Changed the headline, now we are awake!
I’m entering a minefield, only politics can be more dangerous than this…
I’ll put up some statements and want to see the reactions, to hear outburst, anger, agreements, and disagreements, but please try and argue why you think as you do!
Why do I find this interesting? Because it’s discussions I see again and again on the web and here at LJ, and even find myself getting caught up in from time to time, partly because Napoleon and I have completely different views on this, and like to tease each other with these different passions (here are a example).
Vintage (Stanley, but also in general);
Old crap, for people who can’t afford new / the new are more crappy and the price the same
For people who can’t let go of the past / they are full of charm and patina.
History interested nerds / just a tool like a new.
Collectors with too much time or money / a way to save money to get a good tool at a fair price.
Can’t be used, since it’s too bad a quality / excellent quality fully as good as or better than the newer.
Just Stanley copies made from brass to be expensive / better castings design is not a copy.
For people who want to be exclusive by spending money / a good investment since bronze need no maintaining (bronze models).
People who love the past, but can’t stand it looks old / nothing to do with old or new just the quality.
Collector’s items for hobby woodworkers that used to be IT millionaires / long tome investment for the serious professional woodworkers.
Is not actually better than an old Stanley in same model / the LN are better made than old Stanley’s.
New bees that want to make something simple look fancy / they understood what the task is and made a tool that fit this, careless of the design.
Nothing new, just new design / the design are not important it’s all invention.
For space nerds that watched too many Star Wars movies / are actually very beautiful, just different from Stanley copies.
It’s not better than others, just fancier / they work better due to the improvements in design.
A excuse to collect, to buy the whole series / simply just better made.
Old English chisels
A collector’s wet dream a user’s night mare / the quality are not found the same today.
The handles suck since the shape is too simple / the handles are so simple due to yeas of use, others are too complex and the curves give just blisters.
The need to be sharpened all the time / are easier to sharpen and so you tend to have a sharp chisel more.
They are impossible to sharpen when the metal is so hard / it’s worth the effort since it stays sharp longer.
They have no life look boring in the drawer / they are beautiful since the parts shine and the friction are less.
The handles can’t be made of plastics / its logic to use new materials on new products.
It’s important to get as hard steel as possible / it’ important to match the steel with your temperament and the task.
New chisels must look new / new chisels can be a copy of old design (Stanley, Marbles).
You can’t be sure of the quality in new handmade tools / the new handmade are better than the machine made.
English – American – European Tools (I know England are EU);
The English could never make the same quality of metal planes as the Americans, except from the older infill’s (Record, Acorn and such). / the English are the same or better.
The English steel was not the same quality as the American / the English steel was better.
The European metal planes that can be used were made by Kunz in Germany, anything else sucks (Darex others). / the European planes were the same standard or better just not as elegant.
The old English chisels are not worth buying, since the quality of even the best toolmakers were so much different that no one can know what they buy / most of the old are better than the new but yes there can be a bad boy in the bunch.
The new English chisels are not worth buying, since they can’t control the metal hardness, so sometimes you get steel sometimes butter / the new English chisels have a quality control that does check this, and so the quality are the same or better.
I do not know what is the truth, I try to explore and make my own judgments always, listen what my heart tells me, and what the shaves looks and feel like, so I try not to color the debate, just thought it could be interesting.
Perhaps this can kick start the debate:
This was what got me started on this blog.
This post because it started me to try and explain what I meant:
This post where there were so much love for the old plane in the comments:
You don’t need to comment on all, just the things that interest you, you know about, or provokes you, I will not judge anyone, but since this is a sensitive subject, I will ask all to keep a nice tone and to respect that there can be different views to the same subject.
Best thoughts from my provo side,
-- MAD F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.