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View jimswoodshop's profile

Sharing shop equipment

by jimswoodshop
posted 07-24-2010 03:24 PM

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73 replies

73 replies so far

View miles125's profile


2180 posts in 3337 days

#1 posted 07-24-2010 03:37 PM

As therapy go out in your shop and set sweating glasses of ice water on all your equipment and just leave it. You’d be surprised how tough the stuff is and how it’s rather silly to worry over actually causing it any meaningful harm. Friends…now those are different.

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4279 posts in 3291 days

#2 posted 07-24-2010 03:56 PM

Ain’t gonna happen in my shop.


View tyskkvinna's profile


1310 posts in 2317 days

#3 posted 07-24-2010 04:09 PM

I know most LJ’ers are against sharing tools. It’s extremely reasonable of them to do so, as well.

Part of my job, is sharing tools. I run the machine shop at our sci/tech centre and the equipment is available to people to use. Part of my rule for using any of it is “If you wish to use my tools, you will use them as I tell you to”. you are allowed to use the tools when I am present, or when I have given you explicit permission to use a tool at any time. You do not get to jump right into all of the tools, no matter what experience you claim to have prior. Every machine has quirks, and I want to make sure you know all of them for a machine before you use them.

Granted, it’s a bit different when it’s friends coming in expecting to use your stuff. Though I do encounter an awful lot of friends who feel it’s silly that I impose the same rules on them. Rules are rules, everybody gets to suffer equally in my shop.

-- Lis - Michigan - -

View docholladay's profile


1287 posts in 2390 days

#4 posted 07-24-2010 04:10 PM

I look at it this way, you are generous to allow these friends the use of your shop. You have spent a lot of time and money in machinery and setup of the shop. I have two sons that like to come into my shop and build things from scraps. I have given them some of their own tools to work with, but they do occasionally need to use the machines and other tools. I only allow this, when I am there to supervise and I expect them to treat the tool the same way that I would. If they wish to be allowed to use the tools, then these are the rules to live by. If they aren’t willing follow those rules, then they don’t get to use the tools. I would suggest the same approach. Anyone that will not respect you enough to be careful with these “expensive” tools that you have invested in, doesn’t deserve the right to have access. It is good of you to be willing to share and help others. There is a responsibility on their part to be allowed that privilege.

-- Hey, woodworking ain't brain surgery. Just do something and keep trying till you get it. Doc

View Milo's profile


869 posts in 2650 days

#5 posted 07-24-2010 05:41 PM

Noone (I think) has mention LIABILITY in this thread yet. NOONE uses tool in my shop except, primarily for tihs very reason. Someone loses a finger, your screwed.

Sorry for the bad language.

Just plop down that Liabilty issue down in front of your friends and make a momument of it. Let no amount of “ah, we’re friends, I’d never do that to ya” sway your thinking.

It’s an easy, and very safe, “out” of letting people use your tools.

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View CharlieM1958's profile


16219 posts in 3549 days

#6 posted 07-24-2010 06:04 PM

If you want a good excuse to say “no”, Milo’s option is perfect. Other than that, the only choice I see is to continue doing what you are doing….. instruct them in the proper use and care of the tools, and grit your teeth when they mess up.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View vicrider's profile


179 posts in 2229 days

#7 posted 07-24-2010 06:20 PM

In my experience, the liability issue is top priority. I will let friends borrow screwdrivers and wrenches, but when it comes to the finger-eating machines, no way. I wouldn’t want to lose what little I have just to do someone a favor. Of course, I have been known to blow a day or two or more doing it for them.

I have found that if you address the issue up front and with explanations, real friends won’t be offended.


-- vicrider

View Kent Shepherd's profile

Kent Shepherd

2704 posts in 2617 days

#8 posted 07-24-2010 07:00 PM

In a perfect world, people would actually respect the property of others. Unfornunately we don’t live in a perfect world. I have replaced too many tools over the years that I loaned to “friends” because they either never returned them or desroyed them. I still will loan my shop or tools to a select few, but as time goes on, I am very reluctant to do so.

In my production shop, I have always had to “share” with others. Of course, they work for me. I am amazed how little most of them care about keeping up with, or taking care of my tools. I can’t buy really good hand tools there because of that.

I built my home shop to get away from that. It is nice to always be able to find what I need—when I need it.
I didn’t start out so cynical, but being abused has a way of messing with your attitude.

-- She thought I hung the moon--now she just thinks I did it wrong

View Gregn's profile


1642 posts in 2314 days

#9 posted 07-24-2010 07:08 PM

Lets see you said you have a nice shop, or was it you had a nice shop. With the exception of kids I don’t allow the use of my shop. With kids I’m teaching them something and their time is limited at that. As for friends I don’t loan out my shop. To one or two I may borrow out a tool but thats a different subject. The shop is my domain and there I rule the world. I invite who I want into my shop to visit, and who I don’t want in my shop.

-- I don't make mistakes, I have great learning lessons, Greg

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile


17454 posts in 3007 days

#10 posted 07-24-2010 07:13 PM

I have to agree with Miles125, the stuff is tough. I would take it on a case by case basis. I would accomodate “good” friends, but not those who are fair weather friends.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View miles125's profile


2180 posts in 3337 days

#11 posted 07-24-2010 07:39 PM

I can’t imagine anyone on their death bed saying “I wish i’d been more persnickety about keeping my fleeting stuff in perfect order and insisted more that my friends not screw it up”. I’m just saying….

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View TheDane's profile


4853 posts in 2994 days

#12 posted 07-24-2010 09:25 PM

NOBODY borrows my tools or uses my shop. I’ll offer to help them do the job (so I am using my own tools) or just do it for them.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Sawdust2's profile


1467 posts in 3419 days

#13 posted 07-25-2010 01:45 AM

I have a group that comes to my house. They are all experienced. They can use any tool.
I have a friend with an even better shop and when I go there I can use any tool.
Something breaks we all get in on the fix.
I have never had a power tool wear out because I let a friend use it.
I do not, as a general rule, let a power tool leave the shop.
But, my friends take care, are careful, and it is good to have someone back you up every now and then.

Works for us.


-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

View christopheralan's profile


1120 posts in 3051 days

#14 posted 07-25-2010 02:35 AM

My shop, my tools. Period. I hate to be a back-side about it, but everyone knows the deal. My shop helps me make money, and I can’t afford to be without a tool due to someone making a mistake. There is also a liability in having other in my shop. I can’t pay for their medical bills if something were to happen. My friends and neighbors all know my stance on this subject and they all respect it, due to the fact that the rule applies to everyone. No exceptions.

-- christopheralan

View BTKS's profile


1984 posts in 2795 days

#15 posted 07-25-2010 02:54 AM

Just had a buddy see my shop the other day and bring up the topic of working up some boards there. I got a real uneasy feeling and wondered how I was going to handle it if he followed up with actually bringing out some boards.
I think this particular guy will replace anything he damages but it opens the precedent of, “he used the shop, why can’t I.”
Thanks for getting me thinking.
Milo and others, thanks for bringing up LIABILITY. As much as I hate the thought of having insurance companies and lawyers affect how I decide what to do with my tools it is reality. Money talks!
Later, BTKS

-- "Man's ingenuity has outrun his intelligence" (Joseph Wood Krutch)

View juniorjock's profile


1930 posts in 3096 days

#16 posted 07-25-2010 03:03 AM

Just say “no” and give your reasons. You really don’t have to explain a lot. “No” is a powerful word. Use it. About the glass on the top of my table saw…. that’s why I keep a baseball bat in the shop…. Hell, I panic when a drop of “my” sweat hits the table. I guarantee that sweat will make something rust faster than anything.

View PurpLev's profile


8523 posts in 2979 days

#17 posted 07-25-2010 03:03 AM

I agree with Miles, Generally speaking, I won’t lent out my shop or tools, but if a friends want to use something – I’d be more than happy to get in the shop with them, show them what needs to be done and how, and let them at it. I take full responsibility of cleaning up and retuning whatever needs be, and if they volunteer to do that for me- all the better, however I do not expect it from them – this is part of my giving.

life happens, tools need maintenance and care, and so do friends.
Tools can be replaced and upgraded, Friends – now thats complicated.

sounds like you’re doing well, and feel like most people would feel in this situation. thats a good thing.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View Ger21's profile


1041 posts in 2462 days

#18 posted 07-25-2010 03:12 AM

This is why I don’t have any friends, Much easier. ;-)

-- Gerry,

View miles125's profile


2180 posts in 3337 days

#19 posted 07-25-2010 03:49 AM

I know what this discussion reminds me of now. That twitch i get in my left eye when seeing a five year old f-150 pickup without a scratch in the bed. It is what trucks are for!

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile


17454 posts in 3007 days

#20 posted 07-25-2010 03:56 AM

That is the way I feel about stuff. I’m always glad when the first scratch happens; I don’t have to worry about it anymore :-))

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View lilredweldingrod's profile


2495 posts in 2438 days

#21 posted 07-25-2010 07:28 AM

When I was in the welding business, I had to carry a 1 million dollar liability policy and a 5 Million umbrella policy and both had to subservient to the customers insurance policy. That meant they went through mine before theirs every came into play.
You want to use my tools and shop, show me the insurance policies and you can play to your hearts content. If you hurt yourself, I suggest you have enough insurance to handle your stupidity. If a tool burns up are gets broke, you just bought it for replacement price. And this is in writing, signed and notarized.
So far no one wants to buy the insurance, go to the notary, etc. so I have my shop to myself.
I have a very good friend, he is the best mechanic I have ever known. He wanted to borrow my Snap-on line wrenches. I took him to Autozone and spent 13 bucks on a set and gave them to him. Problem solved.
Same thing with loaning money. Chances are you will not get it back, so just give it to them. You aren’t mad and they don’t avoid you. I figure that if I can loan it I can afford to give it away. If I can’t afford to give it, I can’t afford to loan it.
My two cents. Rand

View edgarO's profile


68 posts in 2236 days

#22 posted 07-25-2010 07:36 AM

Back when I was a mechanic, certain techs had certain tools. we all knew how to use them correctly so we would let each other borrow tools. but if you broke the tool, you were buying a new or replacement tool.
my $.02

View Eagle1's profile


2066 posts in 2395 days

#23 posted 07-25-2010 12:19 PM

There are only 2 people that I would let them use my shop. One is my cousin, the other is my neighbor across the street. I would also be in there with them. I know both of them well enough, that if they messed up something that they would replace it. I would also let me use something that I don’t have if I needed it. So I feel if they would do that for me then I should do that for them. BUT I don’t let my kids use them at all. I have lost wrenches to many time when doing that, if I do let them use them it is at my house, not anywhere else. They have to put it back where they got it, and I check that they have done so, if not them they don’t use it again.

-- Tim, Missouri ....Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the heck happened

View CampD's profile


1428 posts in 2817 days

#24 posted 07-25-2010 01:00 PM

I have more then $.02 to say on this subject so I’ll refrain!

-- Doug...

View Howie's profile


2656 posts in 2254 days

#25 posted 07-25-2010 03:43 PM

Just put up a sign that says “I don’t loan tools or my shop due to insurance reasons” should eliminate the problem. If someone doesn’t understand,explain it to them.

-- Life is good.

View Knothead62's profile


2581 posts in 2292 days

#26 posted 07-25-2010 07:23 PM

A fellow had a hot dog cart on the corner. A friend asked if he could borrow $10. The hot dog vendor told him, ” I have an agreement with the bank. They don’t sell hot dogs and I don’t loan money.”
Also, I think the liability issue is a valid point.

View SnowyRiver's profile


51452 posts in 2811 days

#27 posted 07-25-2010 07:54 PM

I dont lend my tools at all…. stationary or hand tools. Sometimes if someone has a simple cut they need to make I will offer to do it for them, but I do all the work myself. Usually if a friend, or even a relative starts asking me if I have a certain tool, I will acknowledge it, and then immediately say, you can rent one of those at the local tool rental. If they come right out and ask me for mine, I willl say sorry, I dont borrow tools.

I always have people asking me to use my chainsaw, or expensive gas powered Stihl pole saw so I have said no lots of times.

-- Wayne - Plymouth MN

View Vern Little's profile

Vern Little

103 posts in 2868 days

#28 posted 07-25-2010 10:48 PM

If I have a friend over I will help him get started. If he is competent at using my tools he is welcome to them.
I figure I bought them once I can buy them again. It isn’t like they quit making them. I am not so cheap I can’t buy some more. I sure can’t take them with me when I die.
Someone did me a favor one time.
It would be a lonely world without ant friends.

-- Earth first, we'll drill the rest of the planets later. Vern

View b2rtch's profile


4796 posts in 2379 days

#29 posted 07-25-2010 11:03 PM

Well, I built a shop and I bought the tools so that they can be shared.
I beleive that God gave me the money and the ability to built this shop and to buy the tools, to open it to the church and some of the people who are a part of the church I attend.
I would never had spend the money I am spending just for my own use or enjoyment.
God owns it all and He let me use His shop and His tools fro me to bless Him and glorify Him by serving His church and other believers.
I certainly am not a fool and I know that some day I will bit my fingers for doing what I am doing but this isthe covenant between God and I.
Certainly not everyone will be authorized to use the shop and the tools, only those that I know and that I trust.
If someoen breaks seomehtign he will have to replace it.
About liability, certainly this is a concern but I believe that God is big enough to take care of that also .

-- Bert

View Howie's profile


2656 posts in 2254 days

#30 posted 07-26-2010 12:55 AM

Vern and B2rtch: I certainly respect your point of view and I have spent most of my life giving people stuff but in this day an age people have a tendency to sue you over anything.(case in point the guy using the tablesaw)
It just isn’t worth it to me to take the chance. If “friends” get their feelings hurt, they were not very good “friends” to begin with.
I know there are people that will take exception to this stance and that is their perogative. But that’s the way I feel.

-- Life is good.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile


17454 posts in 3007 days

#31 posted 07-26-2010 01:30 AM

And, it doesn’t have to be the friend that wants to sue. If the injury is covered by insurance, they will go after anyone they can to recover their loss, even if that person is not guilty of any negliance. I have had insurance compaines try that with me, but not about friends susing tools.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View rimfire7891's profile


123 posts in 2234 days

#32 posted 07-26-2010 03:13 AM

There is a difference between your work for a living shop and your personal shop. I only have a personal shop now. Did have a professional auto shop years ago and charged friends the going rate for jobs that came in the front door, Charged mates rates when they helped outside of working hours. People do understand the difference if you let them. I lend anything and everything (not including the wife) I have, to my friends. Sometimes it seems that I give more than I get however it always comes back more than I could ever want. I can use the neighbours skid steer to do a little landscaping work if need be. He asks me to help with the installation of a shifter on his Tremec 5 speed in his ’ 67 Chevelle. The neighbour a mile over has a Case loader tractor very useful for lifting an engine out. I fix his kitchen cupboards. he lends me his lawn mower when the engine grenaded on the wife last weekend. The new one won’t be in for a week. Needed to pickup a FJ40 a while ago, neighbour used his truck and trailer to pick it up, he drove and did more work than me loading it. He used his fuel. We use our house for the harvest party in the fall, and we are not farmers. He grain farms 5000 acres so the harvest crew is a few people. They bring most of the food and drink, but uses my wife tools in her kitchen.
My neighbour from town, when we lived there 20 years ago comes and uses my shop from time to time, usually leaves it cleaner than when he came in. Also checks on our house when we are away for a week or so and the son isn’t available for that week. He usually leaves extra wood for my use. He ives in town so it is a 20 min. drive for him to our place.
My 82 year old farmer friend needs some help once and a while, he lives an hour away, he has never once not filled my gas tank when I go see him. He gives me meat when he butcher’s an animal, I work on his odd jobs around his farm and learn something as well.

If your friends wreck something, give them some one on one instruction, you might just learn something yourself.

Do you guys who don’t lend your stuff, have any friends? Always invert,always invert, it might change your appreciation of the world.
I have always found it comes back in spades, try it, nothing (tools etc) is ever that valuable that it can’t be replaced/fixed Try replacing a good friend or neighbour.

Rant off.

Thanks jb

-- Playing with wood and metal for the last 50 years, driving and building Land Cruisers for the last 40. Experience is what you get when you don't know what you are doing.

View Brad_Nailor's profile


2537 posts in 3288 days

#33 posted 07-26-2010 03:18 AM

I will usually have no problem helping someone with a project in my shop, but I usually operate the dangerous power tools. A few of my friends….one owns cabinet shop, the other is a contractor…I trust using my stuff…but I have to be there. I would never just let anyone use my stuff and walk away. I hate to admit it but I am way too anal, and way too protective of my stuff, and my woodworking equipment is my gold! The liability thing bothers me too…everyone is a buddy till they loose a finger on your saw..and some lawyer friend gets a hold of them “so, you say there was no guard on that saw, huh?” thing you know you re getting sued…


View TVW640's profile


4 posts in 2213 days

#34 posted 07-26-2010 03:47 AM

I have a nice shop, with a nice variety of professional grade tools. I don’t make my living in my shop, and my perspective might be different if I did. I love to share my shop, and my tools. My neighbor’s sons are in scouts and I have allowed two of them to use the shop for their Eagle projects, along with an open invitation to their troop for any other scouts who want to use it. So far one has used it for his Eagle project also. I remember woodshop in high school and how much it influenced me. I hope I can have a positive woodworking influence on someone who may not otherwise have the chance. I teach them safety, eye, ear and respiratory protection. If they don’t feel comfortable using a tool, I perform the task for them. I have a SawStop industrial so I don’t get too nervous, other than kick backs, with anyone using the table saw. Most of their dads are there when we are working so it is really a group fun day.

View jusfine's profile


2404 posts in 2257 days

#35 posted 07-26-2010 03:53 AM

I will cut, thickness, plane, resaw or sand for my friends, but the key is that I do it for them.

Most are not serious woodworkers, and don’t know how to operate the tools, or aren’t interested (only need the final result), so I do not take any chances with their fingers or my tools…

-- Randy "You are judged as much by the questions you ask as the answers you give..."

View Bearpie's profile


2601 posts in 2349 days

#36 posted 07-26-2010 04:39 AM

Nobody, I mean NOBODY takes care of your tools the way you do and nobody can do a good enough job of taking care of your tools! I had 7 employees at one time and I could trust only one to do a good enough job without any supervision at all, the rest I had to baby sit or keep checking on them making sure they do it right. The one I trusted took care of my tools, the others Phfft! As long as I was around they took care but let me be gone…... I have replaced and repaired far too many tools to feel comfortable enough to loan them out any more indiscriminately and without supervision, so I just don’t. One other thing also is paramount, like a few others have said, liability!

Erwin, Jacksonville, FL

-- Erwin, Jacksonville, FL

View TheDane's profile


4853 posts in 2994 days

#37 posted 07-26-2010 01:03 PM

@rimfire7891—Yes, I do have friends. They are the people that I will help do a project, including doing it myself. I have some friends that have tools, and AFAIK, they don’t loan their stuff out, either.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Howie's profile


2656 posts in 2254 days

#38 posted 07-26-2010 01:18 PM

Dane: Well said. Same here

-- Life is good.

View DrDirt's profile


4038 posts in 3073 days

#39 posted 07-26-2010 04:58 PM

I think Topo said it already – the liability thing is crushing.
My situation is a little different, that really only one of my friends is a woodworker, so I do favors for others and don’t mind a bit. I have worked with the scouts as well but under rather close supervision.
So I agree with Rimfire, but one thing about the US health insurance companies, is that THEY will sue you even though your friend was not going to. When the hospital bill comes in for the ‘accident’ if it happened on your property, the Health insurance expects the homeowners policy to pay first.
If it is someone elses home, they will go after your policy.
So it doesn’t matter what notarized and signed in blood agreement may exist, if they are hurt and need medical help, YOU are on the hook.

You get the same for kids injuries, the insurance company reads that the kid fell, and they will call you on the phone to ask WHERE did they slip..At the shopping center, of we need to file XYZ….they then go after the property owner.

-- I don't trust trees. They're kinda shady

View b2rtch's profile


4796 posts in 2379 days

#40 posted 07-27-2010 12:02 PM

” I have some friends that have tools, and AFAIK, they don’t loan their stuff out, either.”
Personaly I would not call them friends but acquaintances.
I believe that a friend shares everything his has.

-- Bert

View jusfine's profile


2404 posts in 2257 days

#41 posted 07-27-2010 02:52 PM

In that case, Bert, I’d like to share the cost of my new DC system with you… :)

-- Randy "You are judged as much by the questions you ask as the answers you give..."

View SnowyRiver's profile


51452 posts in 2811 days

#42 posted 07-27-2010 03:11 PM

My friends respect what I have and dont ask to use it…thats why we have kept each other as friends. It works both ways though. I have mentioned to neighbors or friends that I want to do something that requires a tool that I dont have….sometimes they will say they have the tool if I need it, but I always say no, I will get one or rent it. I dont want to take advantage of them either.

-- Wayne - Plymouth MN

View miles125's profile


2180 posts in 3337 days

#43 posted 07-27-2010 03:29 PM

””Personaly I would not call them friends but acquaintances.””

Exactly. A friend is someone who will fix the frayed cord on your jigsaw before returning it in a timely manner.

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View b2rtch's profile


4796 posts in 2379 days

#44 posted 07-27-2010 03:44 PM

miles125: Amen.
A friend is a person who places his friends before himself. If not, he is not friend.
If your friends do not do as miles125 says they should do, they are not your friends either.
That’s why I believe that someone will never have more than one or two , may be three friends in his entire life.
What people in the USA call friends are in fact acquaintances, not friends.
A friend is more than a brother, he is a part of you.
I had one friend in France.
I have been in the US for 27 years and so far I never meet anyone I can call friend.
May be my expectations are just to high.

-- Bert

View TheDane's profile


4853 posts in 2994 days

#45 posted 07-27-2010 04:25 PM

Well, my neighbor is my friend … I help him with projects, and he helps me. Neither of us has ever asked the other to borrow or loan any tools or equipment … they just seem to come along to whatever the project is.

Another neighbor a quarter mile down the road is what I call an acquaintance. He is a county board politician, and the only time we ever see or hear from him is in the run-up to an election. He is everybody’s buddy until the ballots are counted.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View NathanAllen's profile


376 posts in 2475 days

#46 posted 07-27-2010 04:42 PM

My big issue is my wife lending out my time. It can be a royal pain to share the very little time I have to work on my projects with helping a friend’s husband install crown, refinish tables, sand and repair decks, and so on.

View TheDane's profile


4853 posts in 2994 days

#47 posted 07-27-2010 04:48 PM

My wife did that once … I told if she ever did it again, I would start to volunteer her to other wives in the neighborhood to help them with quilting and sewing projects!

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View SCOTSMAN's profile


5839 posts in 2916 days

#48 posted 07-27-2010 05:00 PM

Unless they are very close friends and even, then not without my pesence ,the dangers are too many.Also no one respects equipment like the generally i would say no , and never without me being present.I quite often do small cutting jobs free for neighbours but that’s it, as far as I am concerned plus thoughs you don’t really know can’t be trusted too many pocketable things sorry my 2 cents.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

View TheDane's profile


4853 posts in 2994 days

#49 posted 07-27-2010 05:02 PM

Alistair! Good to see you back in the forums!

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View b2rtch's profile


4796 posts in 2379 days

#50 posted 07-27-2010 05:04 PM

Alistair, I am glad to see that your hand is well enough that you can type again.

-- Bert

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