That'll Do, Pig.

If I paid myself a quarter every time I say “That’ll do, pig” to myself, I would have a fair sum by weeks end.
Every project is a balance of end use and time and stock available. Sometimes you just have to park your OCD and shove a project forward and on to the next. Not ever piece of workshop furniture needs to look like the H. O. Studley tool chest.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

Eric, just put it down to differnet strokes for differnt folks. Also some people are happiest when they are complaining. So you made someone happy.

-- If we learn from our mistakes, I'm getting a fantastic education.

You know, Eric, I think this is why I like Lumberjocks so much. Folks here are real woodworkers and they understand real woodworkers. They are not egotistical- at least in their posts- and will offer constructive criticism and suggestions instead of trying to make themselves feel important by minimizing someone elses work.

We have all posted a project, here, that may not have been up to our “usual” standard, simply to give someone else an idea of another way of doing something. That’s called sharing.

Anymore, in my life, I refuse to be associated with people that persist in negativity and self praise. I don’t need it.

Lew

you mean you DIDN’T inlay your push stick? dear god…. you ARE sloppy ;)

it IS (as everything in life is) all relative, and depends on personal perspective. you say po-tey-yo, I say po-tuh-to sort of thing.

sometimes it seems like everyone is too nice on lumberjocks, and it would be nice to get some real criticism, but with that in mind, there is a way to criticize in a humane way – constructive criticism is the way to go. but just like the original post – even that relies on our own personal point of view of what is constructive and what is mean.

Anyways Eric, glad to see you’re still active over there on the other side of the planet. Keep on chiseling.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

“And I think that everything you make out of wood that is for use in the shop should work…and who cares what it looks like.”

Amen, brother!

On similar note…

My wife, who pays very little attention to woodworking other than the finished product, noticed that folks who make nice things with the shop usually get far more spousal and family support than folks who spend most of their time making things for the shop.

So, if someone has time to make inlaid push sticks and french polished door stops, that’s great! Most of us have to choose between nice output and pretty jigs.

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Eric, you should stop reading the crap put out by people who don’t know how to spell or punctuate properly. It’s just not worth the effort. The really bad ones like “your Adam” rarely say anything coherent anyway.

Here’s a few excellent ressources that would do much good to that impolite meathead: Grammar Girl , Manners Guy , and The MannersCast .

And yes, I also would like more real positive criticism and less excessive compliments here, but I rather have kind people praising things than stupids criticising arbitrarily.

-- Jojo, shopless in Kyoto · http://twitter.com/kagushokunin

Eric, as I said in your original post it still looks pretty good to me. I agree with Adam to a degree in that it would be nice to put both form and functionality into all areas of our woodworking endeavors but I, personally, tend to lower my standards somewhat when I make something for the shop since it is “just a piece of shop furniture”. I think we all would love the look of hardwood cabinetry in our shops as opposed to simple plywood boxes but this is largely overkill, in my opinion, with the physical abuse and environmental conditions that shop furniture/accessories will face.

I think that Adam is coming from a school of thought whereby, in bygone times, a woodworker/carpenter relied on tool totes and other items necessary for plying their trade to serve as an advertisement of his/her craftsmanship. There you would see furniture quality tool boxes and totes constructed with dovetails, inlays and gorgeous woods with a high quality finish on them. But, simply put, most of us do not have the time or money to devote to such “elaborate” displays.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

Don’t worry about the people who like to run down your work just because it isn’t up to a certain standard.I am just learning about wood working and am making small items to start.I find each one I do gets just a little bit better.I don’t have all the fancy tools and machines to do a lot of things but what I have so far I am happy with.I try to read as many blogs and projects as I can to learn from all the pros here at LJ.When I see something I like then I tell that person.I know that my projects are of no interest to some wood workers but to ones just starting like me maybe I can encourage them to start small and learn from them.Where I live taking a course is no option.Schools are too far away.And the local schools don’t offer woodworking.So I am greatful to all the LJ’s who post how to do things.Thank you.

-- Dustygirl..Hastings,Ontario.. How much wood can 1 gal chuck if 1 gal can't cut wood?

Jojo,

You beat me to the punch by just a bit. That yo-yo should buy a dictionary . . . or perhaps a 2nd-grade reader. YIKES!!!!

-- Even if to be nothing more than a bad example, everything serves a purpose.

Wow, people like that make me smile. I realize how much better my life must be since I’m not nearly that miserable.

I back Jojo.

The topic of a hard critique vs sugar coated compliments has come up at LJ more than once.

I struggled with this some myself and the conclusion that I came to was this: Everybody knows what is wrong with their project and they really expose themselves for posting. I am going to give positive reinforcement for what has been done right so that individuals will continue to head that direction.

We all start climbing the ladder from the bottom – including myself. That means I have some not-so-great projects in my portfolio too. But every project was a great learning experience, just as you pointed out on this project for yourself. I will give a hard critique to those that want it, sometimes publicly but mostly privately. It is never based on personal taste but things like technical craftsmanship, balance, and proportion. It is never a bash session. I always keep in mind that I am not immune to making bad design choices or mistakes.

Over time, I have seen many of the LJ members make real progress in their skill level. I think it proves that keeping people around with a kind word and friendly support has helped them grow in the craft and I will continue to support others in this way.

Oh, by the way- I loved “Babe” and I got the reference as soon as I read it. I laughed to myself because I say it all the time.

“That’ll do pig, that’ll do.”

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I agree with JOJO.

Personally, most of the jigs that I make for the shop are not very pretty. Once in a while, I use the opportunity to learn a new technique while making something for the shop. For instance, I recently made a small oak step stool and I used all hand cut dovetails for the joints. The first few that I cut were not very nice but the last ones were pretty good. The step stool will never leave my shop and certainly will not be a present, but I learned something and, to me, that is what is important.

-- "A goal without a plan is a wish."

Eric – don’t let Adam get to you. There are people who would find something wrong with MYstuff—so heaven knows they’d find something wrong with yours! Geez——:-)

Seriously – we all have different takes on things. I like to post a lot of stuff because I get a lot of feedback. Both good and bad. I think along the lines with the others. I try to do everything as well as I can but I don’t waste a lot of time pondering how I could have made the shop jig just a little bit pettier so it looks good covered in dust.

Keep at it Eric!

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

Eric,
I just took a look at your chisel box. Looks good ‘enuff’ for me. After all, I could not hear the IRWINS complaining and it looks like you will be able to find and retrieve your chisels whenever you want. Was it supposed to look pretty, replete with fine joinery etc.?

-- I love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

I looked at your chisel box…...the chisels fit…....nuf said, well done. At times I find myself making jigs as though they were a furniture commision. Why? Because at the time I had nothing better to do. Form follows function and your storage box seems to function well. Let Adam post his negative comments on this site and I guarantee he will get a warm reception! We are a bunch of good guys, and gals, who support and encourage each other. Life is too short to take the Adam’s seriously.

-- Don, Pittsburgh

Eric,

I am truly sorry you had to deal with a jerk like “Adam” there. Yes, I agree that one should take pride in their work, even shop stuff, but I don’t see where you did otherwise. You and I both are beginner woodworkers, as everyone else here either is or was at some point. What “Adam” there seems to forget is that projects like that chisel box teaches you valuable skills that will improve your woodworking as a whole. You obviously recognized this with your “lessons learned” section of that post.

In a way, the strength of LumberJocks can be turned into a negative. The people here on LJ will compliment profusely. It can get folks to thinking that everyone is like this. Unfortunately, “Adam” is proof otherwise. However, these jerks truly are in the minority.

While I like the idea of having an ornately decorated workbench and tool cabinet, and I want my shop to really show what kind of craftsman I am (at this point, it’s really just hope to be ;)), that’s hardly grounds to say another approach is wrong. So long as it works, is safe, and you’re happy with it, people like “Adam” need to have a Coke and a smile and shut the ** up! ;)

-- "Give me your poor tools, your tired steel, your huddled masses of rust." Yep, I ripped off the Statue of Liberty. That's how I roll!

I guess that we should all criticize jeffthewoodworker because he made his lathe tool holders out of construction plywood.

But that’s his and the chisel box is yours. Some items are made to be utilitarian and are made the easiest way possible and with what is at hand. Other things are made as presentation pieces and are made to show our craftsmanship.

I made a sliding table for my bandsaw and I used what wood I had in a size that I could use. Could I have made it better (Yes) Could I have made it pretter (Yes) am I going to rebuild it (Yes) But only because I want different features. Well now that I think of it maybe I’ll use some ebony veneer so that I can see my marks better.

I agree with your frustration on someone picking apart what you used as a tool holder to make them easier to use and protect.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

We make things for ourselves, mostly out of practicality. Some people as stated above, aren’t happy, unless they are making other people miserable. We all know someone like that. How many projects do we have that we haven’t posted here because they don’t even come up to our own standards in a basic state? I have quite a few, myself.

Spelling and Grammar are a different thing all together. Unless you are paid to be a perfect speller and grammatically correct, then spelling and grammar shouldn’t really matter, as long as people understand what you mean. If we were to have spelling and grammar police involved in internet posts, then posting becomes so much less fun. And some of us would have the S/G police after us on every post.

-- Respect your shop tools and they will respect you - Ric

“Some people as stated above, aren’t happy, unless they are making other people miserable.”

And all this time, I thought “We’re not happy, until you’re not happy!” was only an FAA statement. <g>

Happy New Year to all of you!

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Wow there hasn,t been a controversy like this since Norm Abram appeared on the cover of Fine Woodworking! When you put yourself in the public eye you soon find some people only have one and some have theirs wide open. Just remember its 20 to 1 in your favour with the comments so far so you must be doing something right. Whatever it is keep doin it!

-- if the hand is not working it is not a pure hand

Eric, If it works for what you want, good work, and yes, “that will do pig.” I live by that sentence and it was probably the best words spoken in that movie.

-- Brian, Lebanon PA, If you aren’t having fun doing it, find something else to do.

Eric, your box is functional and looks fine. You never tried to make-believe it was fine furniture and you stated clearly that, not only you were a novice, but you didn’t even had a proper workshop or bench to help you make it. I can’t see where is the problem. Just obviate the jerks… but know he won’t be the last. You’ve put yourself in the spotlight by exposing you publicly in your blog and—sadly—this is a risk we all endure when doing so.

I’m not a grammar nazi, oldskoolmodder but spelling and grammar do matter when they reach such level that prevent the message to be transmitted or, at least, distract so much that make it really difficult to understand.

I do make tons of errors myself, nobody is immune to them and I’m fine with that. On the other hand, trying to write properly is a sign of respect towards your readers. And the opposite shows laziness and carelessness. It is egoistical.

English is not my first language, it is actually only my fourth down the list in the order I master them. That is what makes me unable to understand that someone whose native language probably is English (After all “Adam” is an English name) could manage to write so poorly.

-- Jojo, shopless in Kyoto · http://twitter.com/kagushokunin

mostly agreeing with everything that was said here, I must point out that at least he had the decency of sending as private message. I believe that this might fall under just the category of “person who wish well but don’t know how to express himself very well”. i havn’t seen the actual message, so i don’t know. maybe I am just hopeless optimist.

edit: sorry, i have just re-read and understood that it was public. ok – no excuses for this – this guy is a bad boy.

-- The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep...

the great thing about criticism that you don’t agree with is that it helps validate your choices…. before you may not have thought about what “will do”.. and now you can consciously say “this will do” and be proud of it.. no apologies necessary. So I guess we need to thank Adam because he has helped us all think about what “will do” in our woodworking projects.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I have to say that I am overwhelmed by the response to my post. Thanks to those of you who gave words of encouragement. Now I know who to contact when I find myself in the middle of a gang fight!

I, for one, wasn’t bothered by Adam’s English. On the contrary, I thought it added quite a bit of color to the blog! I could almost hear an angry Irishman or Scot in his comments (although his IP address said Netherlands).

-- Eric at http://adventuresinwoodworking.com

Eric, if your “chisel box” is functional and practical for your work shop use – you have achieved your primary goal.

Keep doing what you think you are able to do. I think Likas is proud of you.
Happy new year!

-- masrol, kuala lumpur, MY.

Eric, Do I like your work? Yes I do. Do I believe it is exceptional and refined? No I do not. It is however, genuine and should be accepted for what it is. I also would like to compliment your ability to push past your frustration and anger to find the message within the critique, even if that critique is not requested or warranted. We may not know what his motivation is, could be contempt for its level of refinement or it could be jealousy out of its simplicity of purpose, who knows. For everyone there is to knock you down, there will be one to back you up… Keep posting your projects, I appreciate them. (as do others).

Be wary of those here that criticize those that dare to criticize. i.e… Spelling, tone, etc. If you do not like what they say, fine, don’t like it. But, to discount their opinion based on their ability to spell is wrong.

“Critique the work, not the person”

Keep up the good work,

Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

Hey, stop stressing about your chisel box. Looks like it works great, and is much better than the plastic thing the other guy likes. Let him keep his in the blister pack, or spend a hundred hours using his chisels to make a place to store them. Think about it. Best holiday wishes. bbqKing.

-- bbqKing, Lawrenceville

Eric don’t worry about “adam”, look what he did to “eve”, lol. Just enjoy making things that make YOUR woodworking more enjoyable. We all started out as rookies and skill only comes with trial and error. I post a few photos that are not up to some of the skills seen in other’s projects but that is ok. I’m just learning a lot about this hobby and as long as I enjoy what I’m doing and am satisfied with my “creations” then the world is right.

Eric, I am very glad to learn that I am not the only woodworker that does not make his “shop furniture” to be displayed in a museum. I build mine to be functional only, I cannot afford to spend money on material for items that I use in the shop just to make life easier, nor can I spend the time to make it look good, I spend my ” good wood, and time ” building the items I sell or give as gifts, the ” shop furniture” is to make this job easier. and the appearance of my shop furniture is not a reflection on my ability as a craftsman. I for one like the looks of your chisel box.
maybe Adam should walk a mile in your moccasins.
Smitty

-- Smitty!!!

To the larger point, I think I’ve mentioned before that when I get criticism that really stings, I’ve trained myself to automatically respond with “thank you”, and then spend some time thinking about why it stings.

Because it either means that I’m taking seriously the opinion of someone that I shouldn’t, or it means that my conscious opinion about something doesn’t mesh with my true valuing of it. In this case, it sounds like you’ve correctly re-evaluated your opinion of input from random Internet posters.

-- Dan Lyke, Petaluma California, http://www.flutterby.net/User:DanLyke

Dan,

Very nicely said!

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Thanks, Barry.

I’d also note that, after clicking through and reading the project description, these “lessons learned” projects are exactly the sort of thing I like to read. I can actually go see some pretty nice furniture in local galleries and stores, an there are lots of cool pieces and projects here in LumberJocks, but the articles and presentations I’m interested in reading aren’t just the “Hey, look, I’m a great craftsman!”, they’re the “here’s how I became better at doing this”.

I don’t think it’s a great box, it’s a serviceable functional box, but I really appreciate the lessons that accompany it.

-- Dan Lyke, Petaluma California, http://www.flutterby.net/User:DanLyke