Joinery for the Beginner

You know Todd, you are exactly right. I’ve been building projects and they take weeks instead of days, and allot of it is because I stress too much on the joinery. I have a dovetail jig, a dado blade, and all the router bits for cutting rabbits and such, yet I still don’t even have a “simple” kreg pocket hole jig system or a biscuit cutter. I think it is time I started to re-think some of my project ideas and find ways to incorporate some time saving methods such as these. Thanks for the blog!

-- Sgt_Lobo -- Montgomery, AL

Happy to see a profession tell it like it is. Fine woodworking does include these two methods of joinery, and as you have stated, the time saved can be used to create sublimely designed cabinet work that is far and away more than clunky and square. Set yourself free – great title for the closing paragraph. Thanks, Todd.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Sgt Lobo – I had to try and share this because many starting out don’t realize that these are very valid forms of joinery.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Thats a nice cabinet Todd, and a perfect example of “production” case work and joinery. Reminds me of the old days back in the cabinet shop! Pocket holes and biscuits aren’t cheating, the are valid and often used joinery methods. Throw some wacky wood into the mix, for another not too well known trade secret for working curves! We used pocket screws so much we had a production pneumatic pocket hole driller. Great post!

-- Women love me.....trees fear me

I sometimes repair things like rotted bottom rails on doors and window sash. An older guy i used to work with questioned me whether screws and glue were sufficient for this application instead of using wood dowels.

I told him i was using dowels. They were just of the more durable threaded, galvanised steel variety!

So far no callbacks!

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

Well said thanks for the advice and conformation. Now if I can get my customer (wife) to agree <grin> I’ll be all set for buying a pocket screw kit. I already talked her into letting me get a new biscuits jointer. Has anyone ever done a real stress test that was posted on the net? I am sure someone has, does anyone have a link to it?

-- "so much to learn and so little time"..

only stress test I’ve seen is the one conducted by DowelMax

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

oh and then there is the stress test on dovetails conducted by Bob#2 at the woodshow he and Mot attended.. (don’t know the link off-hand)

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

todd thank you ! youve done it again ! this blog is exactly why i consider you one of my favorite lunber jocks.
i bow with humility, great admiration and respect to those who use traditional joinery. however i cannot afford to walk that path with them . my work is my only source of income and im under the gun to keep costs realistic, especially the past year . i take comfort in knowing im not alone on my path. thanks again ! by the way i buy pocket screws in boxes that i dont always feel up to carring to my truck !

-- if you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes

Todd, I have to agree on the use of pocket screws and biscuits. In the past I’ve tried to use more traditional joinery and I’ve burned through more good wood due to mistakes than I like to think about. For carcass and faceframe construction where the joint isn’t emphasized I’ll probably just go ahead and go with the pocket screws or biscuits from now on. Even a simple dado to attach a faceframe to a carcass requires much more work and doesn’t look any better or provide much if any more strength. You just here so many traditionalists rail against non-traditional joinery (the anti-Norm movement) you start to think there’s something wrong with it. However, almost all the professional finish carpenters I’ve come across use pocket screws and such whenever possible, and if it’s good enough for professional work it should be good enough for my projects around the house.

I’ve got one of those Porta-Cable production pocket screw set ups that I use every day. Traditional joinery is great when I get to do Zen and woodworking…but most days I just get to do sweat, swear, and hope i get the check deposited in time woodworking.

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

dennis im jealouse !! i been wanting one of the production set ups for a while. business has been very bad this year around where i live or i would have bought one . if you grt time pm me with the pros and cons and what you think of it thx

-- if you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes

Great blog, Todd. Very good points. I’ve seen some amazing projects that are made with biscuits and pocket screws. Our LJ friend, David, is affectionately nicknamed, Kreg by his loved ones.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Gwurst, you said it perfectly..when your doing carcass or face frame joinery where the joint isn’t emphasized, then biscuits or pocket screws are the way to go. My old boss at the cabinet shop turned me onto pocket screws and I am a firm believer! I have the Kreig Master set up, along with an extra deep square driver, a couple extra deep joint clamps and the 90 degree joint clamp. I always do my face frames with pocket screws and have done a few carcasses with pocket screws instead of rabbits/dados. The one complaint I have is if your doing carcass assembly the pieces have a tendency to move as the screw gets driven home. I just align and clamp everything, then drive the screws. Sometimes we would even drill a pilot hole with a long drill bit. The 90 degree clamp helps with that allot but you cant always use it.

-- Women love me.....trees fear me

Thanks for all the comments guys. I have not been able to get back into the site for several hours. I had the same problem for the last couple of days and I just read Martin’s post about the new server. Of course I couldn’t read it when I could not get on.

Anyway, just like any tool or woodworking method, there is a time an place to use it. On the modern furniture you can see the pocket holes if you take the drawers all the way out and look inside the box. But who does that very often? Will they see something cheap? Nope.

Gwurst is right on the money in understanding that the joinery is not the featured element and that the holding strength will be sufficient for these methods of joinery.

And Brad Nailor brings up some good points because every method has certain characteristics that you need to work with.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

By the way Brad Nailor, I looked at wiggle wood but opted to veneer a piece of plywood and kerf cut it. I didn’t figure enough in for the cost of the wiggle wood and it only took 20 minutes to cut all the kerfs. It worked out pretty good.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Todd, great writeup.

I agree that the well rounded woodworker needs to be familiar and comfortable with traditional as well as modern methods. I love learning about the old traditional joinery and incorporating it in to my most cared for projects. But I also had a great time using my biscuit jointer to quickly assemble the carcass of my new router table. It is nice to have a professional affirm the legitimacy of some of the so-called “cheater methods.”

-- Dust collectors suck.

Thanks Toddd for the info. I’ve used Pocket Screws on some jigs but have never used it in furniture. I guess I’ll need to give it a try.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

Blake, I think your comment summed it up nicely. I think that is a well balanced point of view.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Thanks for sharing Todd. The traditional methods are great but time does move on . Those people who come up with new inventive ideas do it for a reason. I use any method that is going to do the job effectively. I am a bit of a sucker for new tools. The Mortise & tennon system similar to a biscuit jointer is a great looking tool that I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on but a bit too expensive just yet.

-- Grumpy - "Always look on the bright side of life"- Monty Python

I’m with you on this one Todd. I love the traditional methods, but had I have no problems using pocket screws or other non-traditional methods. It’s the end product that counts with me. Thanks for a great blog.

-- Betsy - GO BUCKS!

I’m afraid I use pocket screws a lot and biscuits as well. We can only go as far as the customers pocket will allow. On cabinets I use pocket screws for the case and the face frame. My son-in-law bellyaches that he can’t rack the case to make it fit like he can the other cabinets. That’s good enough for me. Just get it done. I’m with Dennis on this one. Good post, Todd. this needed to be said.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

I often wonder why ALL screws havent gone to a square drive head. Whats the hold up?

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

If you think a square drive is good you should use a torx drive. They are very common in Montana but not where I am working in Ohio. The heads never break off and the driver never slips.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Todd – I’m with you on pocket-hole joinery. It’s not right for every joint, but it does a great job for a lot of joints. I also like to use them for glue-ups that are difficult to clamp – the screw is the clamp, and it just stays put after the glue has set.

I want to know who the idiot was that came up with combo head screws for phillips and square (square are “robertson” aren’t they?). The combos are almost impossible to turn with a phillips driver, and a square driver cams out of them like a phillips does normally, which defeats the big benefit of the square drive! Argh!

-- Coffee is best with a fine layer of sawdust on top. -- http://www.north40custom.com

As I understand the history of the philips screw, it was designed for mass production purposes and it was intended to cam out once it was driven home.

The square drives on the pocket screws works pretty well I don’t have a problem with those. But if I am using screws for construction or even cabinet install, the torx or star drive are the only acceptable screw as far as I am concerned. They cost more than phillips but they are definitely a better product and in the end they pay for themselves. A 3” – 6” screw can be driven all the way in smoothly with no slipping. That is sweet.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Grumpy – I have the Festool Domino you were referring to. It is a bit on the pricey side, but worth every penny.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I don’t make my living with woodworking, but my experience with my DowelMax has been pretty great. Once you get your head around it, mark the joints as instructed, and set the drill bit stop, the operation is simple and fast. The expansible dowels are strong, and the joints pull in neat and tight. The dowels are precisely placed in two dimensions, and that really helps in alignment and clamping up versus biscuits, which can slide lengthwise.

We used it a couple of weeks ago to build eleven router table fences for class. Drilled 220 holes in about an hour and a half, and every fence went together perfectly.

I haven’t used my DeWalt biscuit cutter since I got my DowelMax. Anybody want to buy it?

-- Furniture Medic- the prescription for damaged furniture

I feel like a johnny come lately on this one after 28 comments but I’ve got to jump in and agree with all of you. Pocket screws are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Although my first experience with a pocket hole jig didn’t go so well. I bought one of those generic bargain basement models. It didn’t clamp to the piece well, I could have hand cut dovetails in the time it took me to set it up, and being the genius that I am my set was usually wrong anyway. It didn’t take long for that thing to find the trash can. But now armed with the Kreg system, I’m a pocket hole drilling fool! The instructions are shaun proof, it clamps to the piece rock solid, and the jig is chock full of positive stops, guides, and all manner of set up aids. I don’t have experience with other pocket hole jigs, except for the junk I tossed in the garbage can, but I can say Kreg gets an A+ from me.

Another aspect of pocket screw joinery that I’ve found beneficial is that the work is realatively easy to disassemble to make repairs or correct mistakes. You just need to remember to repair the screw holes with some type of stuctural filler before you put it back together so you don’t weaken the joint.

-- I've cut that board three times and it's still too short!

OK. I’m in. I am a big proponent of biscuits, and have used a lot of them, buy never a pocket screw. Anybody have a recommendation of which Kreg kit to ask Santa for?

Steve

-- Stevethepeeve -- I'm no rocket surgeon

I have and highly recommend the Kreg Jig K3 master System. It costs about $150, I guess we should check the LJ store and see what it goes for.

It is a pretty complete system for most of us. It can be table or board mounted for solid use, or it may be used locally on the piece of wood if it does not clamp in the table mount very well. Mine also came with the Pocket Rocket included but I am not sure that they do anymore.

You may get a smaller kit called the K3 Standard Pack for $80.

I have some of the older generation Kreg jigs and the new ones expel the waste much better.

Here is Kreg Jig’s website http://kregjig.com/ You can check out all of their products and watch some instructional video.

Shaun – I am with you, I give the Kreg Jig an A+.

MyronW – I was wondering how the DowelMax works out. I would never get rid of the biscuit joiner now that you have it. As soon as it is gone you would have some abstract application for it that none of us can think of right now.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

OK guys this is great! I just checked out the LJ woodworking store and Martin has the best prices that I have seen on Kreg Jigs – and we are supporting LJ right? Membership has it’s privileges.

http://store.lumberjocks.com/shop.php?c=measuring&n=16426981&x=Jigs

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Steve – I’ve got the K3 master system too. The bench top base is what attracted me to the master over the standard pack. For me the system wouldn’t be complete without it, some of those set up aids that I was yammering about are part of the base. So without the base you miss out on them.

I would forward Todd’s link to Santa, that’s a good price for the system.

-- I've cut that board three times and it's still too short!

I use the K3 Master as well. I have it mounted on a board that mounts in the vise on my bench. I have a Makita plug in drill that goes with it . Great system and really quick. Yesterday I was looking over the floor model. Really neat but hard to justify when the system I have works almost as fast.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

Shaun and Thos. – I have done exactly the same thing by mounting the K3 system to a board. I use a 1/2’ Makita drill and it works pretty fast. One of the big improvements was the improved ability to eject the waste. This speeds things up and keeps the bit from getting too hot.

I have looked a couple of places and the LJ store is the best price going.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

couldn’t live without my DowelMax

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)