DANGER! Chinese Plywood

Thanks Tom.

I don’t know that I have ever seen any. How could I recognize it and tell it from standard birch, maple or oak plywood that is available at Lowe’s or Home Depot?

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

The properly layered and glued dry plywood have a flat uniform surface where the Chinese plywoods mostly resemble corn flakes.

Cheers
Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Other than it saying “Made in China” on the edge of the plywood, I’m not sure. You have to find a reputable vendor that knows what they are selling.

Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

around here, Colorado, it is stamped on the side, made in china. You find it in Home Depot and Lowes. I have used some. The surface veneers are super thin and there do tend to be voids. Otherwise it is pretty cheap for something hidden. I wouldn’t want to use it for anything that would show.

to be the devils advocate….............it doesnt have to be made in China to find steel buried under the surface that lies in wait for your table saw blade. I have seen it a hundred times, be the ply made in Canada, USA, Russia….....it can be low pressure PB, 80 gram paper up the 120 gram paper. Voids can also be found in just about any plywood, no matter where its made and just for the fun of it….........our own mfgs of pre-veneered plywood are starting to make the thickness of the veneer…....just a shade under “see right through it”..................having said that, perhaps the frequency of this happening tends to be greater on “off shore” plywoods.

The “real” Baltic Birch plywood has always been, still is, inconsistant in its thickness which can cause cursing if expensive hardware needs “consistany in thickness” to work “perfect”.

When I started in this trade/craft I remember local plywood having no more then one layer of veneer per 1/8” thickness of plywood. Sometimes it had 3 layers per 1/4”. The layers have gotten thicker…..sometimes each layer looks more like 1/4” and the specie has changed as well. They used throw Talipi overboard as “waste” on fishing boats but now its in every grocery store.

I am not a fan of “made in China” but not because it’s neccassarily cheap keeping in mind that close to 9 out of every appliance bought is made in China and I dont hear too many complain about their new fridge, but because they dont respect copy right laws, patents, human rights. I think every person should have the opportunity to have the same privilages that we have and sometimes take for granted, be it a car, fresh fruit, etc.,.............but blatant theft, disrespect for humanity….I dont like it.

yet the stores, big box stores, their parking lots are full of cars buying anything and everything and most of it isnt made on this side of the pond.

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

China is just drowning in bad press these days. I hope the Olympians decide to “brown bag” it.

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Vincent Van Gogh

You get what you pay for…

Although am I the only who thinks that those posts that are starting to appear regularly here look like a bittersweet combination between the patriotic conspiracy theory, hoaxes and spam?

Don’t get me wrong and no offense here but the picture is a little too much sensationalist for my taste and adds nothing to the information itself.

Are there any reliable documented sources for this “according to somebody-without-a-name…” things? I’m not saying it ain’t true but it has all the elements of the good ole hoaxes like the rat’s nail in the burger and so on…

On the other hand, I privilege quality over price and tend to avoid anything way too cheap, coming it from China or no matter where else.

-- Jojo, shopless in Kyoto · http://www.japanese-woodworking-tools.com/

Roman, that might explain why my new fridge has a ghost in it along with the third fan motor in two years. I should’ve upended that thing and checked for the Made In China, You Foolish Imperialist Dog! label. Next time, I’ll know better and have to drop a couple of grand more for a Made Somewhere Else label. Go figure.

always,
J.C.

P.S. And as for the Maoist plywood, I will never knowingly buy anymore of that crap! It’s just too heartrending to work with.

-- "Imagination is more important than knowledge" -- Albert Einstein

The last time I used any of the Chinese plywood it was 3/4” birch from HD. I used up a lot of glue (and time) squirting it into the edges and clamping to re-laminate the sheet. Never again.

-- Furniture Medic- the prescription for damaged furniture

I guess the wood guy from China that got on this site last year didn’t take what we told him to heart.

Lee

-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

Always good to be aware of potential problems.

-- Bruce from Central New York

i avoid it like the plague. I prefer domestic, Canadian, and even Brazilian ply. I hear that if you buy a full palle tof the Canadian ply you get a winter hat and an empty Molson’s can with it.

-- making sawdust....

You can vote with your wallet girls.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Jojo,
Out of respect for the Owl Hardwoods employee’s privacy I did not include his name, and I don’t particulary care for the less than honest inference you have made. I would not waste my time posting this if I did not feel my coments were not honest or of value to the LJ community. And yes, so far you are the only one who brought up “patriotic conspiracy theory, hoaxes and spam”.

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

Chinese concerns aside, I’m grateful to hear about this Owl Hardwoods place. I too live in Naperville, and I’ll have to go check them out! Any other Naperville area places worth mentioning?

-- "That which has in itself the greatest use, possesses the greatest beauty." - Unknown Shaker

I try to avoid it when possible.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

I just wish there was a way to avoid Chinese products, but they are everywhere.

-- Maplewood, MN

Will,
There are a few places in the Naperville area worth mentioning. Owl Hardwood has 3 locations. Wood World a little out of the way on Elston in Chicago, but I manage to make it there once or twice a year. There is the Woodcraft store in Woodridge, and this one always seems well stocked. I don’t think I can ever walk into there without buying something. And for the double whammy, Rockler moved a store into Berlands House of Tools in Lombard. There is so much to see (and buy) here, they should offer a lunch to customers. Hope this helps.

Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

I also bought some of that chinese 3/4” oak ply wood from HD the top skins are real thin, about thick tissue paper and in each batch of it I have had to reglue the center plys several places, it was about the same price as we used to pay for the Rossberg ? ply from canada, 8 years ago. cheap is not always best, usually cheap is cheap! but this is what they ( the company’s think we want cheaper cheaper cheaper so that is what they are going to try and sell us.)

-- Craig in Southwest Michigan

Don’t get so upset Tom, it wasn’t an accusation towards you or anybody in particular but it hasn’t been the only post of this kind lately and I was just wondering about the origins of the information.

Anyway, I’m glad to know that this was indeed a first hand source, this is the kind of credibility I was looking for. Sadly nowadays too many people post second and third hand stories on the internet and this isn’t always good.

I’m sorry if I offended you, it wasn’t my intention at all.

As I told you, I’m all for quality before price.

-- Jojo, shopless in Kyoto · http://www.japanese-woodworking-tools.com/

Tom,

This is GREAT info – thanks for bringing it to light – I like many would not have known of this type of problem. We are now more informed about what we maybe buying and can take a finer look before purchase.

Your posting was informative, without characterization and serves the entire community. THANKS!

-- Bill - - Ad-Marketing Guy, Ramsey NJ

Tom, Couldn’t agee with you more! I’ve had the same experience with this crap and will never buy it again. I recently used up the original two sheets I purchased, a few months back ,for making free standing base’s for some kithcen cabinets I’m installing. I wouldn’t even recommend using it for that, as it had warped so badly it was difficult to even build a square base. Aren’t the Chinese buying a lot our lumber for their rapidly expanding economy? And they’re sending all this crap over here! To all readers,don’t use this stuff, you’ll regret it!

-- Two things to think about!..".Be careful what you want ,because you'll probably get it!"... " If you don't know where your going ,you'll probably get there."

The quality of the plywood or any other product from any country (source) is dependent on the importer/wholesale buyer setting quality standards and monitoring production to ensure the quality of their product.

It is unfortunate that some manufacturers and importers don’t subscribe to the idea that quality products at a “fair” price produces satisfied repeat customers.

I am tempted by low prices, but more often than not, pay more for quality products.

Dalec

Tom, I’ll stick in my two cents. Recently I used some of this… but I had to finish the job, yes I thought I would save a buck, but the stuff is miserable to work with. The veneer is sooo thin that you can’t even touch it with a sander. I did my best with the buscuit jointer and luckily the two projects were going to be painted. I can’t think of a single project that will make me use that stuff again.

-- bobdurnell, Santa Ana California.

no such thing as quality control anymore in big business…..I worked in lumber yards for the past 20 years and have seen the plywood standards drop every single year. We used to get truckloads of plywood from Brazil , etc . that were so warped they were like coiled springs when the truck drivers would loosen their straps. Trying to unload these gems with our forklifts was indeed a balancing act and then we had to try to restack them in our warehouses without them falling over on us…. There was often mold growing inside the shipping crates on the plywood as they were shipped here on freighters that often took on water into their storage hulls….you wouldn’t believe how bad some of it smelled and the products were often stained from the high moisture content which created the mold. I don’t miss that job anymore ! hahaha

-- Dusty56@comcast.net

i’m in plywood industry of China. i’d read all your comments and i think most thing you say is right. There’re many problems exist in some chinese plywood export to USA:wrap, think face veneer,delamination,viods,etc.

i’m in this industry for nearly 7 years, i have seen the quality of plywoods exporting to USA drop every year. 7 years ago, “exporting grade” plywood means good quality plywood in china, but now, “exporting grade” plywood means bad quality plywood. We sell good quality plywoods in demestic market and sell plywoods not very good to USA. Do you why? Importers from USA pay most attention to the cost, they always want us reduce our cost. If we can’t reach their aim of cost,they will transfer their orders to other suppliers who can provide “cheap” plywood.In china, the standard is in importers hand, we produce product what foreign importers want to buy. To reduce the cost, face/back veneers become thiner and thiner, more and more low quality veneer be used in the core…... just to save 2 or 3 dollers(a 3/4” plywood). Some chinese suppliers who insist produce good quality plywoods had abandon USA market, beacuse less importer need good quality plywood,more and more importers only want import cheap plywood from china.

To solve these quality problems is very easy.To avoid wrap,dry veneers to not more than 6 degree of moisture content before glue and hot press them and keep the moisture content of plywood not more than 12%. If you want thick face veneer, we use thick it. To avoid delamination, use better glue and bigger pressure when hot press plywood. To reduce voids, we can use good core veneers…....It’s not we chinese can not produce good plywood.

-- china

It seems that all the oak and birch ply that I come across anymore has such a thin outer veneer that it’s damn near unsandable. I thought it was just a sign of the times.

-- Ron, Bakersfield, CA. Measure twice, cut twice anyway.

Interesting issue. I was struck by what Dusty56 wrote above about steadily declining quality in the past twenty years. In recent episodes, Norm has mentioned “paper thin veneers” and “slightly less than 3/4” panels when describing today’s plywood products. When I visit my local Lowes, I notice the nominal 23/32” markings. Like a lot of products these days, we’re paying more but getting less.

I don’t buy plywood frequently, so I must admit that I don’t completely understand how plywood is graded. The “cabinet grade” designation seems ambiguous. So, I wonder, is there some stamp of approval I should look for, such as the APA , that certifies the product has met some quality standards? I need to educate myself about this. Thanks.

-- -- Jim E., Oswego, NY. Create, have fun, and work safely!

I called around today since I needed to pick up some maple plywood for our bedroom set I am working on. I found domestic A1 priced only $10 more a sheet (about 18% higher) than the Chinese B2 from Home Depot. I went to HD first since I had to get something else. The wood there was crap, warped, marred, and slightly less than 3/4”.

The domestic stuff I got is beautiful wood, I can actually see the thickness of veneer on it. It is also oversized 1/2” in both dimensions and is a true 3/4”. I will never buy hardwood plywood from HD or Lowes again, you made a believer out of me.

-- Rich, WNY, www.nyrockingchairs.com