MsDebbieP's Company Tours #15: Sawstop

if there are any further questions about the product, please post them and I’ll try and get them answered for you.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Thanks for the interview Debbie. It’s interesting that they say that they are the #1 seller of saws. I might make the other MFG’s stand up and notice.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

If you arn’t familliar with this saw you should also know that you will have to replace your blade as well as the cartridge. When it fires it ruins your blade. That would suck if you were using an expensive dado set, but I guess you can’t put a price on your fingers! Nice work Debbie..

-- Women love me.....trees fear me

true—both to Karson and Brad.

re: a $$$ dado set.. it would be bothersome but when you look at your fingers and hand still in tact… I think the replacement costs would be a lot easier to swallow.
I think we envision the cost as an ongoing expense of the machine. Hopefully the mechanism would never have to be used. The expense would only come when it saved you from a traumatic “accident”.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

You know, I really like the idea of the SawStop. I’d sure consider one if I had that kind of budget for a saw. But I really have a problem with a company that says to it’s users “Nothing can go wrong, and if it does, it’s your falut, not ours.” But some form of that statment is made in every interview I’ve read. One of the woodworking magazines I subscribe to tested the SawStop and had it deploy into their dado blade part way through a cut (hard to get your fingers in that!). According to the review, SawStop told them they must have done something wrong, but none of the errors that SawStop suggested applied to their situation. And that points to my second gripe with SawStop – they ignore the cost of the blade. They should say that your cost is $69 plus the cost of the blade which is still totaly more economical than a trip to the hospital, but I’ve never seen them mention the cost of the blade, which seems a little deceptive. Especially if they are going to wind up blaming me for a false deployment into my rather expensive dado blade!

-- What exactly is "The Move" and who are you calling a "Quirky Jerk"? -- http://www.north40custom.com

really good points Peter.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Hopefully the folks at SawStop are reading this blog. The points made are all valid and should be addressed. These and the cost, plus the fact that my saw is only 2 years old are the reasons I don’t have a SawShop. However, Peter, if you want to look at one and try it they have one in the shop at the Woodcraft in Boise. I’m sure Monte would let us play with it as long as we don’t trip the trigger on the danged thing.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

Hi Debbie,

First of all, thanks for the great writeup.

I had the opportunity to spend about an hour using SawStop at one of their local distributors. A couple of weeks later, I got into quite a debate with a couple of woodworking friends of mine. Here’s a very brief summary of the “give and take”.

For of all:

Quality – INHO SawStop is as good or better than a number of saws in their price catagory. Fit and finish is first rate. and accuracy appeared to be as good as it needs to be, given the price tag. It appeared to me that a lot of thought went into the performance design and features.

The Safety Mechanism – Now to the meat and potatoes of what makes SawStop unique. Again, IMHO, hats off to these folks. They’ve come a long way in addessing the #1 safety issue we all seem to have with table saws, that is GETTING CUT. I would have expected this kind of thing to come out of one of the hundred year old tool manufacturers’ R&D shops.

The only time I’ve cut myself on a spinning blade is after I switched te power off. It was a minor cut (luckily) and I spent enough time with my finger bandaged to think about all of the safety lessons I already knew. Plus the fact that I scared the hell out of myself. I understand that the SawStop STOP mechansim will trigger even when the power is off. Good thinking guys!

Now to the debate I had with my buddies. Both of them believe that SawStop will foster carelessness in TS operation. My reaction is non-sense! Anyone who stops paying careful attention to their digits, based upon the notion that the saw will save them, is going to find a way to get themselves hurt anyway . . . on some tool. Their brain simply isn’t engaged. The other debate was based upon price. As far as I’m concerned, if I were in the market for a top quality TS, I would certainly consider SawStop. I might even be pursuaded to pay the premium.

However, I do echo Thomas’ concern. It’s only out a couple of years. And with all of the electronics and sensors driving this thing, I can only wonder how it will perform when it is 10 years only and full of dust and lubricants that may have been sprayed on it. I’m sure these units have gone through testing. But still, time will tell the tale.

-- Bob

I had never considered the carelessness angle. Interestingly, cars with airbags are more likely to be involved in front-end collisions than cars without airbags. Makes you think.

-- What exactly is "The Move" and who are you calling a "Quirky Jerk"? -- http://www.north40custom.com

a nice “hands on” review. Thanks.

the “carelessness” debate – yikes! Does that mean that they are careless when the guards are on their other equipment? Maybe that’s where the cost of replacement parts and blades will make them reconsider safety precautions.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

if we want to compare airbags to the sawstop, for me it would be that I’d forget about the options after a brief time of having it available. I never think about the airbag in my vehicle.

Maybe the types of people buying the vehicles with airbags are different than the types of people who buy airbags without? Maybe… maybe.. maybe.. oh the possibilities are endless!

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Maybe!

You certainly can’t call it a perfect comparison. There could be a lot of factors that affect the airbag statistics (people in rural areas are more likely to drive older cars which don’t have airbags, and there are fewer accidents in rural areas … maybe). But it still makes you think – well, it makes me think … I think.

I think with the SawStop, it would be harder to forget than an airbag. First of all, your car doesn’t say ”AirBag” on the side! Also, you have to turn the SawStop device on and off for different materials. I used to have a pickup that allowed you to turn off the passenger airbag – off for the kids in the morning, on for the co-worker at lunch time, off for the kids in the afternoon. I thought about it when I got in. Happily, no collisions of any sort.

-- What exactly is "The Move" and who are you calling a "Quirky Jerk"? -- http://www.north40custom.com

good points.

lol I’m just thinking: “Phew.. good thing I’m using a SawStop.. now I can put my fingers right onto that spinning metal-toothed blade while I’m cutting wood. Nah nah nah nah nah”

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

This saw is definitely on my list for when I finally get a tablesaw of my very own. I’ve seen the aftermath of a tablesaw accident up close and personal. My grandfather trimmed the ends off three fingers when I was in high school.

I hadn’t thought about the reliability down the road – thanks Fingersleft. That’s definitely something to consider. I know someone had mentioned several months ago (can’t remember his name – real estate guy from Utah putting together a really well outfitted shop, who has a friend in the tool sales business) that a lot of high schools were getting rid of their tablesaws and replacing them with SawStops for insurance reasons. I’d love to see the statistics on how these saws are faring after the schools have had them a couple of years. The class I take is an open woodshop class taught at a local high school. The equipment takes quite a beating between the high school kids and the couple of adult ed classes which use it. I’d think that the machines probably get the equivalent of a couple of years of home shop use in the course of one year of school use.

As for safety. There are two rooms with equipment and the instructor can only be in one place at a time. There are table saws in both rooms – two European multi-machines in the quieter room, which don’t get a lot of use, and one massive tablesaw in the other room. There are no guards on either of the machines. The only machine with a funtioning guard is the jointer. Everyone in the class is supposedly aware of the inherent dangers of the machines – we have to sign a waiver saying that at the start of each term. (Funny aside being a wood shop there is rarely a pen around so we all sign in pencil. I often wonder how that would stand up in court “Well yes I did sign but it’s only in pencil so it doesn’t really count.”) The instructor and I have a running list of the class members most likely to lose a digit. It’s not funny but no matter how many times you tell someone not to do a task a particular way because it’s dangerous it doesn’t make a difference. With at least a few of these guys (I’m not being sexist with this. Most of the women in the class are much more cautious than the men.) it would take a 2×4 to the head, or a serious accident to change their behavior. The good news is that in the nearly 10 years I’ve been taking the class no one has had a major injury. I don’t think a SawStop would make any of these people more careless, but it would let them keep their appendages.

-- Chelle http://artsgranddaughter.blogspot.com

I don’t care what kind of saw I am using, when I turn on that power switch, I am thinking of nothing but the cut I am making and where my hands and fingers are at in relation to the blade. Having a Saw Stop wouldn’t change that for me, but would cover that gray area known as S**T happens! No matter how carefull you are you cant control everything…

-- Women love me.....trees fear me

Excellent review Debbie – seems to have provided “food for thought” for a bunch of us. I think that the bottom line when cutting a piece of wood on a table saw is to ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT YOU MIGHT LOOSE A FINGER, OR HAND if you are not careful.

The Saw Stop is a good safety device, but just as the gun that I carry for work everyday won’t shoot unless I pull the trigger – the saw won’t cut you if you keep your hands away from it. Let’s just be careful and we can hope that future generations of the Saw Stop will address some of the concerns raised in this thread. Be careful guys and gals.

-- Bill - "Suit yourself and let the rest be pleased." http://www.cajunpen.com/

Just the mention of the Sawstop does get people salivating. I like the saw. I like the idea. Airbags, traction control, antilock breaks and other driving aids have, perhaps, improved car control and safety, but do they make us better drivers? Probably not. There’s plenty of argument that says they make us worse. Get a guy with antilock breaks and a front wheel drive suddenly driving a 1978 chev pickup on an icy road. Keystone Cops stuff! Will safety mechanisms on a tool make us more careless? I think that carelessness comes as a result of two things. Lack of experience, and over confidence. That’s why long time pros and people very familiar with these saws tend to not be immune to momentary lapses in attention. Also, a guy that doesn’t know that it’s a bad idea might get into the same trouble. All in all, I applaud the technology and anyone that has one or is getting one has my full support, because if it brings you joy and you want it? Go get it! Nice blog, Debbie!

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Hi Mot;

You forgot to mention two parachutes. Other than that, I’m with you all the way.

It is true that professionals are more likely to get cut than non pros. This is due to two reasons. One, the professionals are “comfortable” with their saw, and therefore a little less attentive at times. (not all, only some).

The second reason is the fact they spend a large amount of time using the saw.

The non pros generally have a healthy amount of fear/ respect for the machine, and use it far less.

I have a Delta unisaw, which is about fifteen years old, and has been trouble free in all that time. It’s seen very heavilly used, and it’s a great machine. I don’t think the unisaws offered today are of the same calibur machine, and probably wouldn’t buy one. Sad, but true.

Being’s I’m kind of attached to my fingers, and vice versa, I will eventually replace it with the saw stop, as it is a very fine machine.

More and more insurance companies are demanding that the saw stop be used, or they will cancell the insurance policies, both for business, and especially school districts, that still have a woodshop program.

That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it!

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

My guess is the folks at Sawstop have spent so many hours talking to lawyers they have lost a bit of their souls…kinda like politicians and hospital administrators.

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

It’s nice to get the perspective of a professional woodworker, Lee. Thanks. Kickbacks are bad, but amputations can really mess up your day. Sawstop’s riving knife, solid construction and safety features make it a real winner for the professional, I bet.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

When I got to class tonight the instructor said he had something to show me. It was a folder of information on the SawStop saw. It seems that the school district has decided to refurbish the shop and is replacing the table saws (2 European multi function machines – can’t remember the brand name but it starts with an R and 1 large table saw) with SawStops. Apparently this is just the first step, and they’re also going to replace the lathes, band saws, planer, jointer, and all the rest. I can’t wait to get a chance to try the new machines.

-- Chelle http://artsgranddaughter.blogspot.com

let us know what you think!!

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I have owned a SawStop for over 6-months now and I bought this saw for two reasons. First, my 6 year old grandson lives with us full time and I know it’s only a matter of time before he wants to use the saw. Just the piece of mind knowing he’ll never loose a finger or worse is worth the extra cost of this tool. Second, I researched a number of other table saws and SawStop’s attention to a commercial level of construction on this saw is very noticeable. The riving knife, the use of larger bearings, the extra weight of the cast-iron base, and the Biesemeyer type fence are just a few examples of their attention to details that make this a quality piece of equipment. As for the saw only being 2-years old, I’ve found with almost any tool or electronic equipment that if it’s going to have problems it will be within the few months of use. I’ve been doing all the finish work in our new home so I’ve had a lot of “On” time with is product and it hasn’t missed a beat yet. Regarding the comments about being more careless knowing it’s going to protect you, every time I turn that saw on, or any piece of equipment in my shop, my body and mind automatically goes into a defensive mode – it’s only human nature.

-- Dutch in Pioneer

I’m wondering – if I’m using a SawStop to rip a board that I bought at the local Big Box store, and I forgot to remove the little staple holding the barcode in the end of the board, and I try to saw through that staple, do I kill a blade and a $69 cartridge? This sounds like something I would do. Is it that sensitive? Anyone know?

-- Dave, North Arkansas

I’m a little late posting this due to just finding the topic.

I’m in a very happy point in my life at age 48 I returned to school to study Cabinetmaking and Fine Woodworking. They also have courses in Wood Boat Carpentry, and Carpentry as well they offer night classes for the DIY/Hobby crowd. During the day we have between 90-120 students and at night I understand the classes are packed. Between the three shops we have around 20 table saws, a variety of Delta, General, Powermatic and Sawstop. We have six Sawstops between the three shops. These saws all get a solid work out 14 to 15 hours 5 days a week. I hate to say this but some people have very little respect for tools that do not belong to them, mostly the night students. A months worth of use in our shop is most likely more than a DIY/Hobby shop will use their table saw in a life time. These sawstops have stood up to all the abuse that has been dished out.
On Feb. 14th, 2008 one of the young gals in the Cabinetshop was operating one of the table saws and had her hand fall into the spinning blade. The saw got her right thumb and forefinger. She had the blade set at 45 degrees, with the blade up higher than it should have been for the cut she was making. And she had removed the guard covering the blade. She was using a push stick to push the wood through the saw, and she leaned the push stick to get past a feather board she had attached to the fence to hold her material down. When she leaned the stick to the left the stick slipped where it was in contact with the wood, the result was her hand falling into the blade. She really didn’t need to be using a push stick, she had about 6” of distance between her hand and the blade. She said later that table saws scare her. The sad part is that had she been using the Sawstop she would not have had any damage to her hand as a result of the mistakes she made. The Sawstop was in the shop available for her to use, she had just chosen to use one of the other saws. She later said that she should not have been using any of the power equipment that day because she had other things on her mind. That and the fact she expected something to happen to her that day, due to a history of bad things happening to her on Valentines day???
The closest saw to my bench is a Sawstop so it is my go to saw. It is a pleasure to use in every respect, very accurate, no vibration, easy to operate, a all around solid saw. I no of no camplaints about the Sawstop from anyone I have talked to. I am presently putting together my new shop and yes it will have a Sawstop.
As too the negative comments about Sawstop and thier marketing methods, I have yet to see them say anything that could be taken as misleading or or trying to be deseptive. I don’t know of any other company who will have the CEO answer questions you may have about thier product.
Bottom line my hats, off to Sawstop!!!!!

As to arkydaves ? you would have be in contact with that staple at the same time it makes contact with the blade. If you ever intend to get your hand that close to a spinning blade you had best hope you are working on a Sawstop or you’ll wish you were.

-- Ed Collinge- Edmonds, WA.

thanks for the post debbie. i really like these sawstops, but i wish they weren’t so expensive. i can’t wait to see what they some up with for the other tools. thanks for the post.

thanks for the personal experience story, Ed.

Thanks TWW.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)