” as is the broken one, but out of the box, it has two terminals, but four blades – two for each terminal. I assumed this was just a redundancy, but I may be wrong. Again this new capacitor has all the right ratings (216-259v, 110-125, 1 7/16 diameter by 3 3/8 long)

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View blockhead's profile

blockhead

1450 posts in 1911 days


#33 posted 1319 days ago

Sure thing Justin. Now, if I could just do that to myself. lol Good luck with whatever you decide.

-- Brad, Oregon- The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first.

View Chriskmb5150's profile

Chriskmb5150

253 posts in 1678 days


#34 posted 1319 days ago

Motor pics

-- Woodworkers theory of relativity - the quality of your scrap is relative to your skill level

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1526 days


#35 posted 1318 days ago

Check out Grainger.com

-- Life is good.

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#36 posted 1318 days ago

Just paid for the Delta motor from Chris in Waco a few minutes ago. I’ll consider it a Christmas-to-me gift. I will update this topic when the motor arrives and I still it!

Thanks a lot Chris! – Going from 1 hp to 1 /34 hp should be fun!

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View blockhead's profile

blockhead

1450 posts in 1911 days


#37 posted 1315 days ago

Good choice Justin! Great deal as well. Good luck with it and look forward to the update.

-- Brad, Oregon- The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first.

View justinwdemoss's profile

justinwdemoss

146 posts in 1498 days


#38 posted 1241 days ago

Well, I got the motor from Chris in Texas. I got it installed with a new power cord to handle the amps needed. Since then, I have almost finished the new mobile base cabinet for the saw. It really is humming along. Thanks to everyone that gave input on this project. I will post pictures of the whole thing on my shop. I have to finish the overhead dust collection and hood, add a rail and stile cabinet door with peg board panel, and install the Delta T2 fence that was under the tree at Christmas. I think this is really turning into a nice saw and the extra 3/4 hp from Chris’s motor is great!

-- Justin in Loveland, OH

View blockhead's profile

blockhead

1450 posts in 1911 days


#39 posted 1240 days ago

Good deal, glad to hear it worked out for you. Look forward to seeing those pics.

-- Brad, Oregon- The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first.

View Chriskmb5150's profile

Chriskmb5150

253 posts in 1678 days


#40 posted 1240 days ago

Good to hear, Justin. Sounds like you’re building up a nice saw there. Enjoy.

-- Woodworkers theory of relativity - the quality of your scrap is relative to your skill level

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