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Finishing Tips #1: Blotch Control (Homemade) Water Base Pre-Stain Conditioner

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Blog entry by pjones46 posted 03-24-2011 07:45 AM 7547 reads 11 times favorited 39 comments Add to Favorites Watch
no previous part Part 1 of Finishing Tips series Part 2: Hide Glue Wash Mix for Cherry »

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39 comments so far

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Dave

11218 posts in 1689 days


#1 posted 03-26-2011 03:41 AM

How did the look, consistency and viscosity compare to the Charles Neil blotch control?
And can we see pics of the finished product?
very interesting, very interesting !

-- Superdav "No matter where you go - there you are." http://chiselandforge.com

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pjones46

604 posts in 1492 days


#2 posted 03-26-2011 04:41 AM

Viscosity was about the same as best I could tell. Watery and milky color in container. When it dried it was as transparent as Neil’s. Also the clarity of grain etc was about the same.

I also tried it on poplar and swear that it made it look like Cherry, blocking out the white and off shade green in the poplar but yet showed the grain. The only thing is his in the jar has an oily funny smell and my mix has none of that.

I’ll try to get some pictures of the samples I did with both in the AM.

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pjones46

604 posts in 1492 days


#3 posted 03-27-2011 03:48 PM

Here is the best I could do for a picture. Mine is on left and Neils on right. Minor blotching on both but way better than without. Also, both samples were better than using a cut Shellac sealer coat. I am however, on the final project, going to reduce the color so it comes out lighter than the test pieces. Used the dark color to see what the worst possible results would be as far as blotching and hiding the figure of the wood. The picture really does not do either justice.

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Dave

11218 posts in 1689 days


#4 posted 03-28-2011 12:04 AM

very nice and thanks for posting your results

-- Superdav "No matter where you go - there you are." http://chiselandforge.com

View Steven H's profile

Steven H

1116 posts in 1909 days


#5 posted 04-20-2011 06:18 AM

Ok Im confused
Correct me if im wrong
You said you use the wood glue, water, and the water stain mixed together
before applying the charlie neil pre-conditioner and wood glue/stain mix, you sanded the wood with 220 grit.
Apply it on the wood, then wiped excess off?

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pjones46

604 posts in 1492 days


#6 posted 04-20-2011 09:09 AM

My mix is 5 oz of the Gorilla White Wood Glue and mixed it with 36 oz of water and then added 2 oz of General Finishes natural water based stain.

I applied my mix to the wood let it dry, sanded, another coat of my mix, sanded, then dyed color. If you watched Charles Neils video it is the same process steps. I did not put his product over my mix.

Pictures above, left using my mix on cherry and right his mix used on cherry. Only the application steps were the same.

View Steven H's profile

Steven H

1116 posts in 1909 days


#7 posted 04-20-2011 05:17 PM

That’s interesting.

I thought your suppose to apply the pva glue or conditioner first on wood then dye/stain.
But it worked for you, another way of applying it.

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pjones46

604 posts in 1492 days


#8 posted 04-20-2011 06:50 PM

Now I’m confused due to your comment. My mix is Gorilla White Wood Glue (PVA glue), water and a very small amount of natural water based stain (not dye stain) all mixed together. The natural water based stain (not dye stain) added in my mix added some sort of component to the mix that seemed to boost anti blotching.

View Steven H's profile

Steven H

1116 posts in 1909 days


#9 posted 04-20-2011 07:29 PM

Fine Ill ask you this.

Why did you mix the PVA glue with the stain? Is this better way than applying the pva on wood first, then stain. Or is it faster?

View trimmer's profile

trimmer

90 posts in 2290 days


#10 posted 04-20-2011 07:35 PM

Thanks for the heads up on the conditioner!!!
I will have to try that formula

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pjones46

604 posts in 1492 days


#11 posted 04-20-2011 07:51 PM

Steve H said:

“Fine Ill ask you this.

Why did you mix the PVA glue with the stain? Is this better way than applying the pva on wood first, then stain. Or is it faster?”

Reply:

The stain added some chemical component to the mix, maybe their “Proprietary Acrylic polymer” which reduced more of the blotching ever so slightly. I have no idea what the Acrylic polymer is or how it reinforced the mix, but it did or it appeared to do so.

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Steven H

1116 posts in 1909 days


#12 posted 04-20-2011 09:22 PM

I believe Acrylic polymer is the stain binder. From some research I’ve found out that painting artist use it for glaze, mix with paints, or protective coat.

Is this the General stain your using?
http://www.generalfinishes.com/retail-products/water-base-wood-stains-dyes/water-base-wood-stains

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pjones46

604 posts in 1492 days


#13 posted 04-21-2011 12:43 AM

Yes that is the General stain used. It was the only product I had on hand at the time that was neutral in color so that’s what was used. I suppose there are much cheaper alternative to gain the properties of the acrylic polymers.

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Steven H

1116 posts in 1909 days


#14 posted 04-21-2011 01:41 AM

After deep research I’ve found out that there’s two types of PVA. They both are called PVA.

Polyvinyl Alcohol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_alcohol

Polyvinyl Acetate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_acetate

I think you meant You should said that the Gorilla Glue is Polyvinyl Acetate glue, not Polyvinyl Alcohol

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pjones46

604 posts in 1492 days


#15 posted 04-21-2011 02:20 AM

As it contains a Alcohol Ester Polymer per their MSDS sheet then I would have to say a Polyvinyl Alcohol.

I’m no chemist, but I think the general public does not distinguish between the two types where both are referred to as PVA to the woodworker.

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