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Fail Fail Fail---bathroom mirror frames

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Blog entry by ichbinpete posted 01-07-2013 03:33 PM 1031 reads 1 time favorited 15 comments Add to Favorites Watch

This weekend I spent a bunch of time working on some elaborate (for me) mirror frames. I failed pretty miserably and for the most part know what I did wrong and what I should do different next time. That said, it was pretty disappointing. Two nice oak boards ruined and wasting of time has me pretty down.

Anyways, maybe you guys can give me some guidance. My major issue came with the miter glue up, which by the time I did it, I couldnt accurately clamp because of the routing I had done. My shaping was as follows, from ouside in on the boards.

Roman Ogee
Dado round over strip mounted in it
Cabinet panel bit used to slope the inside down toward the mirror
1/4” rabbet on the underside

I am thinking that I probably shold have done the outside Ogee and the underside rabbet after the glue up, which would have left me more clamping area. Is that the best way to glue up miters? I should have added that I did use my Dewalt Plate Jointer as well.

Also, another quick question about routing. When I did the rabbet on the underside, I had some significant tearout on some of the boards, but not others. Same with the dado I cut with a new up cut straight bit when I made the second pass (1/2” bit I had to run twice to get me to 3/4”). Was it a matter of grain most likely?

Ugh, so disappointing

-- It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.



15 comments so far

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

4917 posts in 1230 days


#1 posted 01-07-2013 04:52 PM

1) clamping problem? use 90 degree clamps.

2) tear out. Maybe take lighter passes.

View woodtarded's profile

woodtarded

15 posts in 621 days


#2 posted 01-07-2013 04:58 PM

One thought here would be using Pinch Dogs to get the miters to glue up better.

-- Jimmy---- Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.

View JesseTutt's profile

JesseTutt

804 posts in 763 days


#3 posted 01-07-2013 04:59 PM

I would pin nail the corners while holding a square on the inside to help align the joint.

-- Jesse, Saint Louis, Missouri

View a1Jim's profile (online now)

a1Jim

112086 posts in 2230 days


#4 posted 01-07-2013 05:06 PM

Your tear out problem can be from a number of things rising grain(cutting against the grain),taking to big of cut instead of taking 2-3 smaller cuts, a dull router bit, feeding the wood to fast, all of the above. If you are having to deal with routing against the grain you might be able to climb cut just the area where the grain rises.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View ichbinpete's profile

ichbinpete

109 posts in 1344 days


#5 posted 01-07-2013 05:16 PM

I think looking back, I probably should have lowered and climbed in to it. I just thought it was weird that my first pass gave me an incredibly clean cut, but when I made the second pass (less material), it was tearing out. That’s on the DADO’s.

I think my rabbeting bit might be a little dull\dirty so I definitely need to look at cleaning\sharpening\replacing it.

-- It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

View a1Jim's profile (online now)

a1Jim

112086 posts in 2230 days


#6 posted 01-07-2013 05:23 PM

I would never every try a climb cut on a table saw only a router table. I think you have the best idea on cleaning and sharpening plus light cuts. Sometimes no matter you do you get tear out ,that’s why it’s always best to plan on running extra material when making any molding.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View ichbinpete's profile

ichbinpete

109 posts in 1344 days


#7 posted 01-07-2013 05:27 PM

thanks and noted.

For a frame with a routed outside edge, would you run that through after glue up? As I said previously, I routed all my profiles before glue up, and well it left me with very little outside material for clamping….

-- It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

View jumbojack's profile

jumbojack

1178 posts in 1277 days


#8 posted 01-07-2013 05:33 PM

I feel your pain. This learning curve, is fraught with many “Oh Crap” moments. Learn from them, try to fix them, but move on, it is not the end of the world.
That said lets move on. Here is a clamp that does not care too much about rounded corners. It will clamp up some pretty massive frames and can be altered to do just about any size:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/63446
I agree with Jim about the tear out. CLEAN your bits, when they get dull you can hone them lightly with a diamond board. But tear out on the back side of a rabbet, unless it shows on the face is not a big deal in my book.

-- Made in America, with American made tools....Shopsmith

View a1Jim's profile (online now)

a1Jim

112086 posts in 2230 days


#9 posted 01-07-2013 05:37 PM

I think your right it might be easier to clamp after if’s glued together,as long as you able to control the assembled frame with out putting to much strain on you corners. This will depend on what kind of joinery you use on the corners.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View jumbojack's profile

jumbojack

1178 posts in 1277 days


#10 posted 01-07-2013 05:59 PM

Large frames are dicey on a router table. I quit trying after I found this clamp. Controlling anything over about 30” is tough. Pausing to regrip causes burns and a laundry list of other maladys. Tear out on the corners would be really hard to control.

-- Made in America, with American made tools....Shopsmith

View ichbinpete's profile

ichbinpete

109 posts in 1344 days


#11 posted 01-07-2013 06:03 PM

my tear out on the ends wasn’t bad at all surprisingly, just my straight bit cuts

-- It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

View Bsmith's profile

Bsmith

305 posts in 1323 days


#12 posted 01-07-2013 06:20 PM

Sounds like a productive day in the shop! You learned a lot! ;-) Been there, done that!

-- Bryan

View a1Jim's profile (online now)

a1Jim

112086 posts in 2230 days


#13 posted 01-07-2013 08:58 PM

I just posted this re clamping miters I thought it might help.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/45150

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View RonInOhio's profile

RonInOhio

720 posts in 1517 days


#14 posted 01-07-2013 10:04 PM

These are disappointing moments in the building process but valuable in that we can learn a lot from them.
Makes me really think about using pine or some cheaper material to use for prototypes on projects that use expensive woods.

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3359 posts in 1466 days


#15 posted 01-07-2013 10:11 PM

I have had good luck routing dados in mirror frames after assembly. I removed the fence on my router table, which gave me a nice stable base to rout from.
Is seems to me that routing the exterior profile post-glueup might work as well.

As far as the miters, you’re on your own.
A1 Jim made a nice post recently on miter techniques.

Best of luck!

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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