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Plumbing Stench - Running toilet - Correlation?

2K views 32 replies 15 participants last post by  Howie 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
A bit off topic here but ive got a plumbing question again for the esteemed panel of LJ's.

Lately, well for the last 2 years or so, ive been getting a stink in the basement. At first i thought it was a dead mouse or sometihng along those lines but its just never gone away entirely. Its not a full time stench. Recently ive been connecting the dots and it always seems to smell bad when the first floor toilet is left running. Sometimes that little flapper just dont wanna flap ya know and it will run for a little while. The other night it was left running for a few hours and the basement smelled somethin awful. Worse than it ever has.

Im on a septic system and recently had it pumped so im sure that the tanks are not full. The house is a 2 story with a full basement and the bathroom are relatively stacked. Now the basement 1/2 bath isnt used at all or at best extremely rarely. The toilet in there has water in it to prevent any gases seeping back and ive got the water shut off to it.

Any thoughts out there on why it smells like death sometimes?
 
#2 ·
What about the sink in the basement half bath? does the trap have water? is there a floor drain for the laundry room?

Check to see that the chain isn't too long in the toilet and getting caught under the flapper.

just a few quick thoughts.
 
#3 ·
I hope its not what we had-

My dad and I hooked up the water feed to a second-story toilet.. the drain was already run and hooked up. I have 2 septic tanks outside and that toilet was the only thing that fed into one of them. About 2 years after living there-and shortly after finishing that upstairs bathroom, we started smelling "death" by the front door.. I thought a skunk had died under the front porch (again). A few months pass and we smell that on and off.. well the March quarterly water meter read card showed up in the mail box, so I went down into the basement.. a stone, unfinished basement that has had snakes and skunks in the past, so we tend to stay out of there.

I walked down the stairs to find a 3-6" of sewage -_-

Turns out the previous owner had crushed the clay tiles to that septic tank when they put in an extension of the pool deck.. On top of that, there was a line off of that sewage line in the basement that was uncapped .. so when the line outside the house started backing up, the path of least resistance was the uncapped line in the house.

tl;dr: see if any sewage is leaking in the basement.. check for any uncapped lines where sewer gasses might be leaking
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
Im not sure if the trap has water in the sink Matt, ill have to check that. No floor drains to speak of, the laundry room is about 20' away in the basement and from what i see, its discharges through the foundation wall into the footing drain (i think, its all underground, but could very well pipe to the septic tanks)

Stretch - I might open up the clean out that is in the corner of the shop and snake it. The system was installed 10 years ago and luckily theres nothing over top of the piping route to the septic tanks, so a crushed pipe is kind of low on my concerns. I suspect its got something to do with the basement bathroom. Like OJM was talking about, the sink trap, is now my number one suspect. Im thinkin a half gal of bleach down there wouldnt hurt nothin. I havent noticed any uncapped lines in the basement but will certainly double check.

Im in the basement almost daily, as thats where the shop is and the laundry room. I hope that i dont ever have to slosh through 6" of lump fish infested waters one day.
 
#6 ·
Stef, for pete's sake, replace the innards of the running toilet. Takes 10-15 minutes, costs $10. C'mon man…make sure all the p-traps have water, as suggested. The air vents/stacks are all clear/connected and working properly would be my only other thought…but I am not a plumber. Good luck.
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
Jay - its not so much the runnign water that concerns me but the stench is causes a floor below, which im assuming is sewer gas. Even when its not running ill get an occasional stink, but when it does run it smells somethin awful. Ill definatley replace the loose flapper b/c its not really good for the ole well pump to be workin double time like that. The little chain broke about a week ago and i got it all jury rigged with some tie wire ;). I know, i know …. stop bein lazy. Ill hit the borg today.
 
#8 ·
Agree with replacing the flapper, but still need to address why the smell is coming into the basement. Does the basement have floor drains? We have one in our garage and one in our laundry room. If the floor drain has dried up, it could be allowing gases back into the house.
 
#9 ·
BE - no floor drains to speak of. There is one outside but its pretty far away from the stink. Ive got a serious hunch that its the basement bathroom sink and a dry trap. Plumbing in the house is seriously funky and i know its been messed with by the fact that it goes from copper to pvc in a bunch of areas.

Would pouring water into that sink cure a dry trap? Should i do it often? Bleach? Dissconnect and cap it off?

My turd chasing abilities are obviously lacking.
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
Like said above, check that your traps have water. I don't understand how a flappers could cause gases to leak, but if the toilet is running it was flushed and that could cause it. If you have cast iron soil pipe running horizontally, check the top of the pipe for perforations caused by rust. If you have a vacuum breakers/air admitance valves on the drain lines make sure they are working. Good luck. -Jack

Christef- Any chance the vent pipe on your roof is covered with snow?
 
#11 ·
Chirs, I'm battling the same thing. The bathroom shared between son and daughter was getting pretty stinky. Previous owners had two girls sharing the bathroom. One sink would drain slow and smell. I disconnected the trap and pulled out a cats worth of hair from the pipe going into the wall. Fast forward to today. Bathroom smells. No leaks. Smell seemed to be coming from the tub. I cleaned the trap and poured a foaming drain cleaner. Smell is all but gone. I was told methane gas can travel back up hair in the trap. Not a plumber, what do I know. I agree with cleaning the dry traps. I was told about once a month to keep water level up. There are many home made recipes on the web for cleaning pipes. Bleach is good.
 
#14 ·
Bleach not so good on a septic system. It kills the bacterias that break down the sewage in the tank. Just undo the trap under the sink to see if it's clogged/dry and if it is clean it out or just run the water after you put it back on. Depending on how dry it is in the basement or if you run a dehumidifier down there you should run the faucet every few days or weeks. I have to do the same thing in my basement full bath with the shower, toilet and sink.
 
#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
Ill bleach it, foam it, and run some water through it. Thanks for all the insight fellas. What would i do without you guys?

Edit: +1 on Ed's comment on Tony diagrams. All ya need is a pic of my ugly mug over the stink pipe. Also, maybe ill scratch the bleach, but im only talking like 1/4 gal of bleach. We'll see what the water does.
 
#17 ·
I know that smell. I have a number of historic and rental properties and have spent many hours restoring. I have ran into that problem twice.

There is on the market a poppet vent. The previous owner of my two stinking properties used the poppet vent rather than running a vent back to the main stack or outside vent. It fits either a 11/2 or 2" pipe and when you flush the toilet or run water into the sink and the drain is drawing or needs a vent, the poppet is pulled down provides a vent then should close. After a number of years the spring gets old, the "O" ring seal is worn and they just don't seal back up. As a result you get sewer gases back into the building. This poppet is certainly not to code but was used by many.

Not sure if that is you're problem or not, but I thought I would offer it for you're consideration and possible investigation.
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hey Brother, sorry to hear about this going on; never fun at all.

This may sound gross, but is a reality for all us rough and tough lumber dudes that have better half's….... If you read, well if they read, the side of the panty liner box that says their panty liner's are okay to flush and will dissolve don't believe it.

When they pumped your tank did they notice hundreds of panty liners floating at the top of the septic tank? Even if they didn't say anything to you you might want to ask. And also ask if they pumped and cleaned the smaller sections I believe which have filters in them that can get clogged. These rogue panty liners will cause a huge problem by getting passed the baffle inside your septic tank towards the top and into your leach field - not fun to pay for that to get dug up and fixed/cleaned; and a very very bad time of year for you guys up there.

Keep in mind, even with a 1000 gallon septic tank it won't take but 3 days to a week with the 3 of you flushing and showering to fill that up… and that's normal but if there's a constant influx of anything that's floating on the surface that could get sucked up into the leach field exit, and that puppy backs up then it'll continue to backup, or seep out where ever it's clogged and then through the ground in and around your basement depending on how close the tank and leach field is from your basement. If you have a clog and it can somewhat handle a flush or a quick shower a few times a day that's different than a constant water flow from a toilet running through the night. I agree that it's actually a blessing that the inside of the toilet isn't up to par and is showing a bigger problem before it get's worse. I'd ask and request from the septic company the report of what they cleaned and if they "Inspected" all and not just cleaned.

Good luck bro, I hope it's something easy and nothing like what I detailed above but if not it does sound like you might be catching it early enough to not be catastrophic.
 
#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
Gotcha, stef. Even so, there is a correlation, meaning that when the water runs, the trap is ineffective, as Tony expertly illustrated.

A couple of random thoughts.

- Does that toilet rock? If so, the wax seal will be deteriorated and could leak gas back between floors.

- Does your basement have a washer and dryer? If so, check that drain trap.

- When filling the traps, put a couple of tablespoons of vegetable oil in with it. The oil will float to the top of the water in the trap and help prevent evaporation in mostly unused drains.

- How is the drain vented? I'm thinking something was shortcutted along the lines of what Needshave posted.
 
#21 ·
+1 to the hair puller. I use that, then the Drain-O 10 minute gel, and then wash it all down with a pot of really hot water, and the pipes run like new. This was the standard procedure growing up in a house with two sisters who seemed to clog the drains on a weekly basis.
 
#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
Ah yes, from one of the awful creatures (cue evil laughing…....)

I can't imagine any woman past the age of about 13 flushing panty liners. BUT, many women assume that tampons are flushable. Is says so on the box etc etc. It is often the strings that cause major problems with septic. I won't launch into a gorilla glue style discussion about the differences between the two, but I do think I may have a leg up in the experience dept on this one.

We are on septic, well water, and have a lift toilet in the basement. Whenever I get the slightest waft of smell in the basement, I change the water filter to the main system and it's gone.

Not sure how the filter relates to water vs gas in the trap, but it solves the problem at our house instantly.

Good luck
 
#25 ·
Hmm JR - i dont think that the wife flushes those bad boys. In a previous employment she worked for the health dept. which also served as the inspectors for the installation of new septic systems. Id assume shed know better than that but ill double check with her tonight. Shes more well versed in septic systems than I am. The honey suckers (septic cleaners) didnt mention anything out of the oridinary when they pumped it out last fall.

Jay - ill definately inspect all the traps in the basement as well as the wax seal around the commode upstairs. Ive got a few extras seals that i can install if needed. Might as well replace the toilet at that point too. Its seen its better days. Great tip on the veggie oil.

Jack - nice tool there, gonna have to pick that one up, or shave the wifes head in her sleep.

needshave - ill look into how they are vented im not 100% sure to tell ya the truth. I can see the vents from the 1st and 2nd floor bath but i have no idea where the basement is vented to.

Now that im thinking about it, i havent run that sink in almost a year. I bet its bone dry. I would seriously hate to have to dig up the septic but i could do it if i had to. I seriously doubt its the case of a failure being it was installed roughly 6-7 years ago but i guess ya never know.
 
#26 ·
a couple of things to add Stef. Make sure your vent is clear. Best way is to get on the roof and get near it. If it doesn't smell bad, you know where its going. Next check what kind of vents. Make sure its nothing more than a clear pipe outside. There were some one way vents that didn't need to be extended outside that tended to malfunction from time to time.

Make that bathroom is vented.

Birds like to make nest on them, raccoons crawl in them etc.

And last, sometime pve pipe just comes apart. A separated drain in a wall will cause some issues and can be a bugger to find.
 
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