Jewellery Box - Miter Joint Glue Failure

A spline, a small biscuit put in each face. Ryobi used to make a biscuit tool that used biscuits smaller than #30 They were intended for picture frames.

I’ve seem them around but not a lot of places. maybe Sears.

Found it

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Strange, I’ve had a few small miters that I could not spline, but they held up very well.
What glue are you using?

I normally use either miter keys or hidden splines cut on the router table.

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

Try Titebond III glue – it makes really strong bonding even for end grains. Do your light hand force test after 24 hrs. By the way, from the pic of the joints, there doesn’t seem to be much glue residue on them. End grains need lots of glue.

-- The time I enjoy wasting is not time wasted

Hey woodworm;

Chuck is right, this joint looks glue starved.

If you are clamping this, it’s possible you’re tightening it too much, and squeezing out all the glue.

Hey Karson;

You did me a great service.

I was wondering where to get these mini biscuits.

There are time when these little guys are the perfect answer!

I might just buy the joiner too while I’m at it, just in case mine breaks.

Thanks;

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

I used white glue, very cheap, surely not Titebond.
I went to the nearest ACE Hardware store recently, saw one last bottle of Titebond II on the shelve.I just passed by since I still have half a gallon of white glue. I should have purchaced and used Titebond glue.

-- masrol, kuala lumpur, MY.

Tite Bond is the answer to almost all questions. And I always put glue on my miters, give it 3-4 minutes, then put another coat of glue because the end grains soak up the glue.

-- Adrian ..... The 11th Commandment...."Thou Shalt Not Buy A Wobble Dado"

On a joint like that I will typically “prime” the joint using thinned titebond. Brush it on and let it dry. Once dry, brush on another coat. If it soaks in, repeat the process until it does not soak in. Once it is sealed, then use the full strength glue. A biscuit, spline, or key of some sort does go a long way though.

Tim

Thanking you all for the tips and suggestions.
Work safe.

-- masrol, kuala lumpur, MY.

All good info…..end grain is a biatch, you really have to prime it like everyone says….and try not to clamp the glue out of the joint like Lee said…I know I am guilty of over squeezing clamps! I read somewhere that you should only tighten a clamp as tight as you can make it with your opposite hand. So if your right handed make your last turns with your left hand…I do this and it seems to help a little. And for miters I like to use a ratcheting band clamp..especially in your case where you don’t have allot of flat edges to get good clamp placement.

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

Thanks Brad,
Yes I think I over tightened the clamps.

-- masrol, kuala lumpur, MY.

I use the same technique as tpastore. I’ve had great results using that method.

-- www.woodshopdude.com

Sounds like you’ve had some cheap glue on the shelf for a long time.
Cheap glue is not always the best buy.
Glue goes off after a while, starting from when you first open the container.
I agree with the priming advice above – I use tape to hold the mitres together – if you need a lot of pressure your doing something wrong.

hey thanks for sharing this post…it is why i love LJ’s…woodworkers helping each other…great knowledge shared here…

-- Matt, Napa, CA...fun is beautiful...just trying to have some fun...

Great comments here already. First thing that stuck me is that the joint looks to not have even been glued. Where’d it go? Then you mention having half a gallon left. Eek, with the shelf life of glue you may just be past it’s prime. I am a fan of the smaller bottles. Yes, it is a bit more expensive that way but I usually use it before it goes bad. Or in the case that it hangs around too long I am not tempted to hang onto it since it is a smaller volume.

To those posting about sealer coats or multiple coats of glue, have you tested these joints to failure? Sounds kind of like hide glue techniques, but I hadn’t seen this done with titebond.

-- Doug, woodworking in Alabama

I’ve had the Sears small biscuit tool for a few years, it works well , the only place I’ve found for the bisucits is at Sears. This tool is too small to use for other projests so it is sort of dedicated to light use.

-- Paul, La Center, Washington

I bought the original Ryobi mini biscuit joiner way too many years ago ! Then I couldn’t find the biscuits anywhere until I noticed in a Sears flyer what appeared to be my Ryobi only with Sears coloring instead and sure enough I found the biscuits there as well…lucky me , I thought that I had an obsolete tool in my arsenal with no biscuits to be had . I also bought the “family size” gallon of glue ONCE…Never again : ) At least it was Titebond II and I was able to share it with my buddies before it got too old . I appreciate all of the knowledge shared on the glue up of miter joints here on this post . : )

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

Thanks to all for views and knowledge sharing on this post.
Take care and work safe.

-- masrol, kuala lumpur, MY.

When I glue up miter sides of boxes, I do as has been suggested and ‘prime’ the end grain, let it dry, then glue again before assembly. I don’t normally even use clamps – I had been using clear packing tape but it becomes a pain to remove. So now I use blue masking tape… you can stretch it enough so it applies sufficient pressure to the joint. I also just got some large rubber bands that look like they will work very nicely; not sure if I’ll use them alone or with the tape.

I place all sides in their appropriate position, insides down, against a straight edge (table saw fence works great) then run tape the length of the sides, pulling the tape as tight as I can. Make sure you rub the tape down well so it sticks. Turn the whole assembly over, apply glue to the end grain edges of each piece. Wait for glue to dry then apply more. Fold the box together (oh yeah, don’t forget to insert the bottom DAMHIKT!) and tape the one corner that is left. Measure diagonals to ensure the box is square and let it set for at least 12 hours.

Using the procedure above, I haven’t had a joint fail yet.

Hope this helps.

JimC

Thats unfortunate!

Thanks for the post

Callum

-- For wood working podcasts with a twist check out http://thetimberkid.com/

I have been using rubber bands for as long as I can remember for making small boxes and have never had any come apart. I think this prevents over tightening.

-- Ron, Twain Harte, Ca. Portable on site Sawmill Service http://westcoastlands.net/Sawmill.html http://westcoastlands.net/SawBucks2/phpBB3 http://www.portablesawmill.biz/concrete/

there is a miter adhesive on the market now that is similar to super glue…you can purchase a separate primer but it expands a bit to come out of the joint for a tougher final sand…for small joints I use a #0 biscuit and glue that void with titebond iii and use the miter glue for the inside miter surface…you can hand clamp it for about 60 seconds and it will hold. The con is that you have to do one miter at a time and little open time. Have used it on several cab doors and found no problems yet. I bought the Mitre Bond (the actual name) at Liberty Hardwoods in KC. I like the idea using the rubber bands…jc

-- JC Davis ~ Kansas City ~ "Bring me that board stretcher"

Thanks Gootch for the tips and info.
I may try miter adhessive next time.

-- masrol, kuala lumpur, MY.

Jim crockett has the exact answer your looking for. This is the only way. We use 3M v-fold tape. I think its number 237. Dont forget squeeze out is cleaned up easily with a simple wipe from a wet rag. Too much is better than too little when your talkin glue. And you can get cheap glue bottles that help with bead control. with regular titebond 2 this is all we use unless it’s melamine or exterior.

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