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Old Sargent Planes

36K views 82 replies 26 participants last post by  AnthonyReed 
#1 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
 

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#2 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
I have a type 1 407 - they work really nice. Good catch.
 

Attachments

#3 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
Beautiful plane. Are you planning to try to repair the horn or leave as is?
 

Attachments

#4 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
I think I'm going to leave it Wayne.
 

Attachments

#5 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
Great luck Don, nice score.
 

Attachments

#6 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
Youuuuu suck.
 

Attachments

#7 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
a beautiful restoration don, i can really see how aquiring these would become a sought out hobby and the use of them when needed, thanks for showing these beautiful tools…
 

Attachments

#8 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
I am green with envy Don! That is for sure. That is a fantastic find!

BTW, I missed/lost a bid for a Type1 408 on fleaBay a few months back, but still think about it. Got out bid at $75.

}:^(
 

Attachments

#9 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
So you're saying $10 was a good deal? {I'm still smiling }
 

Attachments

#10 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
$10? There's a giant hoover sound coming from your way. The japanning on that is amazing too, what a find.
 

Attachments

#11 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
Very nice Don, congrats. You have the touch.
 

Attachments

#12 ·
The type 1 #409 Pre lateral

I picked up a type 1 #409. I thought it was a Stanley when I first picked it up because it had a Stanley Iron of the correct vintage. A quickly noticed some markings behind the frog that shouldn't be there. A little rubbing and a number 409 immerged. At that point I knew the plane was coming home with me.

The day before I bought this plane I was fishing through a tool box and came across an old 2" Sargent iron. I thought, I may need that someday, so I asked the guy what he wanted for it. He said $5. I said I was thinking more like $3. No go so I headed back to throw the iron back in the box when he said, I'll give you the whole box for $8. Sold. The box has at least 10 nice file handles, a broken distton but brass nuts, files and other goodies. The iron is a type 2, but it will fit nicely on this type one plane until I stumble across a true type 1.

What luck to buy a type 1 Sargent with a Stanley iron when I just bought the Sargent iron the day before!

The type information came from 2 locations basically, Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

Type 1 is 1887-1901

So here it is, with some notes about the type as I understand it.

Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Plane Wood


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Wood Shoulder plane


Note the round headed screws.

Wood Auto part Tool Metal Kitchen utensil


The japanning is close to 100%. Other than the chip in the tote, this plane is in excellent condition.

Wood Musical instrument Audio equipment Auto part Metal


According to the type information, the type 1 lever caps had a period along with the numbers. Types 1, 2 and 3 have the number plus a dot cast into the lever cap. Type 2 may have just number. Is it possible this got changes, or is it possible that some of the type 1's made it out without the dot as well?

Wood Gas Font Door Metal


Brown Gas Wood Electric blue Metal


And after the clean up

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper Finger


Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Jack plane Shoulder plane


Scrub plane Shoulder plane Wood Tool Plane
Beautiful plane and nicely restored.
 

Attachments

#13 ·
Typing the type 2 or 3 409c (or maybe 5409)

So again I find myself engrossed in the type information found in Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

I bought this because real early corrugated planes are not as common place as some others. And as usually dating them can be a bit of a challenge.

The lever cap has the number and the cap, which means it could be a type 1, 2 or 3.

Wood Tool Metal Pattern Wood stain


The frog puts it around a type 3, assuming all type 2's had the horseshoe lateral.

Hand tool Wood Tool Metalworking hand tool Knife


The base also put it at a type 3. The thin casting and squared post seem to correspond to type 3 as well.

Wood Gas Metal Auto part Household hardware


The adjuster however puts it at a type 2, with the steel insert. The steel insert however is on ALL 5400 series.

Amber Electric blue Wood Metal Fashion accessory


The iron is also a clear type 2 iron with the oval logo and USA in the center. For some reason though, Heckel did a separate study on the irons, so you'll need to match date, not types, so you have a type 1 iron, that's typically on a type 1 and type 2 plane.

So here it is in all its glory.

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Rebate plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Wood


Wood Bumper Grille Automotive parking light Hood


My guess at this point is I found one of the Sargent enthusiast well sought after 5409, but a least a very early 409c, with Sargent using up some of the parts. Of course there is also the possibility that its a very late 5409, with sargent using some of the new 409C inventory on the plane. Further investigation may be needed.

EDIT:
Here is another which is pretty much identical.

Plane Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Wood Gas Automotive tire Hardwood Auto part


EDIT **

I now believe the first is a 5409, the second a #409, here is why.

Working through the criteria for a 5400 series.
Here is what they both have.
- corrugated
- a blank cap
- Cutter marked with Oval Trademark with U.S.A. in center
- Two-piece cutter adjusting nut, brass with a steel insert for the threads
- PAT. FEB. 3 -91 on lateral lever (this is for both type 2 and type 3 laterals. They were issued the same day)
- They can have either the horseshoe or 2nd pivot lateral style to be a 5400 series. These both have the second.
- # 400 series plane number might or might not be on plane body. usually not, neither of these have it
- Rosewood knob and tote

Here is where they are different.

To be a 5400 series it must have the thin casting. So determining the thin casting isn't as straight forward. Here are my 2.

Sports equipment Wood Door Gas Audio equipment


So look not only at the side walls, but the back of the mouth. The difference in the casting is evident. I believe the one on the right is the thick casting, and the one on the left is thin.

So I weighed them as well. The one on the right was 25.6 oz, where the one on the left was 21.6 oz.
 

Attachments

#14 ·
Typing the type 2 or 3 409c (or maybe 5409)

So again I find myself engrossed in the type information found in Dave Heckel's guide, and HMike's Blog.

I bought this because real early corrugated planes are not as common place as some others. And as usually dating them can be a bit of a challenge.

The lever cap has the number and the cap, which means it could be a type 1, 2 or 3.

Wood Tool Metal Pattern Wood stain


The frog puts it around a type 3, assuming all type 2's had the horseshoe lateral.

Hand tool Wood Tool Metalworking hand tool Knife


The base also put it at a type 3. The thin casting and squared post seem to correspond to type 3 as well.

Wood Gas Metal Auto part Household hardware


The adjuster however puts it at a type 2, with the steel insert. The steel insert however is on ALL 5400 series.

Amber Electric blue Wood Metal Fashion accessory


The iron is also a clear type 2 iron with the oval logo and USA in the center. For some reason though, Heckel did a separate study on the irons, so you'll need to match date, not types, so you have a type 1 iron, that's typically on a type 1 and type 2 plane.

So here it is in all its glory.

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Rebate plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Wood


Wood Bumper Grille Automotive parking light Hood


My guess at this point is I found one of the Sargent enthusiast well sought after 5409, but a least a very early 409c, with Sargent using up some of the parts. Of course there is also the possibility that its a very late 5409, with sargent using some of the new 409C inventory on the plane. Further investigation may be needed.

EDIT:
Here is another which is pretty much identical.

Plane Smoothing plane Scrub plane Shoulder plane Rebate plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Wood Gas Automotive tire Hardwood Auto part


EDIT **

I now believe the first is a 5409, the second a #409, here is why.

Working through the criteria for a 5400 series.
Here is what they both have.
- corrugated
- a blank cap
- Cutter marked with Oval Trademark with U.S.A. in center
- Two-piece cutter adjusting nut, brass with a steel insert for the threads
- PAT. FEB. 3 -91 on lateral lever (this is for both type 2 and type 3 laterals. They were issued the same day)
- They can have either the horseshoe or 2nd pivot lateral style to be a 5400 series. These both have the second.
- # 400 series plane number might or might not be on plane body. usually not, neither of these have it
- Rosewood knob and tote

Here is where they are different.

To be a 5400 series it must have the thin casting. So determining the thin casting isn't as straight forward. Here are my 2.

Sports equipment Wood Door Gas Audio equipment


So look not only at the side walls, but the back of the mouth. The difference in the casting is evident. I believe the one on the right is the thick casting, and the one on the left is thin.

So I weighed them as well. The one on the right was 25.6 oz, where the one on the left was 21.6 oz.
What ever the vintage she's a real beauty. Collector or user for you; of the Ft Knox of hand planes?
 

Attachments

#30 ·
Determining a 408 versus 5408

I bought this hoping it was a 5408, but knowing I would love to add it to my collection even as a type 3 #408. If you look at my last blog, in this series I compared what I believe to be a 409 and a 5409. So lets look at this new 408.

Working through the criteria for a 5400 series.
Here is what this 408 has.
- corrugated sole
- a blank cap (should have the number and a dot on the back though)
- Cutter marked with Oval Trademark with U.S.A. in center (type 2 Iron)
- Two-piece cutter adjusting nut, brass with a steel insert for the threads
- PAT. FEB. 3-91 on lateral lever (this is for both type 2 and type 3 laterals. They were issued patents the same day)
- They can have either the horseshoe or 2nd pivot lateral style to be a 5400 series. This has the second.
- # 400 series plane number might or might not be on plane body. usually not, no number on the 408.

Fluid Musical instrument Bottle Circle Close-up


Brown Wood Amber Tints and shades Font


Here is where I'm not sure.
Tote is mahogany. OK, I'm sure its mahogany and not rosewood, so that make its a 408 instead of a 5408, in theory anyhow.

To be a 5400 series it must have the thin casting. So determining the thin casting isn't as straight forward. Here it is.

Wood Metal Art Electronics accessory


I think its the thin casting. But until I find a 408 to compare. I can't be sure.

Here it is, just as I bought it. Not much for me to do but enjoy it.

Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Rebate plane Shoulder plane


Sports equipment Wood Auto part Hardwood Rectangle


Tool Grey Composite material Rectangle Metal
 

Attachments

#31 ·
Determining a 408 versus 5408

I bought this hoping it was a 5408, but knowing I would love to add it to my collection even as a type 3 #408. If you look at my last blog, in this series I compared what I believe to be a 409 and a 5409. So lets look at this new 408.

Working through the criteria for a 5400 series.
Here is what this 408 has.
- corrugated sole
- a blank cap (should have the number and a dot on the back though)
- Cutter marked with Oval Trademark with U.S.A. in center (type 2 Iron)
- Two-piece cutter adjusting nut, brass with a steel insert for the threads
- PAT. FEB. 3-91 on lateral lever (this is for both type 2 and type 3 laterals. They were issued patents the same day)
- They can have either the horseshoe or 2nd pivot lateral style to be a 5400 series. This has the second.
- # 400 series plane number might or might not be on plane body. usually not, no number on the 408.

Fluid Musical instrument Bottle Circle Close-up


Brown Wood Amber Tints and shades Font


Here is where I'm not sure.
Tote is mahogany. OK, I'm sure its mahogany and not rosewood, so that make its a 408 instead of a 5408, in theory anyhow.

To be a 5400 series it must have the thin casting. So determining the thin casting isn't as straight forward. Here it is.

Wood Metal Art Electronics accessory


I think its the thin casting. But until I find a 408 to compare. I can't be sure.

Here it is, just as I bought it. Not much for me to do but enjoy it.

Plane Scrub plane Smoothing plane Rebate plane Shoulder plane


Sports equipment Wood Auto part Hardwood Rectangle


Tool Grey Composite material Rectangle Metal
Are you sure thats mahogany? It looks a lot like a darker rosewood. Although I can see a bit of porus grain on the tote.
 

Attachments

#39 ·

Attachments

#42 ·
Fulton or Fulton Tool Company.

You will find more information and more pictures on my blog.

The problem with being on a quest for knowledge is the endless circles you often get stuck in, and the off roads that follow. I'm always looking for information on older Sargent hand planes. So recently I bought a hand plane off ebay that is an obvious early Sargent 409. It's got Rosewood, a type 4 base, with a type 3 frog, and a "Fulton Tool Co" cutter.

The type 4 base dates it to 1911 to 1918.

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Block plane Rebate plane


Guitar accessory String instrument accessory Musical instrument Musical instrument accessory Wood


I know Sargent made most of the Fulton planes for Sears, so I wanted to see what they were.

So off I go to find out what "Fulton Tool Co" is. My original research brought me to one of 2 conclusions. The first possibility was the Fulton Tool Company was a steel manufacture that made tools and accessories along with plane irons. The second was Fulton Tool Com were early Fulton planes.

Further research showed all of the planes I could find with Fulton Tool Co cutters seemed to be early Sargent's. So could these just be Fulton? Was the Sears branded Fulton and Fulton Tool Company the same?

Even further research shows that the Craftsman brand came about in 1927, whereas Sears started selling Fulton in either 1905 or 1908. This lead me to believe it was possible that Fulton Tool Company could have been the early branding, and after Sears started to market Craftsman, Fulton became a secondary line.

This theory was further complicated when I bought a United Hardware and Tool Company catalog reprint from 1925. This shows the following photos.

The Logo



And the hand planes




So its fairly obvious that in 1925 these planes were NOT Sargent made. But could they still be the Sears rebranded?

So do I need to start finding early Craftsman catalogs to work this out? According to this site, (http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/craftsman-early-tools.html#fulton) In the pre-Craftsman days, Fulton appeared to be the most popular brand offered by the Sears for tools such as saws, axes, planes, chisels, hammers, pliers, and many other items. References to Fulton tools appear in Sears catalogs at least as early as 1908, with illustrations showing either "Fulton" or "Fulton Tool Co." on the tools.

There is some further interesting history (http://www.searsarchives.com/history/index.htm) about Sears.

So at least for right now, I'm going to go on the assumption that either "Fulton Tool Co." or "Fulton" Branded tools where marketed rebranded tools for Sears. "Fulton Tool Co." probably existed prior to 1927. To be determined will be when Sargent stopped manufacturing them. Since later model Fulton's are made by Sargent as well, they must have won the contract back at some point.

It's known that Sears put the contract out to bid for the tools, I don't know the details or derations of the contracts, so that's some more information to be gathered.

I hope you found this interesting, and please PM me if you have ANY information regarding anything about Sargent hand planes.
 

Attachments

#43 ·
Fulton or Fulton Tool Company.

You will find more information and more pictures on my blog.

The problem with being on a quest for knowledge is the endless circles you often get stuck in, and the off roads that follow. I'm always looking for information on older Sargent hand planes. So recently I bought a hand plane off ebay that is an obvious early Sargent 409. It's got Rosewood, a type 4 base, with a type 3 frog, and a "Fulton Tool Co" cutter.

The type 4 base dates it to 1911 to 1918.

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Block plane Rebate plane


Guitar accessory String instrument accessory Musical instrument Musical instrument accessory Wood


I know Sargent made most of the Fulton planes for Sears, so I wanted to see what they were.

So off I go to find out what "Fulton Tool Co" is. My original research brought me to one of 2 conclusions. The first possibility was the Fulton Tool Company was a steel manufacture that made tools and accessories along with plane irons. The second was Fulton Tool Com were early Fulton planes.

Further research showed all of the planes I could find with Fulton Tool Co cutters seemed to be early Sargent's. So could these just be Fulton? Was the Sears branded Fulton and Fulton Tool Company the same?

Even further research shows that the Craftsman brand came about in 1927, whereas Sears started selling Fulton in either 1905 or 1908. This lead me to believe it was possible that Fulton Tool Company could have been the early branding, and after Sears started to market Craftsman, Fulton became a secondary line.

This theory was further complicated when I bought a United Hardware and Tool Company catalog reprint from 1925. This shows the following photos.

The Logo



And the hand planes




So its fairly obvious that in 1925 these planes were NOT Sargent made. But could they still be the Sears rebranded?

So do I need to start finding early Craftsman catalogs to work this out? According to this site, (http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/craftsman-early-tools.html#fulton) In the pre-Craftsman days, Fulton appeared to be the most popular brand offered by the Sears for tools such as saws, axes, planes, chisels, hammers, pliers, and many other items. References to Fulton tools appear in Sears catalogs at least as early as 1908, with illustrations showing either "Fulton" or "Fulton Tool Co." on the tools.

There is some further interesting history (http://www.searsarchives.com/history/index.htm) about Sears.

So at least for right now, I'm going to go on the assumption that either "Fulton Tool Co." or "Fulton" Branded tools where marketed rebranded tools for Sears. "Fulton Tool Co." probably existed prior to 1927. To be determined will be when Sargent stopped manufacturing them. Since later model Fulton's are made by Sargent as well, they must have won the contract back at some point.

It's known that Sears put the contract out to bid for the tools, I don't know the details or derations of the contracts, so that's some more information to be gathered.

I hope you found this interesting, and please PM me if you have ANY information regarding anything about Sargent hand planes.
Ever expanding the puzzle…

Thank you Don.
 

Attachments

#46 ·
Sargent #409 with a Brass name plate.

I saw a posting on Ebay that looked like this:

Nickel Household hardware Tool Metal Auto part


Besides the upside down lever cap, something looked different. I thought the logo looked brass, so I contacted the seller. These Sargent planes with brass inserts were produced in limited runs sometime between 1927 and 1939. I put a max bid and won it for the exact max amount. How lucky is that? This is the first time I've seen one on eBay, and there were 3 at the same time, all different sellers. Talk about coincidence. A #407 had a starting bid of $270 (it did not sell) and a 414 that I lost the bid on. I wasn't as aggressive on the 414, but glad I got the #409. It'll fit in my collection well. The #414 had the brass inlay in the sole.

You'll note some of the inserts were rectangular and some were oval.

Here are the #407 and #414 off ebay just for documentation.

Wood Musical instrument Font Hardwood Carmine


Motor vehicle Rectangle Gold Automotive exterior Font


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Block plane Jack plane


Brown Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Wood Gas


**

And finally here is my #409

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Rebate plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Wood


Hood Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Bumper Automotive design


Sleeve Bag Wood Hood Automotive exterior
 

Attachments

#47 ·
Sargent #409 with a Brass name plate.

I saw a posting on Ebay that looked like this:

Nickel Household hardware Tool Metal Auto part


Besides the upside down lever cap, something looked different. I thought the logo looked brass, so I contacted the seller. These Sargent planes with brass inserts were produced in limited runs sometime between 1927 and 1939. I put a max bid and won it for the exact max amount. How lucky is that? This is the first time I've seen one on eBay, and there were 3 at the same time, all different sellers. Talk about coincidence. A #407 had a starting bid of $270 (it did not sell) and a 414 that I lost the bid on. I wasn't as aggressive on the 414, but glad I got the #409. It'll fit in my collection well. The #414 had the brass inlay in the sole.

You'll note some of the inserts were rectangular and some were oval.

Here are the #407 and #414 off ebay just for documentation.

Wood Musical instrument Font Hardwood Carmine


Motor vehicle Rectangle Gold Automotive exterior Font


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Block plane Jack plane


Brown Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Wood Gas


**

And finally here is my #409

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Rebate plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Wood


Hood Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Bumper Automotive design


Sleeve Bag Wood Hood Automotive exterior
Pretty nice looking plane Don.

Is that a stack of old plane boxes in the background of picture 2? Wow
 

Attachments

#53 ·
A type 1 #414 restored.

This is an ebay find. I took a chance thinking it might be a type 1. This time it paid off.

The before:
Smoothing plane Scrub plane Plane Shoulder plane Wood


Wood Hardwood Fashion accessory Beige Metal


And the now:

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Rebate plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Sky Cloud Automotive tire Wood Bumper


Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Wood Automotive wheel system Rectangle


It's complete and all look parts are period correct.
 

Attachments

#54 ·
A type 1 #414 restored.

This is an ebay find. I took a chance thinking it might be a type 1. This time it paid off.

The before:
Smoothing plane Scrub plane Plane Shoulder plane Wood


Wood Hardwood Fashion accessory Beige Metal


And the now:

Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Rebate plane


Smoothing plane Plane Scrub plane Jack plane Block plane


Sky Cloud Automotive tire Wood Bumper


Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Wood Automotive wheel system Rectangle


It's complete and all look parts are period correct.
Awesome, as usual. Congrats on the Type1.
Love that last shot!
 

Attachments

#71 ·
A Sargent #5418 ready for Service.

In between getting a bunch of new old planes ready for resale I decided to resurrect this Sargent #5418.

This was one of those impulse buys. It was just a base and frog that had already been refinished. Anything in the #5400 series is fairly scarce, so I snapped it up.

This one has the 2 piece adjuster. I remade the tote from a piece of Honduras Rosewood.

Unfortunately the cutter is not the right vintage. It's a bit newer than the plane itself.









 
#72 ·
Nice job on the tote, Don, it matches the knob very well. In fact, the entire plane shines like $500-700! :)

Excellent restore. Good luck on the original cutter replacement!

So glad the 54xx series hasn't bit me yet…but after ONE more Auto-Set, and a few Sargent trannies, I may be ready for the big time!
 
#78 ·
No its not a Sargent 5409, but the other one?

More pictures on my blog

I've got a very strict rule about computers. After the 2nd cocktail, I don't return work emails and I don't buy on ebay. But, who follows rules after the 2nd cocktail?

Apparently not me. The work rule is easy. Who wants to work once the fun starts. So I made this impulse purchase. Its 2 planes. I thought one was a Sargent #5409. It was all there, the thin casting, the steel insert in the adjustment knob, the twisted lateral and a corrugated bottom.

The problem!

The problem was the corrugated bottom was on the "other plane".

A little bummed but I still had a decent type 3 Sargent 409. It's got an American Beauty cutter, so I know that's not original. I need to find out about the American Beauty part, but Sargent didn't make a cutter back then with the round hole at the bottom of the cutter.

The other surprise was I was sure the other plane was a Defiance. But it had a corrugated sole and I didn't think the Defiance came corrugated. Well come to find out, in 1939 (yep for 1 year) Defiance made a corrugated. Since the #1204 Defiance was made from 1932-1953, and the #1204C was only made in 1939 I'm going to assume it fairly rare.

But here is the Sargent type 3 #409 anyhow. Look for the Defiance in days to come.

If you know ANYTHING about the "American Beauty" Iron, I'd love to here from you. I know there is an American Beauty company in business today, I just don't know if it's the same, and they don't do planes anymore.



 
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