Hall Mirror Video (Part 2), A Design & Market Challenge

again, great tutorial video.

Now, you didn’t do all this AND the wood show this weekend, did you???

(Great video editing, Matt.)

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Thanks for the video, Gord. It was informative and very well produced.

One thought that struck me while watching this is that I wondered if you had considered making a story pole or plywood jig to eliminate measuring for drilling the various holes. I wouldn’t do anything like this for one or two of these but if I were going to make these commercially, as you have, I would think that something like that would be useful.

By the way thanks for pointing out your “opportunity to add a detail” to the piece. I thought that I had the market cornered on making mistakes.

Thanks Gord.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

Nice video. Thanks

-- Hope Never fails

A delightful project to get new Woodworkers started with minimal tools and expense.
As usual very well detailed and carefully explained.

Great work Gord.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Great video!

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Good videos, nicely done. I have one question though, you said you made dozens of these and sold them through a couple stores. You kept your costs down while producing a marketable product. I won’t argue that it’s a marketable product, they look good, but, I’d be interested to know what your material costs and your time were per unit, and how much profit you made per unit. My guess is you probably worked for about $5 an hour, if that. I don’t mean to rain on anyones parade, you did a nice job, and I do apreciate your efforts, but lets be realistic here on profitability.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Excellent video and tutorial Gord. Apparently teaching/demonstrating is something that comes very natural to you. I agree with Bob#2 – this is an excellent project for some of our newer woodworkers, and something that even the “veterans” might enjoy making.

Woodchuck, your point on profit is well taken – however a LOT of us on this site don’t do this for a living, it’s more a relaxation thing (at least for me). I’m like these guys you see more and more these days on busy intersections with the “Will Work For Food” signs – only my sign says “Will Work For Tools/Wood”. So this is the perfect project for us – Fun to make + cheap material cost + getting paid (even $5) = New tools and having the opportunity to keep playing :-)) Ahhh, life is good.

-- Bill - "Suit yourself and let the rest be pleased." http://www.cajunpen.com/

I understand Cajun, but it was brought up by the author of this thread and some of us might want to know. If you want to put your health at risk by breathing sawdust and working in a dangerous enviroment, then burn up your tools, electricity, etc. for $5 an hour while the retailer makes more money than you did just to put it on their shelf, hey knock yourself out. Been there done that, not doing it anymore. I won’t even do it for family, most of them allready got more than they deserve from me.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Hello Woodchuck,

You ask a fair question and one that has been asked of me before.
Here are the stats as I remember them, ten years ago.

Material costs…………………less than $20
Finishing cost……(I sent them out) $25
Consumables……………………………….. $10 including transportation costs. (gas money)

Total……………………………………………….$55 each.

Payment………………………………………..$200 each
Less my costs………………………………..$ 55

My profit………………………………………..$145 each

Retail Price……………………………………..$400

And that was ten years ago. Mind you, the big plus here is finding a store whose cliental is willing to pay that price for a piece like that…………………..believe me there are stores out there that have that type of cliental today as well as 10 years ago.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

Hello All,

Thanks one and all for your kind words and comments, I’m so pleased that many found this project worth looking at. By the way, some have sent me emails stating that they are going to build the mirror for themselves….........................................I’m happy that I have inspired others to give it a try.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

LOL, Gord, did you ever happen to sell used cars for a liveing at a time in your life ? Comeon man.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Hi Woodchuck,

Never was a used car salesman but I have managed to do well selling my work.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

that looks great. i am doing a piece with pine now. any chance you could send me a message with that finish so i can try it out on my piece. its a printer table/cabinet and I’m also featuring it in the next few episodes of the teen age woodworker.

the video was great too. i love seeing things like this done and its a great help to actually see these things done when mostly all you can do is read about them. thanks a lot for the great video.

Hi teenagewoodworker,

Message and home email has been sent.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

Hello Scott,

I had several templates and various jigs for constructing these mirrors and I was able to knock them off in no time. You think like a production manager and that type of thinking comes in real handy when you want to save time and effort.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

Gord, one other thing, are you claiming that to be your design ? In your first video post thats the way I red it.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Yes, I designed it.

Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

Interesting, it seems real close to one I found on the internet many years ago, probably about the same time you built yours or earlier. I liked it, but decided to put my twist on it. If I do another one there is a small change to detail I’d like to do. Maybe I could get $800 for this one so I can build another, except nicer. Maybe even from quartersawn white oak. Then I’d have a $1200 one.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Hi,

So, what’s all this mean? There are a few similarities to the one I designed to your first picture but mine was designed to take 2, 12”X12” mirrors, not 3 custom size mirrors. Your first picture doesn’t look all that traditional with the metal hooks….........................I used shaker pegs instead. In my mind, the brackets are far too thick and should be further apart than they are now. The stiles and rails look (from here) that they were cut with a router and a kitchen door set…..........................not saying that’s bad, just not necessarily keeping with a piece of that time.

All in all, I like certain aspects to both of them although I would have preferred to see the bottom picture’s shelf brackets, concave instead of convex. The copper is a nice touch too although if it’s a mission style you were going after, I would have preferred to have seen black hooks.

And if you’re just trying to get under my skin…..................................you aint making it. If you’re not, then I’m not surprised to see hall mirrors with similar design traits.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

I wasn’t trying to go with any particular style, but now that you mention it, I would call it more of a Shaker style than Mission. The sides where I used copper sheets I tossed around the option of black board material or cork board to leave messages but chose the copper instead. There are a few changes I made on the one I built compared to the first picture, but I would hardly call this my design. I would say it’s my twist on someone elses design, nor do I think I’d get anywhere near $400 for it.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

I guess in a nut shell Gord I think your probably a pretty good guy, you just need to drop some of the BS.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Hi There,

Those who know me (and you don’t), know I don’t BS.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

I’m going to stick my neck out here, and hope it doesn’t get hacked off by a cheap, dull saw but Geez – I haven’t been here that long, but I’m sensing some hostility here. Aren’t we supposed to be having fun?

-- "No Board Left Behind"

Howdy Lakey,

I’m still having fun, hope you are.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

great post gord , thanks for taking the time to do the video , well done . if you check woodchucks history youll see he has a habit of being rude . im sure he will be brought to martins attention before long . we dont need rude people in this forum . you handled it well . thanks again

-- if you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes

MrTrim, I have a $600 hall mirror I’d like to sell you. It’s my exclusive design. Lieing to people and giveing them false hope isn’t doing anybody any favors, well maybe the people that sell tools it does. All I ask for is honesty, or is that asking for too much in this day and age? Just keepin it real. You can call it what you want. If some people can’t handle constructive critisizm then they shouldn’t be posting things for the whole world to see.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/tirelessrebutter.htm

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Yes, Gord – I’m still having fun – and I agree with Mr.Trim – you are incrediby tactful. Nice link, Bob#2.

Lakey

-- "No Board Left Behind"

Hi All,

I’m a firm believe in the fact that everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and that every opinion has merit.

I stand by my original post; I designed this project 10 years around those 12”X12” mirrors that are cheap and available at places like Home Depot.

If you want to slag me, go ahead, I have thick skin and I’m capable of taking a few shots but I’ve also been known to give out a few also.

I’m still having fun.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

Hi Bob#2

I like that link, it’s a beauty.
Thanks for posting it.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

I was reading through this post, and I couldn’t help but to make a few comments….

First off, The hall mirror is gorgeous Gord.. It’s amazing what you can do with so little. There is a store in my area that sells locally built furniture and other items such as hall mirrors. The prices are on par with what you stated above, and on any given day you would be amazed at the number of people perusing through the items with no hesitation to make a purchase. There are many people out there that will pay a high price for something that is hand-made, especially locally, instead of going to their local Walmart or Lowes to settle for the cheap alternate.

Second… Awesome link Bob#2!

Third… This is to you Woodchuck1957, I enjoy being on this website, mostly because of all the help that I get from everyone here. I have never seen a ww website where so many people are constantly encouraging even someone like myself myself who has always been around woodworking, but mostly worked in crafts, nick nacks, etc… It gives me the ambition to take on more larger, challenging projects. And another thing… It makes me feel really good (even though I couldn’t hold a candle to 3/4 of the lumberjocks here) when I have the opportunity to help someone by providing advice. Is assuming, or better yet (based on your comments above), calling Gord a liar, really helping anyone out? Do you really need hard evidence such as receipts and maybe a visit to the store where they are sold to truely believe what Gord stated? The point is, is that it’s not about trying to prove someone wrong, it’s about admiring the work of fellow lumberjocks and learning from their creativity. We definately want creative criticism, just to know that we’re human, but you really need to step back and ask yourself if accusing someone of falsifying information is really creative criticism…

Just my 2 cents… which is around what most of my projects cost.. :)

-- Jamie, Kentucky

Jamie, I’m not new to this trade, I’ve been around it for quite awhile. In the video he should of just stuck with the construction of the hall mirror and droped the sales pitch. The same goes for his comment on what people do with 12” x 12” mirrors. Both things made himself look arogant and wasn’t necessary. Other than that the videos were just fine. He can do with it what he likes, take it or leave it. At this point I could really careless.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

WOW…...... It only took me a little while to get myself straight after I joined this site. I know I made a few people angry and I have said I’m sorry for that. There are over 3,000 members here on LumberJock and every single one of them is different. (That’s the part I learned). All we want to do is create things with wood and share thoughts about our woodworking. You have to have compasion in this forum…..... just like you have compasion in life. If you can’t do it here….. can you imagine what your life would be like…......... I have compasion. I love this site. I love to communicate with all the LJ’s here. This is a great community and the thoughts of just a few people can’t ruin that for me….... or the rest of us! I think the best thing would be to totally ignore posts similar to what we’re talking about here. Can you imagine how pissed off that would make them…....... AND, sooner or later, they’d go away…........

-- Make things with wood.

Oh, almost forgot…......... Nice project Gord.

-- Make things with wood.

Hey Woodchuck,

I had my wife of 25 years read this thread and she’s still laughing at your comments.

This thread and your comments in particular are as productive as a fart in a windstom, according to her…...........I agree.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

Nice!

(The project… and the entertaining thread. You’re a good guy, Gord.)

-- Dust collectors suck.

Somewhere this post got way off subject. This is a woodworking forum. It doesn’t matter how much Gord got for the piece. It’s a great looking piece. Nice video also, thanks.

-- Jeremy, Saratoga, NY

great project Gord…I enjoyed the video as well…I am sorry that your post—and great work has brought on this conversation…

One minute ago I was congratulating an LJ and friend on his one year anniversary…then the next I spotted a blog on “rudeness”...and did not take me long to get here…

As a newer woodoworker I enjoyed the project—-but find the teaching aspect of your post invaluable…thank you…maybe ther is a silverlining—-I may not have checked out this entry without the rudeness…but now I have a new woodworker who I will be sure to check each time he posts…

As I approach my one year…I would hate for this sight to lose its sense of community…and friendship…

-- Matt, Napa, CA...SING WITH ME: "Sum...sum...sum...summ...summ...summ...summertime..."

Yeah Gord, we all know your a legend in your own mind, no shortage of arogance with you thats for sure, but the one thing you do lack is credability. Only a fool would drag his wife into this, if you actually have one. Good riddens.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Hi All,

Thanks for your kind words, I’m glad you liked the project, there are more projects in the wings.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

That’s how you do it Gord…...... good job. I’m looking forward to seeing them!
JJ

-- Make things with wood.

Gord, keep ‘em coming – your videos are very informative and very well done. I nave enjoyed all of them.

-- Bill - "Suit yourself and let the rest be pleased." http://www.cajunpen.com/

Bring on some more of your informative videos, Gord. I for one have picked up a lot from them. Thank you. As for the other stuff, sorry, I don’t do stupid.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

I don’t know if this contributes to the discussion, but …

I figure I should be able to charge at least as much for high-quality custom furniture as the stores get for high-quality production furniture. This seems like a good gauge whenever I’m second-guessing my pricing or a client is questioning my bid. Restoration Hardware sells high-quality production furniture and has a wide selection of items and styles, so they are one of the first places I check.

-- What exactly is "The Move" and who are you calling a "Quirky Jerk"? -- http://www.north40custom.com

Holy cow. Woodchuck, when you started up in my thread about Steel City, I honsetly thought I had embarrased you a little by pointing out your ignorance of basic electrical function, and your hostility was a result of that…..upon further research I have reached the conclusion that you are just hostile in general. What happened in your woodworking history to make you so jaded?

For the record, I know Gord both personally and proffesionally, and he is as real as they come. If he makes a statement, you can take it to the bank…..count on it.

Now, with all the negativity aside, lets continue :)

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

Hello Ryan,

Thank you, I appreciate your comments.
I agree, let’s move on.

All the best
Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/

wow.. I’ve been away for a while, due to the big birthday shindigs and look what I come back to!

Here’s a ditty from our February eMag:
Bring Out The Popcorn
LumberJocks.com is probably the friendliest and most supportive online community there is. However, on occasion we will get off track and a semi-heated debate will fire up and the atmosphere changes.
We have recently lost a member due to the less-than-pleasant discussions that have taken place over the past year. Although we cannot expect that it won’t happen again, we hope that the healthy debates don’t get out of control as some have in the past.
I think it is important that people not only have strong beliefs on subjects but also share their thoughts even if it may be controversial. Sometimes, however, the discussions get a little “heated” and it has been suggested that participants in such debates be asked to continue their discussion in private. So, if you find yourself caught up in a hot topic, don’t be surprised or hurt if someone pulls out the popcorn and you get a message to continue it using the private messaging option.
Let’s all work together to keep the discussions helpful and supportive – the true nature of LumberJocks.com

Time to take it outdoors… the points of view have been made and defended.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Well said…

-- Matt, Napa, CA...SING WITH ME: "Sum...sum...sum...summ...summ...summ...summertime..."

Gord, before I leave I’d like to publicly and sincerly apologize to you for some of my comments, and wish you luck. Obviously I need to take a break for for awhile if not forever. Take care and keep up the good work.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Hey Woodchuck,

Apology accepted, I hold no ill feelings towards you.

If you need someone to talk to, or vent to, email me, I mean it.

Perhaps all you need is a short time out to recharge your batteries.
Someone like you who has nearly 30 years as a woodworker has learned much along the way and it’s a shame not to share that with others. Put your feet up, relax and come back when you’re ready.

A wise woodworker quoted in his signiture line If you can’t find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ? ......................take a rest, do it properly and it won’t ever need fixing again. I’ll be here when you get back.

Check your PM, I’m emailing you.

All the very best to you.

Gord

-- Woodworking podcasts and more.... http://gordgraff.blogspot.com/