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3K views 27 replies 11 participants last post by  ScottRoyle 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hello, need help with a reoccurring problem I'm having with my Laguna Tools LT18 3000 Series Bandsaw.

I've recently replaced both tires on my 18", 8 year old band saw, the bottom drive tire more than once. Each time I replaced the tire I tried using a different adhesive and meticulously set up the blade to track in the center of each tire using the specific # of tension for the blade prior to setting up the upper and lower guides. I cleaned each wheel carefully with a wire brush and acetone after each failure. Tried using both a 1" re-saw blade as well as a 3/8" blade, am getting the same result. Also tried both urethane and rubber tires, each time it took a tremendous effort to wrap the tire around the wheel (soaked in hot water prior to wrestling it on). With that much pressure around the wheel, seems like cement wouldn't even be needed!

My last effort I used what appears to be a quality rubber tire replacement from Woodworkers' Tool Works. They recommended an industrial high tack rubber cement, Fastik to bond the tire to the wheel which I did. I let the glue cure for a week while I was on vacation before I turned the saw back on. Again set the alignment up carefully and ran the saw for 5 minutes without issue before I pushed any wood into the blade. I re-sawed one 5-1/2" tall board and started on a second one when the new tire blew up. I've also tried using Barge Cement with no success.

I've got a fair amount of experience with setting up band saws and other equipment to run well, this has got me stumped. What would make a new tire with adhesive come off? The machine does not vibrate and the wheel bearings feel pretty tight with little play. Any help would be appreciated!
 
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#2 ·
Are your hearing any slap or ticking before the tire goes kaplooey? The glue is failing and quickly. Heat is the enemy of glue. Since you've tried 2 different glues, it would seem like something is putting extreme pressure on the tire causing heat build up quickly; and that would have to be the blade, I would think.
 
#3 ·
So you are saying that the tire basically is thrown off of the wheel?
What happens to the blade?
Is it only the drive wheel that fails?
Is the tire cut, then thrown or does it just come off in one piece?

One thing that could be happening is blade tension is too low, those factory built in gauges are usually incorrect and read low (very low).

Best bet is to tension the blade by ear/deflection measurement/tension gauge.

Another thing to look at is what the wheels do when you have it all set up and ready for a cut. Spin the wheel by hand and see if the blade starts to wander or if something is contacting the tire.
 
#6 ·
I had to retire a Laguna bandsaw.It took several attempts to get the tires to bond with the wheel I think it was epoxy.
But the saw ran like poop it threw the wheels way out of balance.
Think I went thru three sets of tires plus glue.Very expensive lesson.
So I gave up and brought the wheels over to Dailey saw service in south gate.
There I met a friendly old timer that told me nicely in aloud voice you just can't put tires on and Hope for the best.
They did a fine job of crowning and Turing the tires to run perfect with the center if the wheel.
The saw ran better then new.

Aj
 
#7 ·
Are your hearing any slap or ticking before the tire goes kaplooey? The glue is failing and quickly. Heat is the enemy of glue. Since you ve tried 2 different glues, it would seem like something is putting extreme pressure on the tire causing heat build up quickly; and that would have to be the blade, I would think.

- Rick M.
Not hearing anything before the tire hits the fan. Only one board through the saw before it shreds wouldn't be too much heat I would think.
 
#8 ·
So you are saying that the tire basically is thrown off of the wheel?
What happens to the blade?
Is it only the drive wheel that fails?
Is the tire cut, then thrown or does it just come off in one piece?

One thing that could be happening is blade tension is too low, those factory built in gauges are usually incorrect and read low (very low).

Best bet is to tension the blade by ear/deflection measurement/tension gauge.

Another thing to look at is what the wheels do when you have it all set up and ready for a cut. Spin the wheel by hand and see if the blade starts to wander or if something is contacting the tire.

- splintergroup
Could be tension, will check. By the gauge on the saw, I dialed up 1/2" tension for the 3/8" blade, a little over 1" tension for the 1" blade thinking a little more = better than not enough….
 
#9 ·
So you are saying that the tire basically is thrown off of the wheel?
What happens to the blade?
Is it only the drive wheel that fails?
Is the tire cut, then thrown or does it just come off in one piece?

One thing that could be happening is blade tension is too low, those factory built in gauges are usually incorrect and read low (very low).

Best bet is to tension the blade by ear/deflection measurement/tension gauge.

Another thing to look at is what the wheels do when you have it all set up and ready for a cut. Spin the wheel by hand and see if the blade starts to wander or if something is contacting the tire.

- splintergroup
Also, the tires were more-or-less shredded into relatively small pieces, not much left.
 
#10 ·
I had to retire a Laguna bandsaw.It took several attempts to get the tires to bond with the wheel I think it was epoxy.
But the saw ran like poop it threw the wheels way out of balance.
Think I went thru three sets of tires plus glue.Very expensive lesson.
So I gave up and brought the wheels over to Dailey saw service in south gate.
There I met a friendly old timer that told me nicely in aloud voice you just can t put tires on and Hope for the best.
They did a fine job of crowning and Turing the tires to run perfect with the center if the wheel.
The saw ran better then new.

Aj

- Aj2
Thanks AJ, do you mind if I ask what did the cost of the crowning/turning cost? Was it tough to take the wheels off of the band saw?
 
#11 ·
I had to retire a Laguna bandsaw.It took several attempts to get the tires to bond with the wheel I think it was epoxy.
But the saw ran like poop it threw the wheels way out of balance.
Think I went thru three sets of tires plus glue.Very expensive lesson.
So I gave up and brought the wheels over to Dailey saw service in south gate.
There I met a friendly old timer that told me nicely in aloud voice you just can t put tires on and Hope for the best.
They did a fine job of crowning and Turing the tires to run perfect with the center if the wheel.
The saw ran better then new.

Aj

- Aj2

Thanks AJ, do you mind if I ask what did the cost of the crowning/turning cost? Was it tough to take the wheels off of the band saw?

- ScottRoyle
Taking the wheels off isn't that hard.
I remember Dailey saw offered two different tire options one was Vulcanizing or rubber glue on.I chose the rubber.
You'll have to call them for a quote.I only remember 125 but that might have been per wheel.Its been too long.
Good luck.
http://dailysawservice.com/

Aj
 
#14 ·
Thanks AJ, do you mind if I ask what did the cost of the crowning/turning cost? Was it tough to take the wheels off of the band saw?
- ScottRoyle

When you put the new tires on… did you crown them?!?

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix
Did not crown the tires, there is a slight rise in the middle of each wheel on the saw, no evidence of needing to crown the tire in the owners manual. By crowning the tire, what do you mean?

Thanks for your help!
 
#18 ·
personally I do not think it is tires at all ….. look for other problems with saw …... ie: bearings ,guides ,all moving parts

- GR8HUNTER
Thanks, I checked after the first board that I put through the machine, everything SEEMED to be working well. The Laguna ceramic guides were not pinching but were close to the blade, the thrust guide was close to the back of the blade, not touching, neither wheel wobbles…. Bearings was one of my first thoughts though. Am I missing anything else to check??
 
#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
I don't like the idea of using any adhesives to secure a tire. When I bought the carter urethane tires they made no mention of using any adhesives and that's because they rely on a very tight friction fit, and the friction fit gets compounded when you tension down your blade. Question - whenyou take the tire off next time or when it fails on you again, run your fingers around the lips of the flywheels and feel for any burrs, also feel for burrs in the center of the wheels since they're slightly crowned. This could cause your shredding effect.
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
If you try to troubleshoot the entire bandsaw at once there are too many variables so you have to start at the first symptom and move outward logically. The problem could end up being something like bearings or tension or whatever but start at the beginning. The tires are not a problem, they are a symptom (unless you are buying raggedy used tires and not telling us). The tires are a symptom, what connects to the tires-2 things: glue and blade. So one or both of those things are either the problem or the next symptom. If the tires are coming loose then the glue is failing. So either you are using the wrong glue or using it incorrectly. If the glue is not failing and the blade is the only other thing in contact with the tire then you need to troubleshoot the blade. So the blade is generating too much heat/friction or is twisting and cutting into the tire. If the blade is fine then the friction is from another source like wheel wobble. That could be caused by bearings but if they have deteriorated enough to destroy a tire in minutes then you would hear them grinding. Are the nuts tight that hold the wheels in place? Are they assembled correctly? Did the bandsaw run fine before you changed the tires? If yes, then you need to focus on everything you touched/changed. Might be a good idea to take it apart and reassemble.
 
#21 ·
I'm confused by your post. You are saying the tire is coming off the wheel, but you also say the tire is "shredding"; two different things. A tire that is glued to the wheel shouldn't come off. A tire that is shredding, meaning it is coming apart can be caused by too much tension and/or improper tracking. Are you sure the wheels are running co-planer?
 
#22 ·
Flywheels don't have to be 100% co-planar to work perfectly (being close is helpful), and as I mentioned before, tires do not require glue. You mentioned how difficult it is to get them on in the first place (heating/stretching/soaking), so knowing that, it's highly unlikely they'll ever slip or walk over the lip once properly installed (the co-efficient of friction here is very high). Only the flywheel and blade touch the tire so either you have a burr somewhere, or maybe you're using a blade with a skip tooth where each tooth rakes a different way and the one that's raked inward towards the tire is little by little slicing a tiny kerf in the tire indicating the blade might be too far back from center. That tiny kerf along with the high tension is a recipe for disaster in a short period of time. Your Laguna has a site window and a brake so fire up the saw and watch the blade tracking. Once you hear/see anything out of the ordinary, hit the brake immediately and evaluate all moving parts.
 
#23 ·
I got an email back from Laguna after talking to customer service. I'm pasting it in below. Seems very odd that they would have me cut the tire prior to putting it on, then using a strap to adhere it to the wheel. Does this appear to be sound advise???

"Hello here are some directions for bandsaw tire install:

The following is step by step instructions for tire installations on all bandsaws. Please call customer service at 800-332-4094 with any further questions. You will need the tire, glue and hardener, small mixing dish and a nylon hold down strap (ratchet style or equivalent). Laguna Tools supplies the tire, glue and hardener. 1. Remove old tire from the cast iron wheel. There is a light glue line between the cast iron and rubber. Use a flat head screwdriver to pry the rubber up. 2. Using lacquer thinner or equivalent, clean all old glue off of the cast iron wheel. Let it dry completely. Cut one end of the new tire at a 45' angle. Lightly sand the side that will be glued to the rim and clean 3. Apply a thin and even coat around the cast iron wheel. The curing time on the glue is minimal and the tire will need to be placed on the wheel quickly. When the end of the tire meets the 45' first cut, cut this end to match. 5. After the tire is set in place, wrap the nylon hold down strap around the outside of the tire and tighten it down. This creates an even amount of pressure around the wheel. Let the tire set for at least 8 hours. This will allow the glue to dry completely."
 
#25 ·
personally I do not think it is tires at all ….. look for other problems with saw …... ie: bearings ,guides ,all moving parts

- GR8HUNTER
That's what I'm thinking as well.
ScottRoyle, does the bandsaw come with old style thrust bearings?
could it be something as simple as the thrust bearings set too far back and therefore (during a cut)the blade goes passed the center of the wheel far enough so the teeth would cut into the tire?
 
#26 ·
That s what I m thinking as well.
ScottRoyle, does the bandsaw come with old style thrust bearings?
could it be something as simple as the thrust bearings set too far back and therefore (during a cut)the blade goes passed the center of the wheel far enough so the teeth would cut into the tire?

- distrbd
[/QUOTE]

yes if tire is being shredded the teeth of blade are defiantly making contact with tire …...I hardly think it is a glue/tire issue .....good luck to you
 
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