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I'm and idiot and need some help! or I did something stupid to my TS and need help!

4K views 70 replies 33 participants last post by  roman 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
You know there are evenings when you should just put the tools down go into the house grab a favourite cool beverage and turn on the idiot box and melt your brain even further…today was one of those evenings. I've not been out in the shop much so when I had some time this evening I wanted to make the best of it and 'GET A LOT DONE"... So I am making myself a small box; I haven't done a complete project in a while and thought a small box would be the way to boost my success rate. So I trim my edge boards to length, mitre the corners (a real simple box) and am enjoying the way my new TS is cutting so smoothly and accurately. I want to rabbet the bottom edge to put in the bottom so decide to switch to my Freud 8" dado set (bought at HD about two years ago, worked fine with my old Craftsman tablesaw) and it is a bit snug getting the first outside cutter on. I thought to myself "hoy, I'll just thread it on with the nut and carry on" as I was doing ita small voice at the back of my head was saying "Hey stupid how are you going to get it off if you have to thread it on with the nut" . I should have listened but I wanted "TO GET SOMETHING DONE"! Well the long and the short of it isi that now I have one outside cutter blade firmly stuck on my 5/8 arbor with a saw that when I measure it is about 1/32 or less (when I calm down I will measure it more accurately) of a 5/8" the TS arbor is bang on 5/8". First I need help kicking myself in the back of the head for not listening to the wee voice of reason and second I need help in figuring out a way to get the blade off. Man am I annoyed with myself!
 
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#3 ·
The heating the blade sounds like a good idea, that was going to be one of my attempts tomorrow night. I have some graphite spray that may work as well as the soap and water….I'll give that a shot as well, good ideas, thank you.
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
I feel for you my friend.
The only thing I can think of would be heat. If you are going to use a throw away torch bottle. My suggestion would be use MAPP (yellow can) gas as it burns hooter than (blue can ) propane. The faster you can heat the blade the better chance you stand of not heating the arbor as well.
In the HVAC industry we you some stuff that resembles toothpaste for a lack of a long explanation. If you squeeze the tube and put a thick coat only around the arbor if will stop the heat from transfering. I'm not sure were you are located but if you look up any trane, Bryant, or Carrier dealer up and find a HVAC supply house that is where you would buy the stuff. Just make sure you clean up any sawdust first and have a fire extinquisher( sp?) You know what I mean. It's too late in the day to look it up, oh well??

let us know what happens

I have the new model Delta TS, and they gave me a new 8" Dado blade with the saw. the first time I used it, it was a tight fit. I used some emory cloth in the blade holes prior to getting them to fit, where I could still remove the blades from the arbor.
 
#5 ·
The paste Taigert mentions is also available at good welding supply dealers, maybe eves TSC. We allways calld it heat sink paste. Before that, use a couple jam nust and a wrench to lock the arbor, and use graphite and gloves to try to twist it off. Let us know.

steve
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
I question the heat idea. Think about it: If you heat up (and expand) the blade you are actually making the hole smaller. Any heat transferred to the arbor will make it larger.

Cooling it would seem to be the solution. You may have to remove the top of the saw and remove the arbor/blade/bearing assembly. At least now you can work on it safely.

I'd try a few hours in the freezer-the arbor, not myself-and see if that does it.

The arbor shaft itself is pretty soft stuff, so try to refrain from pounding on the threaded end unless you spin the nut on first and then use a maple block between it and the hammer. The block you can simply cut on your tablesa….oops, sorry.

Kindly,

Lee
 
#7 ·
The "body" of the saw blade should be made of soft steel. What i would do is to drill 2 holes about say 5/16 or 3/8 diameter in the actual saw blade on each side of the blades arbor - be shure not to hit the actual saw arbor when drilling. I would then get a piece of steel say 1/2 inch thick or perhaps a piece of small channel iron ahd drill the same bolt pattern as you did in the blade. I would then place the piece of steel against the saws arbor and use 2 bolts and hex nuts as a "puller" to "jack" the blade back off off the saws arbor - you might want to thread the saws arbor nut onto the arbor just until it is "flush" wi the the end of the arbor to insure you dont damage the 1st thread of the arbor during the initial pulling of the blade.
 
#8 ·
I just bought a new set of Osluns about a week ago. They too fit extremely tight. I threaded them on and threaded them off. After doing this a couple of times they seem to loosen up some. I would rather they fit snug than loose, too much chance of wobble I would think.
I'm with Lee, don't think I want heat on the shaft of my saw. I too have experience with heating metals and there is too much chance for distortion if you apply too much in the wrong place.
 
#9 ·
Instead of heating the blade, try using some dry ice on the arbor. If you can shrink it by a thousandth or so, your blade should come off fairly easily.

When you get it off, a machinest should be able to enlarge the arbor hole slightly to allow correct assembly. You shouldn't need to force it together.
 
#12 ·
I agree heat would be best. I do have a few concerns however. What type of saw is this? Is it belt drive or direct drive? Be very careful with the heat and don't overheat it. Remember you will also be heating the arbor and the arbor has bearings around it. The bearings will have grease in them and grease is flammable. I would think that the grease would have get really hot before combustion would occur but the plastic/rubber seals on the side of the bearing will melt as well.
Another option would be to use a bar type puller. But it would involve drilling 2 holes in the blade. In the holes you can thread 2 bolts with washers and nuts on the back side, the other end of the bolt goes through the puller.
 
#14 ·
My gut response was to heat the blade, because hey, metal expands right? Then Lee's post gave me pause. Metal expands when heated, in all directions. Unfortunately this will make the hole for the arbor smaller. Here's a really crappy drawing illustrating that:
Nose Eye Jaw Gesture Eyelash


Then again, if it was my TS, I'd probably try heating it anyways, because that's just the way my brain works. Don't keep us in suspense, let us know what you tried!
 

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#15 ·
This heat/cold question is interesting. We need a real science guy to settle this. :)

My gut reaction was the same as Lee's. Heat expands and cold contracts. If the metal parts contract, in theory the hole becomes bigger and the arbor smaller, and the cutter slips right off.

Now you guys voting for heat may be right, but that seems to go against the basic laws of physics as I understand them.
 
#16 ·
A little research, and I may have answered my own question.

Heating is often used to free a frozen nut from a bolt. But it is not because the heat itself separates the parts. Rather, it is the heating and subsequent cooling off (expansion followed by contraction) that breaks the corrosion causing the pieces to stick together.

In this case, corrosion is not the issue… we're simply talking friction. It would seem, then, that heating is not really appropriate in this particular situation.
 
#17 ·
Short a Science Guy, I put a 7 1/4" steel saw blade in a vise with wood faces and set my Bosch heat gun right next to it and let it blast for about 5 minutes. The blade was too hot to touch. (There's a reason the last four letters of "touch" are what they are.)

Prior to heat, the arbor hole measured .630. After heat, .629.

I don't think this is a definitive test. The differential is too small to be really convincing. But it does take a step toward a working theory that heat would not be the solution to removing the blade.

Kindly,

Lee
 
#18 ·
You heat steel wagon tires to slip them over wood wheels because the steel grows larger. heat it all the way to the outside diameter to make this happen. the entire blade will grow. You heat flywheel starter rings to slip them over a flywheel because the ring grows when heated. I vote for the heat and will stand by it until it is tried to prove differently. I believer cr1 worked metals most of his life. Surely he brought something away from there. Heat a line from the center to the outer edge. only need to heat it in one area so you don't need to turn the blade.
 
#19 ·
I would NOT heat the arbor of the TS that is supposed to stay at a set diameter and straight - you are running a risk of malforming your arbor and setting your TS out of spec.

just bang the blade out - sure it'll ruin the blade, but better the replaceable blade than an arbor issue
 
#20 ·
Any machinist will tell you from experience that a hole will get larger with heat. They do this all the time for tight fitting joints. Make them a slight interference fit, heat the outer 'thing', cool the inner 'thing', slip them together and 'Bob's your uncle'. :)
 
#21 ·
I like Grandpa's post. But I think heating a ring is quite different from heating a plate.

That said, heating a line from the center to the edge makes sense-that would make the hole larger as just those molecules in question got randier.

This is fascinatin'.

Kindly,

Lee
 
#23 ·
From 1976 thru 2003 I made my living working with Metal, welding, brazing, doing all kinds of nasty things with heat and metals.
Grampa stole the words out of my mouth with the wagon wheels and fkywheels, there are also times you need to heat a hole to seal say a access cover. You heat the hole to expand it, place the cold door in the hole, and cool the hole. I challenge you to remove that door, it will be such a tight fit.
I wouldn't use a heat gun due to the fact that it would take to long to heat the blade. You need to hit the blade, and blade only with intense heat. I'm talking fast. Thats why I suggested MAPP gas, if you dont hit the blade with fast You will be allowing the heat to transfer into the arbor.
My concern with using any kind of puller would be damaging the threads on the arbor. Same as thrying to thread it off.
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
I was a Tool & Die Maker for 37 years.
When you heat a bushing, the O.D. gets larger and the I.D. grows larger also.
If we wanted a pin in the bushing with a tight fit, we would heat the bushing, put the pin in dry ice or liquid nitrogen and then push in the pin. The pin was .002 larger than the hole (significant)
When you heat a part it grows outward the same as scaling a drawing.
Try this:
Create a cad drawing
Draw a circular part with a hole in the center.
Scale the part 25% larger. (Like heating the part)
The hole gets larger also.
 
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