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Restoring hand plane-1st timer w/ questions

by jtrz
posted 01-27-2018 01:26 AM


32 replies so far

View BlasterStumps's profile

BlasterStumps

900 posts in 588 days


#1 posted 01-27-2018 01:53 AM

You might try a wire brush on the spots then treat with WD-40. If they are etched in, might need to sand more in order to get rid of them. One other option would be to put the whole body of the plane in a soak of Evapo-rust or something similar. That would leave the etched areas although they shouldn’t rust afterwards, especially if you treat with WD 40. If you solve the rusting problem you mentioned, the spots shouldn’t affect the performance of the plane.

-- "I build for function first, looks second. Most times I never get around to looks." - Mike, western Colorado

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jtrz

160 posts in 1322 days


#2 posted 01-27-2018 05:18 AM



You might try a wire brush on the spots then treat with WD-40. If they are etched in, might need to sand more in order to get rid of them. One other option would be to put the whole body of the plane in a soak of Evapo-rust or something similar. That would leave the etched areas although they shouldn t rust afterwards, especially if you treat with WD 40. If you solve the rusting problem you mentioned, the spots shouldn t affect the performance of the plane.

- BlasterStumps

Do you recommend a brass wire brush or something heavier?

-- Jeff | Louisville, Ky

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

15584 posts in 2767 days


#3 posted 01-27-2018 05:46 AM

The spots are character, and don’t mean a thing. Soak a rag w/ wd40 and wipe the plane down to prevent rust. Looking good!

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View jtrz's profile

jtrz

160 posts in 1322 days


#4 posted 01-27-2018 10:12 PM

So I the little spots have to be put aside for now because I noticed something just a minute ago that has me a bit worried and bummed. It looks like the sole has tiny, tiny cracks at the corners of the mouth. They are hard to see and harder to take a photo of but I ran a photo through photoshop and You should be able to see what I am talking about.

Is this something to be worried about?

-- Jeff | Louisville, Ky

View Don W's profile

Don W

18969 posts in 2716 days


#5 posted 01-27-2018 11:01 PM

If the plane is going to be a jack plane, I’d suggest Just using it. The cracks will get worse and there is no easy way to fix them.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View jtrz's profile

jtrz

160 posts in 1322 days


#6 posted 01-27-2018 11:31 PM

That is not what I wanted to hear. What a shame. This was my great grandfathers. It’s over a hundred years old.

Well, at least I can still use it. I’ll get it into shape and looking nice to show my grandfather and keep an eye out for another jack plane.

-- Jeff | Louisville, Ky

View bandit571's profile (online now)

bandit571

21313 posts in 2832 days


#7 posted 01-27-2018 11:48 PM

There is a fellow, named Dave Bardin….who silver brazes cracked plane bodies…..the Millers Falls #14 I have been using of late…was repaired by Dave.

As for that tiny crack? Not worth worrying about….keep an eye on it, but, don’t worry too much about it.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View jtrz's profile

jtrz

160 posts in 1322 days


#8 posted 01-28-2018 02:30 AM

That’s a little more reassuring.

Here’s what the sole and the sides are looking like right now

I still can’t get rid of those darker marks and you can see one of the sides has some as well. The other side is as clean as a baby’s you know. After working on it for a while I am pretty sure that the black marks are just large pitted areas and I just can’t get in there to clean them out. Someone mentioned evaporust but I don’t have any. Only thing I have is citric acid which I am going to need on a few parts on some of my other planes.

I was thinking about making a super diluted solution of it and just work it into some of the marks with a brush but unless someone chimes in and says “yeah that will totally work” I am just going to let the sole be as it is. Though looking at that photo again those damn marks are really bothering me.

Anyways, on to the frog and the iron and cap iron, etc. I am just going to clean the rust off of them and I’m probably going to hold off on honing the iron until I practice honing some chisels. I’ve got 3 arkansas stones and one of those honing guides from Robert Larson and I haven’t used them yet.

The handle on this plane has a chip on the top as you can see

I know it’s not a big deal and won’t effect how it works but I would like to clean it up. Should I just hand sand it? If it ends up that I need to refinish the handle what do you all recommend? BLO? Shellac?

Thanks guys for all the help and hand holding. And definitely chime in to scold me for doing something wrong.

-- Jeff | Louisville, Ky

View rhybeka's profile

rhybeka

4314 posts in 3270 days


#9 posted 01-28-2018 03:10 AM

it’s really up to you as to what you use. I use a combination of beeswax and mineral oil. :) I would say just hand sand it until it feels good (and there’s nothing sharp to catch your hand on). there’s a lot of details to get caught up in with plane cleaning/restoration and everyone does it just a bit differently because it’s what works for them. :) j

-- Beka/Becky - aspiring jill of all trades, still learning to not read the directions.

View LittleShaver's profile

LittleShaver

398 posts in 768 days


#10 posted 01-28-2018 01:17 PM

I would leave the tote as it is. Your grandfather may have a story to tell about the chip. A brass wire brush or wheel works well to get the rust out of pits. If you’re having rust re-appear quickly, apply a coat of oil or wax when you quit working on it for the day. Unprotected metal loves to rust. I use the Paul Sellers oil can to coat my tools. Stuff a rag into a small can, soak it with a light oil (I use 3 in1), then just wipe down your tools after using.

-- Sawdust Maker

View Mr_Pink's profile

Mr_Pink

133 posts in 520 days


#11 posted 01-28-2018 01:46 PM

I would clean up the iron and cap iron, and put this plane to work. It looks good.

View jtrz's profile

jtrz

160 posts in 1322 days


#12 posted 01-28-2018 10:13 PM

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Really appreciate it.

No story behind the tote most likely. My grandfather probably didn’t use the planes all that much. They probably haven’t been used and have just been sitting in the basement for the last 40 years. I already sanded the knick out of the tote. The knob has a some kind of burn mark on it that I am going to work out. I’ll give them a good sanding and was thinking of just putting some shellac on them. I think I have that spray on shellac. Then a bit of wax.

I worked on the frog last night and here is where it stands…

I worked on it for a while and still couldn’t get the front of the frog cleaned up. I feel like the whole thing needs to be flat, especially that front edge but what do I know. How far should I take this? Lap it until the whole things is flat?

-- Jeff | Louisville, Ky

View Sludgeguy's profile

Sludgeguy

34 posts in 271 days


#13 posted 01-29-2018 01:13 AM

Roland Johnson had a nice article in Fine Woodworking a few years ago. I can find the date if you want to find it in your library. He has a video class for about $40 but I think that’s a bit pricey.

I restored a couple of No. 5 Baileys using his directions and they turned out fine. I don’t think he suggested flattening the top of the frog but he did use lapping compound to seat the frog on the body.

Mine performed pretty well with the original blade but I put a new Hock blade on it based on some advice and the improvement was noticeable.

View TheFridge's profile (online now)

TheFridge

10360 posts in 1635 days


#14 posted 01-29-2018 07:03 AM

I wouldn’t try to do spots. More than like you get a bunch of flash rusting and it would have to be pretty strong to work that way. You can make it pretty strong without hurting anything. I usually stopped when i couldn’t take it getting into the cuts in my hands.

Have a tub of water and baking soda nearby to neutralize and dry it as fast as you can or it might flash rust. It’s Easily cleaned off but just be aware.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Tim's profile

Tim

3812 posts in 2110 days


#15 posted 01-29-2018 01:56 PM

Those spots are indeed some pitting. I agree with just counting them as character, but it you really want to get them out, the only way would be to remove enough metal from the plane to get to the bottom of the pits. Short of that, evaporust is a good way to go. It won’t remove the pits obviously, but it can lessen the appearance of them especially if you wire brush them after. Come to think of it it’s worth trying the wire brush first before chemical methods, as it may do enough. Try a fine brass wheel first, then you can work up to coarser steel or braided steel, etc if you want. I usually use citric acid instead of evaporust because it is so much cheaper than evaporust, but it does etch all of the metal a little bit. Evaporust is acid based too but it has other things in it that seem to make it gentler on the metal that isn’t rusted. The cost is not worth it to me except for tools that are special in some way. It’s $25 a gallon or so so not terribly expensive and a gallon can clean a lot of tools since you use it over and over.

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jtrz

160 posts in 1322 days


#16 posted 02-18-2018 06:05 PM

It’s been a while but I’m slowly moving ahead with my restoration and really the only thing I have left to do is finish sharpening the iron and cap iron, do a little buffing here and there and applying a finish to the tote and knob.

However, I am now realizing that I may have made a bit of a mistake with the sharpening stones I bought. I purchased a set of 3 arkansas stones (soft, hard, and black) and while the stones are great, the size of them is not. They are 8” long but only 2” wide. The plane iron is 2” wide so I’m either going to have to figure out some technique for my wider plane irons or start saving for some wider stones. I am using that $8 or $10 Robert Larson honing guide.

Does anyone have any experience or tips for making a 2” sharpening stone work for plane irons?

These stones are brand new as well and I’ve never used oil stones before so any tips or things I should know would also be helpful. The soft and hard stones seemed to do a good job but when I move to the black one it doesn’t seem to have much effect or even seems to be only touching on certain parts of the bevel.

The iron was much sharper and much more polished after the hard arkansas. When I took it to the black this was the result. So I am definitely doing something wrong. I have been using 3 in 1 for the oil FYI.

Should I maybe break in the stones some by sharpening some chisels? I read somewhere that brand new stones aren’t as smooth due to the way they are flattened but get smoother with use.

Any tips or advice would be great. Thanks

-- Jeff | Louisville, Ky

View BlasterStumps's profile

BlasterStumps

900 posts in 588 days


#17 posted 02-18-2018 06:21 PM

My first sharpening experience was using the set up like you have. I was taught to skew the tool slightly so that it would fit the width of the stone easily and sharpen in a figure 8 movement.

I don’t know what the black stone is but it is possible that it is not flat or as flat as the other stones. If you skew the iron while sharpening and move it in a figure 8 fashion it should still sharpen it across the width of the blade I would think.
I have an old DMT diamond plate and one water stone. After the 8000 water stone, I use the green compound on a strop. Seems to do okay. My diamond plate is 3” I think but I still skew the blade when I sharpen. I don’t use a jig, just do it by feel.

It took me some time to learn how to really get the edge I wanted. I think I was over thinking the whole process and doing more worrying than I should have.

-- "I build for function first, looks second. Most times I never get around to looks." - Mike, western Colorado

View Don W's profile

Don W

18969 posts in 2716 days


#18 posted 02-18-2018 06:39 PM

I use a diesel fuel, mineral oil mix with the oil stones. You can use straight diesel as well.

I sharpen everything on my 2” stone. I use a skewed approach in a w ot figure 8 pattern as well.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Johnny7's profile

Johnny7

384 posts in 1239 days


#19 posted 02-18-2018 07:12 PM

agree with both of the posts immediately above, but in addition, there is no rule against going back and forth across the width of the stone.
Occasionally switching pattern also helps keep the stone flat.

View TheFridge's profile (online now)

TheFridge

10360 posts in 1635 days


#20 posted 02-18-2018 07:36 PM

Looking at the iron, you should relieve the edges or camber it. Unless you plan on using it to work stock that is smaller than the iron. It’ll leave tracks.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View jtrz's profile

jtrz

160 posts in 1322 days


#21 posted 02-18-2018 08:03 PM

I’ll give the figure 8 approach a try. With the honing guide I’m using that may be difficult though. I’m not very confident in my ability to maintain the bevel if i do it by hand but I might practice that a bit with one of the crappy block plane irons I have sitting around.

One thing I noticed earlier today was that one of the sides of my honing guide that clamps the iron isn’t straight. The other side one is perfect though. This is the Robert Larson honing guide.

I have to think this is not helping things. Hopefully they will send me a new one.


It took me some time to learn how to really get the edge I wanted. I think I was over thinking the whole process and doing more worrying than I should have.
- BlasterStumps

I would say that I definitely am overthinking things. Overthinking is hardwired into my brain but I may as well over think this restoration and have a better understanding of what actually works on my next one.

-- Jeff | Louisville, Ky

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jtrz

160 posts in 1322 days


#22 posted 02-18-2018 08:09 PM

Oh and if anyone knows how to stop the tote on my no 5 from turning black when I try to apply any kind of finish I would love to hear it. Here it is after I applied a coat of shellac (disclaimer: it’s zinsser clear shellac and I know that real stuff is much better) and then after I sanded it down again with some 220.

I’d love to get some of the red back. It had a nice color before I did some repair and reshaping.

The tote is probably a 110 years old and I know age really plays a part with rosewood.

Thanks

-- Jeff | Louisville, Ky

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jtrz

160 posts in 1322 days


#23 posted 02-18-2018 08:12 PM



Looking at the iron, you should relieve the edges or camber it. Unless you plan on using it to work stock that is smaller than the iron. It’ll leave tracks.

- TheFridge

Is it best to do that before I sharpen it? What is the best approach to giving it a camber: using one of the stones or a little lapping on a high grit sandpaper, something else?

-- Jeff | Louisville, Ky

View bandit571's profile (online now)

bandit571

21313 posts in 2832 days


#24 posted 02-18-2018 09:18 PM

ust press down on one corner for a few strokes, and then the other corner…..only worrying about the corners…no need for a big old curve….save that for a scrub plane.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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TheFridge

10360 posts in 1635 days


#25 posted 02-18-2018 09:50 PM

I do it after primary bevel. Cambering it a hair accomplishes the same thing.

Yes before honing/sharpening.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Don W's profile

Don W

18969 posts in 2716 days


#26 posted 02-19-2018 12:02 AM

Try just wax, no other finish.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Roy Turbett's profile

Roy Turbett

168 posts in 3728 days


#27 posted 02-19-2018 03:55 AM

This may or may not have been the case when you did your restoration, but the plane should be fully assembled with the blade retracted when flattening the sole. This puts the same stress on the metal that is present when the plane is being used and will make it more accurate.

View ksSlim's profile

ksSlim

1286 posts in 3038 days


#28 posted 02-19-2018 05:29 AM

jtrz, apply mill file to the non-square side of your guide.

Oxoaltic acid is a “bleach” used on leather and wood to lighten tone or color.

Leather dyes are alcohol based and work well on wood.
Test on underside of tote. These dyes can be diluted with denatured alcohol (DNA).
Russet shade yields a red/brown color, black yields grey to black color depending absorb rate.

20 years as saddle maker and other leather products.

-- Sawdust and shavings are therapeutic

View TheFridge's profile (online now)

TheFridge

10360 posts in 1635 days


#29 posted 02-19-2018 06:46 AM

Oh. As far as your guide goes. One side is flat and the other is curved. That one point of pressure keeps it registered against the flat side. Perfectly fine.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View pdbailey40's profile

pdbailey40

6 posts in 827 days


#30 posted 02-21-2018 01:49 AM


One thing I noticed earlier today was that one of the sides of my honing guide that clamps the iron isn t straight. The other side one is perfect though. This is the Robert Larson honing guide.

There is nothing wrong with your honing guide. They are designed this way. It is the three legged stool principle. A single contact point on the curved side pressing the iron against the flat side to prevent wobbling.

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TheFridge

10360 posts in 1635 days


#31 posted 02-21-2018 03:02 AM

Ditto

Wax only like don said on rosewood. It’ll darken but lighten up once it dries.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View jtrz's profile

jtrz

160 posts in 1322 days


#32 posted 02-28-2018 08:49 PM

Finally getting a chance to respond.

Sharpening has been put on hold because after hours of frustration using my new arkansas stones and getting scratched surfaces instead of polished surfaces I realized that my hard and black stones were not flat. The black was especially bad. Luckily, I contacted the company and they are sending me a replacement set that should be here soon. I was really pulling my hair out before I realized that.


This may or may not have been the case when you did your restoration, but the plane should be fully assembled with the blade retracted when flattening the sole. This puts the same stress on the metal that is present when the plane is being used and will make it more accurate.

- Roy Turbett

All of my sole flattening has been done this way. I’ve been using granite tiles and they have been working really well.


jtrz, apply mill file to the non-square side of your guide.

- ksSlim


Oh. As far as your guide goes. One side is flat and the other is curved. That one point of pressure keeps it registered against the flat side. Perfectly fine.

- TheFridge


There is nothing wrong with your honing guide. They are designed this way. It is the three legged stool principle. A single contact point on the curved side pressing the iron against the flat side to prevent wobbling.

- pdbailey40

You all are right. I watched a video of someone using the guide on youtube after I posted and saw that his was the same way.


Try just wax, no other finish.

- Don W


Ditto

Wax only like don said on rosewood. It’ll darken but lighten up once it dries.

- TheFridge

I’ll give it a shot. On another thread on this forum someone mentioned that the tote and knob were walnut which I kind of agree with but I’ve done a lot of research on rosewoods, especially old rosewood, and I’ve seen examples where it look pretty brown. So who knows. I’ll throw some wax on it and see how it goes.

I’ll post with updated pics as soon as I can

-- Jeff | Louisville, Ky

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