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$5,000....for a stationary box.

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10K views 72 replies 46 participants last post by  russv 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
While perusing Etsy, a shop for handmade items, I came across =tags&includes[]=titlefor]this little listing a "Correspondence Box", a fairly nice, handmade wood stationary box….for $5,000.

And I thought asking $395 for a mission clock was bad (ones I make and sell).

 
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#4 ·
I guess the builder didn't really want to sell it. I don't want to sell a lot of things, but for 5k take it. LOL. I never asked for anything over 800 for my nicest box with marquetry and the whole nine yards. After advertising it to death and the price getting down to 450, it still never sold. If he sells this box I definitely want his secret. For now I'll offer him 50 bucks, otherwise I'll make one….....possibly better. LOL
 
#8 ·
Pricing is always an interesting issue. The biggest issue for people to overcome when selling is the mistake of selling out of your own pocket. I know what I'd be willing to spend for a box (if I didn't make it) and so any box over that amount I'll probably never see the value in. But just because I wouldn't spend that much doesn't mean someone else won't.

Buyers can and do make emotional decisions to purchase every day. We tend to see price in terms of materials/labor/markup. Your customer may see it in terms of the wood/design/features/details. Other customers may only make a decision on how pretty something is. Don't believe me? Why do paintings have wildly different values? Can't just be time and materials…

Would you spend $200k for a car? Not me but people do all the time. A milion for a house? Not me ever, but people do every day.

Even my customers buy for different reasons and many pay big premiums for things you would scoff at. You just have to know your customer. And even more important, you always need to be looking for the customers who are willing to pay a premium for what you do. Do you think Nakashima and Maloof saw the world a little differently?

Just remember that every day someone's buying. If price was the only thing that made a difference they would all buy at walmart and we could just go fishing.
 
#9 ·
this box isn't worth 5000 bucks…i don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out…i checked this post…he also wants 100 buck for shipping…...that another rip….i just mailed a custom jewelry box that was weight wise probably double his box…and it was 40 bucks…and that included insurance…..bit it comes to this…its his asking price and there me be someone who will pay that…..is it really worth that…...ive read the post and all that hes done…nothing more then what i and many other woodworkers do with our boxes…..so it doesn't matter…..if he gets it…someone spent a lot of money for a box they could have had a number of skilled wood workers here at this site make him for much less.
 
#10 ·
without pointing fingers , a previous post metioned the details and he would prob get the asking price…i can see from the projects hes posted over the last 500 some days quilify him to know of this projects worth…..i dont think so…but hey..its just a box and this mess doesnt really matter…..if this guy gets 5000 bucks…..then that says somewhere is this messed up economy is someone who can affort to spend a lot of money on something not worth it..that is why were in this mess…inflated prices…..paying to high a price for something not worth it…....a house that is really worth 120,000 selling for double or triple that…...
 
#11 ·
I went to his website too. He does really nice work overall, but looking at this 3000.00 box, he should clean up the pencil marks and on his commissioning page, he shouldn't show finish already applied over a bunch of pencil marks, plus the end grain of the board on the commissioning page is all "faceted" in some odd shape, apparently rounded over very quickly. Once again, looks good, more power to him if he can get that price, but he is outright lying to his customers about the time involved because he doesn't take any time on details, more like measure it, cut it, glue it, finish it. I would just hate for people to get turned away from buying handmade because they think this is the price they have to pay for something that is not top quality.

 
#12 ·
Holy smokes! I have to quit hanging my head about asking $300.
As to the scribed line on the doves - some guys think it's a way to reference the fact that it emphasizes the handcut nature of their work, so I can't fault that as just mere laziness. But Mr. Five-Grand - good luck with that…
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
i came across another custom piece on esty….it was a nice dresser, but right above the top drawer on the left and right were two plugs…weather they were for screws i don't know…but they were END GRAIN PLUGS…very easy to see and no mistaken about it…he was asking 3000.00 for this piece which prob wasn't out of the range to much…but i wrote to him and mentioned that if he was going to make custom pieces and at 3000 bucks..he shouldn't be using end grain plugs…its the small details that show the professionalism of a piece..and to me makes a statement of the overall quaility…..he wrote me back and told me i wasn't seeing what i thought i was…...im sorry but i had to laugh at that….ive been doing this long enough to know details like that….at first i didn't respond…it just wasn't worth the time…but being me…..i had to write him back and tell him..i know what I'm looking at….those are end grain plugs…and i encouraged him to take council from others who do know what there doing…..believe me i know I'm no maloof…but i do know enough…maybe he will take notice..maybe not…but it all goes back to wanting the woodworking trade to be represented by honest folks…there are levels of quaility…and the small details show at what level your dealing with…to me…a piece selling for 3000.00 should not have end grain plugs…..thats just the way i am….so it comes down to places like e bay and esty give place for craftsman to sell there wares…i just hope that those who sell items at a lower level don't impact the wood workers who work at a higher level…they deserve a higher dollar amount for higher quaility…...these fly by night - appearing out of the wood work in the middle of the night guys might mare those who have put years in to show it does make a diffrence…there is a difference in Joe blows work and hard working wood workers who have earned the right to ask for higher prices…
 
#15 ·
All this talk has gotten me excited I'm going to list my $ 28,000 saw horses with gold paint and sequins as soon as I get it built but I will offer a discount for a pair only $ 55,000. Please tell your rich crazy friends.
How about you guys what's on your list. We can start our own version of Hammacher Schlemmer.
 
#16 ·
Asking and getting are very different. I would sure like to know how many he has sold
 
#17 ·
Just my two cents - but someone will pay the price for the box. We have a hoity toity arts festival every year in Fort Worth and people pay those prices and more. They may think a little longer on it right now in this economy, but they'll pay it.

As for the lines on the dovetails-- I'm with Doug - I don't like them - but some folks leave the scribe marks as a sign that the box is hand made.

I also don't see how the box could have taken 400 hours - but who knows - maybe it did. Long and short - if he can get the price good for him.
 
#18 ·
400 hours? 10 weeks of full time hours doing nothing but this one box? 2.5 months? BS. Maybe it took him 10 weeks, but I seriously doubt he was doing nothing else but working on this box. I've seen what talented wood workers can do here, and frankly I'm much more impressed by their work than this guys box, and I know it doesn't take them 400 hours of solid work to do these. Also, if you're that talented to be charging that exorbitant price, it shouldn't take you nearly that long to build something like that.
 
#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
It's ok Grizzman, you can point at me :) I can handle it :)

For what it is worth, Clark Kellog (who is not me, in case you thought that was the case) has had his furniture in Fine Woodworking's design series book. It was for this particular piece: http://kelloggfurniture.com/wp/gallery/10-small-boxes-huddled-together-for-warmth/

I encourage you guys to poke around his site and see what type of stuff he makes, and how much time actually goes into it. If you are interested, you can see a wide range of similar type of craftsmen from some of the various woodworking schools. I believe this particular gentleman went to the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship.

Just look at any of the work by some of the Alumni at College of the Redwoods, or Inside Passage, or any of the other fine craft schools across the world

http://www.crfinefurniture.com/
http://www.insidepassage.ca/alumni.htm

Most of these schools take woodworking to a whole new level. It isn't about 'finishing the project'. It is about perfecting it. And there are people out there who will pay for this. They want the unique piece that these types of craftsmen make. It is similar to the art world. The typical household has a print of a nice picture. A wealthy art connoisseur has the original. Except for most studio craftsmen, they will not make this same piece again as they typically aren't interested in reproducing it. Instead, other woodworkers mimic the piece and sell them for less

Though, I doubt many of us would say that Sam Maloof or James Krenov were ever overcharging for their pieces :)

ian
 
#22 ·
I don't know about this fellow, however if his track record supports him, he has to charge progressive pricing to support his past sales. His name alone might be the main sale. Sounds like he can afford to spend 400 hours on one box.
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
That last bamboo box took me less then 12 hours. If this box was solid ebony it still wouldn't be worth 5k, or 500 for that matter. I think there should be a challenge. Make a box that is similar, any material because wood is wood for the most part, and see how long it takes. In my opinion he is lying to his clients as well as steeling from them. It's not right no matter how you look at it. I can guarentee you that I can make that box, with hand cut dovetails, a tighter fit between the drawers, etc in less then 40 hours. It is crazy to say that because you went to School X or had a role in Fine woodworking magazine that for some magical reason your crappy box is worth far more then 85% of the world would charge to make the exact same box. This isn't art. It's a box. Dennis Zongkers most recent box is art in every aspect of the word. I bet he isn't asking 5k for it either. If this is art I'm Michaelangelo and people owe me millions
I'm surprised his little trays aren't worth 1200 bucks. LOL
 
#24 ·
This post and all the comments brings up an interesting question. How does everyone calculate the amount of time it takes to complete a project? Do you only count the time that you are in your shop building the project, or do you count all the time it takes to complete the whole project, like the following:

- Design time
- Time it takes to drive to and from your wood supplier
- Time to pick out your lumber
- Time to apply your finish
- Wait time in between coats of finish

It seems to me, that if you were a pro, you would calculate your "build" time by summing up all the time you spent designing and working a project (maybe not including the wait time between coats of finish). I think that calculating your build time, this way, would help you get a better estimate on how long it takes to complete a project and help you calculate a bid for a job.

Lastly, I'm not trying to question this box maker's hours or his asking price. If he sells it for that price, more power to him. I'm just curious how everyone calculates their "build time".

Thanks.
 
#25 ·
This reminds me of a car salesman friend of mine. I walked up to him one day and askif there were any $500.00 cars on the lot. He said, "yep, but we want $1,000.00 a piece for them.

russv
 
#26 ·
5k may be a bit steep, but this box has details for days. It's interesting that the ones complaining about this have either no projects posted or none with intricate detail, especially on this scale.

A perfect handcut dovetail is not an easy thing to come by, especially given the number of them in this box. And those super fine half laps…..

I suggest making a copy and posting it here before ********************ting on this guys asking price or craftsmanship.

And I'm feeling really cheeky so I'll go ahead and say that I think that in order to post to this site you should have to maintain a project status….no potshotting allowed on work…..put up or shut up….

JC
 
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