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3K views 37 replies 23 participants last post by  Davesfunwoodworking 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm sure this has been covered but I wanted to get a broad idea of how things are nationally. Here in NY I do Kitchens, historical renovations, some new construction, and anything else that involves creating something, however business has almost come to a standstill right now. Is this similar everywhere or a NY problem.

Part of the problem here in Upstate NY, is the taxes, mandates etc forced on small business. Between property taxes, the cost of living, and the astronomical tax rates we pay here it is very hard to do business if you are not busy 100% of the time. Here in NY I am required to pay a portion of my employees SSC, Med, Unemployment benefits, as well as the comp etc. How are the other states faring? This has been my families home for 4 generations and I'm considering packing up and moving elsewhere.

I'm interested to hear whats going on in the other states. Thanks for the discussion.
 
#2 ·
We have the same problem here in the LEFT COAST. This state is extremely anti small business. Every small business person I have talked to in the past six months has reduced employees by at least 50 percent. They just cannot afford to pay the high overhead. The jobs are becoming more sporadic and there does not seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel. Most people are flat out hunkered down and saving what they can. I am still busy but never know when things will dry up. Maybe the new Messiah being sworn in soon will save us all. LOL!!!
 
#3 ·
I lost my job back in October due to the economy . I was working at a small custom cabinet and millwork shop about 15 minutes from home for about 3 months when the well dried up….I feel your pain , but from the employees side of the coin instead . Still looking for work : ( .......Come on January 20th 2009 !!!
 
#4 ·
I'm on the LEFT COAST as well and owned and opporated a small custom woodworking shop. I just shut it down and am filing bankruptcy. I've been told by some savvy people that this problem is going to be ongoing for quite some time and a new messiah isn't going to help much. It will get worse before it gets better. Now I need to find a job. I hope it's not as difficult as it's been for Dusy. Sorry man. Keep your head up, you'll find work.
 
#5 ·
I'm on the left coast also, central valley California. Been so for over a year now I let go of 7 employees awhile back, put my tool bet back on and have just one employee to keep from killing myself physically. I would like to know when it has hit different areas, when did it first hit you?
 
#6 ·
I started noticing a decrease in customer inquiries around fall of 2007. The summer of 08 wasn't really to bad but this winter has really really been noticeable. Do you think we'll see an increase with spring and the low interest rates? I foresee many people re-financing their homes to consolidate debt which could help the country out as a whole. For we craftsman that could interpret to at least a short and possibly long term boost in business. I am praying whole heartedly. I'm just surprised its still so slow after the new year. Most years it picks up really quick after the holidays are past.
 
#8 ·
You can't afford to have employees in Oregon unless you are really doing business. I don't know what will come up when I finish the project I'm working on. I assume something will. As someone said there are still 90% of the people working. I guess I need to run down and spend some time with Dennis. Maybe we can dream up something. Carleen and I are intending to go back to Yellowstone Outfitters for the summer and fall. Hopefully they won't have to many cancelations. 6 months work beats no work and with both of us working we can get by. I been looking for work since the first of November. Never got called for an interview. I think it is my age(62) Why hire and old fart when there are 57 young guys wanting to work.
 
#9 ·
I am here in the midwest - and it really seems to be a trickle down, in that there is a wait and see approach.
And once 'everyone' is holding off purchases we all grind to a halt.
If people are worried that they might be shown the door Friday morning - they are very reluctant to Gut a kitchen in a house they could have to short sell.
So all these big projects move to the "Maybe next month/quarter/year when things settle down" pile. The upside is that as the recovery begins, there will be a lot of pent up demand for those services that will flood at once.
I am more afraid that the new Obama administration will make California and Oregon look 'pro' small business by comparison. The mandates on Social Security, Insurance, and benefits I think will be absolutely crushing. I see more operators of solid businesses with 4-5 people following Ron's example, and letting all but 1 or 2 go and taking on the work personally just to survive.
Personally I see at least 18 months before anything might be measurably better - and people loosening their purse strings again. The home refinance move and debt consolidation could work also - but the attractive rates have much stricter terms to qualify…so again 1 year plus before things really change.
 
#10 ·
The local state Unions here in NY are pushing for a millionaire tax right now. I don't understand how they can still not realize that its those same millionaires that pay most of our tax bill, and those same millionaires that own these companies that provide the high paying jobs that in turn provide me with customers. Part of the reason NYS is in such a steep financial free fall is because we lost a large number of our top tax bracket to other states and to the wall street collapse. If they push more out things are going to get so much worse…... Like I said.. I'm really considering relocating. I hear the rebuild efforts down south are still going strong and work is plentiful there. Any southerners that can share some wisdom on that?
 
#11 ·
l was from the Real Estate industry and when it slowed down so did my work load. Out of the seven that left one is now a correctional officer working for the state prison system, another is going through the academy to become a California Highway Patrolman. Two others secured jobs in the same industry (roofing) with larger companies in the commercial industry working longer hours traveling farther, however making a larger income than I could have paid them. Another is taking advantage of his GI bill to go back to school. One is the one I rehired and the other I have not kept in touch.

All of them are working, there are jobs in different fields available. They haven't increased the unemployment figures. I didn't want to leave the impression that these seven where sitting around and not able to find work.
 
#12 ·
We can only hope that Americans will see that taxing, big gov, and spending is not a way to fix things bail out are just another way to control people. I have given up hope on real change. It is very depressing these days to see the direction we are headed but maybe after 4 years (probably 8) of more tax and gov programs the "right" will wake up and get back to what makes business run better. But that would mean all would have to stop pandering and that seems like it will never happen.

Torches and Pitchforks are all politicians seem to understand anymore. Btu no one has the stomach for revolution, we are all to fat and happy. That sure is changing fast, not so fat and not so happy anymore. Maybe change is coming and we just have not started the fires yet.
 
#13 ·
I make my modest living off of rich people and they are running scared. Like who the hell else can afford a front door with 100 man hours in it anyway? This childlike resentment and punishment of the wealthy throughout this country is about to put us all in soup lines. I can't even watch the news any more for this relentless view being spewed out of supposedly educated politicians mouths.

We don't have an economic problem. We have a problem with too many citizens in grown up bodies and the maturity of a 9 year old brat.
 
#15 ·
There is great opportunity in this market right now. It's not in
custom luxury goods which depreciate in value, like woodworking.

I enjoy doing woodworking but I wouldn't recommend now
as a good time to be getting into it professionally.

I wrote a 62 page report about how to make money in a recession.
I've been distributing it online with good results. That's a plug
I guess but since I've been making money online since '99
I can say a thing or two about the topic. The problem for many
people is that their local economies aren't buying what they are
selling. To make money under such conditions you have to
sell something else or sell outside your local area - basically go
where the buyers are in some way.

If anybody wants to read it send me a message and I'll get it to you.
 
#16 ·
I'm on the center coast (midwest). I've stated in other threads that I(we) have been fortunate that the boss has aligned us with very rich people. It's worked so far, but the bad stuff has started to show up. Our current project is the only one in the que due to some "postponements". When it's done this month there is nothing else.

We have prospects for things in the future, but, you know….

Our most recent prospecting has led us overseas….mainly Dubai and Russia. If you listen to the sales pitch it sounds very lucrative…...but, as I always say, I don't beleive anything until the check clears.

I'm lucky in that I can productively use some down time …...but, only some (I'm debt free and have cash in the bank and I've positioned myself for a somewhat homesteading, almost-off-the-grid lifestyle). So far the boss hasn't failed to come up with something.

The economy has certainly got my attention.
 
#17 ·
Well, down here in Georgia, it is just about as bad as everywhere else. My sales were down 50%. People are still spending money, just not as much of it. I am fortunate that I have built a large customer base over the past 7 years and most all my business in 2008 was repeat and/or referrals. Leads are off by half and closure rates are dismal. December was my best month with a few repeat customers buying new homes. Surprisingly, January is looking good also.

I no longer watch the news. It's too depressing and I hate listening the the press capitalizing on the doom and gloom.
 
#18 ·
when america sneezes we all catch a cold. Here in the philippines its much the same story. So many filipinos live in the U.S and send money back to families here but it seems they aren,t sending as much because the lead up to xmas was dead flat for furniture sales. theres been a good number of small cabinet shops disappear here although the koreans and japanese are still spending.
 
#19 ·
I live, eat, and sleep, business. There is no "off" switch and its kinda like having a one day old baby attached to me. I wake up and think about work, I work all day and into the evening and even when I quit physically working the mental aspect just keeps going and going.

Back when all my friends went and got jobs, took home a nice salary, bought houses and TV's, and had nice cars, I lived in a one bedroom apartment with a wife and two babies, I drove a broken down jalopy and worked endlessly. When my friends went out for dinner, to the theater I stayed and worked. I worked my week-ends and gave up holidays. When I finally saved enough money to buy a house for my family I chose to buy an edgebander instead. I have sacrificed a lot to get where I am now and notice that everyone is screaming about their jobs, their mortgage they couldnt afford and the TV they bought on a program "Dont pay until
.

Having had employees where I had to match their contributions to their pensions (I dont get one) and pay twice what they pay into unemployement insurance (I dont get that either) and then pay for their workmens compansation contributions, then pay federal sales tax, provincial sales tax, income tax, property tax, business tax, corporate tax….............I'm taxed to death.

Now I hear that the feds are going to give tax breaks to those I paid taxes for. No tax break for me, for my business, just a break for those who took the week-ends off, bought boats and cottages and live in homes they couldnt afford in the first place. The same employees who left for a better job and the same employees who I piad their child support arrears are the same ones banging on my door for another shot at a job, when they walked away without so much as a thank you.

I'm pissed that the banks are being bailed out and the banks are (required by law) to pay fat compensation cheques to employees and executives. I'm pissed that governments and allthe government cronies get all the religous christian holidays but the working man doesnt yet they are the same ones who will net let the lords prayer be read aloud in a classroom. I'm pissed that they get indexed pensions and when the economy goes for a crap…...........they go on strike. This isnt a "new" relevation for me, I've been pissed for some time now, like decades.

I'm also pissed when I do a project for a contractor who says I'll pay you next week, then doesnt because he decided to pay a painter to paint his house or put in a new furnace or bought a giant plasma TV. Grrrrrr, and then to have to smile and say "no problem, pay when you get some money".

I watched the news last night and they did a segment on "how to find a job in tough times" which equated to the medical field, teaching, colleges and universities, and yes, the good old federal and provincial governments….............which BTW, are all payed for by the tax payer and if the taxpayer isnt working then how can they increase the size of already bloated bureuacracy.

I read about this recesion and often wonder….........when did end, cause I've had a frugal life all my life cause I never had money to waste. Was there a "BOOM" time because I must have missed it

If it makes anyone feel any better…..............Canadians are taxed to death. I think its almost 6 months of paying nothing but tax,before the first dollar you make, you can keep. .......and again, they want to give tax breaks to all the wrong groups. How about a governement grant for me instead of a study on how lesbian couples produce better children, perhaps I could take that grant money and teach a kid my trade instead of dumping thousands of dollars of my own hard earned money to train a kid who quits at the first misguided thought of a better job elsewhere that leads nowhere. How about a grant a tax break so that I can expand my shop ?

Sometimes I think that for Doctors and if they had a choice on who to perform surgery on, they should pick a politician because when you open them up, they have no guts, no balls, no spine, no brain and their head and a$$ are interchangable…..........................and when they dont get their own way, they decide to have another election?..............what a great idea????

I constantly remind myself that I have it pretty good. I dont fear for my life when I sleep, I have food in the fridge and a roof over my head, I dont live in the Gaza strip or a garbage dump in Guatamaula. I have friends whom I enjoy their company and family that I love and laugh with. I dont look at problems that will beat me down, I look at them as a challenge, some thing I can do, that I can conquer. I am not sad that I have to work on a Friday night, or a Sunday morning or Monday morning, quite the contrary and I have always been uncomfortable around people who do complain about having to work "overtime"............and wondered what the &%$# makes you so special?. I dont ever walk into a supplier and boost nor do I complain, I try and make them laugh, I try and help them solve their problems.

People talk about their retirement. My father has been happily retired for more then 20 years and I'm happy for him as I would have had nothing without him but I have always known that as for retirement….......mine will never come until I'm under the grass.

And to answer your question. I have work but most shops in this next of the woods are slowing down bigtime.
 
#20 ·
Hats off to you Roman. I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the passionate post. Things are slowing down but I have to nod in agreement that we do have it a lot better than many. What some would define as poor, we define as wealthy. I can pay my mortgage, and feed my family. Thats what counts in the end.
 
#22 · (Edited by Moderator)
Are you kidding me Miles? You don't think that the rich in this country have had anything to do with the economic downturn? How about all the greedy rich brokers and bankers and politicians that perpetuated one of the biggest scams in a decade , that helped plunge this country into a depression (ya I would call it that)? You really don't think that there is a economic crisis, it's just a bunch of poor people whining? Should we all stick our heads in the sand like an ostrich, and pretend that there isn't a crisis, and if there is that it's certainly not the peoples fault that have all the control over the money, just to benefit your bottom line? Maybe you should have diversified your business model to include people other than the wealthy. Count me in as a whiner..and while your at it I will be an accuser, a finger pointer, and I will judge people like that harshly. Bernie Madof should be in a jail cell right now being violated by a large inmate, not sitting in his million dollar condo.
 
#23 ·
This might start a war but i'll say it anyway just 3days to go untill the world becomes a safer place in things might change for the better for everyone with obama being president and that other prat bush is out

sorry if i offend anyone but this is my oppinion

andy aka pommy
 
#24 ·
no war intended :) I would simply like to know how the woodworking economy is doing throughout the nation in comparison to here in New York state. So far most responses have been from west or east coast.
 
#25 ·
Dear sirs
I employed 15 two weeks ago now 13. in england it i hard right now. you have my sympathey. i make what my customers want for an agreed price, lots of pepole did not do that, never mind deliver the work/ goodscheck us out at mountshill.com.
wishing you good fortune,
robin
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
i keep reading in these economic threads how the gov. is anti small business . this is not true . they are for small bus. however their idea of small bus. and our idea of it is very different . our idea is those of us that work alone and some who have 1 or 2 employees or even 7 or 8 . the gov. idea of small bus. is those that employ maybe 30 to 100 employees . to them we are just an irratant . not a small business . thats why we are not considered when they make the rules concerning business .

and by the way my business here in fl. is all but extinct . and i first saw a distinct drop off starting 2 yr. ago this month o7 was not real bad but 08 has been about dead
 
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