I spent the day installing cabinets, I built, in a manufactured home. Kinda like spreading caviar on wonder bread. Actually it was a sales office. They were busy. I guess the depression is driving folks to these "bargains".
My sister bought a 12 year old one down in Nevada. In 12 years the outside trim was falling off. All the windows failed. The roof leaked and needed replaced. The dry wall was cracking. This was all just normal wear and tear. I've done a bit of work in them before and am shocked at how cheap these things are. I'm really shocked that people keep buying them. They are not that inexpensive.
In my part of the country it is illegal to build on many pieces of property, but you can put up one of these fancy trailer homes. Sometimes I think the government is really out to screw us. They sure want to control every little detail.
I put a spiritual value on the craftsmanship of my work. When I build something. I'm building for families and generations. Today I saw my work go to help tear down America. We buy crap and the worst the economy gets the more crappy crap we buy. It's not because it is cheaper. My cabinet bid was cheaper that the guy who was getting his cheap prefabs from HomeDespot. We have quit buying from small family size companies. That is what has driven them out of business. Not that Walmart is cheaper. We swallowed the lies.
The average American would never consider buying from a local furniture builder. That means that the local furniture builder has stopped trying to build affordable furniture. I see stuff imported from Asia, built by guys making $2.50 a day, selling for more than i would charge. I've seen the look of contempt from folks who could not believe that it would take me 4 weeks to build a piece of furniture.
I might just sound like a bitter old man. Would you believe I'm a very lucky guy. I'm one of the few that get to live the real American dream. Not the Donald Trump I'll f the next guy till I'm filth rich dream. When did ethics quit being part of business? No I'm talking about working to live, not living to work. We idolize the entrepreneurial spirit, but crush the reality of it. Maybe this has turned into a political rant, so I'll shut up and go dream some new furniture designs that will never get sold.
Hi Lee , Deferring to Sienfeld , I believe you would be burning you BRO or Manssiere , depending on whose side you were on . LOL Thanks for the humor !
That is the truth BIGSKY. How many jobs have we sent overseas that use to be done by American craftsmen. Yes they can do it cheaper in India, China, and Mexico. But by the same logic the government has poured billions into agriculture. I really don't believe in government subsidies, but maybe they could find a better simpler tax plan for the guy who only employs 2 people. The skills are traditionally passed down journeyman to apprentice, but if it takes days out of a persons work year to figure out all the different reports and deal with the bureaucracies just to keep one fellow working. Those skills will not be passed down. How many folks just get taught a few tricks and let lose rather than get to work with masters of a trade and really learn the art.
You know, there's another point where I often hear the price is too high. That too me, is somewhat shortsighted for number of reasons. I don't actually make the price. It's a combination of cost of goods plus, soft costs, and a profit. (someday)
One, I could get them made at a much lower price overseas, and sell them by the boatload. Or as my accountant suggested, build them to last for five years, so they're consumable. Not in my nature to do that. I'm more likely to try and make it last beyond the expected fifty year life span OF THE USER, not the product!
Or considering how much time and effort is saved, and with time being money, it would seem like a good addition to any shop. The increase in safety and accuracy would be enough for me to buy it.
One of the worst chores for me was to cut heavy sheet goods. Had I found any product to do what mine does, I would gladly have paid several hundred dollars for it, without giving it a second thought. After a short amount of use, it pays for itself, and from then on is making me money.
In my humble opinion, the whole world is back asswords. LOL
Well so many shops have tried to solve the problem by buying a $20,000.00 sliding table saw. How expensive is your product then? I figured out how many kitchens I would need to do to justify a line boring machine. If I had 10 employees and we did nothing but kitchens a boring machine would pay for it self. We out think our selves. An elegant solution is simple like the ezee-feed. I'm not yet sold on soft close technology…frankly I always thought those little plastic bumpers did a pretty good job.
the expensive tools-another flaw in our society in recent years. The need to buy the biggest, best, more efficient machine. I had this debate with people, recently, regarding farmers and their zillion dollar tractors. I was told that farmers have to buy the big machines because it saves them time in the fields and saves on fuel. Alas, in the end, the farmers can't make ends meet. (There are lots of factors with farmers (who by the way grow our FOOD)-same as the stories for LumberJocks) but I think that a common problem with all businesses is the investment in the tools that we are told that we "need".
I was thinking about this discussion yesterday and about the need to educate. I pictured the woodworkers uniting to create a major ad campaign that talked about saving the planet by buying for life rather than the disposal society.. that compared the price of one handmade piece to the cost of a "cheaper" piece.. and compared the two pieces re: quality. Then in the bottom of the ad there were local craftsman's contact information. Anyway. that was my vision.
I bought a 20,000 dollar saw but I didnt pay 20 grand, having said that I would have paid 20 grand had the "deal" not been dropped in my lap. The saw almost eliminates the need for a jointer, allows the "squaring of a sheet of plywood, allows one man to handle 5' x 10' sheets of material instead of two men, enables one to cut fancy veneer and melamines without chipping…........no more cabinets, door parts etc., out of square, no more returned parts due to chipping, hairline joints on large panels so contrary to what you are implying, the big expensive tool makes you more competitive, not more expensive.
I could say the same for an edgebander and a thickness sander. Had my bride had a little courage we would have bought both these tools years ago by cashing in a few mutaul funds and investments. (as it sits now the mutaul funds, RRSPs and investments arent worth much more then the deposit you pay on a case of beer) Putting a piece of 7/8" x 1 3/4" x 96' hardwood to the edge of an exposed gable would have taken seconds…..not hours. Sanding cabinet doors on a stroke sander is risky business and an average kitchen takes almost a week….....a thickness sander takes an hour. Doing the math its a…........ no brainer. The volume of work you can do in a month grows exponentially as do the profits. I dont have these two toys but I want them. Lucky me as I can use a friends toys for cheap.
Conversely a friend bought a CNC point to point router to the tune of about 50 grand just before the economic bubble popped. Plus the CAD programming, plus the training. I was at their shop just this week and watched three guys discuss what one guy should be doing. The panel on a floor to ceiling cabinet that houses two built in ovens wasnt CNC'd correctly. It took three guys almost 3 hours to find how to fix it. The panel was brought back to the CNC programmer for corrections and all decided that a new MDF panel was needed…......................means another CNC program, another sheet of MDF, another operation on the CNC and these owners scream about not making money…...............no %$#&2ing wonder. They entirely missed the fact that one guy could pick one sheet up and cut it out on the saw, mark the cutouts for ovens and cut the cut outs manually in a fraction of the time that CNC could do it. I'm not saying that CNC doesnt have a place becuase it does but the CNC cannot replace "common sense".
The soft close technology is expensive but…...............its some sweeeeet. Especially ina house full of pubescent teenage girls.
They all swear they are poor…..................I beg to differ.
On smaller farms I have to agree that buying a brand new 150,000 dollar tractor is just plain stupid. A field yields so many bushels of product that pays a given price per bushel. If one acre yields 1,000 bushels and each bushel pays 10 dollars….................its a fixed 10,000 dollar gross income. Whether you use a new 150,000 dollar tractor or a used 10,000 dollar tractor the end gross income doesnt change whether you get your crop off in a day, or five days. I wonder how many farmers passed basic arithmatic. I can understand why HUGE farms need big equipment as the crop will rot if you dont get it off the field.
I am always curious as to some local farmers who scream "no money" who run to the grocery store instead of planting a garden
I guess what I am saying is that its not "black and white"....."Night and Day" decisions. A "BIG" tool can make you sink as fast as it can make you swim and visa versa. Too many companies keep all their profits, spend too little on R and D, dont invest in new technologies when times are good and do the blame game when times are tough
I do understand good machinery. Every time I'm running my 3 inch belt sander I keep thinking of a wide belt…heck even 4" belt sander would help. Maybe one day I'll get a drum sander. But I would have to expand my shop. Same with a nice edgebander. I sure would love to have more than one shaper for doors. A spray booth is needed to. To do kitchens "right" I'd really need a few employees. I've watched a lot of these local shops getting swallowed up by debt. Today I'm feeling really blessed to have such a simple shop. ( I'd love a wide belt! )
To do kitchens "right" I'd really need a few employees. Dennis, I am a one man band and as much as I would love to hire an apprentice or a journeyman I refrain from it as it opens up pandoras box…......the govt walks in ie workmans compensation, pension and UIC contributions, health care contributions, vacation pay and on and on and on. So its just me building project after project and if something goes wrong then I can only blame me.
I too see many shops right now swimming in seas of endless debt, some closing their doors,.......it's kinda sad. I left a company because the partner and I were never on the same page. he did buy the CNC and I am pretty sure its gonna sink the boat, not because he bought it, but because how its used and whos using it.
I occasionally do consulting work for big companies who are implimenting or expanding their kitchen department. After much hoopla on buying sliding TS, CNC etc they took my advice and farmed it all out. Why become a wolf when you can hire the whole pack and let them spend themselves into the ground.
Growing up in a fundemental Christian Home I was taught that everything is black or white…..........50 years later I have learned that life has a lot of "grey" in it.
One more time someone told me I was too expensive so they got their cabinets at Lowes. Did they ask me for my price…No! They just assumed. The reality is every time I've bid against Lowes and apples were apples my bid was cheaper. I guess we can get brain washed. I've even seen that prejudice here at Lumberjocks. Yes most shops have gone after a high end clientele. It might even be hard to find a local cabinet maker who would do "low end" work. We even have a tendency to believe we can't compete. I know I've been surprised at how much cheaper I am than these big box stores. Then again I don't have that high over head. Heck I wont even charge you $50.00 to measure your kitchen.
I'm going to throw a pity party and you are all invited. When I get some good news I'll pass that along to. (First I'll have to get my taxes out of the way). It has been three months that I've been running this Etsy shop. I know some artisans have done OK. I'm pretty sure if I dedicated the time and energy I would have had better results. First off the price is great. The time to setup shop and download photos is significant. I figure when all is said and done I've got 1/2 hour per project. At a shop rate of $35.00 and hour….I'm not getting paid for my time. By the way this was just an experiment. I didn't expect to make much. Call it market research. Testing to see if my baskets or cutting boards would sell. The answer is no. Not a single sale. I've checked out the stats on a cutting board, 27 views. In the same time frame the one I had on lumberjocks got 495 views. 75% of the visits I got on my etsy site where from lumberjocks. My conclusion is that, once again we have more hype than substance. I would have been better off photocopying a flyer and posting it in the local Laundromat.
Just so you know I'm really getting a kick out of being a grouchy pessimist. It warms my heart.
At the risk of hijacking the thread, I wonder how other lumberjocks are doing on Etsy. Anybody want to fess up on their sales volumes via Etsy? Worth it, or should we all stick to sales flyers in the laundromat?
I am pretty immune to the little buggers. I figure I can dig a splinter out with a Phillips screwdriver while running 4X8's through the table saw. These days I'm having to use those special magnifying goggles just to see them. For some reason they are making them smaller these days. I think it has something to do with global warming. The other day I got the worst of my career. It wasn't that big. Big ones are easy. This was a skinny little oak splinter about 3/8's long. Somehow it managed to slide along the top of my finger nail and just disappear. Ouch it was worst than a paper cut and totally invisible. I wasn't even sure it was a splinter. I've had them before under my finger nail…and I know why they call that torture. This one was just evil. I just sat there staring at my red finger with my magic glasses wondering if I've lost my mind. Where could it be? After digging for an hour or so (ok maybe just a minute) I did mange to locate it. An hour (felt like it anyway) after that I manage to get it out with tweezers. I can't help but be damn grateful it's a splinter getting under my skin and not some power hungry greedy incompetent boss with an inferiority complex and anger issues. Ya I LOVE my life!
Yep that time of year. Folks are having tea parties. The economy going south. I get to see my year end, bottom line, financial worth. I don't think it will impress anyone. It sure made me wonder. This self employment gig has cut my income in half.
Maybe I need to tell you about one of my heroes. I have this buddy. Plays a mean guitar. He also is a craftsman. Does some very nice, high end, upholstery work in an 8 X 12 shop. A few years ago he was telling me how he "just gets by" on ten thousand a year. Poverty right? Yet he has a beautiful house in the mountains. Which he built himself..no mortgage. It is next to this great little trout stream. He has a few horses. Every few months he travels across the US to play music. Last year he traded a building a deck for a trip to Italy. His life is beautifully abundant.
So I guess you need to know living on half my income is making me damn grateful! Yep all you poor suckers doing that work produce consume dance. You have my sympathy. Let me tell you about my typical day. When I get out of bed…guess what no alarm clock! First I visit with the dogs, my wife, and all my buddies on Lumberjock. Take the nice stroll out to the shop and work for an hour…maybe two. Check the mail..maybe do lunch. Then back to the shop. I really try to get my full four hours in a day. On a good day I do my best piddling. Piddle on the house. Maybe piddle in the garden. Some days I piddle in the shop. The last few days I've been doing some carving on a bed for the gallery which shows my furniture.
Ya taxes suck, so I figure maybe I'll just quit making so much Damn money. Life is too short!
Then again with my hectic schedule I still haven't found time to go fishing! I'm going to have to fix that.
A few years back my cat decided to get untrained. She started crapping behind the furniture. It was pretty strange. The solution was to move her to the shop where she has access to plenty of sawdust. So I get to share my shop with cat crap. Wonderful. This cat loves to ride on my shoulders. She will sit up there while I'm cutting 4X8's or at the miter saw and just purr away. She will also stand right under your feet or try to climb your legs while at the saw! This picture is her sleeping while I'm running the table saw.
She use to be scared of every thing. People, noise, dogs…now days she has no fear. I figured out that she has lost her eye sight and her hearing. She is getting along in years. She does a great Stevie Wonder impersonation where she climbs up on something high and moves her head back and forth. Just like Stevie. Most of the time I take a break and get on LumberJocks she is sitting on my shoulders, supervising. I figured it was time you guys got to meet her. So folks meet my cat, Squeak. Shop forecat.
Tomorrow I set out to pick up my furniture from another store that has closed up. In the ten years I've been building furniture I've had my furniture in four different galleries. All of which have shut their doors. One of them more than once. This one lasted a year. The hard part is knowing how much heart the owners of these stores have invested. Let alone money and time. I see this and I know the American dream has died. What is the average? One out of ten small businesses survive? How old is that statistic? I think of all the construction companies I've worked for that have gone belly up. One out of ten would be generous. What I find interesting is every time this subject comes up it is assumed something was wrong with the business owners. Not with the system. These where good hard working Americans. "let them sell prefab crap at Target" Is that what we have become? I've been working on a large medical building with around 300+ cabinets in it. They who charge $10,000.00 a day, opted for the $1.50 non brand hinges from Taiwan as opposed to the $3.00 known brand. A savings of $450.00. I expect the hinges to fail within five years. Did I say the hinge plates got back ordered and the only place they have them is Taiwan. Capitalism based on low bid will fail. The American dream is already just that…only a dream.
I would say that you are lucky if you got your pieces back from the gallery.
I know plenty of artists that had galleries close on them and their artwork ended up in the gallery owner's mcmansion after the store closed. The gallery owners never let the artists know they were closing and their pieces were never recovered.
I know and personally share the same frustrations as you do when it comes to construction budgets and the cheap decisions that are made. I have done a lot of repairs and upgrades on commercial cabinets exactly on the items that you mention; hinges and drawer glides.
Right now I am really excited to have an abundance of work and I will focus on making hay while the sun shines.
Ya I've done had it. Guess I'll see if Thos will give me a job herding tourist. Today I turned down a chance to do the Western Design Conference. After doing shows, galleries, etsy and a web site with very little luck I'm plum out of energy. (and money) When I started I knew of 12 different galleries that had regional furniture. Now I only know 3. Two are owned by furniture builders and the other one won't even return my calls. I can't even blame it on the economy. I think it is more a change in taste and how people shop. Then again my furniture could just be too weird! This has been something I've been trying on and off for 15 years now. My heart is heavy.
dennis…I am sorry…you are an amazing craftsman and I love your work…I KNOW things would be different if the economy had any improvement…but I know you cant make a decision like this without lots of thought…
Ya I had to work today! Finely got a job and the contractor screws me on the schedule. But damn it was nice to play behind the saw. Grumbling done right has to start with the knowledge that I've got it made. One of the few independent Americans left. I get to do what my skills and talent direct me towards rather than deal with the legal/corporate/bureaucratic, anything for the mighty dollar, world of business the rest of America gets to suffer with. I sometimes grumble about how many people have lost their farms and businesses. Their independence. Their chunk of the true American dream. Which isn't money Damn It! It is the right to work for yourself, or to work with dignity. To be a craftsman and not just another body on the job.
I haven't grumbled for a long time, because this economy thing hit me square in the gut. One of the few Americans who avoided a mortgage and credit cards it just felt like I was paying for your mistakes. I knew the nature of construction when I started decades ago. I thought I was prepared. It is amazing how fast all my savings dried up when there was absolutely no work. Now things seem to be picking up.
Actually I'm pretty jazzed about this kitchen. A true custom job. Inset doors, soft close under mount slides, actual panels on the side walls instead of 1/4 inch skins. I'd forgotten how much fun cabinets could be.
So enjoy your turkeys all you nine to fivers. I'll be stuck in the shop. Happy ThanksGrumbling!
"There is a knowledge in the muscles of a workman that goes beyond the mind, a skill that lies in the flesh and the fiber, and my hands and my heart held a love of the wood…" Louis L'Amour. Words of a great wordworker.
Trying to teach woodworking to a beginner really brings this home. No matter how smart, or talented, it just takes time to learn how to hold a chisel, or run a belt sander. This is something no hobbyist can know. He might build to a higher standard (and they often do) but a professional has to work with out thought. Intuitive woodworking….
dennis i certainly agree with what your saying…after time..the tools just fit..and we know how they work without trying to figure them out…and then there is the wood…......to me …wood was and is a living thing..and i know when i work the wood…....i can feel a connection that is just there…....well what you said are good words..and good thoughts…......grizzman
Just got another buy American (insert Local for my foreign buddies) Email from someone I know who just buys the cheapest crap. I figure if half the folks who believe in "Buy American", bought American, one quarter of the time, and an eighth of the time it was of decent quality, woodworking would pay a good wage and I'd have a real job!
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