What did you say about my project???

There are times like today, when I see a project and think, I can’t objectively comment on that thing, without sounding too critical, so I don’t bother to post anything at all. There are also times when people post tons of projects all at once and I want to say, HEY! give other people a chance, but don’t, for fear of having someone tell me to get lost.

That said, I don’t care for the always rosy comments all the time either. I will tell someone something is nice, if I like it, and if I think something could be done differently, then I’ll say so, but it’s mostly a lost cause because the project is already done.

Criticism is fine as far as I’m concerned, as long as it’s warranted and related to the project and not spelling/grammar, and no one’s feelings are being hurt. If someone can’t take criticism, then they shouldn’t post in the first place. I don’t post everything I make for various reasons, some because they aren’t anything special, they are just for me to make my work better, but if I think they are useful to other people, I’ll show them and hope someone can use it to better their work, or at least save money or time.

As for building things for family or friends, well, I find it rather hard to build something that I know the person will just set on a shelf, or give away in a few years. That makes me feel like I did all that work for nothing.

This is a subject that we could go on for days and days with and I look forward to seeing what other people have to say.

-- Respect your shop tools and they will respect you - Ric

Tom,

I like your idea and really appreciate both the positive comments and the more critical comments I see being posted. We can all learn from each other. There are a lot of very skilled lumber jocks posting their work here and it encourages me to work harder to do finer quality work.

-- I love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

I’ve never gotten better from a compliment. I have gotten better from a critique.

Nuff said.

-- Steven

This topic comes up every few months. The general consensus always seems to be that it would be great for Martin to add a feature to list the project as “comments welcome”, “critique welcome”, “just sharing”, “be gentle” ... etc. Until Martin adds that feature, users should state in the description what level of feedback they want. Which is pretty much what Tom just suggested. However, I have yet to see anyone really do that.

-- http://www.north40custom.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

Hey I am my worst critic if I can see a mistake so can the world, BUT I learn from ” MY” mistakes. This forum is about ideas and learning if I see a joint that is not up to ” my ” standards chances are that he/she who made it knows about it so why would I state the obvious, but they may not notice the amazing design they have created. Lets focus on the positive and should you ask for a “critic” perspective I would be happy to oblige. Just my two cents worth.

-- All bleeding will eventually stop.

I might suggest that this is a two way street too. I think some of us ( me included) might tend to post only those projects that we think have been successful. It would be interesting ( and instructive) to show some of our failures, what we’ve learned and perhaps if we’ve been able to recover from our mistakes.

If we are open about our mistakes, that leaves an opening for others to comment and provide useful suggestions.

I think effectively dealing with mistakes is a big part of woodworking which is seldom discussed here or anywhere.

Here. I started by posting this bench project

-- Steve, New Zealand, www.steveracz.com

I like that; I’ve been thinking the same thing. I have thick skin, and appreciate objective, constructive criticism. I however, not knowing anyone on this site personally, favor the sentiment of OldSkoolModder; sometimes if I see something I would like to comment/criticize I refrain altogher because I don’t want to come off as an a$$. I’ve often thought it strange that there’s not more professional, constructive criticizm of work on this site. It’s not a personal insult to tell someone “your workmanship looks great, although I would have paid a little more attention to the grain matching on the top, and the grain selection on the legs.” etc…

Great idea.

Regards, JM

-- Jarrod, Taos, NM http://jzmurphree.wordpress.com/

“Perhaps when we post our projects and desire an objective critique, we could state that in the post. That would signal to the reader that their comments and suggestions are welcome and the person posting is looking for that personal insight.
As I type this, I’m thinking that it could even be a feature (radio button, separate listing, etc) that could distinguish it from a standard posting.”

GREAT IDEA!

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Do we really need anymore buttons on this thing? Lets be realistic here. If there was a button for every purpose there wouldn’t be room for projects. I asked this question a while back and the consensus is to post happy positive remarks on the project page itself, then PM the OP the negative remarks. In my opinion this is bad. Why? Because the OP may take the negative comments as a personal attack instead of taking it as a learning experience, and, the people inspired to make the same project may make the same mistakes that the OP made simply because they did not see the negative feedback.
Lets face it, we are all to nice to each other and that’s what makes this site a joy. But at what expense? If nobody steps in and says “do this, avoid this, and…” then we are mearly posting projects for praise, not to learn and gain experience. Design is as big as the actual execution when it comes to feed back. In fact most people won’t even notice small gaps or poor joinery. They see the design and the finish. So if I post a project that is perfectly built but with a poor design I won’t know how to become a better designer if nobody says “that’s a great job on the build, but your design is pretty poor”. Then I can ask why, and not only will I learn, but others will learn too. I posted my maple box on Woodweb and got negative feedback. He said that I should have left the bowtie joinery out and only did the marquetry, or vice versa, because together they clash. Looking at it for the first time I didn’t think so, but after looking at it everyday I wish I would have done splines or the like. My eye goes to the bowties not to the marquetry. And now I don’t like it. Now on my next project I will take more time to think about the overal look I’m after, not adding a bunch of stuff that I think may “WOW” people.
In the end it is up to us to comment criticism. I really don’t think we have it in ourselves to do it. Partially because we may think that other jocks may frown on us, and when we post ourselves, may not get comments from the people we need them from.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

I like to have my work critiqued, constructively. I think many other so also.

A positive comment as a response to a post and then a followup private message to offer encouragement and suggestions, to me, is a more likely to be accepted in the spirit it was intended. As I posted here once before- this site is sort of like your refrigerator. You proudly display ALL the works of art- regardless of quality and then offer encouragement to the artist at the appropriate time and place.

Lew

Tom,
I agree completely with you thoughts. The point is, the satisfaction to have done the best possible (skill, materials, time, resources) and how to do better.

The way you post and the pictures you take have an effect on the comments you receive. We can only see what you show us. It is really hard to make constructive comments from a few pictures when there is so much more to a project.

-- Sharp tools and thin whispy shavings make woodworking a joy.

I couldn’t agree more… I’m in this to learn, not to get gratuitous praise… (Although it is nice! It’s not like my wife appreciates what goes into woodworking!)

-- Ryno

I agree 100%. When you post a project, make it clear the kind of criticism you desire.

I like to get positive tips and suggestions to make my work better rather than empty compliments.

I have see some mundane common projects posted that get reviews as if the item was made by the hand of god. We all have different levels of skill and ability, and of course you don’t want to discourage in your posts.. but I have thought to post a nailed and uneven but joint as a goof to see how many people would tell me how stunning it was.

I only leave a comment if I really think it is helpful or deserving a compliment or if the person is asking for help or ideas. If I think that the work is sub-par or even silly, I just shut up and move on. Fortunately most of what I see here is good to great work. And some is incredible work!

-- making sawdust....

as Peter says, this discussion comes up several times throughout the year and there is always a great discussion about how people use this site.
Some people don’t have time to make thorough critiques but want to acknowledge the project and just leave a quick “well done” comment. Others, (like myself) don’t have the expertise to make a critique and can only acknowledge that the project is appealing to them.
Asking for a critique is a great idea, in my opinion, and is usually suggested in these discussion but rarely used in practice.
Some people don’t want critiques, others just want gentle suggestions and still others can take the “what did you do that for” type comments.

What’s the answer? I have no idea. I don’t think there is one “right way” for all people.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I’ll put my 2 cents in again on this topic.

I try to fit my comments to the skill level of the woodworker. Yes, I sometimes make rosy comments on so-so projects. But if the person is obviously inexperienced, he or she needs encouragement more than anything else. If I feel I have a tip that will help them, I’ll say so. But if the problem is just klutzy joints due to lack of practice, there is no reason to criticize. Unless a person is totally clueless, they can see how there work stacks up against other projects. I also remember what it was like to work hard and be proud of a project, only to look back on it a year later and see how mediocre it was.

On the other side of the coin, I am more likely to point out something I don’t like about a project by someone like GaryK or Lee Jessberger because these guys are masters of their craft. They don’t need a pat on the back at all, and the best are always looking to get better.

As to making a button for desired level of criticsim, think how silly the choices would be. No matter how you phrased it, it would come out something like:

A) Hit me with your best shot
B) If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything.
C) Please just stroke my ego.

In the end, I think it’s best just left up to individual choice. Let each LJ comment/praise/criticize as he or she sees fit.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

I have noticed in a few replies, some believe that positive comments should be posted and negative should be pm’d. I would disagree with this as it is counter productive to the site as a whole by depriving others of the wisdom of a full individual critique. First, I’d like to clarify that constructive criticism is never negative. To critique a project (providing the person is seeking it) is to support their abilities and to encourage them to overcome their weaknesses.
Since I’ve been in the art & design world for a while, I know (from experience) the power of a fair and impartial criique of my work. It helps me reinforce the direction I want to go in and to make me be aware of the shortcomings I may not have even seen. To evaluate and offer alternatives to someone carries with it responsibilty. You first must only focus on the work itself. Once you deviate from it, you are out of bounds. Once you decide you are going to go out on a limb, be honest. Notice I said honest and not hurtful. If you like it, say so and why, offer some suggestions and be sympathetic as to the creators abilities. Now, if you don’t like it and feel compelled to say something, still be honest and say so, but make sure you tell them why and what makes you feel that it is not right. Then, I personally would offer other solutions and ideas that would offer the designer a different course next time. Maybe they will use it, maybe not.
Why offer solutions if you don’t like it? Because anyone can say they don’t like something. I feel that it is more beneficial to offer a solution or another idea that may be accepted and at the same time offer inspiration to other readers that can build on that idea or to offer an even better solution. The purpose of this is to pass along the knowledge and wisdom we have to others. Sure, there are those that don’t know how to do it, but that is ok too, they’ll learn. As long as you keep it about the project and have care and concern for the other person, you’ll do all right.

Just my thoughts…

Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

Charlie… Thats funny. But you forgot

(D) All of the above.

Tom

It could be worse. You could anonomously rate the projects on a scale of 1 to 10. “like from am I hot or am I not”

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

LOL! Tom, that would really be something!

But you make some good remarks about the nature of constructive criticism. It his sometimes hard to draw the line between a comment that is constructive, and a comment that is just critical of another person’s individual taste.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

I think the problem comes with the fact that constructive criticism can come across like bashing over the internet if one isn’t very careful. Tone of voice, body language, all the cues that can take one phrase from being obviously constructive to being cold and callous, they’re not there. As such, it needs to be a careful balance.

Personally, I’m OK with just posting “I’m looking for constructive criticism on this piece” should be sufficient. More buttons don’t really help, especially since I’ve forgotten about most of them in my time here ;)

-- "Give me your poor tools, your tired steel, your huddled masses of rust." Yep, I ripped off the Statue of Liberty. That's how I roll!

Being kind of a “newbie” on this site I can appreciate ALL of the above. If I may, I will offer my 2 cents as well.

I agree with Tom, do not be hurtful, try to recognize the persons skill level and capabilities and then offer the appropriate “opinion/advise/suggestion”. I have always agreed with “constructive criticism”, however, I think that one of the issues with that phrase is the word “criticism”, even though it “should not” be negative, it can and sometimes is taken that way. If it were “constructive advise”, or “opinion”, or “suggestion”, it might be taken with a different connotation.

I also like the idea of the person posting, plainly stating at the end if they want : criticism, opinions, ideas, advise etc…....... by all means “ask for them”. I am going to try to be more specific regarding that when I post a project because many times I ask myself, “how could I have done that better”, but never have actually asked that of anybody. This site is the absolute “best” site to do that, with the wealth of information and the diversity of talent and skills, who could not learn something from this site. I sure have.

Just my opinion, a very happy LJ !

-- Gene, Majestic Eagle Woodworks, http://majesticeagleww.etsy.com/, http://www.flickr.com/photos/majesticeagle/

I like the idea of the buttons of some sort and it has been brought up many times. I like to have someone tell me when I need to correct something because that how I learn. But it should NEVER be mean and most of the time this site has been very positive with the criticisms. I try to add opinions welcome but sometimes I forget, that’s were a button would help. The criticism should not reflect if you like the piece or not but was it constructed properly or add a different way to do it. That will improve someones skills.

I also am a very happy LJ. and that just my 2 cents :-)

-- Bob K. East Northport, NY

I was recently asked, by a person, in a PM, who’s ability clearly is superior to mine, for suggestions and critiques on his work. I was amazed, honored and a bit shaken why this budding superstar needed anything from me. I feel my turning to be average to good at times but not to this persons level. He asked for it and I gave him what little knowledge I had or suggestions. I don’t know if it was helpful but I wouldn’t or couldn’t ever give him anything but positive feedback on his projects because they are superior to any of mine. I think after being here for over 800 days, when I asked for helpful criticism and told them they won’t hurt my feelings, I was told no one here is going to hurt your feelings, that’s not what we are about. I liked that response and have lived by it here. I try not to hurt anyones feelings, and if I do I apologize.

-- Mike. mwurm13@yahoo.com

My 2 cents worth. LumberJocks would become a very different site if a 1 to 10 rating system would be installed, or if posters could choose exactly what level of critical evaluation their projects would receive. People are people, and even constructive criticism of someone’s new creation could and would lead to bad blood. Maybe we should have something like a “pro site”, where builders could post their projects open to any and all criticism. This would leave the unbelievably popular original site as is and open a new dimension to the site where new woodworkers could click to and learn from honest critiques from seasoned woodworkers about each others’ work. Once again, just my 2 cents. As always, bbqKing.

-- bbqKing, Lawrenceville

Why call it criticism, if you feel you must, make a friendly suggestion. Or not. If someone asks for it go ahead and give it to them. But don’t bust their chops. Why make bad blood.

-- Mike. mwurm13@yahoo.com

Well….I just got here so my 2 cents is probably worth only 1 cent but….If it ain’t broke…don’t fix it comes to mind on this matter. One other thing that comes to mind is that everyone is not articulate and some folks are more sensitive than others. Personally I believe I am capable of using my post to communicate what kind of feedback will be appreciated. My typical project has several errors that I have fixed or called a ‘design modification’ and I know they are there but hope no one notices. In other words, I know the flaws in my projects and some of them may warrant constructive criticism ….. I am capable of sincerely asking for that criticism. On the other hand, it is quite alright with me if someone with more experience offers me criticism because he wants to share his knowledge. That makes me feel really good.
I’m against buttons….and that is all I have to say about that.
thanks,

-- Don in San Diego, Ca.

i think that adding buttons ect. would make this site too complicted. i think a better idea is for the person just to state how they want their work critiqued (as some people allready do).

-- BRODY. NSW AUSTRALIA -arguments with turnings are rarely productive-

I critique everyones projects the way that I would have mine done by others .
If you can’t take the heat , get out of the kitchen .
I’m not going to paint a rosy picture for you so you and others can keep making the same mistakes .
I’m here to show my work and have people with more experience critique it and be honest with me . Don’t tell me something is great when I know it really sucks . If you think it sucks , then I want to hear it and tell me what you don’t like about it so I can learn and move forward with my skills .
This is the best site on the whole web with some of the best people on Earth as members . We need more good members , not more buttons : )

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

another key point is owning your response to comments—we cannot stop individuals from making harsh comments (yes some may warrant deleting but they had already made their impact.)
We own our reactions: reply without anger and retaliation, let the negative slip off our backs, read between the lines, as needed, to seek opportunities for growth (even if that means reaffirming your original choices); see with an open eye and an open heart.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

maybe a self moderated blog entry? this will allow the author to decide what to make public and what to keep to himself. initially all comments will be “personal” and if the author thinks that a comment is constructive, he can decide to “publish” it. this will also allow to make “longer”, more detailed comments and might contribute to making “guidebooks” on specific problems. maybe even allow the author to edit the comments and only publish parts that are ok with him.

I know that I wouldn’t mind getting “hardcore” critique in PM, but making a critique public calls for more PC. so i think this is something in between and should be fairly easy to implement.

-- The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep...

Does my ego get ‘stroked’ here? Yes! and for me, that is what makes me try harder. I am NOT an expert woodworker. I am more of a wannabe woodworker. For me personally telling me something looks good, works. The next time in the shop I work harder.

I have seen people post their projects with ‘all comments welcome’. That is fine and they get constructive comments.

I want no more buttons, and no bashing. If you want comments, ask for them. Easy, done.

-- Berta in NC

Good point, Berta. I’m glad someone besides me sees the value of positive reinforcement.

I don’t give blatantly false praise to a bad project, but I try to find something encouraging like “I can see you put a lot of time into this project. Don’t worry, those dovetails get easier with practice.” Or, “That is really a beautiful piece of quilted maple you used there.” (Note – nothing mentioned about quality of construction.)

As you said, most people will work harder to improve their skills when they get a bit of encouragement.

To me, giving advice or tips on woodworking techniques is different from criticsm, and should always be welcomed. For example, if someone posts a chessboard and the squares are kind of ragged, I might say “I’m not sure what method you used to make your squares, but let me tell you about a really easy way I like to use…..”

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

I used your wonderful way to checkerboard. My husband loves to play checkers with the kids. Note, I did not post it. I know that the glue joints slipped during glue up. The sander tried to ‘eat’ it. My husband loves it, my kids love it. I am working on making a square clamping jig so it doesn’t happen again. Because the comments and encouragement teach me. Makes me try harder to accomplish what is hard for me.

-- Berta in NC

It seems to me that unless you are arrogant or blind, you’ll see where your work compares against others on this site. If you don’t measure up, you’ll know it and you’ll find many examples and instructions to improve. However, if you lack objectivity, no amount of criticism will help. My position is that if you want to learn you will, if not then you won’t. Sometimes, requesting a ‘critique’ is asking for an ego stroke.

-- When you give someone a chance it may well be their last.

Russel, not always. I have seen people here that made for example a chess board with mitred frame that had no space to move. this creates an interesting dillema. on the one hand, i can point this out and ruin their joy of making a very hard piece but save their next project or I can let time do its thing. I think its better to point it out as the wood movement can take a long time and they can make many similar pieces that will all have the same problem. this is an example of critique that you usually don’t see yourself. I think that I would love someone to point this to me on time….

-- The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep...

Russel,
“Requesting a ‘critique’ is asking for an ego stroke”??? I think that point of view is rather naive. Would you not consider it instead as someone asking for help? It is a sorry situation when someone would rebuff any attempt of assistance to better their work. Are we all so prideful that a few carefully phrased comments intended to better us would create within us a backlash of animosity and contempt for those that try to help us? I love being a part of this group of fine woodworkers, but I have to admit there are times I turn off my computer in frustration and have to go back to the shop.
When we post our project online, weather we hear it or not, there is a critique. Each and every one of us does it when we look at a project. We judge it, we evaluate it and we gleen whatever knowledge we can from it and then we move on. Look at how many people view these projects and blogs and don’t even bother to say anything!
I don’t want to upset the applecart and I surely don’t want to make the ostriches here pull their heads out of the sand. My wish is to get some of that information and knowledge to those that can use it.

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

one thing that I’ve learned over the years is that everyone thinks differently—the same words/situation can be taken in completely different ways by different people. You will never be able to please everyone with one particular way of doing things; and the most innocent of words, even when meant as positive, can be found hurtful by some people, based on their personal lives and past experiences. All we can do is try our best at being the best that we can be, saying things that are true to who we are and how we want to be seen by others.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Hi Ms Debbie,
As always, I appreciate your point of view and look forward to your moderation within the forums. It is not my intent to offend or hurt anyones feelings, rather, I would appreciate another avenue for those that seek a more critical evaluation of their work, a means to do so. Would it be possible to add within the “Entry Tag/Keywords” a “requests constructive critisizm”? So, when someone posts a project, they could use a searchable keyword in hopes that a “mentor” could assist them. This way, it is voluntary for both the poster and the person that critiques the work.

Thanks,
Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

We live in world where “Candy Coated” is the norm, where every kid makes the team, where privilages are fast becoming rights, ..........................and there isnt anything that can be done about it. If you gather a group of 40 people and they are to make a decision and they all agree…...does that mean the answer is 100 correct?.......or is it possible that all 40 got the answer wrong?

I learned a couple of years ago that the words my mother always said are true…....”If you have nothing nice to say then shut up”.

Cheers

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

all options are worth a try!

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Making mistakes is THE path to being a well rounded woodworker. Lumberjocks it seems is about having a safe place to be at any stage of this process.

You want critique, just find a paying customer. You’ll get plenty and then some.

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

This is a very interesting thread.So many opinions of what to say and what not to say.Being new to wood working and learning along the way I always comment positively.If I like it I will tell you.I don’t know what you did wrong or what you should have tried.I only know if I like it or not.
So my question is…would you rather I not comment on your work just because I don’t know what was involved in making it?I think I want to believe that everyone likes to know if people like their work.

-- Dustygirl..Hastings,Ontario.. How much wood can 1 gal chuck if 1 gal can't cut wood?

Some random thoughts in random order …

The other woodworking sites that I am familiar with have regular flame wars that often escalate from a poorly worded comment or critique. The person being critiqued responds in anger, and the words fly. Perhaps I have only found the wrong sites, but in my experience “candy coated” is not the norm for this sort of forum, and the friendly, encouraging atmosphere of LJ is a refreshing break from the rage. I would hate to see LJ descend to the level of those other sites. Suggesting that people should be able to accept criticism probably does not guarantee that they will be able to accept criticism.

Every time that this topic comes up, I find myself commenting less. If I really like a project, but don’t have anything to suggest … I guess I shouldn’t say anything? I looked at Tom’s projects (and noticed that he states that comments/feedback are welcome), and found that they are beautiful, and I don’t see any flaws. It’s great work, Tom. You obviously know what you are doing. I enjoyed looking at your beautiful boxes. I’m sorry I can’t tell you how to improve, so I didn’t comment. But doesn’t knowing that people found your project aesthetically pleasing also tell you that you are on the right track with weight, balance, colors, finish, joinery, etc? I think knowing you are getting it right can be just as instructional as knowing you are getting it wrong.

Every time this topic comes up, someone says something to the effect of “the pros on LJ should be giving more input and instruction to the others by providing detailed and constructive critiques.” Yet a few months ago there was a huge stink about how the pros were ruining the site for the “pure” woodworkers who do it just for the love of wood, and the pros should go away or have their own, separate site. I’m left to wonder if the pros are wanted or not wanted. I think a lot of the pros who frequent the site are taking time that they could be earning a living to write instructional blogs, post jigs and tips, describe processes and techniques, offer project plans and instructions, and provide a little encouragement. For the pros to take the time to provide even a brief critique of even a fraction of the projects that are posted (currently about 40 projects a day) would take an enormous amount of time, and would certainly take away from the educational input they provide. And the critique would be based on two or three relatively small photos (400×600 or so) taken in who-knows-what light from who-knows-what angles. You could ask a movie critic to give a review based on the cover art and the theatrical trailer, but would you really get constructive feedback? Maybe if you want a pro to critique your project you could send them the project or a couple of dozen hi-res photos and an offer to pay for the time spent reviewing the work and composing a critique.

A lot of projects – I’m guessing the majority – are being built once. If someone has already built the one chess board they are ever going to build, how does it help them if I tell them they should not have trapped it in a mitered frame? Yes, I do see that it could help the next person who is thinking of building a chessboard, but it’s too late for the person posting the project. If someone wants real input on a project, it seems to me it would make a lot of sense to blog the process and ask for advice along the way. If people put up their sketches and photos of the process, then changes and improvements could be suggested while there is still the opportunity for the suggestions to be incorporated into the project. I’ve seen this a couple of times, and the people who did it got a huge number of really great suggestions which they had the opportunity to use.

I have woodworking friends in the real world, and when I show them what I’ve done, I usually get encouragement and support and the occasional “I think I would have …” When I really want a critique, I tell them so, and I usually get it. If they aren’t comfortable, I don’t insist. I think of LJ as a group of friends more than a peer-review site. If you really want a critique, you might say so … not just “feedback welcome,” but “I would really appreciate critiques of this project.” You’ll probably get it.

-- http://www.north40custom.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

I digress…. but I find it hysterical that the example has come up in this thread twice now of a chess board captured in a mitered frame. Anyone care to guess what my current project is? Yep, that’s right. :-)

I will defend my choice when I post it, though. (And all comments will be welcome. LOL!)

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

Peter, you summed up my view in your comment: “I think of LJ as a group of friends more than a peer-review site” I like that.

• ask for critiques and constructive feedback if you want it
• be prepared for critiques anyway
• be positive, encouraging and informative in your feedback
• be prepared for non-positive, non-encouraging and non-informative feedback
• if you only have the time to say “good job” then that in itself says wonders
• don’t just say “good job”—give constructive feedback explaining what you like / don’t like…

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Peter,
First of all, I’ll say thank you for your kind comments. I cannot take 100% credit for my work as I consider myself a student of woodworking and strive to improve my craft with the help of my peers. There is only so much education you can get from a book, the rest must come from talented people and experimentation. LumberJocks is my resource for those talented people; people like all of you that took the time to express yourselves on this prickly topic.
Woodworking is the avenue that we all travel on and while we are proud of our accomplishments, on this journey we acquire skills and wisdom from those around us that better our abilities. What better tribute to those that have helped us could there be than to pass on that insight to others?

I know that there are those that oppose my thoughts as well as those that support them. Knowing this and the passion with witch they express themselves, I’m sure that there could never be a consensus. I will however practice what I preach and always offer my work for critique and be willing to assist and support others when asked. Well, OK, sometimes I’m not asked.

Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

Peter,
First of all, I’ll say thank you for your kind comments. I cannot take 100% credit for my work as I consider myself a student of woodworking and strive to improve my craft with the help of my peers. There is only so much education you can get from a book, the rest must come from talented people and experimentation. LumberJocks is my resource for those talented people; people like all of you that took the time to express yourselves on this prickly topic.
Woodworking is the avenue that we all travel on and while we are proud of our accomplishments, on this journey we acquire skills and wisdom from those around us that better our abilities. What better tribute to those that have helped us could there be than to pass on that insight to others?

I know that there are those that oppose my thoughts as well as those that support them. Knowing this and the passion with witch they express themselves, I’m sure that there could never be a consensus. I will however practice what I preach and always offer my work for critique and be willing to assist and support others when asked. Well, OK, sometimes I’m not asked.

Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

CharlieM, It was not your project, although I follow the webcam in your shop (no, you don’t know that you have one :-) )

Just to make the point about mitred frames to chess boards (that are not end grained), you can watch the woodwhisperer (ep 76, i think) looking sadly at his old project.

-- The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep...

Being a “newbie” to woodworking and this website. I came for everything, yes i would like a little encouragment, a pat on the back and a kick in the butt. To me constructive comments are fine as long as it’s from someone who understands the process a bit. It’ll help me out lot more than having someone who never cut a piece of wood make suggestions (that’s what i deal with around my area). I coud understand taking it easier on some and making it more challenging to others, just scroll throught the project it’s obivous there is a wide range of talent on this site. I don’t like the idea of asking if someone critque a particular project if it’s posted it’s fair game, but if you see someone already wrote “jschrock that project sucks” then there is no need to drive the point home.

that’s what i have to say

—j

One of my clients has an eye like an eagle. For example, on painted drywall, if you were to washh your hands and then push a finger onto the wall, the next day there would be a sticky note on the print that reads “paint me”. His “sense of proportion’ is unparralled as on a particular piece of furniture I made he noticed immediatly that one rail was 1/32” longer then the rest. He also noticed a corbel that was 4” in length, 10’ up in the air, that the corbell was 1/32 out of level over 2’ of length….......................and I still love to work for him.

A contractor who gives me quite a bit of work is also a critic of my work. he complains that an open corner cabinet was out of square but ignored the fact that when he installed it he torqued two screws which racked the cabinet. He has to have all his cabinet work made from 3/4” veneer core plywood because its “superior” to particle core plywood yet buys the stuff thats a “deal” because the sheets are delaminating. he claims to be “conscientious” yet has granite counters installed on my islands which canti-lever the island by as much as 16” with nothing under the granite to support the granite…..............so some day it IS going to crack.

I have no idea how anyone can improve their skill level without being open to critisism, be it good or bad. I have had so many perfectly good folks come, only to leave because I have “critiqued” the work that gets my name on it and quite frankly I cannot permit Sh!&&% work exiting my shop so its just as well that the sensitive leave with it…...............I just wish that I could deduct the error from their paycheque.

Some one painted my front door for me, as a favour and a surprise and when I looked at it, they looked at me, expecting me to say “Thank you”, expecting me to smile…....................only to hear

“Its *&%$#@&%$ PURPLE”

Crtisism is like ourselves. Both best friend and worst enemy.

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/