God and woodworking

I would prefer to keep this site belief neutral.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I completely agree with Todd on this one. There are plenty of other places that you can talk on these matters.

It’s be great to avoid political and religious topics at LJ.com completely. Past discussions prove this. I’m thinking about adding this to the posting rules.

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Martin_Sojka/1357216976

I don’t mind and expression of belief or inspiration from a religious perspective. It gives us a little insight into the individuals we’re talking with. However, I don’t think this is the place for sermons.

-- If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a darn fool about it.

Each time somebody tries to push their religious views on me on a woodworking or similar forum I place them gently on my ignore list.
I am supportive of all religions and I endorse the right to believe whatever you may wish.

Just keep it to yourself here.

I have refrained from commenting for several months now but it would seem that some of you lack the manners necessary to respect the others in this community.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I’m a Christian, but I can see what the guys are talking about. On the one hand, this is your own personal blogspace. On the other hand, it’s part of a community site and people don’t have a choice about whether or not to see your entry on the home page (until it gets bumped by newer entries, that is).

So my advice for you? Play it “safe”. Talk more openly about your faith on your private website. On LumberJocks, I don’t think people mind hearing people talk about their faith (look at many signature lines and you’ll see Bible verses), but they would rather this be a community focused directly on woodworking. Incorporate your faith into your woodworking posts, and you’ll most likely not find any objections.

Just my $0.02. Appreciate you, brother!

-- Eric at http://adventuresinwoodworking.com

Maybe your beliefs could be posted on your intro page?

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

Martin, I do wish you would add ‘Avoid political and religious topics’ to the posting rules. If it takes a vote, I vote yes.

-- Berta in NC

I somewhat agree. I’m am Christian to begin with (an alter server too) and i don’t want this site turning into a place where people are preaching everyday but from what I saw Chris is just answering the question “I don’t know if I could stand people watching everything I do….You’d have to be on your best behavior“ in his own way and in what he believes. I don’t think there is a problem with this or saying that God has an influence on your woodworking but I do also think that I don’t want to have to look at every post and have someone trying to shove religion in my face. but from what I see in this blog Chris is just answering what he thinks of the question “I don’t know if I could stand people watching everything I do….You’d have to be on your best behavior“. Not trying to fling religion in our faces and trying to convert us. Just my though on the issue.

Temontim, thanks for the advice. I’ll try putting something about me on by personal page. I don’t mean to push religion. That is not how people come to Christ. I know somethimes people will put their thoughts iin their blog.

-- Check out the live video stream from our shop. http://wwbeds.com

im glad martin made his post on this . i see a lot of tag lines with scriptures on them ,personally i really dont have a problem with that . i think its a way for the christians among us to identify each other and pm each other with comments concerning thier faith if they want . my tag probably causes some folks an unwelcome visual ! or other may think im professing my self the lead dog . in fact what im professing is to know exactly what the scenery is when your not ! lol have a nice day !

-- if you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes

No religion or politics.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

I believe LJ has grown this way because of the large body of woodworking related discussions. Who here doesn’t have strong opinions one way or the other? I don’t know what would ensue if we all expressed our strongly held beliefs and philosophy of how we live. This site might become a forum for discussions less to do with woodworking and more to debate faith and life styles.

OTOH, I am not for limiting one’s right to express one’s thoughts. This is after all your blog.

-- Praki, Aspiring Woodworker

I’m a practicing Christian too and while I don’t see anything wrong with a passing mention of belief or the wonders of our Lord in a post, the site is not the place for a sermonizing or witnessing. I agree with the majority opinion above.

-- North Texas

I tend to try and follow the Sammy Kershaw song and not talk about….....Politics, Religion, and Her.

-- Adrian ..... The 11th Commandment...."Thou Shalt Not Buy A Wobble Dado"

I agree with Martin. Although I am guilty of expressing my belief in God all the time, in a comment passing, such as God Bless you. But I don’t think that’s offensive. Do you people?

-- Mike. Profisher50@yahoo.com

One of the most dangerous parts of hanging around woodworkers is you find out that they are THINKING people. That can be the sword that cuts both ways! Seriously, it’s very hard NOT to think deeply about such things as we recognize (from my perspective) the origin, and therefore the sanctity of that raw material with which we work.
I’ll kick it up a notch—I am a Christian, seminary-educated pastor. In my experience, as soon as people discover that fact about me, their behavior toward me changes—sometimes barely, sometimes in huge amounts (and sometimes unpleasantly, I’m sorry to say.) My point is that I would simply hate to see people avoiding Chris – or any other woodworker—because they brand him “preachy.” No one is disputing the content of your post, Chris, in fact most of us are resonating with it. It may simply be the strength of the statement. The passion you have is commendable; unbridled passion gets you in trouble or loses your audience. No judgement here: just offering food for thought.

-- There's no tool like an old tool...

Many LJ’s are believers and it is obvious without them preaching or making an attempt to proselytize. I appreciate and respect that.

I appreciate the diverse community from around the world here at LJ and the great common ground that we share.

In many ways I think that it brings us closer as human beings. It helps us to understand that no matter where we are from, what language we speak, what color our skin, or belief that we hold dear to us, we are all the same.

Sadly, politics and religion often sparks heated debates and creates sharp divisions. This is the reason that I lean toward a very moderate expression of faith and politics.

I hope that my actions speak for themselves.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I agree with Martin. I respect the passion of other people’s religious beliefs, but I come here to read about woodworking.

—Lakey

-- "No Board Left Behind"

Well said Todd. I agree. mike

-- Mike. Profisher50@yahoo.com

I too am a practicing Christian and very active in my church (see my latest project). I would hate to see the website become a religious or political forum, but on the other hand I wouldn’t want to discourage someone from expressing themselves. There is no rule that says you must read every blog or posting.

-- Todd, Richfield MN

I have deep respect for your faith and beliefs, but feel this is not the place for a display or lecture in reference to religion.

I would like to second the others who feel that this post is an over-extension of “appropriately” displaying your personal beliefs on a community website… I can’t help but think how bored or put off people would be if you began filling blog posts with the intricacies of hand-cut Japanese compound joinery techniques in a religious forum… While enlightening, it does not serve the greater focus of the community… It distracts people from the general topic of learning they have joined this community for…

If cross-interest posting were something of mass appeal I would imagine Martin wouldn’t have given specific care and attention to the sister sites to LJ…(GardenTenders and HomeRefurbers) and rather created one site… i.e. GeneralInterestJocks.com or the like…

Just my 2¢

-- Looking for free wood working plans? Visit us at www.AwlFreePlans.com

Hi Chris, amen and amen – I agree 100% with what you are saying. I am a Christian and hope most anyone who knows me knows it.

This is a very tough call. This is a ‘community’ and as such we members/cyber-residents have different beliefs. However, this is a ‘woodworking community’ and folks come here for woodworking. I’ve seen faith expressions here – a simple “God Bless” in closing or a comment about God or Jesus – I’ve done so and hopefully will be able to continue doing so.

I may not agree with a post from someone of another faith sharing their path to salvalation or righteousness and as soon as I realized that’s wha I was reading and click away. I get almost as worked up over politics.

I’ll stay firmly on the fence on this one, too tough for me to call. Martin’s job sure is a tough one!

God bless! ;-)

-- Tim D. - Woodstock, GA

I think that I wouldn’t have posted as strongly of a scripture filled post as Chris as I would probably think maybe that was a little too much out of the context of LJ, although he really was answering the question of how could he stand everyone watching him. On the other hand I am surprised by the strong negative reaction to it as well. I think it is certainly not a good idea to post a sermon every day on a site like this, but on the other hand I can readily skip right past something if I don’t care for it. Someone said this site should be belief neutral. Personally I don’t think it is possible for anything to be belief neutral. Whatever we truly believe impacts absolutely everything we do. As a believer myself I have been encouraged by scripture to do everything I do in the name of Christ.

Admittedly, if someone posted a very long post here on LJ about another faith, I would find that odd and likely skip it as I wouldn’t be interested. But what if it would help me understand the work they were showing. What if it were something they had built for their mosque or buddhist temple? Maybe the carvings would make no sense to me without some religious background to clarify. Same could be true for politics. Let’s say I made a gift for a local “cause” (fear giving an example for fear of creating another reaction) and explained some of why I had done that. Maybe it was for a fundraiser. Is that political and thus forbidden? Esp. if it “political” statement was pertinent to what the piece was about or how I came to make it. If I carved a “big stick” for Teddy Roosevelt for instance if this were when he was president.

I think for me the rub is would a person be constantly posting political or religious topics or primarily woodworking ones? If it is primarily woodworking, I would tend to say chill a bit and ignore the rest.

Just some more thoughts : )

-- Kevin, Blue Springs, MO

from what I’ve read i agree with Kevin. Its similar to what i said earlier. i don’t want to have someone trying to convert me or writing a long religious blog every day. but Chris was answering the question that he was asked. That is his answer and that is what he believes. I think that it is fine. Even other religions I would be fine with just i don’t want someone trying to convert me or shoving something in my face everyday. In this context i am totaly okay with it.

Teenagewoodworker, I would give you about a 49% for content and and 25% for spelling.
I would take 10% off each category for raising this topic again as it was put to bed a couple of days ago.

“Sometimes is better to remain silent and be thought a fool.”

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I’ve been watching the responses to Chris’ blog with a great deal of interest. What I see in these responses is what you generally see in any venue when a deeply personal and emotionally charged subject is broached, i.e. opinions that cover the spectrum from hot to cold (and even luke warm). What I don’t see, to every LJer’s credit, are flaming retorts and charred bodies lying around. To me that speaks volumes of good things about the LJ community.

Having said that, I’m going to throw my 2¢ into the mix. First, I agree with Kevin’s statement, “Whatever we truly believe impacts absolutely everything we do.” so, to be fair, I will disclose that I am a Christian too.

I believe, like Kevin and teenagewoodworker and other responders that Chris was answering a question. I also believe that the question was answered by the end of the first paragraph. In my humble opinon his Christian witness was truly the answer to the question and I, personally, appreciated what he had to say. But, as often happens to all of us when we start talking about something we are passionate about, he (again, IMHO) went a tad over the top for a blog on this forum.

I think it would be interesting to compare these responses to the ones Chris would have gotten if he had only written the first paragraph and the closing sentence. As they say, “It is what it is” and I think the end result of these ‘conversations’ will be a stronger LJ community.

-- Steve - "Dang, no matter how many times I run it through the planner it's still too thin!"

Sorry ‘bout that Bob, you probably raise a good point about the topic being put to bed already. I’ve been offline for a couple of days and was somewhat inspired by Kevin’s response. In fairness, however, I should, using your math, devalue my answer from 2¢ to, hmm, maybe 1.8¢? :)

-- Steve - "Dang, no matter how many times I run it through the planner it's still too thin!"

-- if you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes

Thats funny , good one mrtrim

-- John in Cranbrook http://www.extremebirdhouse.com ....http://community.webshots.com/user/cranbrook2

I dunno, first there was a whirring sound and then there was this bright red light that seemed to burn into my brain, and now…NOW…I…seem…to…have…forgotten…my…name…......

Hello, is anyone there???

-- Steve - "Dang, no matter how many times I run it through the planner it's still too thin!"