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Requesting feedback on an idea to kickstart the economy

4K views 61 replies 19 participants last post by  wormil 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
This topic probably has more interest to the American LJs out there, though all feedback is appreciated…

I would describe myself as more apolitical as I do not consider myself aligned with any political party right now. The economy is obviously in rough shape and I am not anxious to see it get any bleaker. Rather than focus on blame, though, I would rather work on ideas on what might help get things going again. I hear much talk on how we need a new technology, but with the infrastructure already set up overseas, I don't see new manufacturing hitting the states. The new fluorescent lightbulbs, for example, went straight overseas without any real pit stop in manufacturing here.

I couldn't help but notice, when looking for a flag to hang from my porch, that I could not find a US flag actually made in the United States. From what I understand, souvenir shops in our state and federal buildings are stocked with items not made in this country. This all started a thought "If there are rules for properly disposing of a flag, why are there not rules on the manufacturing of one?" America is not going to compete price-wise with any item that we manufacturer with the existing trade agreements. Government cannot go into business itself with strictly American made products but we could make laws regarding the use and manufacture of state and federal government symbols. What if we had a list of federally protected national and state symbols (i.e. Uncle Sam, American Flag, Liberty Bell, Declaration of Independence, etc.) that followed certain laws in their creation and use. True that there would have to be certain allowances for creative expression and some things (like the Statue of Liberty that was given to us by France) would not be in the list because it is not ours to regulate.

Imagine how many jobs that would create. State flags and symbolism required to be manufactured in the state of origin and souvenirs in federal shops created in factories evenly distributed across the 50 states. The prices of these things would naturally go up and the citizens would have to consider it almost a patriotic duty to purchase these things. But wouldn't it be worth it to know that what you purchased was manufactured in this country by materials gathered and produced here? What do you folks think? Some of you have manufacturing backgrounds at adminstrative levels. Do you think this would be logical and/or feasible? I have been kicking around the thought of pushing this idea all the way up the political chain through social media to gain some national support. Do any of you see where this would not work?

David
 
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#2 ·
Hm.

I can't speak for anybody else, on this one, but … personally … I like pie.

And … as we've learned, recently … ice cream, too.

Now … the way I see it … it is not an either/or proposition.

I can have ice cream WITH pie, or-conversely-pie WITH ice cream.

Either way … I'm a Happy Boy.

Thanks for listening.
 
#3 ·
Very enlightening Neil. Now the real question…do you like American Pie? Or are you one that views the eating of pie as a multicultural experience? I suppose one would not want to limit themselves in areas involving fine dining :)
 
#4 ·
I mean …

It largely depends on where the "American" pie is made … wouldn't you think ?

Plus, as Don McLean songs go … I may have liked "Vincent" better, but I DO know ALL the words to "American Pie."

Which … hasn't helped … anything … ever.
 
#7 ·
Hi David. Needless to say I am not an America citizen. However I accept your invitation for my feedback

That same point is actually in discussion worldwide, with the exception of low cost labor, and low tax countries. Mine is no exception.

A lot of local industrialist are quite happy with some kind of protection. In your flag example, I can imagine that the only happy would be the flag makers. Other common american ones as you said, will need to pay more for the same flag made elsewhere. Even if some american people as you, would be willing to "contribute" for the sake of patriotism, IMHO, it is some sort of privatization of taxes. The price surplus of the flag can be considered as a tax, and it will only be collected by flag makers.

I am not very keen of this kind of solutions.

Respectfully,

PS : I guess the best American pie is the one home made :)
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
Okay … here's my sincere answer, and … truly, in a nutshell.

Unless the continuing rising costs of energy really skyrocket, it's still a LOT cheaper to make this kind of item offshore. That's particularly true when they can be shipped a BILLION (or a BAZILLION) units to the shipping container.

So … with domestic cost structures … I think sales would be severely impacted.

Profits would be, too, since the costs would have to be passed along-at least in large part-to the consumer.

Before EVER implementing such an idea, though, companies could do price-sensitivity testing, by changing ONLY the price, in an effort to tease out the elasticity of demand, as price goes up or down.

From there, they could likely project out the sales impact of the domestic cost AND pricing structure.

NONE of which should give ANYBODY the impression that my position on pie OR ice cream … has changed.
 
#9 ·
In Arizona there's been a law on the books for some time requiring public service vehicles all be made in USA.
No patrol cars are Toyotas or Hondas here.

The problem is, that over the years, even GM and Ford are increasingly using foreign made parts in thier "American Made" cars.

This law is almost irrelevant now, seeing that a majority of USA sold Hondas are assembled in the USA and have nearly the same ratio of "Made in USA" parts versus "Made in Japan" parts as the domestic brands.
 
#10 ·
The pie I like best is custom made, on-site. Some locations produce better pie than others, IMHO.

I'm ok with ice cream imported from out-of-town.

My wife really liked "Vincent" until I pointed out what it was about.

Regarding the original post, I think locally manufactured symbols and suveniors is much better as the basis for a business plan than for protectionist legislation.
 
#12 ·
I am reminded of a Preacher who was arrested in China for illegally ministering Christianity amongst the population.

He was given 3 years in prison for his crime, where he spent a majority of his time manufacturing Christmas lights for export to the USA. The irony is incredible, but purportedly true.
 
#13 ·
I miss the apple pie, from Julian, California.

It was a BEAUTIFUL mountain road, up to the mountain town. Famous route for the motorcycle set.

And … yeah … pie made right there, right then.

Inside me is a verrrrry fat guy, just itching to get out. Daily struggle.
 
#14 ·
Don't know where to weigh in on this one. I can see an argument for requiring that nationalistic items be made in country to keep the symbols nationalistic and that it could potentially help certain industries as there would be no overseas competition but do we wish to be that strict in the use of our national emblems. I'd have to vote no.
Ds251- my toyota's vin starts with a 1 meaning US made, another example of the irrelevance of the law as you point out.

The best pie is strawberry rhubarb with a custard base. The biggest key is the crust, best made with lard and vodka for a truly flaky crust that simply melts in your mouth.
 
#15 ·
hello David :)
fine question you bring up what do we do is a big thing since it bring so many questions
to our mind but here is two links …................be aware that the seminarlesson takes 52 minuts
and the interwiew takes about ½ hour

one is a seminar with Joseph Stiglitz
http://www.dr.dk/DR2/Danskernes+akademi/Oekonomi_Ledelse/Den_globale_oekonomiske_krise.htm

A Danish journalist made a program called Clements in amerika
and he interveiwed Joseph Stiglitz
http://www.dr.dk/DR2/Danskernes+akademi/#/29661 (possible not working )
but here is a link about the program serie in english
where you can
see the enterveiw on itunes
http://www.dr.dk/DR2/Clement+i+Amerika/index.htm

I think Stiglitz comes up with some good answers to what has to be done
and he knows something about Oekonomic and what money is …. :)

take care
Dennis
 
#16 ·
Then there's this silk tie that I wear to church. The tag says "Made in America - with foreign materials"

Where do you draw the line?
Do American flags need to not only be made in America, but also use American Fabric?
What about fabric made in the USA with thread and other raw materials from another country?
Can they be packaged in foreign made packaging materials?
Do the shipping palets need to be made with domestic woods?

Where do you draw the line?
Will this have ANY impact on our overall economy?

Welcome to the World economy.
I suggest we learn how to compete in this global arena.
 
#19 ·
Thanks for the link to the flag website Craftsman. Good to know that happy factory workers still exist :)

Dennis - thanks for the link. I got a good taste of what you have to go through with everything in English. Trust me when I say your comprehension and ability to communicate in English far exceeds mine when it comes to Danish. I will never be able to develop a cool word for jewelry in your language.

Thanks all for the input. Unfortunately, I can't see American competing in a global economy. Our origins were more autonomous. I suppose we could get to a point where our citizens could get jobs in manufacturing that would allow them to make a product but at a salary where they would not be able to buy it. Only other options I can see would be to require the same human rights we preach and environmental protection that we adhere to being involved in the products we import or mandating some items that can only be manufactured in this country.

It makes perfect sense to me to have labor laws to keep us from abusing people for the purpose of capitalism. It makes no sense to me to have these laws and then import from countries that do not have these same human rights. It makes total sense to me to set up environmental standards in manufacturing but I get confused when we then import from other countries that do not follow these standards. After all, it is one earth. Not like pollution stays in a mushroom over the particular site that doesn't follow any such policies :) I just can't see how we can compete with that nor achieve any of the goals of a better humanity and environment with these current practices. Either way, I would like to see more citizens kicking around ideas because I can guarantee that ideas for future growth are not going to come from our government. No matter who is in charge.

David
 
#20 ·
Charles - I won't give you a kick. But give me a list of people that you want to work for. I would be more than happy to give them a kick if they won't give a man with your character a shot :)
 
#21 ·
Protecting businesses from foriegn competition sounds like a good idea, but it won't work. Just imagine a law in the seventies that prevented us from buying foreign cars. Everything made in Detroit in the late seventies was an over priced joke. The Japanese made better cars, shipped them over seas, and sold them for less money. Naturally, our auto manufacturers couldn't compete. If they had been allowed a monopoly on the car market, we would be forced to buy whatever junk they made regardless of the price. Now we are building cars that are as good, for about the same price. You can buy a Chevy because it's a good car, not just to be patriotic. The human rights, environmental protections, and government regulations are driving American companies over seas already. They have to out source whatever they can to turn a profit. If you can find someone that will make a satisfactory product for half the amount that you can, you better buy it, that's just good business. You can keep paying your employees the same as before, selling an over-priced and inferior product, right up until you file bankruptcy. If you manage to trash a big enough company, the government will bail you out, otherwise you, and all of your employees, will be looking for a job.
 
#22 ·
Very true that monopolies would be bad and very few companies would have been able to develop the infrastructure for automobiles in the 70s and the big three would have killed anyone attempting to try (history actually proves this). However, I am not talking about 1 or 2 companies being responsible for manufacturing items dealing with national heritage. Competition would be allowed in the American market. Other countries already practice this. Japan and China do not fly flags in their country that were made anywhere else. I believe Germany will not import items involving their natural heritage from other countries. I do understand that regulations have made things more expensive but if the same qualifications were made for products imported, the cost ratio would be much different and it would not be as lucrative to have an overseas company. And while I hear many complaints of the "greedy" American who is growing fat on welfare or on union salaries, I do not know anyone living like that. My social circles must be smaller than most others.
 
#23 ·
Competition within America created the big three. There have been over a hundred car makers in the US. Most of them died out because people weren't buying what they were selling. Several of them merged many years ago to form Chrysler and GM, and over the years, they, as well as Ford, have swallowed up several other companies. The strongest survived and the weak ones disappeared. When there was no competition left, they got complacent. When the gas crunch an emissions laws crippled horsepower, they kept building the same big river barges they had been building since the fifties, but now with weak, pathetic motors.It took foreign competition to get them back in the game. Your argument that we should raise the price of foreign goods, to allow ours to compete on a level playing field, doesn't really make sense. We have screwed ourselves with over-regulation, we can't make up for that by screwing them, too. They'll just put such high tariffs on our goods that we won't be able to export anything. We can do a total trade embargo, but it won't work either. They can live without our cars, but we can't live without their TVs. The public outcry would be deafening. We can boost our economy by voluntarily buying American made goods. Trying to force it on people will just backfire again.
 
#24 ·
Randy, I didn't say one word about raising the price of foreign competition. I stated that we should not import goods from manufacturers that do not follow the same human right and environmental policies that we demand from the manufacturers in this country.
 
#25 ·
And, just for clarification, this topic was originally a discussion regarding products related to our national symbolism or heritage. The automobile industry, I don't believe, is a fitting comparison.
 
#26 ·
We are free to do that all by ourselves already. All we have to do is buy American. It is not our business to tell other countries how to run their own lives. Refusing to allow import of their goods, because they don't choose to subject themselves to our way of thinking, is even worse, than trying to tax them into fairness. I'm sorry I missed your point.
 
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