LumberJocks

Woodworkers Just Gotta Be Bad People Sometimes....

  • Advertise with us
Blog entry by poopiekat posted 10-17-2010 03:44 PM 1790 reads 1 time favorited 15 comments Add to Favorites Watch

As I reminisce over projects, jobs, and situations I’ve endured over the decades, there has often been a lot of sleepless nights I’ve endured. There are just too many mean people out there, and it’s actually naive to think that a common identity as woodworking brothers and sisters suggests any kind of implicit harmony among us.
I was well acquainted with hands-on woodworking by the time I entered ‘Practical Arts’ program at my junior high. My projects often got sabotaged by a few screwed up individuals who resented those of us with skills better than their own. Come to think of it, I entered first grade already able to read at grade-3 level, and able to do arithmatic quite well.

So… I sometimes got the crap beat out of me by the known troglodytes of the class. Just for being smarter! Anyway….I entered the workforce at age 18, in a unionized production cabinet shop where the old men would thwart any attempts by us young bucks to excel, in workmanship or productivity. It was frustrating, the old guys got the easiest jobs, and they’d walk off and disappear for an hour at a time, congregating in the men’s room to smoke. If we dared to enter to pee, they’d block our way. They too, would remove the cartridge fuses from our Unisaws and other disruptive crap, and actually the verbal crap was even worse. Heck, I even knew some of these old guys from outside, I was astounded by what a bunch of jerks they were when I had to work next to them.

THEN… I went into an apprenticeship at a architectural-millwork sort of place that did custom commercial work for high-end retail. WOW…I quickly learned what professional snobbery was all about!!! Us trainees were just dirt in their eyes. We were chronically abused verbally by our peers, blamed for everything that went wrong, and put on project details that were way above our level of training, without support!! When it came down to singling out a few like-minded souls to commiserate with, I found out that anything you said in confidence would get back to the person you were talking about. So, I could trust nobody in that Gulag of bad people. It was during this time that I did develop my belief in self,
building my skills and knowledge base, regardless of the behavior of others towards me. I learned to block it out, and bank the skills quietly as I suffered along. Later gigs in custom shops were a bit better, as I walked in and did the kind of work I’d always wanted to do, but I was different…I was never abusive to trainees, never humiliated the lesser-skilled, and I would often stop what I was doing and took the time to mentor the trainees.

My point is this: If you see bad behavior among Lumberjocks, it is perhaps more clearly an accurate reflection of what life is like for woodworkers in the real world. Whenever the subject is brought forward about bad behavior in the forums, well…it is no different than what you’d encounter in REAL LIFE. I’d say, the comments about the bad people here come from people who have never done time in the trenches. You’re lucky if you’ve never had to endure this time misspent in your professional career.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!



15 comments so far

View MsDebbieP's profile

MsDebbieP

18615 posts in 2883 days


#1 posted 10-17-2010 04:22 PM

I agree that humans are a crazy mix of personalities but using that as justification for disrespectful behaviour or to excuse disrespectful behaviour by others just lowers our standards as human beings.

In the end, regardless of what others do, our own actions tell the world what we think of ourselves, and what we think of others. I, personally, strive to be the best person that I can be and the best community member that I can be. My apologies to anyone and everyone for times when I have not lived up to that goal.

And on that note, I’m off to have a glorious day!

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (https://www.facebook.com/DebbiePribeleENJOConsultant)

View webwood's profile

webwood

619 posts in 1973 days


#2 posted 10-17-2010 04:31 PM

try a sports thread sometime – everything from cursing to death threats – welcome to the cyber age where courtesy and humanatarianism don’t exist

-- -erik & christy-

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3710 posts in 2457 days


#3 posted 10-17-2010 04:51 PM

Okay, thanks for the thoughtful replies.
Debbie, you are right on the mark, about peoples’ behavior, however I did not compose this blog as a means of rationalizing, or justifying bad behavior. Mostly the point I was trying to make is that the dialog and behavior in Lumberjocks does indeed mirror what my lifetime experience in woodworking around other people has observed. For better or worse, I suppose. As an experiment If we assembled a workshop of say 30 Lumberjocks at random, after a month there would be a few friendships found, and a few people who’d love to throttle one another!
Other than hand-picking the participants in Lumberjocks, or technologically obliterating the animated or contentious posts, we as human beings represent ourselves as whatever our own life experiences, accomplishments and failings, nurturing and other parameters that define us. I’d prefer the openness of unregulated discussion to the prospect of muted, filtered, or censored discussion that a few members stated their preference for. The diversity of opinion that I encounter here, the highminded and profane, humorous and offensive, the rainbow of people here is what makes being a member of Lumberjocks such a good experience.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View Dick, & Barb Cain's profile

Dick, & Barb Cain

8693 posts in 3022 days


#4 posted 10-17-2010 05:13 PM

It’s not only woodworkers that have problems like that.
I supervised a small crew of mechanics in a heavy equipment repair shop.
I had one experienced mechanic that wouldn’t give advice to a younger one that was just
beginning. He would just standby, & snicker at him. I had to set that guy straight, because we weren’t in competition, we were there to accomplish something, & get things done.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

View Abbott's profile

Abbott

2570 posts in 2026 days


#5 posted 10-17-2010 06:26 PM

In the end, regardless of what others do, our own actions tell the world what we think of ourselves, and what we think of others. I, personally, strive to be the best person that I can be and the best community member that I can be.

(this is not aimed at you Debbie, your post and Katman’s just got me to honestly post what I am thinking)

WARNING: My thoughts are not politically correct and may offend the overly sensitive, please do not read any further.

Me too! And I think I am one heck of a good guy with a great sense of humor and I have a long history of being generous and kind to those around me. If you knew me personally you would know this and you would know who to call when you had a problem that you could use a hand with. However some other folks don’t seem to see it that way and they base their incomplete opinion formed on their “take” of what’s-what over the Internet.

I think that is a very incomplete source which is mainly fueled by one’s own feelings of what they think they know instead of facts…and it is most often formed without even slowing down long enough to “ask why?” ...Folks just “tell” you what they think you should be doing becuase that is what they think and feel about what they think they know. One’s own thoughts or opinions hold no value to their righteousness. ~shrug~

I get a good laugh sometimes when I read the naive call “we are woodworkers which makes us all brothers”.

I say bullshitte…we are woodworkers and those who play forum politics are brothers and they treat everyone else disrespectfully with their self-righteousness. I am capable of doing my own work as well as choosing my own friends. I do not require everyone who is a member of a forum to have their belief system forced upon me without my consent. I am an adult and I am capable of making my own decisions and they are often courteous decisions, sometimes they are just honest and not politically correct…whether you want to claim you are my “brother” or not. I choose my own.

Good post Katman.

-- Ohh mann...pancakes and boobies...I'll bet that's what Heaven is like! ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣

View Roger Clark aka Rex's profile

Roger Clark aka Rex

6940 posts in 2157 days


#6 posted 10-17-2010 06:45 PM

I agree with MsDebbieP’s post 100%, but as you point out that would be an ideal world,not real life.
I think back as a Journeymen we encountered situations and distasteful behavior that we swore we would never engage upon later. I think that is a notion is that you can make the world a better place, only trouble there are many too marchers to a multitude of different drums. I think most of us way back in our youth made a pact with ourselves that when we grew up we were not going to engage in methods we experienced as “juniors”, but my have I bit my tongue having the same issues and comments my folks had with me. :-)
Although this is a “woodworking” site, the scope of woodworking is truly phenomenal and it is very likely that some LJs consider their own personal part of woodworking only to be relevant. The only thing common to all projects is WOOD, not type of project, method of construction etc..
I have seen LJs focus on one or two products types, improving skills with each one, some LJs have a limited commercial product line and some have a go at anything; all have their own merit.
But hold on a minute, then we have LJs like yourself who have settled into a very specialized area – Restoration, which few appreciate or understand, resulting in only a small amount of interest.
Yes it takes all sorts of LJs to make this site rewarding and interesting, but insulting behavior and offensive posts have no purpose or place in any LJs projects.

-- Roger-R, Republic of Texas. "Always look on the Bright Side of Life" - An eyeball to eyeball confrontation with a blind person is as complete waste of Time.

View Abbott's profile

Abbott

2570 posts in 2026 days


#7 posted 10-17-2010 06:55 PM

Roger you help make my point. When I first ran into you on this website I thought your attacks on who I considered to be a remarkable young lady were incredibly viscous and uncalled for. I figured you for a “troll” type personality. When I made a few replies you were deeply offended and thought that I was a real bastard. I would also like to point out that I had no idea of your medical condition at the time and you were very offended by some of my posts. We both reacted to what we thought we knew based on what we gleaned from the Internet.

Now months later we have an entirely different relationship based on what we “know” rather then what we thought we knew :)

Anyway, I hope things are well for you today and that you may find some relief and time in your shop. I don’t need to wish you happiness as I know that if you make it into your shop your mind does not dwell on negative things.

Best regards,

Abbott

-- Ohh mann...pancakes and boobies...I'll bet that's what Heaven is like! ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣

View Roger Clark aka Rex's profile

Roger Clark aka Rex

6940 posts in 2157 days


#8 posted 10-17-2010 07:58 PM

Hey Abbott,
Nice to hear from you, hope the hangover isn’t too bad:-)
Remarkable isn’t it – 2 dumbasses get smart and shock the world, lol and discovered that we had a lot in common and could be friends. I wish some others would try it because as you know I regard any time spent on arguments is the biggest waste of time going.
Yeah, the shop is my little “world”, but even so, one can get lonely and have the need to mix with others, to me that’s where LJs excels.

You are such a nice guy that I have added you to my Christmas list, but unfortunately I can’t afford gifts this year …. maybe next? :-)
Enjoy the repartee.

-- Roger-R, Republic of Texas. "Always look on the Bright Side of Life" - An eyeball to eyeball confrontation with a blind person is as complete waste of Time.

View Abbott's profile

Abbott

2570 posts in 2026 days


#9 posted 10-17-2010 08:06 PM

Yeah, I was also going to send out Christmas presents as well…but instead I have decided just to hate everyone…equally of course…as I wouldn’t want to be a bigot or something. Now, I think I will go kill a couple of cats and use them for carving models after I get them to stiffen up into the proper posses…of course I may have one’s head mounted for the wall in my den. I would prefer mounting Senorita Makita in my den but that may be illegal ~shrug~

-- Ohh mann...pancakes and boobies...I'll bet that's what Heaven is like! ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣

View Roger Clark aka Rex's profile

Roger Clark aka Rex

6940 posts in 2157 days


#10 posted 10-17-2010 08:24 PM

Hey Abbott:
Are you going to post them as a project? I bet it would be popular :-)
Some guy once proudly showed me his trophy wall in the den, I just stood there speechless. Then he asked me what I thought of the trophy – so I told him——- Geez that bugger must have been running fast when it hit that wall. :-)
If you do mount one on your wall, may I suggest that to make it more interesting, you have it coughing up a hair ball – like a yo-yo.
I still say an Argument Clinic would do well here.

-- Roger-R, Republic of Texas. "Always look on the Bright Side of Life" - An eyeball to eyeball confrontation with a blind person is as complete waste of Time.

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3710 posts in 2457 days


#11 posted 10-17-2010 08:54 PM

Ahh, two people I have utmost admiration for, glad you both took the time to respond! And Roger, I hope your well-deserved vacation was everything you’d hoped it would be!
Now, let’s see….hypothetically, if we were woodworkers, 30 of us stranded 1300 meters below the earth in a copper mine for 69 days, hmmm…would we emerge as friends, or would we be sending the bodies of the most offensive up first?? Heh….well, we ARE sort of a microcosm in this forum…If Roger was there, he’d be the one pouring oil on troubled waters, as he always has. I’ll bet he is second-oldest among his siblings! The Peacemaker. And Abbott would assume the role of ‘serve and protect’, while keeping his own beliefs intact. Heyy.. this could go on….what would the various LJ members be like after 69 days in a mine shaft? Heyyy, just keep it nice…

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View sras's profile

sras

3911 posts in 1852 days


#12 posted 10-17-2010 09:46 PM

Hey Poopiekat, this is an interesting post with some excellent points – educational for me. After reading this, it helps me realize that I have had little exposure to the personalities you describe. Woodworking is a hobby for me and LJ’s is the first time I have engaged in an online forum with any sort of effort. I suspect that there are several of the hobby woodworkers here that are just not used to the environment you describe. LJ’s may be too tame for some, but I like it here.
I have followed a few of the flare-ups that happen here and there is no way I would comment – just not my style. I find myself reading the comments and behind the emotion there often is a point that others are just not getting – they are too wrapped up in the emotion or rough comments. It seems like the trouble shows up when someone suggests, asks, demands, implores or otherwise tries to influence (or control) the words or thoughts of others. Heck even suggesting that one style of communication is better can cause it.
Some of us like to get into it and mix it up – like I said it is not me. I usually wish the discussions were tamer but Abbott just cracks me up sometimes!
Thanks for the post…

-- Steve - Impatience is Expensive

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3710 posts in 2457 days


#13 posted 10-17-2010 09:56 PM

Thanks, sras! You are remembered for your timely suggestion that we watermark our photos, lest they get stolen. This was back in the plagiarism/piracy thread a while ago. Actually, this Lumberjocks site is usually a lot more civil compared to the average real-world woodworking shop. I’m glad that you understood the analogy, hope more comments come in about that! We just cannot all tread the center of the road without a few getting offended, or just plain get their shorts in a knot!!

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View sras's profile

sras

3911 posts in 1852 days


#14 posted 10-17-2010 10:09 PM

Hey – you remembered! I just saw a post where someone had done a nice job of putting a copyright notice on each of their photos. I am just to lazy to do it – on the other hand if I had something I really wanted to protect I might take the time.
It is a good example of what it means to be on the internet – a photo posted here is clearly a public display. The are no internet police to control what happens after that.

-- Steve - Impatience is Expensive

View manilaboy's profile

manilaboy

177 posts in 2658 days


#15 posted 10-19-2010 02:44 AM

Great post! Very enlightening.

It is not only the woodworking that really amazes me here at Lumberjocks. The intelligence is also overflowing. This is what we should have more of – intelligent discussion. More power to you guys!

Rico

-- "Real jocks do it on a bench"

Have your say...

You must be signed in to post the comments.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase