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Blog entry by flatboarder posted 960 days ago 1260 reads 1 time favorited 18 comments Add to Favorites Watch

Hello Peoples, I know Iv’e asked this question before, maybe a couple of times but I need to ask it again, thanks for your understanding. I am trying to mill out my fourth load ” for this project” of quater sawn White Oak. It’s 8/4” select rough cut. I flatten the concave side first, flip the board on end and plane the other side, Whats happening is as I’m planning the the other side, after a few passes where its taking full cuts the board is now starting to bow. Oh yeah the board is 8/4×5 1/2” x 51” long by now its probably 1 3/4 to 1 15/16” thick. Am I taking out too much wood at one time, My objective is to get to 3/4” thick by 3” wide by 51” long. Should I resaw first before I worry about milling both sides flat and If so how thick should I resaw off, so that Im sure to have enough to get a 3/4” finnished product. Any help here would be real nice This is just about to drive me crazy. I can cut the boards down to shorter pieces and not have any problems It just when i try to get these long 51” rails do I have this problem.

-- Ive cut this board three times and its still too short?



18 comments so far

View David Craig's profile

David Craig

2135 posts in 1741 days


#1 posted 960 days ago

I would work on just getting one side flat and then resaw. Sometimes, when a board is just flattened on both sides, you end up with a wedge. Flattening only makes a board level to itself on one end, but not in relation to the other side. Thicknessing is much different than flattening. Resawing would help get you on a level keel IMO.

David

-- There is little that is simple when it comes to making a simple box.

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3334 posts in 1446 days


#2 posted 960 days ago

It sounds like more material is being removed from one side than the other. Once one face is jointed, plane the other side. Once the second face is smooth, flip the board end for end each pass to remove material equally from both faces.
Also – how wet is the wood? If the moisture content is above 15-17% it can be problematic because the wood has not yet stabilized.
Once in a while I run into white oak that is “reaction wood.” This means that the wood as it was oriented in the tree was built for tensile stresses on one side. When you cut it open, it will bow severely. If you truly have reaction wood, then you may not be able to resaw this stock. The wetter it is or the thinner the stock – the worse the reaction.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View flatboarder's profile

flatboarder

99 posts in 1489 days


#3 posted 960 days ago

The lumber is at 7% mc so i know thats not the problem. I do flip the board on end when im thicknessing the board but I’m just trying ti get it ready to resaw. What do you think I need to resaw it to to get 3/4” finnished product. 7/8” , 1”. Oh yeah One other thing too. i noticed that when Its starts to bow while I’m running it throught the planner it gets stuck in the planner as well. Yeah I’m not joining both sides just the one there. I guess theres so many things it could be its hard to tell. The company I buy my lumber from said the they sold alot of this wood to other customers and have not heard back with any problems. he was so nice that he sent me a little over 100 bf and wouldn’t charge me anything. I’m still gonna pay for the shipping whether he likes it or not. But its beautiful wood hardley no flaws. I think Ive seen two knots out of the whole load. Maybe I’m just taking out too much off one side while its in the planner I like to try and get all the boards I’m milling to the same thickness at this point and there has been maybe an 1/8” difference so some of the boards I’m having to take out more just to get there. I dont remember ever having this problem before. My shop has a/c and heat so I keep it around 70 Degrees year round. well insulated. I wish I knew the problem here. I just bought a book called understanding wood man this is an awesome book.

-- Ive cut this board three times and its still too short?

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112015 posts in 2210 days


#4 posted 960 days ago

It sounds like your wood is not dry. when building it’s best to rough cut your material let it stabilize at least 3days and much longer if you can. you have to be careful where you store your wood and that it has equal exposure to air on both sides. If you store wood say flat on a table or the floor the side facing up will dry much faster than the side laying flat this will cause the wood to cup. Some times you can add moisture to the convex side and have the board flatten out. another point is when you plane wood it’s important to plane both sides equally to manage the moisture content.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View flatboarder's profile

flatboarder

99 posts in 1489 days


#5 posted 960 days ago

Hello Jim Long time, Yeah thats the only thing i can even begin to think the problem might be. I mean I let it sit up in the shop for a while before I start working with it. Heck wood that was in my shop for over a year was doing it. Maybe I’m just trying too much at one time . It is 8/4 so maybe I’ll try to take off a little bit resaw it and see what that does. i’ll sticker it after i resaw your right one side is always close to the table top maybe Ill get a rack system and put one every 24” I wonder why its binding in the planer though. I use to have the pressure infeed, outfeed rollers set at .034 below the knives but it was real bad at sticking so I moved it back to .024” also I put the chip breaker at the same .024”. The guys at PM had told me to make the chip breaker even with the arc of the knives but the book says to put it at .024”. this kind of stuff drives me insane man. which is not hard to do from the beginning. Thanks everybody for the help.

-- Ive cut this board three times and its still too short?

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112015 posts in 2210 days


#6 posted 960 days ago

Hi back at you :))
The fact that you keep your shop at 70 degrees strengthens the case for the exposed side of the wood drying much faster than the unexposed side of the wood. As far as you planner goes you might check to make sure your infeed and outfeed tables are clean and waxed and that you roller spring tension is even.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View Sawdust4Blood's profile

Sawdust4Blood

347 posts in 1654 days


#7 posted 960 days ago

I would definitely resaw. If for no other reason, you’re starting out at 8/4 and ending at 3/4 which means if you don’t resaw more than half your lumber is going into shavings.

Jim knows a lot more than me but if there was any way possible, I would joint one side, plane the opposite side, and then resaw down the middle. That would leave you with two pieces that have fresh cut faces on both sides and should still have a skosh more than 3/4 inch thickness (unless it has a lot of bowing, twisting or cupping). Let that sit long enough to stabilize and then mill to finally dimension (taking from both sides as Jim and Pinto pointed out). If you can’t quite get two 3/4 pieces because you need to mill out that much bowing, cupping, or twisting, at least this should leave you a 3/4 and a 1/2 rather than one 3/4 and a giant pile of wood shaving.

-- Greg, Severn MD

View MoshupTrail's profile

MoshupTrail

291 posts in 1113 days


#8 posted 959 days ago

Clearly your wood has internal stresses.
Another thought… How was the wood growing before it was cut? (I realize you can’t tell) Was it under stress while growing? (such as a branch, or a tree growing on a slope so the trunk is not vertical) Beyond that I have to agree with the others: re-saw and let it dry more (possibly it was kiln dried so that the exterior is 7% but the interior is wetter) but the bottom line is if you remove material and the board moves, then that layer was under a different stress than the interior. If it’s a moisture problem it can be solved by drying, but if the wood is stressed internally to begin with then you are out of luck and will just have to use small pieces.

-- Some problems are best solved with an optimistic approach. Optimism shines a light on alternatives that are otherwise not visible.

View lewis62's profile

lewis62

73 posts in 1271 days


#9 posted 959 days ago

I have had both kiln and air dried stock move. A few questions,
do you have moisture meter
was lumber air or kiln dried
do you have humidifier in shop with your heat and cooling.
when and where do you check moisture on boards, before or after milling, edge ,side or middle of board.
I can check moisture of cleaned face of stock at 8% on the end and get a reading of 20 % in middle of board after a year of drying. My rule of thumb, 4/4 stock sits for a few weeks, 6/4 stock a least month, 8/4 stock at least 2 months, gets it to be even to my shop envirment.Drying wood double thickness is not double time ,it is more like the square or even cube of time.I joint 1 side and 1 face then resaw 1 board off, joint 1 face again resaw 1board.check moisture then stack , use identical stickers and stack on a level surface. Put lots of weight on top to keep from moving,concrete blocks, paint cans, anything heavy, and wait,and wait, get it.Check MC content at several areas of same board if ok start using if not even wait some more.This is what works for me, hope it helps.

View flatboarder's profile

flatboarder

99 posts in 1489 days


#10 posted 959 days ago

Thanks for the help there, I do have a moisture meter and i check in three different places, ends, middle. Like I said some of the wood that did this was in my shop for over a year so it had plenty of time to equal out. I dont have a Humidifier. I live in north Fl. I’m going to try and resaw one of the boards I milled yesterday. Just to see what happens I’ll check the moisture then and see what it says. Im not sure that Its internal stress but possible because I have bought four seperate orders and there clearly not the same tree. I’m thinking it has something to do with my shop, where I’m located or maybe my machines, I dont see how that would because I had two planers and both of them did the same thingunless its my jointer. Maybe Its something to do with the longer stock. The tables are definetly flat within .003. I think I’ll order another straight edge mine have been dropped a few times, Ouch especially the 48” starrett that one cost a pretty penny. My Jointer is a General International 8” 80-200l. I put a Byrd head in after I bought it. Thats also dead on the money. within .0025 I cant see how that could be it as well. Thanks again for your response. They all were helpful.

-- Ive cut this board three times and its still too short?

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8476 posts in 2281 days


#11 posted 959 days ago

if your lumber is registering 7%mc and you live in florida it might mean that your wood it drier than your shop and it’s actually absorbing moisture which means that it hasn’t stabilized yet to it’s surrounding.

sticker your lumber so that it has equal air movement on all sides and let it sit and acclimate to your shop area and the moisture in your air.

I would definitely joint 1 face, and resaw your raw boards and yield 2×3/4” boards out of each of those 8/4 or at least 3/4” and 1/2” boards otherwise it’s such a waste of material to plane the whole thing (you are making shavings out of an entire board worth of material there). usually 8/4 material is used when you want 1.5” thick boards, but for 3/4” you’re better off going with 4/4 OR resaw your 8/4 to double the worth

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View flatboarder's profile

flatboarder

99 posts in 1489 days


#12 posted 959 days ago

Im here now at the shop I just checked the MC. And 8% is the majic number. I going to resaw one of those pcs now and see what happens. Yeah I always resaw thicker stock I cant afford ro waste money for sure. You know , like I said before earlier that the same thing happened to stock qswo that I had in my shop ,stickerd for over a year. This type of lumber is air dried for a year then kiln dried the rest of the way. I purchase it from a reputable company in PA. I know that qswo is A little tricky and that it does require special attention. Any way here we go on the resaw.thanks

-- Ive cut this board three times and its still too short?

View flatboarder's profile

flatboarder

99 posts in 1489 days


#13 posted 959 days ago

Sorry im doing this on my phone at the shop. I hate this phone.

-- Ive cut this board three times and its still too short?

View lewis62's profile

lewis62

73 posts in 1271 days


#14 posted 959 days ago

Okay. Now the jointer, mine is a grizzly 6 inch, 18 years old, thought it was set up correctly for years but always had trouble getting longer boards straight. Manual was no help on how to get both tables in line. Just found how to do it a year ago .Now works great.out feed and infeed were low on out side , high in middle.Knives are set to zero out with out feed, so in feed must be in line with it.Mine was out over.015 does not seam like much but it is. Had some brass shim stock put it in dovetail keways to raise table to get in line.works two 6 ft boards jionted edges together and no gap anywhere. Shiming the dovetail slides is the easy way, hard way would be to file edges so they line up. Then remeber to check every so often that shims did not slip. Oh my shims were about 3/4 of way down you would have to play with placement to get right angle tilt to align tables. Trying to help . Good luck.

View flatboarder's profile

flatboarder

99 posts in 1489 days


#15 posted 958 days ago

alrighty den, The Jointer is fine, The planer is fine, the wood is fine, The operator, well there’s alot to be said about him. Just not enough time or room. One thing is for sure I screw up more than I do up. Is it ok to say screw up, I hope so since Ive done said it twice. I use that word alot in my shop I guess its just habit. I’m sorry I’ll use joint next time. Thats more like it I joint it up I guesss that dont work either. Anyway , Mr Lewis62 what did you use to find out that your tables were out of co-plane and On the infeed side does the shim just slide up and down when you set your debth of cut? or what . How does that work. I double checked and tripled checked my Jointer, Planer and Bandsaw. I resawed two of the new boads today and they warped like crazy man. I mean it was live action. So after careful and long contemplation and 231 pages of,” Understanding wood” 2nd edition. I determind that it was 90% me and 10% somebody that use to be me. Naw just kidding. Better I cut the stock as close to the width as i feel is safe and let it sit for a while. I’m sure it cant hurt. I did have a positive resaw experience with a boad that I did just that to about a month ago. Bottom line is Its even the wood or the “Internal Stress” or the over anxious want to be wood worker. That be me. I’m going to try and post some pitcures so everyone can see what happened. The last pitcure will be the old boad that i milled up a month ago. Too bad it had a couple of knots It would had been perfect. Oh yeah Jim how do you tell if the springs have the right amount of tension on the planers infeed and outfeed rollers? Ok My mistake It took me forever to figure out how to upload those pitcures. The first Pitcure is the board that I milled a month ago. the other two are the boards I milled just yesterday or the day before. Depends on which day this is. Sorry.

-- Ive cut this board three times and its still too short?

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