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Am I the only one who finds this annoying.... ?

3K views 36 replies 31 participants last post by  BLarge 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
The current mainstream hand cut dovetail method seems to use a cutting guage to establish the depth of the pins…. but this invariably leaves a horrible looking score line down the final joint.

Like this, for example, from FWW…


This is especially prominent on the big ass DT joints in bench end vices.

Maybe I'm just being snobbish, but my eyes struggle to look past the marking line to appreciate the rest of the joint.

I mean, there are zillions of ways to cut dovetails - and even if you don't know any other methods, two strokes with a smoothing plane would have it sorted….

So am I being unreasonable? Does anyone else get all emotional about this? Or do you think it enhances the look of the joint??

rant over.
 
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#4 ·
I have heard that the score line is like a signature to show everyone that the dovetail was hand cut. I guess when people see that, they are supposed to recognize that the joint was hand cut. Of course, the only people who know that are furniture designers and woodworkers, so the score line most likely means nothing to 99% of the population.

For the record, I also think it looks bad. It's like masking off trim while you are painting and then leaving the tape there forever. Or leaving pencil marks on your work. I'm with you, I think it looks bad and I don't really understand why people leave it there.
 
#5 ·
Ah yes, the scoring mark. Look at a Thomas Sheraton drawer side, you will see the same marks. Unless one intends to leave a drawer open (ouch, my knee cap!) it remains inside the case. Old masters did not care about the inside unless it was going to show, they did not even sand the case's backs. It was one less thing to do before the client paid for the item, and got it out of the shop. The old "Time = Cash" thing. Don't worry about it.
 
#6 ·
Surely, this looks better?



More like an organic piece of art - like the wood YEARNS to be that shape. Like the joint was always meant to be… adding the score line would be like ruining the mystique of the artisan revealing seeing the man behind the curtain.

Perhaps as woodwoorkers we're guilty of seeing pieces in terms of projects that bespeak the craftsman, rather than in terms of works of art that bespeak the wood??
 
#7 ·
Depends on the piece. On a tool chest a nice deep score line is going to aid construction. On a chest of carefuly crafted drawers, the line just looks off. You can of course be more gentle with your scribe and just give the barest hint of a line, you can rub that over with chalk to make it more visible to the eye (your chisels will find it just fine. This will be erased when you fit the drawer.

If it bothers you, fix it.

The dovetail in my picture is a tool-chest, which will get painted anyway…so why bother making the line not show?
 
#9 ·
I would say that if it's going to be on something like a box where it will be exposed then the mark should not be there. If it's on a drawer where the dovetails are hidden then it's up to the craftsman to decide. My mother collected and sold antiques and most of them had the mark.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com
 
#11 ·
Aside from the purpose it serves, it's a high fashion woodworking affectation that shouts, "Look at my fine hand work," instead of an artifact of production furniture manufacture when all dovetails were hand cut.
 
#12 ·
Although I understand tradition, craftsmanship, etc, they have always secretly bothered me in my work as well. It's hard for me to admit that even to myself, but I think they do bother me slightly. I got over it because pictures like that in FWW convinced me that they were supposed to be there. Chalk up another brainwashed dovertailer. I tend to leave them there, but I do cut shallower with the gauge than I used to in order to leave a fainter line (happened without me even thinking about it). Thanks for bringing me one more thing to agonize over! :)
 
#13 ·
I prefer to cut the pins and tails a little shy and plane the
long grain down to flush. This approach often obliterates
the gauge lines.

I don't do it because the lines bother me though.

On drawers, leaving the lines is common. On exterior
fine case joints I think it better if they are planed off.

For that matter, the dovetail is a rather busy, workmanlike
joint. If you want refinement in your case joinery,
investigate doweling.
 
#16 ·
I think it's an eyesore and would never leave the line like that, just to "prove a craftsman has been there".
Would you have your car freshly painted and then have fingerprints added just to "prove a craftsman has been there"?
 
#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
well we seem to be a fairly evenly dispersed bunch between the offended, the defender, and those who have better things to worry about!

It's been interesting to hear other opinions, but I still feel that for a craftsman to leave scribe lines on as testiment to the hand hewn joint is a type of narcisissim.

I guess my take on design and building is that the journey should be a selfless one; the craftsman devoting his time and craft so that the piece he's making should stand indipendant in itself. By leaving on the adages of production like scoring lines, there lies a pang of the craftsman claiming part of the glory of the piece for himself.

Fair enough, the craftsman should claim the piece for his own; but the piece shouldn't claim the craftsman.


(that being said, I wouldn't trust my opinion too far on matters of aesthetic as I rather liked the burned endgrain in the picture above!!)
 
#22 ·
I should have added three expressions that I have taken to love.

"A craftsman should be invisible." Ryan Cazair, whilst he was beating quality control into my poor little brain on the production floor of a jewelery shop.

"Leave fingerprints" a paraphrase of James Krenov while talking about the slight marks left behind by a maker of cabinetry. He hated baselines to show FYI.

"Leave fingerprints, not smudges" where I fall between the two.
 
#23 ·
A "knife line" does look better than the ones i have seen with Sharpie marks…

Marking guage cutter nice and sharp? Should leave just a barely seen line.

Someone who burn a dovetail joint with a sander, has no idea how to use a handplane to smooth out the joint.

Doesn't bother me one itty bit if there is a line like that. Shows someone took the time to mark things out, before they made the joint.

IF one planes the joint smooth, does that also mean that any layout marks will be gone?
 
#25 ·
The marking line might be considered as part of the design to give the dovetail "separation" from the rest of the drawer wall. OTOH, the pic on the OP seems strange to me, almost as if it was made with a jig and then the scribe mark was added, specially since the drawer does not seem to to be complete, the bottom part has a half dovetail missing. Whoever made that drawer made some strange choices IMO.
 
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