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Designing for chandeliers

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Blog entry by Don "Dances with Wood" Butler posted 1372 days ago 1098 reads 0 times favorited 13 comments Add to Favorites Watch

SWBMT (otherwise known as She Who Buys Me Tools), just a couple of days ago, said she would like to have hanging ceiling lamps where we now have a lamp on a table and a floor lamp.
Sounds reasonable. Let’s go buy them.
Well when we got to the store she saw the leaded glass shades on some of the lamps and that swayed her.
That’s OK, I like them too.
Then we got one for the kitchen, too, to hang over the table.
Oh, yeah.
Now I’m thinking about the installation and decided to design a carved plate to go on the ceiling. I think it may be called an escutcheon, but I’m not too clear on the exact word.
But, being the technogeek I am, I also thought about taking them down for cleaning and such and I thought I’d like to incorporate a quick disconnect for the power cord and have the chain on an open hook. That would make removal a snap.
So I designed this thing, whatever the correct word is, in the software that is part of the CarveWright machine.
cover plate?
Your can see by the dotted line how the work box in the ceiling will go nd there’s so extra room in there for a small receptacle to plug in the lamp.
So I question how to mount a small, single receptacle in the work box above. I would like to have it recessed in the carved cover plate so the plug from the lamp will be less obvious.
Your suggestions will be gratefully considered.

ddwwb

-- Will trade wife's yarn for tools.



13 comments so far

View Moron's profile

Moron

4666 posts in 2476 days


#1 posted 1372 days ago

I dont know if this will make sense but might I suggest something else for the following reason/s.

Thats a beautiful carved plate for the ceiling center piece but why hide it with a recepticle? It cuts out too much of the carving. It should also meet the electrical code and so far as know, you cant bury and electrical box soooooo

Could you but the electrical box/connection behind the carving, mount it to the back. Put a small hole through the middle of the carving and pass the electrical cord/chain etc., through it to suspend the light. Cut a hole in the ceiling big enough, in the right location,........put the carving on a hinge to the ceiling with a locking catch. ?

Good Luck

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

#2 posted 1372 days ago

The work box will be IN the ceiling as most ceiling fixtures have it. The carved plate will cover that, as most ceiling lights do, with a cover of some sort.
I don’t mean to have an entire outlet like there is in wall outlets, just one of these:

There’s room in the plate between the carving elements.

ddwwb

-- Will trade wife's yarn for tools.

View Jordan's profile

Jordan

1358 posts in 1708 days


#3 posted 1372 days ago

I don’t have any suggestions but that’s a very nice design.

-- http://www.jordanstraker.com

#4 posted 1372 days ago

Thanks, Jordan.
I intend on making a new design for each of the three lamps I have to hang.

ddwwb

-- Will trade wife's yarn for tools.

View Jordan's profile

Jordan

1358 posts in 1708 days


#5 posted 1372 days ago

I would like to ask you though – is there a hand held 3D scanner available for your Carvewright? Have you looked into that?

-- http://www.jordanstraker.com

#6 posted 1372 days ago

Jordan,
I have a 3D scanner that goes into the CarveWright’s bit holder. In scan mode it doesn’t run the motor and the scanner goes back and forth over any 3D object in the scan sled, digitizing the shape and placing the data onto the memory card. It can then be carved out as a copy.
Neat huh?

ddwwb

-- Will trade wife's yarn for tools.

#7 posted 1372 days ago

The first one is carved, cut out , sanded and sprayed white. Drying right now.
Here is the second design which features a shell motif with small rosettes and the stylized letter “B”.
The oval shape is sawn out of the rectangular blank.
The machine requires straight edges and 3.5” extra material on th eends so it stays under the feed rollers.

-- Will trade wife's yarn for tools.

#8 posted 1372 days ago

Here’s the first one with a single coat of spray enamel on it. It needs another sanding and then more paint. It can then be worked to accept the fitments for the lamp.

ddwwb

-- Will trade wife's yarn for tools.

View Bearpie's profile

Bearpie

2583 posts in 1601 days


#9 posted 1372 days ago

looks cool, will look great when finished and installed. How long a piece are you able to do through the Carvewright?

Erwin, Jacksonville, FL

-- Erwin, Jacksonville, FL

#10 posted 1372 days ago

Length of the workpiece is mostly irrelevant as long as it isn’t too heavy for the drive rollers to move. I just use good outboard roller stands to make sure long boards are well supported.

ddwwb

-- Will trade wife's yarn for tools.

View dlmckirdy's profile

dlmckirdy

195 posts in 1716 days


#11 posted 1372 days ago

Don, The outlet you show looks as though it is intended to snap into a square hole (with recesses for the locking tabs on either side). Could you recess the escuteheon to accept the outlet? You could hard wire the outlet inside the box, just as you would normally do a light fixture.

A second option would be to cut the required shaped hole in a flat metal cover plate for the box, and snap the outlet into that, and hard wire it into place. Cut a matching hole in the escutcheon for the recessed plug.

Either way, you might consider using a steel reinforcing strap recessed into the back side of the escutcheon, which spans between mounting bolts and supports the hook for the chain. I would feel safer using a cieling hook and a closed chain link rather than a closed eye screw with an open chain link,

Your designs look good. I can’t wait to see the entire installation/s.

-- Doug, Bakersfield, CA - I measured twice, cut it twice, and it is still too short!

#12 posted 1372 days ago

Doug, I wanted to have the receptacle hardwired inside, just as you describe.
Further, I wished to have the open hook, too.
The thing I question, though is the integrity of the box when there’s a glass and lead shade hanging on it. The box cover is secured only by two screws on opposite corners of the box. The hook would have to be drilled into the cover plate in this arrangement. I can do that. I used to make custom control boxes for industrial controls. We had to drill, punch and thread metal enclosures for all manner of guages and switches. I can work the metal.
I just question whether those two small screws can handle the weight over time.

ddwwb

-- Will trade wife's yarn for tools.

View dlmckirdy's profile

dlmckirdy

195 posts in 1716 days


#13 posted 1371 days ago

I have a lead crystal chandelier with about 24 12” crystal cylinders hanging from a standard cieling box which iss fastened to the joist by two 8d nails. This chandelier has been hanging there by the two #8 screws for over 20 years. If you fear the worst, you could through drill the box, and fasten a 2×4 spanning two joists with a threaded rod attached between it and the hook, taking the integrity (or lack of) of the box out of the picture.

By the way, cieling fans are routinely hung by those two screws, and many of them are not balanced, thus they are always putting a variable working load on the screws (why dont they fall? If I tried that, it would fall on me!)

-- Doug, Bakersfield, CA - I measured twice, cut it twice, and it is still too short!

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