LumberJocks Woodworking Forum banner

Grizzly G0661 or Craftsman 22116

7K views 51 replies 16 participants last post by  Birks 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi, I'm trying to settle my internal debate between the Grizzly G0661 vs. Craftsman 22116.

I have been using the Ridgid R4512 and have had a few of problems with it and I'm taking it back today. I know the 4512 can be a good and I just got a bad one, but that said at this point I'm not willing to try another one to see if it gets better. The thing is once I take the 4512 back today I'm without a saw(sold my old DeWalt already) and I'm in the middle of Christmas presents, so I need to get this figured out. I know the knee jerk is to get a cabinet saw off CL, but I can't really wait an hope one pops up in the next week. Also I'd like to avoid the additional expense of running 220v line for now(I would rewire the G0661 to 110v).

Anyway can someone give me a good argument for one over the other? I would mainly be using it for furniture building tasks at a hobbyist level. I haven't found a whole lot of reviews on either. Any help is welcome!
 
#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
For those who might not know, the 22116 is the granite top saw with cabinet mounted trunnions made by Steel City/Orion and is pretty close to the same as the SC35930, and has pretty much the same guts as the former R4511, but with a better fence. It succeeded the popular 22124.
 
#3 ·
Thanks knottscott I should have explained the saws better, but I was trying to be concise and still failed somehow : )

22116:
1 3/4 HP
Granite Top and Wings
Full Cabinet w/ 4" port
Cabinet Mounted Trunnions
30" Rip Bessy clone fence
$1025 after tax, pick up at Sears.

G0661:
2HP
Cast Iron Top and Wings
Open Contractor style Cabinet with 2 1/2" shroud port
Table Mounted Trunnions
36" Rip T-Square Fence
$925 after shipping cost, ordered from Grizzly.
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
maybe steel city? they are having a sale through 12/31/12:

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pdf/USA2012fall_lowres.pdf

a couple of items like the two featured saws (choice of granite or CI), but with a 5 year guaranty. and some of them are available through HD. for snits and giggles, i contacted HD, which shows the saws on their site at higher prices. the CS rep agreed to match the sale prices. saws can be picked up at local HD to avoid shipping costs and, if purchased on HD CC, deferred billing also applies. i'm just sayin".
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
@Toolie, Yeah I actually emailed Steel City and thought that would work great. But long story short thats a price for their distributors, they don't sell to the public. So by the time it gets to you or me it's got at least $100 tacked on, plus whatever delivery is to you. So it kind of throws the budget off and makes them less competitive against these two. But thanks!
 
#8 ·
Table Automotive exterior Wood Gas Machine


I don't know much about the Craftsman, but we've had the G0661 at work for about a year now. I have been extremely impressed with it so far. The fence is smooth as silk and locks down nice and tight. From the online pics, the fence looks like it might be a little on the cheap side, but it is far from it.

We have ours running on 220V and the power output is impressive. The wood we cut is only 4/4 at the most generally, but we do cut a lot of plexi, sometimes an inch and half thick or more and it breezes through everything we've put through it. It's a solid, well built machine with next to zero vibration.

The set up was straight forward and the only problem I had was getting one of the wings true to the table. With some fiddling and patience, it's spot on. It comes with a ZCI, dado insert and riving knife as well.
 

Attachments

#10 ·
With the blade guard on, the DC is pretty good and without it, it's decent. I'ts definitely better than the Delta we had.
One thing I do want to change is the placement of the switch. It's a little too far to the right for me.
 
#11 ·
Not even a contest. Go for the 22116.
Contractor saws need to go the way of the dodo.

There only needs to be portables for the jobsite guys, hybrids which are contractor saws with improved designs, but still have table mounted trunions, and cabinet saws, the buy once, cry once saws. On that note, we need more cabinet saws that run on 110v. I can only think of two that aren't used (sawstop 1.75 HP PCS and steel city).
 
#12 ·
Have you considered replacement parts??
I just purchased a hand wheel for my Craftsman Bandsaw (the plastic one broke) ... Sears price $36.00 plus shipping. Sold the C-man bandsaw.
I have a bad on/off switch on a Craftsman belt sander … Sears Price $22.00 plus shipping. Sold in G-sale
I have purchased parts from Grizzley for about half of the Sears cost DELIVERED to my door.
Sears has raised the price of replacement parts exponentaly in recent times.
Just something you might consider. This weighed heavy on my recent purchases, Craftsman bandsaw replaced by Ricon 14"; New PC belt sander that uses standard size belts like everyone else.

For my 2 cents worth, If you don't like the Rigid, I would look really hard at the Grizzley, their customer support is outstanding.
 
#13 ·
Since you asked, My experience with Craftsman: horrible customer service. Try and get service after a two or three years when the new model comes out. They have no parts. Just my 2 cents. Grizzly service is fantastic.
 
#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
I just took a closer look at both saws; both are nice, but really there's no contest.
For what the grizzly costs, you'd be overpaying for what you get. The extra $100 the craftsman costs will get you cabinet mounted trunions (worth it by far) and a more stable saw that will hold its settings for likely a lifetime.

To throw another in the mix: the steel city 35950 is $1300 shipped from home depot. It's a true cabinet saw with 1.75 HP motor and cabinet mounted trunions. It looks very similar to the 22116 but has cast iron top and wings (I think HD has the granite version of the 35950 for the same price) and a built in mobile base. It also has a 5 year warranty.

I really want the sawstop 1.75HP cabinet saw, but due to recent events I may not have the cash to pay that much, so the steel city is my backup.

I'm on my 3rd tablesaw and will never buy another table saw that has table mounted trunions again.
 
#16 ·
@NiteWalker what has been your issue with table mounted trunnions? I appreciate the info on the steel city, but my limit is 1100. If I had 1300 I'd just buy the Grizzly 1023 and be done with it, but I've got other obligations that won't allow that.
 
#17 ·
No sweat, I suggested the SC as it's one of the few 110v cabinet saws.

The problem with table mounted trunions is the alignment can be a crap shoot. For some it's easy, for others it can be a major PITA. For me it was a PITA. On top of that, the contractor saw design just doesn't hold adjustments long term. An example is the blade tilt; you may get it to .001 blade to miter slot, but tilt the blade to 45 and that may (likely) change.

But really it's about price. With cabinet mounted trunion saws being so close to the price of contractor saws, and with easier alignments and their tendency to stay put once aligned, contractor saws just aren't a good value. I have the delta 36-980 and paid ~$400 about 4 years back. It was a good deal then, but alignments and keeping things aligned have been a PITA.
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
One thing to consider about alignment on the older style contractor saws that no longer pertains to the new hybrid style contractor saw, is that the motor used to be cantilevered off the back of the saw which put more leverage on the trunnions when tilted….especially those with connecting rods between the trunnion brackets. The G0661 has a solid cast arbor carriage between the brackets, and the motor is mounted to that assembly. The newer design is less problematic…they're still not as easy to reach for alignment as cab mounted trunnions, but it's usually a one time ordeal.
 
#19 ·
Don't know exactly what you were told on the Steel City, but the price shown in the flyer is a retail price. Dealers obviously can set their own retails, but the company I work for is an SC dealer and we retail at the flyer prices. Yes, they do not sell direct to customers, but if there is a dealer near you, it might be worth checking with them.
 
#20 ·
@JayT: The email SC sent me what not very clear so I might have misunderstood. Here is what they said

"The price you saw on our flyer is the price without the freight charge. The reason you cannot find the same price from our dealers is when they give you the quote they have included the freight charge (the freight cost of shipping from our warehouse to the dealer) in there."

So I guess my paraphrasing was inaccurate, but this is impression I got from it. A price without the delivery to dealer in it seems like pseudo wholesale price at least. I will look around for a dealer selling at those prices though. The dealer in Oklahoma is about 140 miles away though.

Thanks for the info !
 
#22 ·
What if I changed it to the Craftsman to just a straight Steel City? Would that change anybody's mind. I've kind of set the Craftsman aside, because if nothing else I think I would have problems if I ever wanted to sell it and it seems everybody dislikes they're service. Also after todays round of research I think I want a cast iron top, I do have one magswitch feather board and I do like using it.

I could get the Steel City 35950 with the cast iron from Utter Guys for $999 + $149 shipping. It would be pushing my budget out a little, but if it would really be a better saw I'd do it, because it does have a mobile base and I'd have to spend $70 on that down the road on any of these.
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
OK, SC (and every other manufacturer) does have a minimum order amount if the order is to be shipped freight free to the dealer. If you price SC product on HD or Lowes websites, they will include freight, because they only order one piece at a time, so never make the minimum threshhold. An independent dealer who has the saw you want in stock will probably be priced better. For instance, the 35950 Nitewalker listed sells at $999 for most non big box dealers, just like in the flyer.

All that said, if the closest dealer is that far away, one of your other options may be better. Good luck with your decision.

Edit: I'd always pick an enclosed base over a contractor style. The Steel City built in mobile bases are very nice-better than most aftermarket ones. Any reason you aren't considering the Grizzly 0715?
 
#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
@Toolie, Yeah I actually emailed Steel City and thought that would work great. But long story short thats a price for their distributors, they don't sell to the public. So by the time it gets to you or me it's got at least $100 tacked on, plus whatever delivery is to you. So it kind of throws the budget off and makes them less competitive against these two. But thanks!

sorry, ,splinterking, but i believe you are wrong. and not only HD is honoring the flyer prices, so is lowes:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/delta-rockwell-unisaw-34-450-a-44822/#post400440

please see post #12,and subsequent posts (my handle on that forum is toolguy1000). lowes is apparently also honoring the flyer prices, albeit in a round about way. but andrew120 in that thread states he got a 35990C for $802 delivered. sounds like a pretty good deal for a saw that only looks like a contractor saw, but is really more of a cabinet saw than a grizzly 0715p (due to the 35990's cabinet mounted trunions).

it would make sense that an independent dealer would add on delivery charges, but apparently, lowes isn't. looks like it's a near flyer price plus sales tax with free delivery. it's no skin off my nose, but i would humbly suggest you re-read post #3. based on my research, it a 35950 can be gotten for $999 plus tax from either HD or lowes (do a PU @ HD to save delivery costs or , it seems, lowes is delivering these free). in both box store situations, 6 mos. deferred billing is provided.
 
#25 · (Edited by Moderator)
@Toolie: Sorry I think I mis-stated myself earlier in the interest of being brief. If you look above you will see a quote from the email I received.

On your point, it looks like you just have to go do a some bargaining with the store? I know the don't carry this in my area I wonder if would still work? And I did find out Utter Guys does appear to be outright honoring those prices, I didn't notice that when I email Steel City and received the reply posted above.

I will look into this if I decide to go with the Steel City though. Thanks for letting me know this, I would have not had a clue by simply looking at the HD or Lowes websites as the prices listed are much higher.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top