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"Dangers" of sawdust- Overblown??

11K views 52 replies 30 participants last post by  Knothead62 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I just read a report that said (paraphrased) "The lungs are very efficient at purging themselves of dust. A coal miner breathes 1000g of coal dust into his lungs over a career. But at the time of death, only 40g will remain in his lungs"
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/lungs_dust.html

Now a coal miner is probably the most extreme example of someone that is exposed to dust. They work 40 hrs per week for 2-3 decades in such an enviroment.

It makes me wonder if the 3-4 hours per week I spend in my garage workshop should make me worried about sawdust? I mean I do have a dust collector; but housekeeping is my objective. I've always been a bit skeptical about the true dangers of sawdust to the average hobby woodworker. Makes me wonder how much worse the air in my shop is compared to ambient air. Afterall, dust and other particulates are everywhere.

Bottom line is that I have a old 3/4hp Delta DC with a 30 micron bag. I wonder how much I'd truly benefit (healthwise) if I went to the trouble and expense to upgrade to a modern system with better filtration??

My thoughts are that the difference would be negligible, but I'd love to hear other theories/facts.
 
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#2 ·
Speaking as a asthmatic I can certainly say that working without a good mask is not an option for me for more that a few minutes depending on what I am doing.

I understand that your talking about the 'average' woodworker and maybe my asthma takes me out of that category, but there have been a lot of studies that show the very small particles (the ones that don't weigh much) are the ones that get lodged inside the lungs and cause all the issues.
 
#3 ·
You also have to consider, some woods are highly toxic, not just an irritant. It can take a long while for pollutants to accumulate in your lungs, and by that time, irreversable damage could result. How long would you drive your car with bald tires? You could be passing a big rig and get a blowout. I leave it up to you to guess what the result would be.
 
#4 ·
I just took the time to read through most of that article, and while it does talk a lot about how good the lungs are a clearing dust it also goes into why dust can be so bad for the lungs and I would say is the entire point of the article.

MrRon makes an excellent point about wood toxicity , I would also add that wood dust can contain more than just the organic wood particles. Other organics such as mold as well as inorganic like silica.
 
#5 ·
To expand. I'm sure inhaling wood dust is not ideal. I just wonder if spending 3 hours in my woodworking shop is any worse than spending three hours on a dusty baseball field, or hay field, or a dirt road. Heck, when I lived in Yuma, AZ I had to change my car's air filter once a year or the car would barely idle. I figure I had to have been breathing a significant amount of dust from the ambient air. I assume outdoor dust contains molds, silica, etc.
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
I do believe there are higher concentrations of the fine stuff in woodworking than what you would experience in those other locations simply due to the nature of the tools used. Just as there are more fines generated by a table saw than by a handsaw. Certainly there would be some fines in those activities and could very greatly depending on the exact environment.

I guess for me it comes down to is do you really want to stack the woodworking dust on top of those other activities regardless if it is better/worse…
 
#7 ·
There is also the factor of concentration, I would imagine woodworking outside be 'safer' than inside because the dust can travel with the wind.

Outdoor stuff like baseball and hay fields have the advantage of a lot of air to circulate with.
 
#8 ·
I don't have much problem with sawdust from typical tools like the router, tablesaw, etc. IMHO the most dangerous sawdust is from sanding. Since it's finer it stays in the air longer, with more of a chance to get in your lungs. Except MDF dust, that's terrible no matter which tool produces it.

The smoke from tobacco products is far worse than sawdust IMHO….
 
#9 ·
Well I can say from my experience that I do feel it in my chest if I spend an afternoon in the shop, particularly if I am using my tablesaw without a dust mask on. Another point to consider is the fact that if you are cutting plywood or MDF, you are not only putting wood dust in the air, but also dried glue particles which are probably worse than the wood.
 
#10 ·
Just a thought…

I know several professional woodworkers and finish carpenters that work with wood and MDF dust all day long, then ride bicycles competitively or run marathons. All are in their 40's and 50's, and they've been working since trade school.

You guys that say you can "feel" it… Are you otherwise in shape? Do you exercise? Do you smoke?
 
#11 · (Edited by Moderator)
Good or bad studies???
Who is actually funding the studies?

It is your lungs. It you don't take care of your self, who will?

I personally don't like the idea, There are occasions where I have been working and fail to wear a mask and has to blow my nose. Not a pretty sight. I think a mask and dc does make a difference. I try to remember to wear one & run the dc and not to get lazy about it.
 
#12 ·
I have an 87 year old fellow woodworker that recently was diagnosed with COPD. He asked his doctor if the sawdust could be a cause of this. The doc told him "no, no one gets COPD from sawdust" He told him that the pollution outside (gasoline exhaust fumes etc.) is worse for your lungs than is sawdust.
 
#13 ·
There are several articles on the web that indicate a link between sawdust and nasal cancer. Google "sawdust nasal cancer". Since cancer is poorly understood in terms of causative agents, etc, I think it prudent to take reasonable steps to minimize contact with known carcinogens. Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.
FWIW
 
#14 ·
Being raised on a high desert farm back before anyone thought much about dust or pollution, I have probably digested tons of it. After I moved to Seattle, I flew back to Boise in the spring when the farmers were all working their fields. I just about gagged when the door on the plane was opened and I stepped out on the tarmac.

A few years ago some spots were discovered on my lungs during an x-ray for other things. The pulmonologist said they were most likely from organic compounds I inhaled when I was a kid on the farm. They are benign, but you never know when one of those materials will be the one your body does not tolerate! Why take unnecessary risks?
 
#15 ·
I haven't read any recent articles including the link above. The articles I have read about inhaling small particles indicasted that the larger particles were easier for the human body to clean or remove from the lungs. The finer the particles the more likely they were to remain in the lungs causing a problem. Maybe this is part of the problem that smokers have. hhhhmmmmm
 
#16 ·
There are a lot of toxic woods and weatherproof woods containing oils and resins that do not deterioriate in the weather…so there is no reason to believe that they would not survive in your lungs. Any way that I look at it I most certainly want to do everything possible to keep sawdust out of my nose, lungs and eyes. There is absolutely nothing positive that can come from it.
Have you ever noticed how much the smallest booger can restrict your breathing in your nose?
 
#18 ·
Reminds me of Pascal's argument about the existence of god… believe because of he (or she!0 does exist, you're covered and if he (or she) does not, you haven't lost anything!
Get the dust collector… you haven't lost anything!
And… you might just need it!
Ellen
 
#20 ·
I am very concerned about dust in the lungs for both long term and short term. I try to use my dust collector when ever possible and wear a mask as much as possible. Having said that, I'm also concerned about a clean shop. Dust and dirt harbor creepy critters as well as tracks into the house. A light coat of dust on the floor can cause some floors to become slippery. I've also notice a light coat of dust on mamma's new car causes these small lumps to be raised on my head. I don't think they're benign because they disappear as soon as I get done washing her car. ;-) Just my input.
 
#21 ·
Thanks for the replies. A lot of good thoughts.
I've been doing some light research on the topic, but have yet to find any hard proof that a casual woodworker faces any real threat from sawdust. I've seen some studies that "suggest" or "link" heavy exposure to pulminary issues. But I've also seen studies that "suggest" and "link" orange juice to intestinal cancer. Heck, there seems to be a study that will suggest that anything will kill you.
Dont get me wrong here. I'm not trying to say that sawdust is harmless. I'm sure under certain circumstances it can contribute to heath issues. I guess I'm just trying to gauge how far I REALLY need to take dust control. I seen several articles and/or recommendations that compel average schmucks like me to buy 17HP, 3 Phase dust collectors with .001 micron cartridge systems; and to wear military grade chem/bio gear. Anything less…......certain death. I also see a lot of people that don't necessarily 100% buy into the belief that the dust is particularly harmful, but buy high-end DCs just in case. I wonder if those people carry a difibulator around with them everywhere they go- just in case they have a heart attack. Afterall, cardiac arrest is pretty common. I also wonder if I should wear a life jacket in my bathroom…....so I won't drown in my toilet. Hey, could happen.
Seriously though, if anyone knows of a good source for info on this subject. I'd appreciate a link.
Thanks.
 
#22 · (Edited by Moderator)
Tedstor: "...To expand. I'm sure inhaling wood dust is not ideal. I just wonder if spending 3 hours in my woodworking shop is any worse than spending three hours on a dusty baseball field, or hay field, or a dirt road…."

Maybe yes, and maybe not.

As a kid playing in an old hay barn, I picked up a nice little fungal disease of the lungs called Histoplasmosis. This was in the 1950s and at that time only ~5 doctors in the World knew anything about this disease, however I was lucky enough to have one of them within 100mi. I was hospitalized for 6 weeks in isolation and not even my parents could come into my hospital room and they had to wear masks, even at that distance. At the time I was 7yr old and spent the entire month of December in hospital isolation. In total, I missed 5 1/2 months of the 2nd grade in school and had to have a tutor come to my home every day for an hour. I did not have the strength to walk across the room without losing my breath. To this day, I am 60, every time I have a chest x-ray the doctor points out the granulomas in my lungs.

All that being said, IMO, it would be wise to avoid as much organic dust as is practical in the wood shop. You never know when something like this can jump up and bite you in the ass. I run my DC on every cut on every machine, at the time. Do I always wear a dust mask,... no. Should I?... maybe. Bottom line is that there are things we can all do, on a practical basis (and I am NOT saying "anal" basis). Buy a decent DC unit and use it, be it 30-micron or 0.5-micron, just use it. Make sure your shop is well ventilated. I work with my 9ft X 16ft garage door is open and a floor fan is directed outward on one side of that door.

Bottom line is that if you really want to get anal about avoiding ALL dust, then DO NOT take up woodworking as a hobby or profession. Oh,... and don't cross the road because you might get run over.

My 1 1/2 cents worth… ;-)
 
#23 ·
Plain and simple fact:
You're gonna die. Second fact: Ya don't wanna die from rotten lungs.
I use a DC with good felted bags, a vac with good filters, and ambient air cleaned the runs whenever sawing/sanding is happenin', and masks when spraying.
Yeah, I'm a wuss. I also wear eye protection and use Peltor ear muffs.
Bill
 
#25 ·
"Buy a decent DC unit and use it, be it 30-micron or 0.5-micron, just use it. Make sure your shop is well ventilated. I work with my 9ft X 16ft garage door is open and a floor fan is directed outward on one side of that door."

Mike- Thats pretty much where I'm at. I don't go out of my way to inhale as much dust as possible, but I don't personally go to any extremes to avoid it either. I have a 3/4hp DC with a 30 micron bag. I too work out of a one car garage, keep the door open, and use two box fans to circulate air. Although its admittedly more for climate control than dust evac.
I also tend to work in my driveway on occasion. My workmate gets lots of sunshine. I have more elbow room outdoors since my garage is packed with tools, toys, and a motorcycle. I also simply enjoy working outdoors. No clean up is necessary and I suppose I get less exposure to dust (sawdust anyway). But dust control is not the main motive.

I've never had any breathing issues and never have any adverse effects from dust. I suppose thats where I get off saying/thinking that my meager DC "system" is adequate and anything bigger or more sophisticated would probably be overkill. I have all of $100 invested in dust control between the DC and two cheap box fans. I guess the point of my original question was to solicit information that might compel me to re-think my position. I've searched for information that would suggest that bass fishermen or golfers or coin collectors live longer than woodworkers (for example), but have come up empty. What "evidence" does exsist is mostly anecdotal.
 
#26 ·
Breathing any foreign substance into the lungs is never a good thing, but we can't escape it. We can only be aware of known carcinogens and try to avoid them. In Japan you will see people wearing face masks everywhere you go. I used to think it was for the purpose of not spreading germs, but I found out the real reason was to avoid breathing poluted air. Your nasal passages contain fine hairs that help prevent fine dust, mold spores and pollens from reaching the lungs, but when they get past, a reaction like sneezing alerts us that a foreign irritant has invaided. That should alert you to stop what you are doing. We cannot live in a bubble, free from pollutants.
 
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