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View IantheTinker's profile

Brad Nail Blowout

by IantheTinker
posted 01-26-2018 01:55 AM


40 replies so far

View Ripper70's profile

Ripper70

800 posts in 816 days


#1 posted 01-26-2018 02:12 AM

The different densities in the layers of plywood can sometimes cause the nail to take a path of least resistance and veer off course. I’ve had this happen more than once. You can try a couple of things to fix your issue.

Method #1) Do not try to back the nail out of the hole. Rather, pull it through and hope it’s only a minor repair.

Method #2) Grab the end of the nail that’s sticking through the piece and bend it back and forth to break it off. Most times it will break off just below the surface of the wood and the marred surface will have a minor imperfection that can be repaired.

I’ve taken to using glue with trim moldings and 23 gauge pin nails to hold the trim in place while the glue sets. For me, a much better approach, and virtually no need to fill nail holes after the trim is installed.

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

452 posts in 70 days


#2 posted 01-26-2018 02:16 AM

if it is a good clean protrusion, I would just cut it off flush and bury it with a nail set
of the same size and mix some wood flour the same color and fill the hole.
the more you tug and pull on it – the worse it will get.
No.1 tool choice would be flush cut end nippers.
No.2 tool choice would be the basic side cutters.

this is a good tool to have in your box if you are going to be doing much brad work.
any set of side cutters can be ground to have a flat flush cutter side and blunt nose
as long as you can put some power in it. . . . also the Dremel Tool with a cut-off wheel will work well.

.

View Gilley23's profile

Gilley23

489 posts in 289 days


#3 posted 01-26-2018 02:32 AM

Yeah, sometimes you can’t help it. The end of the nails are chiseled so if your angle is even slightly off and they hit a tougher spot they’ll curve and shoot out somewhere else. Remove and repair.

View IantheTinker's profile

IantheTinker

136 posts in 34 days


#4 posted 01-26-2018 02:47 AM


I ve taken to using glue with trim moldings and 23 gauge pin nails to hold the trim in place while the glue sets. For me, a much better approach, and virtually no need to fill nail holes after the trim is installed.

- Ripper70

I recently saw a video, from Woodworkers Guild of America I think, and the fella in that also used 23 gauge pin nails. They left such tiny holes, I will have to get a pin nailer at some point so that I can switch to them as well. Thanks for the reply!

-- “How you feeling, Roy?”... “a little unappreciated, Al...” - Die Hard

View IantheTinker's profile

IantheTinker

136 posts in 34 days


#5 posted 01-26-2018 02:47 AM



if it is a good clean protrusion, I would just cut it off flush and bury it with a nail set
of the same size and mix some wood flour the same color and fill the hole.
the more you tug and pull on it – the worse it will get.
No.1 tool choice would be flush cut end nippers.
No.2 tool choice would be the basic side cutters.

- John Smith

I think I will give this a try, thank you, John.

-- “How you feeling, Roy?”... “a little unappreciated, Al...” - Die Hard

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

2293 posts in 496 days


#6 posted 01-26-2018 05:20 AM

What gauge? 16, 18, 23?

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

753 posts in 511 days


#7 posted 01-26-2018 05:49 AM

The greatest $/usage tool value on the planet. (at least for me) Use it ALL of the time. Mine is 4 yrs old and still cuts brads like butter. Then, like somebody said, tap the end with a nail set and you’re good to go after a dab of putty or glue and sawdust. Plywood is funny like that.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

818 posts in 2990 days


#8 posted 01-26-2018 10:40 AM

You mentioned the chiseled tip on the nails, so I assume that you are aware that you need to hold the nail gun perpendicular to the plywood(or molding) edge?
Another mistake I see quite a few people make, is using nails that are too long for the given task. The longer the nail, especially with the lighter gauge 23’s, the more prone they are to curl/veer.

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

3912 posts in 2216 days


#9 posted 01-26-2018 11:03 AM

https://youtu.be/aXIH2c_1PzE

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

912 posts in 1543 days


#10 posted 01-26-2018 04:30 PM

Not only can the brad nail deviate its course and pop out of the board, it can pop right into your finger too!
This is why I keep my fingers well away from what I am shooting a brad nail into.
I agree with the previous comment about using a brad that is longer than needed.
Almost all of my blowouts have happened when I had a longer brad than I really needed but I was either too lazy to stop and change them out or I was using what I had “on-hand”.

I have used a nail set a few times to push the brad back into the wood and then repair the area with sawdust and glue. I have even used a pencil to draw the grain back onto my patch and it is surprising how well it blended in.

-- The less an idiot knows, the louder he seems to know it!

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

1710 posts in 1294 days


#11 posted 01-26-2018 05:02 PM


You mentioned the chiseled tip on the nails, so I assume that you are aware that you need to hold the nail gun perpendicular to the plywood(or molding) edge?
Another mistake I see quite a few people make, is using nails that are too long for the given task. The longer the nail, especially with the lighter gauge 23 s, the more prone they are to curl/veer.

- Tony_S

+1.
The brads can usually only bend left or right so if you orient the gun properly and don’t nail too close to the end, it is less likely to veer off course and if it does it will still be inside the plywood.

What I have done when I have forgotten this or couldn’t turn the nail gun in the proper orientation was to pull the brad all the way through where it protruded to remove the errant brad. Of course fixing the damaged veneer is another problem.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View jbay's profile

jbay

2050 posts in 806 days


#12 posted 01-26-2018 05:10 PM

Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.
I just use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.

-- If anyone would like to see my Portfolio, PM me and I would be glad to send you the link.

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

452 posts in 70 days


#13 posted 01-26-2018 05:56 PM

jbay: “Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.”

I do – I have the time to do quality work.
My tools are organized and I don’t have to “go find” anything.

.

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

2293 posts in 496 days


#14 posted 01-26-2018 06:48 PM


jbay: “Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.”

I do – I have the time to do quality work.
My tools are organized and I don t have to “go find” anything.

- John Smith

I’ve seen jbay’s portfolio, John. You might do well to rethink that “quality work” crack.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

3912 posts in 2216 days


#15 posted 01-26-2018 06:52 PM

https://youtu.be/aXIH2c_1PzE

jbay: “Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.”

I do – I have the time to do quality work.
My tools are organized and I don t have to “go find” anything.

- John Smith

I ve seen jbay s portfolio, John. You might do well to rethink that “quality work” snip.

- Rich


Yes you have to give jaybay that, he does very nice work. You should take the time to look at he stuff.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View jbay's profile

jbay

2050 posts in 806 days


#16 posted 01-26-2018 07:41 PM


jbay: “Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.”

I do – I have the time to do quality work.
My tools are organized and I don t have to “go find” anything.

- John Smith

Of course you do John.
From what I’ve read from your responses you are an expert in every field…
(Except preventing kickback, still need a little work there!)
Kuddos

-- If anyone would like to see my Portfolio, PM me and I would be glad to send you the link.

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

452 posts in 70 days


#17 posted 01-26-2018 08:04 PM

hey – I just answered the mans question as he presented it.

as for kickbacks: yep – once bitten, twice learned on that one !!!

I guess the part that didn’t click well with me is when he said: I just use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.

View Ripper70's profile

Ripper70

800 posts in 816 days


#18 posted 01-26-2018 08:08 PM


jbay: “Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.”

I do – I have the time to do quality work.
My tools are organized and I don t have to “go find” anything.

- John Smith

Of course you do John.
From what I ve read from your responses you are an expert in every field…
(Except preventing kickback, still need a little work there!)
Kuddos

- jbay

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

3301 posts in 620 days


#19 posted 01-26-2018 09:17 PM

just as Tony said you are holding gun wrong way :<))

-- Tony Reinholds,Pa. REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

2293 posts in 496 days


#20 posted 01-26-2018 10:55 PM


jbay: “Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.”

I do – I have the time to do quality work.
My tools are organized and I don t have to “go find” anything.

- John Smith


hey – I just answered the mans question as he presented it.

- John Smith

Sounded more like a cheap shot to me.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

2293 posts in 496 days


#21 posted 01-26-2018 11:53 PM


I was installing some trim on a dvd shelf I am working on and I had 2 brad nails go wonky on me and punch through the birch veneer on the plywood. I was careful to line my gun up properly so that the chiseled tip of the nail had plenty of room to veer off, but it still happened. How can I fix this? One of them is not so bad, but the other was quite obvious. I tried pulling the trim away, but the other nails were holding it in place too well and I was afraid of scuffing things up. Any tips are appreciated, thank you.

- IantheTinker

You never answered what gauge this was, but since others have been giving 23 ga advice, I’ll add that I found that lowering the pressure to 60 to 70 psi helps 23 ga pins from going bonkers.

Before someone tries to claim that pins can’t be driven into hardwood at that pressure (some claim they can’t at all…lol), I’ll just say that I’ve driven 1-3/8” 23 ga pins into ipe at that pressure with consistent success.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View IantheTinker's profile

IantheTinker

136 posts in 34 days


#22 posted 01-27-2018 12:05 AM

It was an 18 gauge nail, I was holding it the correct way because I learned from John Heisz, lol. I was, however, using a longer brad than I really needed because it was the shortest I had on hand at the time. Today I went out and got a pin nailer and a selection of 23 gauge nails. They will be easier to hide when I do trim work and I can use the shorter ones when called for.

-- “How you feeling, Roy?”... “a little unappreciated, Al...” - Die Hard

View jbay's profile

jbay

2050 posts in 806 days


#23 posted 01-27-2018 12:18 AM



hey – I just answered the mans question as he presented it.

as for kickbacks: yep – once bitten, twice learned on that one !!!

I guess the part that didn t click well with me is when he said: I just use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.

- John Smith


I wasn’t going to comment on this again, but my curiosity got the best of me.
Why did the quote, I just use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.
not click well with you?
I’m trying to understand why you have a problem with that.

-- If anyone would like to see my Portfolio, PM me and I would be glad to send you the link.

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1249 posts in 1637 days


#24 posted 01-27-2018 01:00 AM


hey – I just answered the mans question as he presented it.

as for kickbacks: yep – once bitten, twice learned on that one !!!

I guess the part that didn t click well with me is when he said: I just use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.

- John Smith

I wasn t going to comment on this again, but my curiosity got the best of me.
Why did the quote, I just use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.
not click well with you?
I m trying to understand why you have a problem with that.

- jbay

Jbay, what I find amusing about his statement is it really doesn’t matter whether you use the gun or a nail set. The nail gun will do a much better job of hiding the nail than a nail set. You don’t have to worry that the nail set slips off the nail and makes a larger mess…......

Some people have good things to offer, and some don’t…...... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View IantheTinker's profile

IantheTinker

136 posts in 34 days


#25 posted 01-27-2018 01:35 AM



Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.
I just use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.

- jbay

Perhaps I will try that method next time. It would keep me from trying to swing a hammer in confined spaces, or risking missing the nail and hitting the workpiece.

-- “How you feeling, Roy?”... “a little unappreciated, Al...” - Die Hard

View jbay's profile

jbay

2050 posts in 806 days


#26 posted 01-27-2018 02:39 AM


Jbay, what I find amusing about his statement is it really doesn t matter whether you use the gun or a nail set. The nail gun will do a much better job of hiding the nail than a nail set. You don t have to worry that the nail set slips off the nail and makes a larger mess…......

Some people have good things to offer, and some don t…...... Jerry (in Tucson)

- Nubsnstubs


Thanks Jerry,
I get much cleaner result using the gun.
Too many times the punch slides off the brad and ends up putting a punch hole next to the brad doubling the mess.

Perhaps I will try that method next time. It would keep me from trying to swing a hammer in confined spaces, or risking missing the nail and hitting the workpiece.

- IantheTinker


Takes a little getting used to knowing where the pin will hit, but after you get the hang of it it makes it pretty easy.

-- If anyone would like to see my Portfolio, PM me and I would be glad to send you the link.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

3912 posts in 2216 days


#27 posted 01-27-2018 03:38 AM

Just for the record, hold the gun in the correct orientation done not guarantee you’ll never experience a blowout.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

2293 posts in 496 days


#28 posted 01-27-2018 04:21 AM


Just for the record, hold the gun in the correct orientation done not guarantee you ll never experience a blowout.

- AlaskaGuy

I’ve never had an 18 ga brad nailer “blow out” in the sense that the brad did anything but go straight where I aimed it. When I first got my 23 ga pin nailer, those babies went all over the place. I even had them make a u-turn and come straight back through the surface I shot them into. Such a tight curve that the material I was trying to nail to didn’t even get touched.

The first thing I figured out was the lower pressure I mentioned above, but after posting a request for help on here, I got the real scoop. That was that the double chisel point on the pin meant that the pin would either veer right or left, so it’s best to keep that in mind when you are nailing near an edge.

I should add to that the fact that it seemed to be exacerbated when the gun was inline with the wood grain, meaning the chisel point on the pin was at the mercy of the grain. Keeping it perpendicular to the grain means the pin is slicing the grain, not running with it, and I’ve seen a 95% improvement as a result.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View toolie's profile

toolie

2109 posts in 2536 days


#29 posted 01-27-2018 02:10 PM



Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.
I just use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.

- jbay

What is “the set pin on the nailer”?

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View IantheTinker's profile

IantheTinker

136 posts in 34 days


#30 posted 01-27-2018 02:45 PM


Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.
I just use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.

- jbay

What is “the set pin on the nailer”?

- toolie

The pin that drives the nail into the board, the air drives the pin which in turn sets the nail. That is why there is usually a hole on the surface of the board just a smidge bigger than the nail, that is from the set pin coming in contact with the board when it drives in the nail.

-- “How you feeling, Roy?”... “a little unappreciated, Al...” - Die Hard

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1249 posts in 1637 days


#31 posted 01-27-2018 02:46 PM


Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.
I just use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.

- jbay

What is “the set pin on the nailer”?

- toolie


It’s the point on the pneumatic driver. If you have a nail gun, shoot it without nails in it, don’t release the trigger, and look at what is sticking out. That’s the set pin or the end of the driver…........ ............ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View jbay's profile

jbay

2050 posts in 806 days


#32 posted 01-27-2018 05:00 PM

jbay: “Who has time to go find a hammer and punch to set the nub after you clip it.”

I do – I have the time to do quality work.
My tools are organized and I don t have to “go find” anything.

- John Smith

hey – I just answered the mans question as he presented it.

- John Smith

Sounded more like a cheap shot to me.

- Rich

Seeing how I “legitimately” asked him a question why he felt that way and he dissed me,
I would tend to agree with you.

-- If anyone would like to see my Portfolio, PM me and I would be glad to send you the link.

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

452 posts in 70 days


#33 posted 01-27-2018 07:12 PM

Jbay – I apologize emphatically for letting the little things get to me so quickly.

the original poster is apparrantly new to pneumatic nailers in general and I thought
I had offered an easy entry level way to fix his immediate issue – which was how
to repair the blowout. he is working on a nice piece of furniture and I felt he needed
the less aggressive approach. and to me, it was the nippers and nail set of the same size as the brad.
then when you offered up to use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.
I guess the “fire away” is what did it – - – like a shootout at the OK Corral. BAM BAM BAM.
which, to an unskilled person that had never used that technique before, would have probably
ruined his piece. I just felt that it was the wrong advice for the situation at hand and I do take
full responsibility for my offensive responses. we both have decades of experience with pneumatic
nailers and we both have our different remedies for different issues. experience comes with time.
the original poster should not be experimenting on a nice piece of furniture at this time.
I should have chosen my words more carefully and I will do so in the future so as not to promote
thread drift or become confrontational.
I still stand by my response of the side cutters and nail set. it is what I have used for years and it works for me.

again – I am sorry for taking the cheap shots and bantering.
it takes the focus away from the main issue and I apologize to all that I may have offended.

John Smith

.

View TheTurtleCarpenter's profile

TheTurtleCarpenter

1007 posts in 973 days


#34 posted 01-27-2018 07:52 PM

I always took pliers and pulled the nail out and away from the wood and then bent the Brad from side to side to break it off ,,and 9 times out of ten it would break off below the surface. This works for 18 &23 ga brads and then you can drop some glue into the divet and press the sliver back over with a clamp or just tap it flush and sand

-- "Tying shoelaces was way harder than learning to Whistle",,,,,member MWTCA area K. Kentucky

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

2293 posts in 496 days


#35 posted 01-27-2018 08:49 PM


I always took pliers and pulled the nail out and away from the wood and then bent the Brad from side to side to break it off ,,and 9 times out of ten it would break off below the surface. This works for 18 &23 ga brads and then you can drop some glue into the divet and press the sliver back over with a clamp or just tap it flush and sand

- TheTurtleCarpenter

+1. I’ve only used this method for 23 ga, but it does break off flush or below the surface almost every time. I’ve also had some luck using needle nose pliers and rotating them so the pin wraps around the nose as it’s pulled. They do snap off quite often though.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View IantheTinker's profile

IantheTinker

136 posts in 34 days


#36 posted 01-27-2018 11:51 PM

No problem, John. Thanks for the apology, they aren’t always easy to make. John Wayne’s used to say that a man didn’t cry or apologize, but I say a proper man knows the right time to do both. I still like the Duke, he was a great guy!

-- “How you feeling, Roy?”... “a little unappreciated, Al...” - Die Hard

View jbay's profile

jbay

2050 posts in 806 days


#37 posted 01-28-2018 12:02 AM



Jbay – I apologize emphatically for letting the little things get to me so quickly.

the original poster is apparrantly new to pneumatic nailers in general and I thought
I had offered an easy entry level way to fix his immediate issue – which was how
to repair the blowout. he is working on a nice piece of furniture and I felt he needed
the less aggressive approach. and to me, it was the nippers and nail set of the same size as the brad.
then when you offered up to use the set pin on the nailer, pull the nails back and fire away.
I guess the “fire away” is what did it – - – like a shootout at the OK Corral. BAM BAM BAM.
which, to an unskilled person that had never used that technique before, would have probably
ruined his piece. I just felt that it was the wrong advice for the situation at hand and I do take
full responsibility for my offensive responses. we both have decades of experience with pneumatic
nailers and we both have our different remedies for different issues. experience comes with time.
the original poster should not be experimenting on a nice piece of furniture at this time.
I should have chosen my words more carefully and I will do so in the future so as not to promote
thread drift or become confrontational.
I still stand by my response of the side cutters and nail set. it is what I have used for years and it works for me.

again – I am sorry for taking the cheap shots and bantering.
it takes the focus away from the main issue and I apologize to all that I may have offended.

John Smith

.

- John Smith


John,
Out of one side of your mouth came a very nice apology, while out of the other side of your mouth, in the same paragraph, you pretty much blamed me for giving bad information which lead to your interjection.

1st let me say that just because he missed a brad and was asking about removal in no way tells you what his experience is with pneumatic nailers. Then you reference my bad information because he is working on a fine piece of furniture, no offense, but it’s trim on a dvd shelf. It’s up to the OP to take any information given and decide themselves if they wish to experiment. They can’t decide on a method if they don’t know about it.

2nd, lumberjocks is about sharing information. People give suggestions based on their own experiences, which the OP can take away from whatever they want.
The OP is not the only person reading the comments so information shared goes out to everyone else that reads as well. Nothing shared nothing learned. I can tell by some of the follow up comments that a lot of people never thought of that method.

There was nothing wrong with your suggestion, just as there was nothing wrong with mine, but I did not comment telling the OP, or anyone else reading, that they should not use a hammer and punch.
Also, if you knew me at all you would know that I have a dry sense of humor and that the line fire away was more tongue and cheek. I mean, really, who is going to pick up the nailer and go Bam Bam Bam to set the nail?

Anyway, no apology was necessary, I’ll take it for what it was.
Cheers

-- If anyone would like to see my Portfolio, PM me and I would be glad to send you the link.

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

2293 posts in 496 days


#38 posted 01-28-2018 01:41 AM


I mean, really, who is going to pick up the nailer and go Bam Bam Bam to set the nail?

- jbay

Apparently you never watched the Flintstones.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View IantheTinker's profile

IantheTinker

136 posts in 34 days


#39 posted 01-28-2018 01:57 AM

Well, I ended up clipping it as short as I could and then pushing it as far below the surface a I could. At the right angle you can see the glimmer of the metal, but it is not super noticeable. This was a learning project for me. I was going to take pictures of the dvd rack, but I already have it loaded up and ready to deliver to my parents. Maybe I will remember to take a photo or two after I place it in their home tomorrow. Thanks for the input everyone!

-- “How you feeling, Roy?”... “a little unappreciated, Al...” - Die Hard

View IantheTinker's profile

IantheTinker

136 posts in 34 days


#40 posted 01-28-2018 02:00 AM


I mean, really, who is going to pick up the nailer and go Bam Bam Bam to set the nail?

- jbay

Apparently you never watched the Flintstones.

- Rich

I am the type to run out of patience and then lose my temper, I have busted boards with my mallet because I got ticked off. So I could see myself losing my cool and going BAM BAM BAM! It is a character flaw I am trying to rectify.

-- “How you feeling, Roy?”... “a little unappreciated, Al...” - Die Hard

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