New Posting Rules

Sounds good to me Martin.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Thanks Martin

-- Les, Wichita, Ks. (I'd rather be covered in saw dust!)

Makes sence to me.

-- The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them

Sounds great !
Thank you …

-- Mike in Bonney Lake " If you are real real real good your whole life, You 'll be buried in a curly maple coffin when you die."

It does seem that anytime either one of these subjects are brought up someone gets bent out of shape. Woodworking is the theme and should be the subject.
thanks

-- JJohn

Straightforward, and to the point. Sans the usual legal jargon present in most restrictive/policy related texts… The ”+ View the posting rules” link is a nice addition and eliminates the “I didn’t know there were restrictions…” kind of thing…

-- Looking for free wood working plans? Visit us at www.AwlFreePlans.com

Good job, Martin. Nip it all in the bud. Let’s make sawdust and the projects that result from it.

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

Martin, I fully support your standards and feel that they will keep LJ as a premium forum for wood workers from my novice level to full professionals. Thanks for all of your efforts.

-- Even the best of men relish a little spice every now and then... HG Somers, circa 1905

Good call I come here to see and hear abuut woodworking ,Nothing else, they have places for that kind of thing.
Chuck

-- Chuck, wiswood2 www.wisconsinwoodchuck.com

shucks now I have to learn to be civil….

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

sounds good…

-- Matt, Napa, CA...SING WITH ME: "Sum...sum...sum...summ...summ...summ...summertime..."

That fair to me. We all want a level playing field and and place to discuss woodworking.

This will really help me.

Thanks Martin.

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Ok with me ..the only way to go Martin…2 strikes your out

-- - - Tools are nice to have but you need someone to work them - -

If I have to…. does this mean no more Shameless Promotions ? Please click here and then tell us if this is allowed. What better way to show “fellow woodworkers” what I do. They’re not going to take the time to go to my profile page to see if I have a site. It also stands out better than a signiture. I do not expect a fellow woodworker to buy my work.

I personally would like a little more clarification on this. If we visit a nice Wood Store we can’t give there address and web site because it conflicts with an advertiser that you make money off of.

-- Odie, Confucius say, "He who laughs at one's self is BUTT of joke".

Odie, the trouble with going to that website is that it wont take you back agian.

A guy would want to fix that before he PO’ed the entire class! <g>

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Bob #2 I keep forgetting about you Enternet Explorer users … I will fix once again….

OK Bob #2 It’s fixed now.

-- Odie, Confucius say, "He who laughs at one's self is BUTT of joke".

Thanx Martin…..this is a needed change.

Much Welcomed !

-- Bill - - Ad-Marketing Guy, Ramsey NJ

I am new here what kind of comment was made or what was it that happen

-- - - Tools are nice to have but you need someone to work them - -

Many of us, as professionals, have websites and that certainly is not an issue to post. It is preaching to the choir. Most of us woodworkers are not going to be buying from another woodworker, we are here to gain inspiration and information.

If, for instance, Jet or Grizzly reps were blogging how great their tools are – well that is just free advertising. I think that it is inappropriate since others pay for their advertising.

For Marc to announce that he has a new DVD I don’t see as a big issue. Especially since he is a paying advertiser. I suppose that can be factored into the “premium business features.” He would be considered someone that is directly selling a product to woodworker.

I think your guidelines are appropriate and reasonable.

I appreciate your hard work Martin.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

thanks for handling this.. I think it will bring even more harmony to the site

-- making sawdust....

—-I’m still trying to figure out who the ‘site managers’ are….and what is their level of experience in dealing with re-moving messages that they see as inappropriate or those individuals that they ‘see un-fit’....hmmm. I guess though that those individuals deemed as un-fit would not be really people….but just ‘ideas’! I don’t think I ever met an idea that I could criticize that was not connected in some way to a live breathing real people person.

Where was I when the badges were being passed out….?

Excuse me if I’m sounding perplexed here….I’m just thinking out-loud, if that’s still a-loud….?

Thank you.
GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

GMman, I’ve only been here for a short time, but this is a good idea from some of the discussions that have developed. Rehashing past events isn’t going to help anything…better to start from here and trust those that have learned from things that went wrong. Nice work Martin, as usual. GaryK, how are you the 1st one to comment on most stuff…do you have a LJ implant or are you just ‘living on Tulsa time’?! You are the Alpha, my man :)

-- Jason, AL

OK by me, Martin.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

There’s two things I don’t talk about: Politics and Religion.

-- Check out the live video stream from our shop. http://wwbeds.com

lol great comment chris ! lol thanks martin

-- if you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes

Ditto, there’s plenty of room for religion and politics elsewhere. This spot on the net offers respite from such concerns and lends succor for those with a passion for working wood. Amen.

always,
J.C.

-- "Imagination is more important than knowledge" -- Albert Einstein

Thank you Martin.

I think this is a great addition to this site.

-- Dick Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

Thank you,

-- Berta in NC

Thanks Martin, I know more than anyone how much this is needed. New rules are a fine.

Dave

-- Dave Leitem,Butler,Pa.,http://dlcarver.etsy.com

It is to bad people cant conduct themselves in a manner that allows for debate of opposing ideas. While I understand the need to impose rules on discussion it makes me sad that I can not get views from the people here that I may admire.

Ok back to work..

Sucks to be the boss .. don’t it Martin? <smile>

-- "so much to learn and so little time"..

I agree. After that last fiasco it’s nice to see some policy established. One thing to remember though, we went a long time with a ton of members here before that one “bad apple” showed up. Tells you a little about just who we are as a whole, don’t it?

Keep up the good work Martin!

-- Bob Vila would be so proud of you!

sounds very fair, Martin. thank you

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

Thanks Martin!

-- Tim D. - Woodstock, GA

Thanks Martin!

-- As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (Proverbs 27:17)

Full support from this end Martin.

-- Grumpy - "Always look on the bright side of life"- Monty Python

I’m easily confused.

What is the difference between “advertising” and taking products from your personal website/store and posting them as projects for sale?

If a project posting has product information, tips on ordering and a reference to a website/store, how is that NOT an advertisement? Is it NOT an advertisement because it does not include the price?

As a woodworker, these “projects” just get in the way. Other than the photograph that could be inspiration, they don’t provide any value. No discussion of design or contruction challenges. No construction tips or pitfalls. Just marketing.

I’ve noticed a growing number of these types of “projects”. With the flood of real projects we are now getting, I’d like to see some filters for the projects page like we have on pulse that would let you choose what projects you see. You could filter out projects you are not interested in. Probably use tags or poster name for filtering.

Just my opinion.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

As much as I hate to get into politics… Ditto to what Leon said. There does seem to be a fair amount of “project” spam. In fact that is why I came back to this thread today. If you post 60 “projects” a week, are they really projects ?? :(

-- Tom, Central New York

Sounds good. I think we all should keep it about wood and woodworking. Ideas and learning, not selling. If everyone starts selling then how can anyone learn. This site is one of the best sites for info on woodworking and most of the people here injoy helping as well as learning. As to the other rules no politics/religion Many of us know who we are and what we beleave in this is not a web site for putting any one down or trying to change who we are. I just wish people would keep that in mind. I have seen it on other web sites that start out really good and end up just a mess and then good people leave. I really injoy this web site and the people who are on it, so can we please all just keep it about woodworking and helping one another. Sorry this is so long but I would just hate to see a good thing go bad. If any one would like to sell there stuff maybe we could start a blog page just for selling. Some people may come to this site and see something they like so maybe a page set up just for selling would be a good thing. Lets have fun and injoy this great web site….....

-- Davesfunwoodworking

Thank You Martin

-- Chris

I’m truly sorry, but please make this clear for me. Am I missing something? There have been blogs praising Rockler while at the same time Woodcraft is advertizing at the bottom of the page … confused.

To ABOVE ... I’m a woodworker that happens to be a Pro. Does that mean I should be any less proud of what I create? I do only post a “project” about once a month. That is done so I DON’T overwhelm the projects page with my work. I also don’t enter contests like the box one just held. But I do post my web site with my projects so people can get to know me. I KNOW no other woodworker is going to buy from me. My “So you want to go Pro” blog series also is filled with my web site address. It helps show people interested in the subject just what I’m talking about.

I have asked for clarification on a couple of these new rules … so far silence.

-- Odie, Confucius say, "He who laughs at one's self is BUTT of joke".

Odie, I took a look at your project posts and they don’t come across as a sales pitch. They have detail on materials, construction and finishing. You even included some projects on jigs you used. It is clear to me that you are sharing your expertise which I think is what these projects should be about.

I don’t mind the link to your website either. If I see something that catches my eye, I can go to your website and see your full body of work. I don’t see how a website link distracts from a project that is posted to share woodworking knowledge.

I’d much rather see a link to your website than have you post everything you ever made as a project. If I see something on your website that I want more information on, I can send you a PM. If it is something that would interest other LJ’s, I might even ask you to post a project about it.

For me, projects should be all about sharing woodworking knowledge.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

I find that 99% of the LumberJocks are more than willing to share the building process with others – all you have to do is ask.

Also, many projects have been blogged about, posting the process in a series and then the project is simply that—the project.

I guess my comment would be: if you want to know and it’s not posted: simply ask and not assume that they are selling without sharing.

As for products for sale: for me, and maybe I’m way off base here, but I see that many woodworkers who are struggling to make their hobby into their primary source (or secondary source) of income. Using LJ as a way to promote their creations is a perk that we can get here. I have heard or read many times on here that the success of a woodworker relies primarily on word of mouth. Selling other products mainly relies on advertising. That’s how I see it anyway..

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Martin….great job. Just when I start to see issues crop up that concern me you come up with a solution. Maybe not yet a perfect solution but at least its a start. When LJ was just a small community it seemed like it policed itself, illusion of course, most of that was at your direction as well. These rules will go a long way to keeping things civil.

I have to say I agree with the concerns of others above. I’ve just removed someone from my buddies list for the 1st time because I had a ridiculous amount of notification emails of project postings. If that isn’t spam I don’t know what is. I’m not against LJ having a commercial component but the project area rules for posting could use some tweaking. Sharing a project because you’re proud of it should be the primary reason for it’s inclusion in the projects tab.

You might want to consider offering the pros amongst us a special area Martin. A place where for a small fee (emphasis on small) they could showcase their work to a broad audience. Sorry pros, the only reason this has even become and issue is becasue of the abuse of the projects area. It could be an area advertized to interior designers, contractors, etc… to make it have extra value…just a thought.

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

I guess I might be one of those “pros”that doesn’t post with my projects a ” discussion on design or construction challenges”but I have always answered any e mails or postings asking about my process.I don’t include this because I just do not have the time to do that much typing if I was trying to sell to you all I would be taking the time.I just thought I would share with other fellow woodworkers my work and post info as I had time.It seems I keep seeing negative comments geared towards us “pros” I am starting to feel a little unwelcomed here.

I’m curious would most of the LJ ’s prefer not see our postings here?I hope not, I have always enjoyed seeing all of the types of projects posted here and reading what other woodworkers are up to pro or not

-- Scott NM,http://www.shangrilawoodworks.com

If we lose the pro’s then we lose the experienced teacher. And if we lose the teacher…then school’s out.

I for one have no qualm with the posting of anyones projects that are for sale. It’s actually kinda interesting finding out what some of this stuff goes for! And I guess when you think of it, all of our projects are for sale. Are you gonna refuse a good offer?

I think what Martin is really trying to avoid is the spammers. We’ve seen them come in and post only ads to other sites, etc. That we definately can do without. The teachers though, we need.

-- Bob Vila would be so proud of you!

Dadoo-I totally agree.And yes I agree there is line between offering something for sale and jamming it down someones throat like spammers.I think the posting rules are very fair.

-- Scott NM,http://www.shangrilawoodworks.com

Dadoo again your profound words amaze me, but they shouldn’t. I do want you to know that LumberJocks is the ONLY place I give my secrets away.

-- Odie, Confucius say, "He who laughs at one's self is BUTT of joke".

I think it is commendable that you care enough about what happens here that you put forth the rules for everyone to ponder. I agree, there must be rules and controls to govern anything that is worth while. I for one grew up knowing the rules, playing by the rules, and I shared them with my children.
He who plays the game, plays it well, and stars in the finish, plays fair and by the rules. One “at-a-boy” for Martin. It appears you have most peoples support and I am confident based on what I’ve seen on the site all the questions will be answered and the site will continue to be the place for woodworkers and interested people to gather and learn.

-- Brad,--"The way to eat an eliphant is one bite at a time"

IT’S ALL ABOUT THE WOOD AND THE PROJECTS WE MAKE FROM IT…....
MY FELLOW MEMBERS COMMENTS ARE SO WELCOME AND I LIKE TO HEAR FROM OTHERS IN THE CRAFT THAT SUGGEST WAYS TO IMPROVE MY WORKMANSHIP.
THE INSPIRATION TO SUCCEED THAT COMES FROM THE COMMENTS MAKES ME WANT TO DO MORE AND CHALLENGE MYSELF IN THE PROCESS. WHAT BETTER WAY TO LEARN THAN FROM MEMBERS THAT ARE ALREADY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS PERSONS ? ALTHOUGH I NEVER DUPLICATE OTHERS PROJECTS , I HAVE PICKED UP NUMEROUS TIPS AND LEARNED SO MUCH JUST FROM SEEING THEIR WAYS OF DOING THINGS WITH WOOD…THANK YOU ALL AND PEACE TO EVERYONE

I AM NEW TO THIS SITE AND QUITE FRANKLY ADDICTED TO IT !!!

-- Dusty56@comcast.net

another welcomed revision to the site !

-- ..... smalll army of cast iron wingnuts !! cool photo in FORUM

As a recent new member to this site; I was impressed with the “civilitry” of all of the postings, discussions and comments. Anything to keep it that way; I’m in favor of. Keep up the good work.
http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/Islandwoodworker/projects

Reminder

I’m very new to this site and unaware of prior problems with discussions. I come to this site to learn about woodworking ideas and solutions to problems that I experience. I am not here for politics or religious ideas. I am in favor of that.

-- Eugene, North Carolina, slimderx@yahoo.com

Good Job Martin and Thank you!!!
pro or not, the site is about wood working. If you are a pro then be professional and respect the fact that this is a free site. If you want to make money here then pay for the advertising space. As an IT professional I recognize that website design, creation, hosting, maintaining hardware and software, and licensing is incredibly expensive and takes allot of time. If you are using the site to promote your professional wares then pay the same hosting fees and associates costs as you would for a non-free site. Dont abuse a good thing and ruin it for everyone else. Better yet, work out a deal where the site owner gets a cut of what you sell…and be honest.
If your not sure if your breaking the rules….then you probably are.
As for politics and religion….these are opinions…And just like our nether-regions….everyone has one.

Martin, I support your rules 100%. I don’t envy your task of babysitting though.

-- Gary, Matthews NC

Works for me…

-- There is nothing in the world more dangerous, than a woodworker who knows how to read a micrometer...

Soulds like plain common sense and good manners to me, to bad that those things seem to be in shorter supply than they used to be. (not among LJ’s of course)

-- RTB. "dumb animals are not stupid they simply can't talk "

Boundries are needed on a site like this, as we have seen since the growth has taken place. I think that we will all be able to live with these guidelines.
A job well done Martin!

-- Ed Collinge- Edmonds, WA.