Worse than Illiteracy?

Miles, I call it “mechanically retarded”. And I think that it is intimidation or lack of ever being around someone that worked with their hands.

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

Know where you are coming from!!

Some of the folks I have met are tremendously book smart but common sense alludes them. Others are really just too busy and have the financial resources to pay someone else to do it.

As for myself, growing up poor sure was a blessing- we had to learn to be resourceful- couldn’t afford to pay someone to fix things!

my guess is that it is from lack of experience (for most of them).. never had someone around who was able to do the “fix” jobs and so they never learned how.
and then there are those who, even though they have the desire, just do not have that “fix it” gene.. tools and their hands just do not work well together.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I think some people and/or are to lazy or don’t like to get their hands dirty. And what tenontim said above I’ve run into a lot of those in my time.

-- Only the Shadow knows....................

Don’t get me started. I see it all the time and not just about “fix it” stuff.

-- Adrian ..... The 11th Commandment...."Thou Shalt Not Buy A Wobble Dado"

we should be thankful that we are all different! otherwise this world would be boring and redundant. being different also means that some people can do things that others can’t. and it means that what’s simple for one, may not be the same for another.

whether it was the way people were brought up, or no interest in doing things- some people just don’t do certain things – no need for name calling though…

Open your mind – there world is bigger than you may think – yes – even bigger than that.

;)

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Not long ago i was installing a Baldwin entry lockset on a door for a orthopedic surgeon. He noticed the tools i had with me and said he used the exact same chisel set i had in knee replacement surgery. He also remarked he had the same cordless drill that i had in his repetroire.

When i commented “Hey, you could have installed this lock yourself”. He said “Nahhhh, its too complicated for me”..I just kinda scratched my head and kept on working. LOL

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

Hello Miles;
Yes I understand some of what you are putting forth here, like with the kink in the hose….but lets remember to not talk so loud since this issue of ‘understanding how to fix’ is what puts the bread and butter on the table for many service-minded men//women. And then there’s also the issue of hey, this is job security for many….LOL. Up here in NH I used to do a lot of seasonal work on lakeside cabins and homes and folks just don’t want to cut those trees down that grow all around their places of habitat. So next thing you have is fungus and mold and rotted wood, I’ve even mentioned to these folks about what will happen, but the point hardly ever is taken. Painters and carpenters love this kind of thinking as it’s great job security….

Next I might also mention that up where I live, one can do their own electrical and plumbing on their own permanent dwelling//house, but if one owns more then one, then you’re stuck in a catch 22 time-warp, since technically speaking, one can only live in one permanent house. Next comes the issue of the other house being used for rental property and all the various codes that go along with this, till one has to in the end, call an electrician to put in those flood lights.

Energy protection codes, city codes, building inspectors and inspections, insurance company’s, the difference between an upgrade and new and all those committees of zoning and what else, only add to the increase of what can one do and not do.

I’ve also had clients who could fix the workings of their own houses, but after working all week to make those three digit incomes….they just don’t care about the details, and they can afford to call and have some-one else do the work….which means more job security….LOL.

Great story and more great thinking you’ve produced and once again….;

Thank you.
GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

This topic can be looked at in many directions. You can’t blame how you grow up. Rich or poor you can still go to the depot and buy a “how to” book on plumbing. Most poor people end up in the construction industry. It’s the industry that doesn’t require an education. In fact, there’s several vocational schools that take educationally impaired people and teach them how to put sticks together. This industry is very simple, but it’s the lazyness that drives people to make the call. These people keep a lot of other people employed too. You can’t forget that. If everyone went to the depot to buy material so they can make or fix there own stuff the industry would take a huge plunge, and other avenues of making money would need to be formed. I’m glad someone has to call out to fix the drain or fix a drawer. It’s extra money in our pockets as workers that pays our bills. Let’s just say that the lights would be off in a lot of offices if people were DIYers.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

Frank good to see you again. I’ve always thought automatic sprinklers pointed at millwork were the woodworkers best friend…In fact we should probably be subsidizing their installation…Wink

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

I think we have all experienced, “damn, I can’t figure out how to do this” and then proceded to get help, only to find out, “geesh, that was easy”. My favorite story involves my neighbor ( a chemical engineer) who came to me to help diagnose his plumbing problem. His toilets would not flush. After an extended 20 second investigation, we determined that his well pump wasnt running. He asked, ‘how can I flush the toilet without the well water? I said, when mine has gone out, I just fill a bucket with water from my pool, then pour it down the toilet to flush it. He said thanks and I left. 10 minutes later he showed up at my house with an empty bucket asking for some of my pool water. I ask. Dean, why dont you just use the water from YOUR pool, it’s a lot closer. Some people just don’t understand.

-- I love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

Hello Miles;
—-kind of like a dentist owning stock in a candy company….LOL.

GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

OK, I must respond to the association of educationally impaired people and vocational schools.

I am a retired vocational school instructor (computers, networking and electronics). I took the vocational construction course in high school. I have a BS degree in Workforce Development.

While it is true that there are learning disabled students in our vocational schools, the percentage of those students compared to an academic school, is about the same. The vocational schools have a majority of “normal” kids and even gifted students.

The implication that the construction industry is very simple is, in my opinion, misstated. “Putting sticks together” is not what the Building Construction courses teach.

Stepping down, picking up soapbox- for now.

Lew

I believe it’s due to the increased urbanization of the country which has lead to segregation of duties and specialty careerism mated to a throw-away mindset. Geez, did that sound scholarly or what?

I was raised by an urbanized pair of expat farmers. They were proficient and well practiced at “getting by.” My father was the middle child of a family of sharecroppers in south Georgia. My mother the middle daughter of a successful Florida farm family. During the day, Dad drove a truck while Mom tended to retail customers. At night and otherwise, they had mad-skills for most everything. Mom could grow anything AND can it for later. Dad could tear down a carburetor, put it right and put it back without any extra parts. And he could with a pencil, scratch pad and carpenter’s rule, design then fabricate about anything he needed out of any material be it wood, metal or mineral. And he also wasn’t afraid of a mop, or a clothesline, or an iron and yes, he could cook too! Me and my siblings wanted for nothing. All three of my brothers are motor-heads. Mine is made out of wood. I can hang a door from scratch and even make the darn door if need be.

The thirst for knowledge has to be a lifelong endeavor, a matter of intent, of perceived need, a recognition of lack, that there’s a hole in the soul for the collection of useful experiences. One that must be freshened with new insight and endeavor daily. Otherwise, why bother?

always,
J.C.

-- "Imagination is more important than knowledge" -- Albert Einstein

I think a lot of these opinions might be overly critical. Many of these people may not care to learn how to fix these simple things. Maybe they worked hard all week at something they enjoy and in their time off, don’t want to spend time getting dirty trying to do something they find boring.

Just because I sit in a chair, benefit from indoor plumbing, and use the services of a bank; doesn’t mean I need to be able to build a chair, fix a leak, or understand all the nuances of micro/macro economics. There are other qualified people doing the work. Sometimes all I need to know is I care less about the money I’d save than the time I will save.

People on this website are CONSTANTLY talking about how much your time is worth and how spending a bit extra for better quality materials is worth saving a little time. This is no different.

Well, I used to fix my own cars, but gave that up years ago. I still do my basic home repairs, though. I agree some people seem to be lacking a basic understanding of how things work. If you don’t, it is very hard to troubleshoot and repair, however.

PurpLev – I am sorry, I must strongly disagree.

The lack of even the most basic skills in dealing with technologies as simple as those involved in the houses we live in, the appliances we use and the cars that we drive everyday is symptomatic of exactly what is wrong with the USA today.

The USA was founded by people that valued independence and self-reliance to a degree that approached fanaticism. Most of those people would laugh and probably do a lot of name-calling themselves when confronting the “mechanically retarded” people that this blog is about. Why? Because the underlying prolem is exactly what Miles125 brought up in the first place; they are intimidated or they think such tasks require a mysterious gene they are sure they lack. Our founding fathers (and I) would be very understanding and supportive of anyone that tried, failed and then had to call for help in a task. They (and I) would have absolutely no sympathy, understanding or respect for the attitudes that caused them to never try in the first place! The decline in US standing in the world is almost certainly a result of this.

Like jcees, I was raised by expat farmers. My parents and grandparents were the type of people who never, ever let a little thing like not having done something before stop them from doing it. If it was a task they lacked skills for, then they learned what was necessary and then did it! I learned from my mother at a very early age how to do research in a library for this very reason. Once all Americans used to be like this; now Americans have truned into a bunch of whiners who, when confronted with a task outside of their experience, immediately hire someone else to do it or simply do without. I firmly believe that a lot of that is due to a lack of faith in themselves – our culture raises people to believe that only “experts” are capable of understanding or doing certain things; that some things are beyond the average mind to understand, so don’t bother, just accept it.

Such attitudes are worthy of every bit of contempt and name-calling we can heap on them.

Sorry for the rant – I’ll yield the soapbox now.

—“Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!”

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

I have a question, miles125. Do you make your own shirts, pants, tools or go out and hunt and farm all your own food? If the answer is no, than why not? The answer you give, I’m willing to bet anything, is the answer some will give to the question of fixing things themselves. You don’t know how, you don’t have time, you don’t have the resorces, I can go on for ever.

-- Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didin't do then by the ones you did. - Mark Twain

If there were no people to call the repairman or the hire a husband or the odd jobs people there would be a few less people employed in this world.

-- Fred.... Poconos, PA ---- Chairwright in the making ----

Frugality is what drives most of us to attempt to fix/make things, but a person must first have an interest in it. I used to make all my own clothes and many of my sisters’ and mother’s, even my dad’s shirts, but over the years I have found that I’d rather spend my time in the workshop and buy my clothes at St. Vincent’s or Goodwill and save even more.

Years ago I decided that I wanted to do my own oil changes and asked my dad to teach me. At the time it cost about $12 for an oil change. After I saw what Dad went through to change the oil, I decided that it wasn’t worth the $5 of labor I would save. I still don’t change my own oil. I consider it a luxury in which I’m willing to indulge myself to have someone do it for me.

We all have different interests and talents (well, maybe not us LumberJocks :>), but the rest of the world), so we can’t expect everyone to fit the same mold. Yes, it would be nice if the world practiced good financial stewardshilp but, in reality, that just isn’t happening.

I don’t particularly like mechanical work but I have, on multiple occasions, replaced parts on my tablesaw and planer because I’d rather not spend the money for someone else to do it (and I might not be satisfied with their work). I just took the armrest apart in my car to repair the seat memory. I didn’t want to pay to have it fixed.

I’d rather spend my time reading a how-to manual than waste my time watching some sports guy making millions of dollars acting like an idiot, but that’s MY opinion. Others would think my life is boring. I’d rather stay home and freeze and can my fruits, vegetables, fish and venison for the wonderful meals I can make, while others would prefer to travel the world, experiencing the joys of lost luggage, bacterial infections, dysentery, jet lag, and terrorists. Who am I to say their way isn’t better? It’s just not my way.

Anyone can potentially do anything IF he has a desire to do it. Without that drive (whether it is financial or just self-satisfaction or whatever), a person isn’t likely to try something with which he is unfamiliar. When families ceased being two-parent families with time spent together instead of running to one activity or another, much of this mindset ceased to be passed on to the next generation. Being the technologically advanced society that we are has more people interested in learning to text message rather than repair . . . and with a very large percentage of our things “made in China,” they are probably better off being thrown away than repaired anyway! :>)

-- "But godliness with contentment is great gain." 1 Timothy 6:6

Being a vocational/shop instructor I am also offended by the comment of referring to construction as putting sticks together. Not to insult anyone on this site, but I would be almost willing to bet that most on this site could not put a entire house together from dirt to carpet and pass every inspection required by local codes. I would also really bet that most couldn’t start tomorrow and make a profit. I had that attitude that anyone can swing a hammer until I took vocational construction classes in high school. Yes anyone can swing a hammer and follow directions, in my opinion that is proof of all the illegals working in the construction industry today. It takes knowledge to get the job done right and safely. You don’t see Jed from the beverly hillbillies running/owning the company, he is just nailing a 2×4 where the X is on the another 2×4.

I have taught every aspect of home building and done every aspect. There are some areas that you have to be licensed or certified in as someone already pointed out. That doesn’t mean I can’t do them, it means hiring it out is cheaper than paying the fine.

I also hired out my drywall and plumbing in my basement. It was lack of desire, not knowledge. I have drywalled several homes and basement and it isn’t worth the time when I only do it occasionally to be efficient. I don’t have all the tools required for either profession.

I have an in-law that is a 6 digit professional, with 3 kids. He doesn’t have time to think with all the activities going on in his every day life. It is quicker and easier than interrupting a daily routine sometimes to make a phone call. Occasionally you get the kink in the hose problem, but most of the time it is more involved.

Word to the wise to all LJ’s: Be very careful when you make a blanket statement. Opinions are okay, just make that clear. Otherwise I hope you like the taste of leather. There are plenty of experts on this site in specific areas that will be the first to shove that boot in the mouth for you.

Wow, some of these comments are really mean-spirited! Are we really saying that anyone who makes different choices than we would about their time or resources, must either be stupid or lazy?

-- http://www.north40custom.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

maybe it’s not lazy but having other priorities.
it’s really easy to sew clothing, bake bread, grow and preserve vegetables, cook a fast-food or high class meal but many of us choose to pay to have these tasks done.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I concede. I learned to do things for myself because I’m cheap. More precisely, I do plumbing, electrical, drywall, construction, etc on my home projects for the following reasons:
1. I enjoy the activities
2. I can do the work on my own terms (cough, cough, wifey’s directions)
3. I work a lot CHEAPER than professional tradesmen
4. It’s how I was raised. My father was a Master Carpenter, millwright, licensed air craft mechanic and overall jack of all trades.

By the way, with respect to ‘just putting sticks together’, my dad taught me the practical lessons of geometry, trigonometry and physics through building things. I encourage us all to respect the skills and knowledge of all our tradespersons, hire those we can afford to hire, or otherwise, perform those tasks we can do, want to do or need to do.

-- I love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

I think it was missinterpretated what I said about vocational schools. My implication was to simply say that these schools can and do teach people that have trouble learning. The basic princible of these schools is to teach skills necessary to join the work force. In which they do, and I don’t really care who the general puplic is that they teach because that’s a different subject all together.
Putting sticks together is pretty much construction with the exception of a few trades like foundations, electrical, plumbing, etc. Why do you think they call some structures “stick framing”. We are all putting sticks together in a sense. Maybe if I said boards and sheet goods you’d be happy. You really can’t start bringing in major electrical, major plumbing, etc into this conversation. There are very few people that will actually wire or plumb their entire house. We were talking about “fixes” like unclogging a drain or changing light bulbs. It amazes me that so many people can’t even change a tire or their oil. What if AAA couldn’t make it to where you were out in the middle of freakin nowhere and you couldn’t change your tire. Are you going to die out there because you didn’t want to take an opportunity to learn? The basics of life should be taught to everyone no matter how smart you are.

To be blunt, anyone can do the things we do, they would rather do other things like watch tv. I don’t want them to do anything regardless, because just like frank stated, that is our bread and butter.
I apologize if I hurt anyones feelings, and I offer my kerchief to you.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

It doesn’t matter how something is cut. You can be a rocket scientist and figure out some wacko design only you can dream up. After you cut your pieces and put them together to make your project, in the end you are putting sticks together. You can’t think of it as just sticks, it could be any medium.

I also want to throw in there that if you can do it, know how to do it, but won’t do it, is different then the topic which is not knowing how and not caring how to do it. I have learned a lot of things over the years, like how to install tile. I can do it, but it’s not my trade so I won’t.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

You could do everything yourself but then you would become a hermit and probablly a hermaphodite to boot!;-)

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

an interesting discussion
and I think it will be even more important as the cost of things becomes higher.. more people will be doing more by themselves / for themselves.
and the diy-teachers will be in high demand!

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I work on the theory if you do it yourself & botch it up you can stilll fix it for less than what it would cost to get in a professional. It does not always work but on average I have picked up a lot of skills & saved a lot of money that way. Although, when it comes to electricity that is a different story.

-- Grumpy - "Always look on the bright side of life"- Monty Python

I could totally be a homesteader, but I’m glad I don’t have to be one. Oftentimes I wish I had fewer interests. Between work and family life, it’s hard enough to fit in all the cooking, cleaning (who am I kidding?), baking, gardening, woodworking, home renovation (by choice, as well as when outside forces dictate), reading, etc… and it’s only going to get harder as my little one gets older.
Despite all the attentions for my time and money, sometimes its cheaper, easier and quicker to do it myself, (I once repaired the fan in the freezer with a cork, while a replacement the repairman broke was on order) sometimes its well worth paying someone else to do something. Ever hire a babysitter not so you could go out to the movies, but get some quality shop time, or prep and paint the house?

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Put down soap box, step up….......

kolwdwrkr- you said “My implication was to simply say that these schools can and do teach people that have trouble learning. The basic princible of these schools is to teach skills necessary to join the work force. In which they do,...............”

Again you generalize. The vocational student has NO trouble learning. True, they are tactile (hands on) learners but then again- so are brain surgeons. Also- every institution’s principle, whether vocational school, high school, trade school and college, is to teach the necessary skills to join the workforce. It may interest you to know that approximately 50% of vocational students go on to higher education and about 45% go directly into the workforce. Not bad for a group of “educationally impaired” students.

Stepping down, for now.

Lew

Lew, I appologize. I guess I did generalize. I guess I was thinking more about people (high school mostly) that have to go to these schools because they can’t stay in a public school. I know one person in particular that had to go to one because he did drugs and didn’t want to learn and stay in school. His option was to go to vocational school. He got his diploma and couldn’t even read. I realize that I was wrong in my train of thought.
I think I got off the topic by introducing this into the topic to begin with. I re-read what I wrote and was to stupid to think about why I was under attack. My girlfriend pointed me into a new direction.

Most people have the option to learn how to do things. They can go to the library and get books, go to the vocational schools or community colleges, or just watch DIY. The point I am trying to get across is that most of this stuff is very easy to do and learn, and it’s no different for the general public to learn then it is for us. We teach monkeys sign language for heavens sake. If a monkey can learn sign language a human can learn how to twist some wires or flux and solder some pipe. It’s a matter of wanting to, and unfortunately, nobody wants to. Everyone needs to calm down about saying there’s no time either. There is time, you just have to turn off the tv or computer and do it. But, the interests of the general public, and I’m no exception, isn’t doing things around the house, it’s sitting in front of the computer upsetting people people like Lew with stupid meaningless converstaion and watching tv. And yes, I do both at the same time.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

An interesting thread. I live in a very cosmopolitan neighbourhood. Facing the street, on my right live an Asian couple…he’s Vietnamese, she is Chinese. Next door to them live a couple, he is caucasion she is Philipino.On my right live a couple from India.Directly across the street is a Caucasion widow & two children. Next to her on one side iare a Packistani couple, & the mix continues up &down the street. The thing that is predominate is that the Asian origin people always hire someone to do repairs & one of the reason they do so is that high density populations are also high unemployment & if they did the work they believe that they are doing someone out of a job & everyone needs to be able to somehow put food on their families table. The East Indian couple next door to us is a heavy duty mechanic so he is no fool. His wife backed the SUV into their garage overhead door & put a bow in it. Every day he looked like Spiderman up tight to the door to pull it down to close it. I finally went over with some straight 2×4’s & screw clamps & with his help we sprung the door back straight so that it opened & closed properly.
Next day the doorbell rings & when I answer it he hands me a beautiful watermelon as a thank you.
None of the Asian people are interested in their yards. They keep them neat…but that is all. Weeding is not high on the list nor is watering during hot weather despite their lawns turning brown. Often they contract out fertilizing & mowing during the summer & snow shovelling during winter.
Now then I do all those activities…..you tell me who is the smart one or not.
In observing these folks I think it is not so much a question as to smarts or not but more of a mind set developed growing up within their respective cultures.

Lee

-- Lee

And to all the people that actually train monkeys, I wasn’t implying that these are stupid animals at all, I am sure that they are very intelligent creatures. Please don’t get offended.

Dig, dig, dig…....................Please fill the hole I’ve dug in after I crawl in, LOL

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

Just the other day I saw the young man who bought my parents house. He expressed his apparent inability to make simple plumbing repairs that worked properly. It reminded me of a couple of things I learned when training for instructor duty in the Navy. This man’s father is a Col. in the Army. He did not teach the basic repair skills his son now needs. The young man has not been motivated to learn these skills and train himself. His hobby is building racecars so he possesses some level of mechanical skill. He has convinced himself he could not make plumbing repairs. He explained to me he loves woodworking but cannot afford the tools just now. I replied, a handsaw and hammer are all he needed to get started and the rest comes with time…but I digress.

The point is, baring physical limitations; anyone can learn to do anything if they possess desire, motivation, aptitude and interest. I could become a brain surgeon, but it might take the rest of my life to complete the schooling. None of us is ideally suited for every type of work. Often we avoid things that we are not comfortable in doing or in which we lack experience and training. It does not mean any one of us is book smart and lack common since or the reverse. We all possess some of both (in most cases).

In my own experience, I have learned I have to hire things out, because I am not going to live to be 500 and cannot be three places at once.

I suspect what we all encounter is really a lack of interest and motivation to take on the job and do the necessary research before the work begins. All this results in the cries for help and calls for work that provides of us with income.

-- Terry Roswell, L.A. (Lower Alabama) "Life is what happens to you when you are making other plans."

I’m relatively self taught when it comes to woodworking. One thing I”M really self taught is shop building. I had zero knowledge about how to build a structure, but in the last year and a half I’ve learned a ton about that. Why? I needed a shop, and ‘had the tools’. I’ve enjoyed most of the process, but there were limits which I reached, and I had to farm out the roofing. My wife recently said’ when we move to viginia, are you going to do all of this again? (meaning build a building from scratch). I said ‘some of it, sure, but I’ll hire out the high work’. I now know what I cannot do, but I learned by Trying it.

-- Ned - 2B1ASK1 http://nedswoodshop.blogspot.com

After proofreading a lengthy well thought out and written reply, I deleted it. This was the jist of it:

It’s premise was the people on this forum are very good at using tools to make and fix or improve stuff. Some are unable to understand why everyone isn’t like them, running around making and fixing stuff.

Another forum I’m a member of is for musicians. Similar topic. They are very good at playing musical instruments, thats there tool. Some can’t comprehend why so many people can’t even play “Happy Birthday”, or “Row,Row, Row Your Boat”. on any instrument except a kazoo. There are only 12 “notes” in the universe and neither of these make use of all 12. “Talking about music is like dancing to Architecture”

My good friend is a financial adviser. He is very good at it and is very rich. I am not rich, but because of his advice, I am comfortable and secure. He is very good at buying some things. While teaching myself to be good at buying my investment in a typewriter and vcr repair shop failed to reach desired goals. He is even better at not buying other things. I would not want to play a duet, nor shingle a house with him. Because of my help he has 100+yr.-old, t&g, oak, hardwood floorboards in his office, several are up to 15’ long, salvage from an abandoned. I can’t understand what they expect me to do if my VCR breaks.

-- Ciao, gth.

gustthehonky you hit the nail on that one – and thats what it’s all about, some people can do certain things, other might not … so what?

be thankful for what YOU can do, and don’t point fingers at others that can’t do the same – it’s pointless.

EEngineer the US was founded long ago, and times have changed – people have changed – there are way too many aspects in life these days than there used to be then, and you cannot expect everyone to share the same expertise. yes , I do think I can fix the faucet in my own home – but sometimes I’d rather spend that time with my wife and daughter – so I’ll call the plumber to crawl under the sink and get all wet and messy – while I’ll be busy watching my daughter smile. other people have different priorities and it doesnt make them any less of a good person that the next one.

Yes – I do find it sometimes unusual that people are not able to do what I consider “simple” things – but It doesn’t make them “stupid” nor “lazy” nor anything of that sort… thats all that I’m saying.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

and….
it is important to remember that “if you want to … then it is worth trying. Don’t just say “I can’t”...
how many people don’t even try? I guess maybe that’s one the underlying thoughts behind the original post.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

PurpLev - welll, maybe I overstated the case a little, but…

Sure, I hire people to do things, also. Sometimes it is the lack of tools (I can spend 3 days doing something on my car with ramps that a garage could do in 1 hour with a lift and proper tools), there are even things that I cannot do (drywall mudding is a big example – I can hang it but I cannot mud!) but there is not one thing that I ever felt was beyond my capability and very darned few that I didn’t at least try. Not all of that is being cheap, either. I have had far too many “experts” or “professionals” do such a lousy job that I was forced to learn how to redo it right. So I had to pay to have it done and then spend my time to get it done right!

My point was, and still is, that many people do not try to do these things for any of the reasons you mentioned but, as Miles125 mentioned in the original post, they feel intimidated or think such tasks require a mysterious gene they are sure they lack. Our school systems reinforce this kind of attitude; when I went to school, a certain amount of shop class was mandatory for graduation – now very few schools even have a wood or metal shop anymore. Just a little further and you have less emphasis on math because “it is just too hard for some people to learn”. A little further than that and you have less emphasis on reading/writing skills because “it is just too hard for some people to learn how to read/write”.

I do find it sometimes unusual that people are not able to do what I consider “simple” things – but It doesn’t make them “stupid” nor “lazy” nor anything of that sort… nope, and as I wrote above, it may not even be their fault. But we all pay the price; instead of “can-do” attitude, what is more prevalent today is “no, I can’t!”

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

I’m with you Miss Debbie.

-- Grumpy - "Always look on the bright side of life"- Monty Python

Everyone is an expert at something….

I bet if you tallied up all the things you could do reasonably well, it would pale in comparison to the things you wish you could do. I jokingly claim that most of the people around here (the town I live in) have more dollars than sence, and thankfully so. The extra money I earn dealing with their issues, makes all the difference.

Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.