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Best CNC?

21K views 93 replies 16 participants last post by  oldnovice 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I am considering purchasing a Cnc router. I am looking for some thoughts on the units out there? Please advise.
 
#2 ·
Hard to suggest w/o knowing:

- budget
- desired working area / volume
- intended use / materials

Another consideration is your drawing / CAD experience-- you'll be much more comfortable if you've used CorelDRAW, Adobe Illustrator or Macromedia Freehand or SketchUp or a CAD program.

If you have a newer computer, I'd suggest trying out http://www.123dapp.com/ and see if creating thus works for you.
 
#4 ·
I think the major question is what are you intending to use it for. That will play a big factor in bed size, bit size and on and on. I have one and use it for smaller items but if i wanted to cut cabinet parts I would have to seriously upgrade to a stronger and bigger machine.
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)
There are many choices and a lot depends on what you want to do, what you can afford, and personal preferences!
One of my personal preferences was that it was made in the USA and that eliminated a lot of them. There are a lot of CNCs on eBay made in China and not that I questions their quality I do question their customer service. A number of new entries from Germany and Austria but I do not know where these are made or, again anything about customer service.

If you are starting out in CNC you waqnt/need a good support system!

Back to the selection of a CNC, as stated above, there are many choices:
Legacy (one of my finalists, very good customers service/reviews, made in USA)
Shopbot Tools (other models, have not had any occasion to use customer service as yet)
Laguna (good tools, bad customer service, check this site for comments)
Shark CNC (alos sold by Rockler, some very poor reviews, no word on customer service)
K2 CNC (good machines good reviews, no revies on customer service)
CAMaster (I see these mentioned on the CNC Zone)

You also need to decide on desk top versus floor, router versus spindle (and spindle voltage requirements), dust collection, additional software (depends on what is supplied).
There are the LJ on this site that use CNCs that will probably supply input too!

You can also check out sites like CNC Zone for a lot of very good information including other manufacturers.

Or specific CNCs like Let's Talk Shopbot
 
#6 ·
I have been following "Legacy CNC Woodworking a number of years. They have 3 axis and 5 Axis hybrids. They've been making ornamental milling machines and CNCs for over 25 years. They are not an entry hobbyist tool but they do have serious hobbyist machines through large commercial machines.

There design has an open bed so you have huge flexibility. The 5 axis hybrid does both flat and spindles They have over 100 demo videos on-line and they have many training video with code etc available for their customers. I've evaluated till I can't think straight and I keep coming back to the Legacy for quality, flexibility, customer services and upgrade paths. I'm a proud owner of an ARTY Personal. Call them and ask for John Hennen and he can give you tons of information on every aspect of the machine, software and business.
 
#7 ·
You can't go wrong with a Legacy machine, good workmanship, made in U.S.A, very good support, and proctivity help if you go into mass production. As stated before, they were one of my top two contenders.

I went with Shopbot because of the ability to "stretch" the work envelope from 48"x24" to 48"x96" when I need/want to do that.
 
#9 ·
John, are you wanting to buy a turnkey solution or build a machine. I built a Joe's CastCNC machine 4X4 rack and pinion machine with vrail and a 2.2kw chinese electrospindle. It is pretty big and takes up a good 72X72 chuck of space but I love it. If you get into a decent size machine make sure you opt for a welded steel base. Makes all the difference in the world vs a base based on unistrut or alum extrusion. Building your own if you can do it will teach you everything there is to know about your machine. You will not be dependent on anyone to source your parts. Your upgrades are only limited by you and your checkbook.

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?o=U
 
#10 ·
Henry6, I went to that site and got a virus warning from my virus scanner!

John, My Shopbot has 24" long x 48" wide x 5" high cutting envelope and a 49" wide x 72" long x 68" high and can be expanded to a cutting area 96" long with a power bar.
So I traded the length extension on the Shopbot for the additional axis on the Legacy … good decision, don't know?
 
#12 ·
Wonder if jumping onto such an old thread will work, but am curious about Old Wolf's choice and if he has any reviews?

I'm really curious about Legacy. Can anyone point to any independent reviews? Looks like a nice product at a tolerable price, but it would be nice to read a few in-depth reviews from people not associated with the company. Thanks!
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
Mike, the Legacy stuff looks to be full on industrial quality for the most part. Including their apparent sales methodology. I can find ZERO specs or prices on their site which leads me to believe that once you place an inquiry, you'll have a sales associate jumping all over you to buy. That's a huge turnoff for me. Hope I'm wrong on that.

But their stuff looks first rate from what I can tell and probably out of my price range. I'm getting close to going with Probotics for my first CNC buy.
 
#14 ·
The larger/industrial CNC companies do seem to all have more of a car sales model than a woodworking tool sales model. Perhaps that's just because the tools are about the price of a car. Yikes!

I would like to price/consider a machine with 4 axis (5ish for Legacy), medium sized table, and a water-cooled spindle. Looks like Probotix has some options that are interesting and pricing is less painful. Will have to look at these more.
 
#15 ·
Hi Mike, after researching many brands, Legacy included, I chose The CWI Professor HDX. This machine has a 24×36 working surface. This frame is cast iron, so very solid, with an aluminum table. The spindle is Italian made, suitable for 4 different collets. I found that most brands, as mentioned earlier, have the used car attitude, so push push and push. I purchased the machine from Canadian Woodworker in Calgary.

As well, my research included software, which is truly the backbone of the CNC experience. I purchased the Aspire Software from Vectric.

I was told that when you acquire a CNC, you have a long learning curve. I can now say that is true. The capability of the CNC is amazing.

Mike, if I can answer any questions, please feel free to reach out.

John (Old Wolf)
 
#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well I posted 2 years ago and now I've owned one for 2 years. I love the Legacy CNC unit. http://www.legacycncwoodworking.com/
They have many new models all based on their tried and true components, electronics and open welded steel frame and multiple options. Legacy CNC woodworking is their primary business not just another tool to sell. They have twice weekly free classes on using and creating great projects from beginner to expert plus they take questions at the end of each session. This reduces the learning curve considerably. They also have over 100 videos on line. Check legacy cnc woodworking on youtube.

I've been happy with their product support and more than once they linked up to my pc remotely and made a correction to my system. Not their fault.

I love the water cooled spindel, the A axis and the ability to tilt it so I can make tapered spindles.

They provide 2 days factory training for new owners.

I've had 0 issues with the machine in the last 24 month. To see what can be produced on this machine check out my personal site http://heritagecarving.com/ or

https://facebook.com/HeritageCarving
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well I posted 2 years ago and now I've owned one for 2 years. I love the Legacy CNC unit. They have many new models all based on their tried and true components, open welded steel frame and multiple options. Legacy CNC woodworking is their primary business not just another tool to sell. They have twice weekly free classes on using and creating great projects from beginner to expert plus they take questions at the end of each session. This reduces the learning curve considerably. They also have over 100 videos on line. Check legacy woodworking on youtube.

I've been happy with their product support and more than once they linked up to my pc remotely and made a correction to my system. Not their fault.

I love the water cooled spindel, the A axis and the ability to tilt it so I can make tapered spindles.

They provide 2 days factory training for new owners.

I've had 0 issues with the machine in the last 24 month. To see what can be produced on this machine check out my personal site http://heritagecarving.com/ or

https://facebook.com/HeritageCarving
 
#19 ·
John, the CWI Professor does look like a quality machine. I was not aware of this brand, but it looks like a good option to consider. Appreciate the feedback on learning curve and software too.

I'm a software developer and a geek so the open source software out there, Linux CNC, looks interesting, but, frankly, I'd like to have full-featured, working software that I can count on. Might be interesting to dig into Linux CNC, but Vectric seems to be the most popular CNC software. Aspire is nice!

Mario, I appreciate the quick review on Shopbot. I was aware of the company and their offerings, but it's nice to get some feedback from a user. Looks like quality machines.

Jim, thanks for the Legacy review. Legacy looks to be good quality too. Enjoyed viewing your work. The stair parts really show off the 3d capabilities of the Legacy (and your talent).

So many EXPENSIVE choices!!!! :)
 
#20 ·
The Vectric products do not replace LinuxCNC or Mach. VCarvepro will let you do your vector drawing (pseudo CAD) and the CAM (apply tool paths to the vectors and generate the gcode). You use LinuxCNC or Mach to load and process the Gcode and send signals via hardware to your controller.

Vectric - function of CAD/CAM
Mach or LinuxCNC - Postprocessor to intyerface your controller to the Gcode software

Some machines do their own post processing and you load your gcode on a sdcard or send it via usb or network
 
#21 ·
I agreed with Mario and got a Shopbot Buddy some time ago!

Is it the best?
That answer is NOT the same for everyone as each user needs to determine what is best for their needs!

As many have said in this forum, there are so many choices available that were not 10 years ago (especially for the hobyist) making the selection process even more difficult.
 
#22 · (Edited by Moderator)
So…. software.

One needs CAD (to draw), CAM (to convert CAD to G-Code) and machine-specific drivers to translate G-Code to machine-specific signals. The latter is normally included with the hardware. Some of the software is both CAD plus CAM.

Mach and LinuxCNC are examples of CAM. I believe Vectric Cut2d and Cut3d would be considered CAM too.

Any CAD program is, you guessed it, CAD. Some drawing programs can generate 2d and 3d output that can be processed by some CAM software. Sketchup, for example, can generate dxf from the Pro version so can do some of the CAD work.

Does that sounds right so far?

Looks like Vectric Aspire and ArtCAM Pro are the high-end 3d CAD+CAM tools. At $2500+ these are, shall we say, pretty serious tools.

Other tools that can handle true 3d? And rotational 3d? Looks like Legacy's CCAM4 is nice (and tied to their HW).

I'm guessing that one could use Vectric Cut3d or something like it to do the CAM function with many CAD applications, but I'm also guessing that a CAD+CAM package that is tailored for CNC would be easier to use.

So…. what are good choices for 3d (including rotational, A axis) CNC work?

Thanks!
 
#23 ·
Mike
I use free version of PTC Creo Direct Modeling Express which is a 3D CAD that program allows me to export 3D models and 2D PDF files that I can use in PartWorks 3D and PartWorks, respectively. PartWork can use PDF files directly and PartWorks 3D can use my exported models without any problems.

I can't say enough about Creo 3D modeling as it is easy and straight forward to use, while the PartWorks software packages were part of the Shopbot purchase and has served my purposes so far.

So far I have not really spent any extra to fill my CAD/CAM needs … that doesn't mean I won't upgrade in the future!
 
#24 ·
Mike
A slight clarification, Mach and LinuxCNC are examples of control software. You need that in addition to the CAD/CAM software. Cut3D is a CAM software as it has no design capabilities. Cut2D, VCarvePro and Aspire combine CAD and CAM in each package. There are many ways to generate 3D files such as Sketchup, Wings3D, Sculptris, Hexagon, Silo, Glise. In my opinion, VCarvePro is probably the best value as they have added some nice 3D functions to it.
 
#25 · (Edited by Moderator)
Vcarvepro is 2.5d not 3d. It does have some neat features. Get the demos of each and learn the limitations of each for your work and see if you really need aspire. Also there is a scaled down version of vcarvepro now that works with smaller machines. I do not believe you can do 4th axis turning with it. Again check the comparisons.

Frazil is correct about Mach and LinuxCNC being "control software". Mach did have some CAM features too in a plugin or maybe it was machmill - I never use those.

Control software may be bundled with a machine or a specific controller. Not always the case for sure.

If Mach is included with a new machine it is usually just the demo and are expected to buy your own full license of Mach to have it cut more than 500 lines of gcode. They may build the license into the machine cost. You will have your own .ini file if you have a full version.

Shapeoko dedicated sites and wikis might be good places to source free software and opensource software options. Their history is 3d printers and 3d printer guys want FREE or cheap. Ive also built a few 3D printers.
 
#26 ·
Found this thread through a Google search- sorry to jump in…

I am also looking at CNC machines- long time hobbiest, never enough time, etc… But I got interested in the Legacy machines because they use specialty bits along with the regular Cnc carving bits - am I saying that right? Kind of a different approach to Cnc that they claim can save significant time by using a larger, specialty bit for some parts of the carving, then switch to the smaller ones for detail if needed.

That seems significant to me - Jim, does that make sense? I see your posts on the Legacy site and here (just joined today)...
Thanks!
 
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