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View Dennisgrosen's profile

Calling all galoot´s and handtool users - what is this rare plane used for ...one step closer

by Dennisgrosen
posted 11-21-2010 09:16 PM


37 replies so far

View Wes Giesbrecht's profile

Wes Giesbrecht

153 posts in 1562 days


#1 posted 11-21-2010 09:22 PM

Sharpen it, set it up and try it. You’ll soon see what it does. No?

-- Wes Giesbrecht http://www.wesgiesbrecht.com/index.htm

View CampD's profile

CampD

1216 posts in 2237 days


#2 posted 11-21-2010 10:16 PM

Usually with a plane with a riving knife its used to mold across the grain.

-- Doug...

View patron's profile (online now)

patron

13181 posts in 2091 days


#3 posted 11-21-2010 10:18 PM

some kind of ‘v’ groove
or spline plane

don’t really know

so yea
crank it up
and let’s see what it does

imagine all you can do with it
it could change your life lol

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View David Craig's profile

David Craig

2135 posts in 1859 days


#4 posted 11-21-2010 10:20 PM

Dennis,

Interesting tool. Looks to me like a homemade scratch stock. I am thinking someone used this to put a decorative edge on a board. Traditionally, they would use different shaped irons to create different profiles like one would use an edge router bit for today.

Thanks for sharing,

David

-- There is little that is simple when it comes to making a simple box.

View newbiewoodworker's profile

newbiewoodworker

668 posts in 1577 days


#5 posted 11-21-2010 10:32 PM

Maybe to make dados? I know back in the 1700s they certainly didnt have table saws… and I am sure someone would have come up with something like that, rather than chiseling the dados…

-- "Ah, So your not really a newbie, but a I betterbie."

View Paul C.'s profile

Paul C.

154 posts in 1996 days


#6 posted 11-21-2010 11:36 PM

Looks like a side rabbet plane, after a fashion.

View lwllms's profile

lwllms

549 posts in 2032 days


#7 posted 11-22-2010 12:28 AM

I’m thinking it’s a coping plane of some sort. How long is it? what is the width of the groove it cuts? Were there sash or stair building/hand railing tools in the tool chest?

View tdv's profile

tdv

1130 posts in 1820 days


#8 posted 11-22-2010 02:08 AM

Dennis I have seen something like this a long time ago an old carpenter Jack McMaster had a box of really interesting planes & there was a matched pair of them that were similar they had 2 blades and were used for cutting rule joints on the edge of a drop leaf table one blade cut the cove the other cut the quirk,it may be half of a pair but I could be wrong
Trevor

-- God created wood that we may create. Trevor East Yorkshire UK

View jeepturner's profile

jeepturner

928 posts in 1543 days


#9 posted 11-22-2010 02:13 AM

I am thinking it could be used for one half of a rule join. It would set the height with the sole of the drop leaf.

-- Mel,

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#10 posted 11-22-2010 03:20 AM

lwllms : I sorry I have forgot to messure the planes lenght I will do that later in the morning
but the grove it cuts is only about 1½ to 2 mm wide but I will verifir it also
but whats wonder me is that it cut the grove and then cut the arch/cove on the wooden side
of the plane and the next you meet is a fixt iron debt stop /sole on the wooden site

and nothing speciel in the box as I remember a jointer plane , a plovplane, but I will tjeck the last few of them
still have the box seperated from the other stuf

David : I don´t think its a homemade scratch tool it look like there most have been more than a few
that have been made during the time

thank you all for looking by and comment with some interressting proporsals
but I lean more to a sash or door tool instead of a dropleaf on a table i have seen thoose planes
and they don´t have a plovthing build in
but then again its only a wild gess from me

I will make the update picture tommorrow with a ruler beside it so you can see it in inches and mm

take care
Dennis

View jusfine's profile

jusfine

2280 posts in 1676 days


#11 posted 11-22-2010 03:21 AM

Don’t cut it apart… :)

-- Randy "You are judged as much by the questions you ask as the answers you give..."

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#12 posted 11-22-2010 03:22 AM

don´t worry I won´t …....LOL
thanks for looking by jusfine

Dennis

View spunwood's profile

spunwood

1194 posts in 1586 days


#13 posted 11-22-2010 03:32 AM

Backshaver?

-- I came, I was conquered, I was born again. ἵνα ὦσιν ἓν

View patron's profile (online now)

patron

13181 posts in 2091 days


#14 posted 11-22-2010 04:06 AM

on second look

maybe a coving plane
the thin pointed one
cuts a clean edge down
and then the curved one can have a ‘rabbet’ to work in
making a cove on the side of the curved one
as you go deeper and over more
the adjustments need to be done
to each of the irons
to get to final depth and size

hence the adjustment thumb screws

as a toenail clipper
practice on someone else’s toes lol

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View swirt's profile

swirt

1952 posts in 1722 days


#15 posted 11-22-2010 04:40 AM

I agree with the others that said rule joint. The interesting thing about it is that the flat metal face would ride along a flat surface (like the benchtop) and cut the joint on a board also laid flat on the workbench. That way it assures that the resulting joint (and one cut by its mate wherever that is) would end up flat when fit together.

-- Galootish log blog, http://www.timberframe-tools.com

View lwllms's profile

lwllms

549 posts in 2032 days


#16 posted 11-22-2010 05:30 AM

I don’t think it would work as a rule joint plane for a couple reasons. Rule joint planes absolutely must register off the back of the table top and there needs to be a fillet at the table top for a clean joint. They register off the back because that’s the side the hinge is on and hing pin placement is critical for the joint to work properly. The other reason is that rule joints have 90º of arc and that arc must be part of a circle. I don’t see enough curvature in the iron for a rule joint. Having been involved in designing and making rule joint planes, I would eliminate rule joints from the possibilities.

I’ve been thinking about it and I can’t think of a hand railing use for that plane. I think sash work is the most likely answer but it could also have some use in carriage building.

View Lochlainn1066's profile

Lochlainn1066

138 posts in 1528 days


#17 posted 11-22-2010 05:42 AM

It looks like it’s made to register like the third and fourth pictures, like an old style flush cut saw. Then cut in a groove and cove to a fixed depth.

Definitely for a specific profile in a specific place, and used hard enough justify iron “boxing”. You might contact some fine tool experts for their opinions. I’d love to hear the answer!

-- Nate, thegaragestudio.etsy.com

View swirt's profile

swirt

1952 posts in 1722 days


#18 posted 11-22-2010 05:38 PM

Dennis can you verify the angle on that curved iron? It it a full 90 degrees of curve?

lwllms you said one requirement for a rule joint plane would be it must register off the back of the tabletop. If both this plane and the board for the drip wing of the tabletop were registered against the flat surface of a bench, wouldn’t it satisfy that requirement? You also said it needs a fillet at the top. Wouldn’t the fillet just be created by what was left from the previously jointed edge on the board. It looks like the iron fence closest to the wingnuts would run contact the jointed edge of the board.

Here is the way I am envisioning it with a bit of imaginary scrap wood to see the profile.

-- Galootish log blog, http://www.timberframe-tools.com

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#19 posted 11-22-2010 09:42 PM

Swirt : as you can see from the pictures of the blade it cuts in the full arch but I´m going in the shop
in a ½ hour time to take pictures I will see if my wife´s digital can get closer to take the picture
I´m not familaire to this digital age thing ….LOL

later
Dennis

View mrg's profile

mrg

535 posts in 1750 days


#20 posted 11-23-2010 01:51 AM

I was looking at 2 similar to the one you have pictured last week in an antique shop. I bought another plane and was thinking about buying this one just because it was a cool old tool. The one like this was marked as a sill plane and I was told it was to shape the window sill.

Hope that helps.

-- mrg

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#21 posted 11-23-2010 02:51 AM

Thank´s Mrg a new thing to invastigate
Dennis

View Lochlainn1066's profile

Lochlainn1066

138 posts in 1528 days


#22 posted 11-23-2010 03:55 AM

Makes sense. Can form a drip line under the sill even if it’s attached to the house.

-- Nate, thegaragestudio.etsy.com

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#23 posted 11-23-2010 05:00 AM

lwllms : here is some new pictures
and the plovskate is 2,55 mm wide (1/10 of an inch) and the ploviron is 2,8 mm wide

all : after a little dry cleaning I found a few letters saying AHOBEL and UREN and what I gess is the size 1½
my gess is that the plane is made in Germany if that can help

Nate : interresting idea

take care
Dennis

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#24 posted 11-23-2010 03:48 PM

and here is what there was in the box and has been used by the same carpenter in the older times
the only speciel I can see is the unusal saw and the molding plane and the little round compasplane
the scrubplane is a narrow one compared to the other I have
all the other tool he had is gone but I don´t know nothing about it and him

View swirt's profile

swirt

1952 posts in 1722 days


#25 posted 11-23-2010 07:07 PM

Looks like a great collection of new … errr.. old tools. Those stair saws can be pretty handy.

-- Galootish log blog, http://www.timberframe-tools.com

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#26 posted 11-23-2010 07:25 PM

Thank´s Steve :-) I have never seen one with this long handle before
I very well know the short version and unfortunaly no marks except the previus owners
so maybee that one is homemade

Dennis

View tdv's profile

tdv

1130 posts in 1820 days


#27 posted 11-23-2010 08:19 PM

The curved one Dennis is a router for cleaning out trenches or dados he made quite a fancy job of it,probably used it in conjunction with the stair saw for cutting the housings into the stringers to take the treads & risers. It’s a really interesting collection my friend
Best regards
Trevor

-- God created wood that we may create. Trevor East Yorkshire UK

View swirt's profile

swirt

1952 posts in 1722 days


#28 posted 11-23-2010 10:52 PM

Dennis if I am not mistaken (which I often am) the long handle on your stair saw makes sense….at least as far as I can tell from the photo, those teeth look like they cut on the pull stroke rather than the push like the shorter handled stair saws. Seems like a very effective design.

-- Galootish log blog, http://www.timberframe-tools.com

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#29 posted 11-23-2010 11:25 PM

Swirt the short saws I have seen saw both ways and theeth change directions in the mittle
I have always found them a litle clumsy to use
but you can bett I´ll will set this one up and have it in my toolbox in the future :-)

Dennis

View Waldschrat's profile

Waldschrat

505 posts in 2186 days


#30 posted 12-22-2010 03:55 PM

Dennis hello! And hello to all! Happy christmas!

The long saw is what is called in German a “Gratsäge” eng: A sliding dovetail saw, swirt yes you are correct it is used for pulling, I do not know about stairs, although many years ago, stairs were comonly made with the steps dovetailed with a sliding dovetail into the ” cheek”

The Plane is like stated above a type of profil plane or moulding plane, My guess would be that it is used for a counterprofile to the so called “Deutschestab.” so a type of quarter round with a small rebate mould. I must admit I am not 100% sure, but from the looks of it that would be my best bet. Have you tried it out yet? It looks like it would pass really well with a “Deutschestab” type Mould!

-- Nicholas, Cabinet/Furniture Maker, Blue Hill, Maine

View Knothead62's profile

Knothead62

2364 posts in 1711 days


#31 posted 12-22-2010 04:58 PM

I’m totally ignorant when it comes to planes but I have found this post most interesting. Goes to show the ingenuity of the craftsmen of days gone by. Just think if they had the ‘Net and a bunch of LJs.

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#32 posted 12-22-2010 09:29 PM

Nicholas : Hello Hello your self :-) and Merry Chrismas to you and the fammily
I gess you are busy on the school since it had been solong time we have seen you :-)
I thought the saw was influenced from Norway becourse there they had found a viking saw
simular to it but looked little like a longboat were the blade was in the mittle section
so Thank´s for the update on that one :-)

the word “Deutschestab” I don´t know I have maybee seen what it is many many years before
I was interresested in woodworking but maybee you are right this litte thing has realy develobed
to be like a archaeological invastigation …LOL
and no I havn´t tried it yet but it is lined up to be cleaned and set up in near future
and i will resive a few more that is simular to this one maybee they can give some more clues

Knothead : thank´s for looking , yes some clever craftmens around in those days
but I think we shuold be glad that they didn´t had the net in those days.
why ? we wuoldn´t have the divercity and all the differrent possibillity´s we have today
try to see how differrent woodworkers in europe and in US not to forget Asien
approch the things they are making and all the differrent solutions they use to end
up with the same result in the end
just one thing is the way the tablesawblades tilt against or away from the fence depending of
where you are :-)

Merry Chrismas
Dennis

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#33 posted 02-23-2011 05:43 PM

good day folk´s
after I have started serius refurbing my planes and my last handtool gloat
I have come one step closer to where they seem to be used but still a long way from it

I have taken the plane apart and cleaned the wood a bit as you can see in the picture
the text now say … 1½….. ontrahobel…....fur turen (the u´s has two smal dots over them just don´t
have the letter on my keybord or remember how to find it )

so my gess is that it is 1½ inch ….contraplane for doors …...what ever that meens sofare
.
.


.
.
the next picture show two more from my last gloat :-) diffrent size´s , but sadly glue to a board like a picture
and have no text at all … but it convince me that it can´t bee a home made tool even though they have
a little diffrent shape in both ends of the handle
.

.
.
.
take care
Dennis

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3735 posts in 2485 days


#34 posted 02-23-2011 06:12 PM

It’s an 18th Century Plane Stop! Because even then, Consumer Product Safety was of such great importance, that somebody invented a molding plane that would engage a brake, stopping the plane in 23 milliseconds before the user’s hands became mangled in the cutter. This is a very rare plane you have there, Dennis!! ;-)

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1866 days


#35 posted 02-23-2011 06:20 PM

:——)))) LOL
Poopikat that was a real good one ….you just saved the day :—)))

take care
Dennis

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1444 days


#36 posted 09-10-2011 09:32 PM

I love it, Dennis!

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View mafe's profile

mafe

9687 posts in 1840 days


#37 posted 09-10-2011 09:33 PM

Hi Dennis,
I think I never saw this post before!
What a wonderful lot of tools.
I can’t guess the use of the plane, I have looked and looked and looked but no answer seems to show up…
Best thoughts buddy,
Mads

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

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