LumberJocks Woodworking Forum banner

Designing Modern vs. Traditional

3K views 16 replies 17 participants last post by  savannah505 
#1 ·
Designing Modern vs. Traditional

Have you ever wondered when you're designing a piece of furniture or box or anything made of wood, how your mind comes up with the design? What makes you say, "WOW" how did they come up with that design?" I think it has a lot to do with what influences you. For me I have been studying furniture history and the influence from the old masters, which involves carving, marquetry and other traditional techniques.

What I don't understand with my designs is that I love the new modern style but for some reason I cannot see it in my head. The best I can do is seeing an old world design in my mind. When I try and come up with a new design I always think to myself I am going to make this more modern… That just doesn't work for me like I plan. It makes me wonder if it has to do with all the studying I have done for such a long time now, if that is why I can't see any modern design styles in my mind.

Maybe I just don't have it in me to see things in a different light. My thoughts are that through the history of furniture making, furniture became more simplified over each time period. Then it jumped and created a gap from complicated to simplified and I think I am stuck in that gap.

For me, I think the closest piece to modern style, was my chess table and chairs. I am looking for some of my fellow lumberjocks to share your design process and what has influenced you when you think of your designs?
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Modern is very different from the really cool stuff you've posted. Might be you'll need quite a bit of practice before you develop a level of proficiency in this new style that can compete with the considerable proficiency you obviously have in your current style.
 
#3 ·
Good topic, Dennis.

I think we are all influenced, either consciously or subconsciously, by what we see and what appeals to our eye the most. I know when I'm thinking of a design, traditional is what I see first because it is what I like best. Don't get me wrong… I like many modern designs as well, but traditional is my default mode of thinking.

When we create a new design, I think it is always a variation of, or affected heavily by, something we have already seen. So whatever stands out most in our own minds is going to have the greatest impact on that design.
 
#4 ·
I think it runs very deep inside us. It may not be because you've studied the traditional methods and designs as much as it is involved in the reason you chose to study them. If I look at myself I see two versions of me. The boat builder is all traditional. I see no beauty in modern boat design but I have been as long as I can remember in love with the graceful lines of the traditional working boats and ships.
The furniture maker / hobbyist / woodworker side of me has no history to help or hinder it and pays little attention to modern design either. So I just design as I go and don't feel that I need to follow any rules at all.

This is a great topic Dennis. I look forward to finding out how others feel about the roots of their creativity.
 
#5 ·
good question dennis
my own background came from being around (both parents) and friends studying art
(though they never actually did much) i tried but couldn't get it to work for me
even after years of reading art and architecture and wooden boat building

my interest lay in all the masters too and in any 'off or new' changes
like gauddii (sp) and green and green anyone that went out further
even thru troubles in their time
old movies are a great place to find resources inlay-ed floors arches doors and furniture

i think that nothing is really new but we all subconsciously draw from things
we have seen and admired and add our own take to

in my own career as a designer/builder
having no formal training other than tools and building (stick)

when i had a job to do some remodel or work i would ask 'what style would you like'
colonial victorian japanese modern etc. and given the room or building itself
and the time and money for my work would 'lean' in the desired direction
yet inventing ways to accomplish that goal within the time and cost
with helpers that may or may not know much more than framing and regular trim work

i don't work with architects as i found that they don't see all the details the way a builder does
what about the heater vent or that pipe sticking out from the wall
they just gloss over things and leave it up to me to fix somehow
so in remodeling i let the building design itself as it needs
forget the rules just work honestly and give a decent project
stay within budget and on time (and code)
nobody ever complained and i never built the same thing again

in the shop i start with the need (box door chair) and work from there
i wait till i understand what i am doing first so as not to waste time or wood
many times i have an idea that seems right
but might wake in the morning and do what came to me in a 'vision'
i do have a good visual talent like the computers now that can show everything
in pieces or in any perspective i do know drafting and only draw for the clients sake
don't know anything about sketch-up or cad so don't even go there

as stated you may just be in a comfortable known place
maybe a walk on the wild side might be fun at times
with the talent that you have it would be a joy to see
 
#7 ·
Dennis,

Did you ever consider that as King Solomon (the world's wisest man, 1 Kings 4:29-34) stated in Ecclesiastes 1:9-". . . and there is no new thing under the sun."

I often think the reason we call it "modern" is merely because it has not withstood the test of time. Did men-of-old create pieces very similar to our "modern" pieces today, but no one collected them to preserve them? The classic, traditional designs that we see from ages past were preserved because they are worthy to be collected.

When you look at today's designs, they are quite often impractical and just trendy. Some may be well crafted, but will they stand the test of time in terms of creative beauty and usefulness? You don't see many people collecting (or keeping for that matter) the blonde modern furniture which was trendy fifty years ago even though it was often well crafted and more functional than some of today's modern designs.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

L/W
 
#8 ·
Not being very experienced in furniture making for me I believe that function is the first thing to influence me when I began to design a piece of furniture. The second thing that influences me are the patterns or shapes that I'll be working with and the skills and means that I can achieve to connect all of the necessary parts together to make a whole piece.

For me designing furniture is like painting a picture. In art classes I was there to create, not study art history and learn about some painters life 300 years ago. Don't get me wrong, I love to go see what they painted at the museums and I have some artist that I like more than others. And I am sure that on a subconscious level that they do influence my style of painting even though not the subject matter.

With furniture design I think I am influenced most by my own skill level. While most of my furniture has been tables I have made a couple chairs but I find chair building quite humbling. A tip of my hat to you guys that build chairs for a living, I'd starve I'm so slow. I have also found that I can design a piece of woodworking that I think is one of my better works and even win awards with it and have another similar piece that I think is not so good, and the general public likes the not so good one better. I have proof of that with some projects I have here on LJs.

Speaking of designs and LJs, I have a porch swing that I'll be posting in the next couple days that will be an example of my own design. Not that I consider a porch swing furniture, but it is my newest woodworking project and I did make some design changes from previous versions that I built.

Thanks for the topic Dennis, I'm interested in what other comments you get here.
 
#9 ·
Great topic.
A musician friend was frustrated with the huge appeal of pop music and concluded that the masses are asses and will listen to whatever is spoon fed to them. However, upon dismantling some and trying to see how it worked, he discovered that there was science to it and became intrigued. Though not a top 40-type of song writer, some of that "science" has found its way into his writing and creative flow.
 
#10 ·
As a pattern designer, I find that I must always keep in mind the customer and how difficult it will be for them to recreate one of my patterns. Although simplicity and primitive types of designs are extremely popular, I find myself leaning toward traditional fretwork designs in my work. Somehow, in my development as a designer, I have it in my head that the more intricate the detail, the better (even if that isn't what the masses are looking for.) I have made simpler patterns, but when I do, no matter how popular they are, I feel as if I somehow cheated people because I feel in my heart I could do so much better and more intricate.

One of my favorite types of design is Egyptian. When I see the amazing detail and think about how they accomplished what they did with limited tools it is truly fascinating to me. The same with Victorian work. Most of the fretwork from that era was done by hand-carving and the workmanship on Victorian pieces may be a bit busy, but nonetheless it is amazing.

I like the clean look of modern design. One wouldn't think so because of my love for detail. However, when designing, I honestly feel that I am short changing my customers if I don't put enough detail into the pieces. It almost seems too easy.

Perhaps that is where you are Dennis. You are so used to putting in a large amount of intricate detail that anything less doesn't somehow feel as if you finished your design.

In any case, I agree with all the above answers. This is a great topic to explore.

Sheila
 
#11 ·
I think you'll find archetypes in the creativity of all artist. Meaning there are common reoccuring themes you can spot in their work. Where these themes come from seems to be embedded so deep within the subconcious psyche, that it may as well be defined as a total mystery to our conscious selves. We just don't know where creativity comes from.

The best we've come up with through the ages is to simply describe creativity as Devine and other worldly. Which is a realm of existence our partial animal nature can poke around the edges of, but seemingly can't really grasp for the same reasons a dog can't understand trigonometry. It's way over our heads.

But one thing is for sure. We all exist and create. So something wonderfully incredible is going on. :)
 
#12 ·
Very basically I think it goes like this.

Everything you sense (see, hear, touch etc) and therefore learn is filtered by your own personal taste (what you like out of all of it) to influence what you design.

You like what you like. I wouldn't design the way you would and you probably wouldn't design like me.The very clever, people like Mozart, can create in 'the style of'. Something that is close to or recognisable as someone else's work or a fashion. Most people, like me, can just do their own style.

Trying isn't relevant for me. The harder I try to design something the less likely I am to succeed. Doodling, distraction techniques (daydreaming) and the period between waking and sleep all help the design process for me. The latter is the most productive but I tend to have less conscious control over what I design. The best I can do there is to push the boat out in a general direction and let the current of my subconscious take it where it will. Only when I know what I want to build can I do any conscious work. Usually trying to figure out how the heck I'm going to make something I've dreamed up.
 
#13 ·
I had to laugh when David (patron) talked about architects and how they overlook the things like venting, pipework, plumbing etc. I worked on a huge house once that had a 30ft. cathedral ceiling. In an upstairs bathroom the ceiling went from about 16ft down to 4ft. Where the ceiling was 4ft high is where the architect put a bathtub with shower. To solve this oversight, instead of moving the tub, he had us put in a skylight, so you could stand in the tub and shower. It was hilarious, while standing in the tub, depending on your height, you would be looking out onto the rooftop, and a beautiful view of the river and woodland, behind the house. All we could think of was his beautiful wife taking her shower with a bunch of onlookers with binoculars watching from the woods.
I agree, our tastes, artistic influence or whatever you will, comes from our own personal likes and dislikes, and we incorporate those things in our own work. Our own Art History, you might say.
 
#14 ·
Dennis, after reading the posts, there seems to be a common theme driving us to design and create whatever it is we build.To me, it seems prior masterpieces and ability are strong influences in what fellow woodworkers are creating.I personaly have admired your incredible ability to create masterpieces, that which quite frankly not many can duplicate. With that said, do you think your ability steers you in the direction of ornate complicated pieces to build, rather than say the clean lines of a ultra modern or contemporary piece?
 
#15 ·
Great topic Dennis. Although I'm no master furniture builder, I have to say that the type and style of furniture that appeals to me the most is also those of the "masters". To me the appex of style came about during the queen anne, chippendale, and federal periods. The beauty and overall visual balance of the pieces built during these periods is unsurpassed. I like some of the modern stuff, but for me it's a little too austere with no character.
 
#16 ·
Good design is a topic we all benefit from studying. There are reasons (such as the golden mean or proportion) why some items of furniture, boxes, architecture, or whatever, are "beautiful". The more we try to understand these, the better chance we have of creating something that will have value and stand the test of time. Gee, if it were simple, we'd all be making beautiful things our forebears would treasure.

There is a helpful article in Wikipedia under the topic of "aesthetics" that some might find helpful. Writer points out that "aesthetics" is the philosophical study of beauty, and that "taste" is a function of education and social class. Whether or not this assertion is true, it's something provocative to think about. Probably above my pay grade, but I think about it anyway.

My personal preferences are for that period around 1800 which happens to be the "Golden Age" of a lot of things like Kentucky rifles, furniture, architecture, and more. I don't like to directly copy another's work, though I have nothing against nice reproductions, but rather to prefer to work in the school, or style of one of the masters of the time, and make something that "might have been made by" one of them. As a box maker, I'm very much a disciple of Andrew Crawford, and that certainly shows in my boxes. However, I don't look to just copy his boxes, rather to merge what I have learned from him, and apply it to the period or school I find most appealing (around 1800).

Modernism does not appeal to me much, though some pieces can be really good. When Mies van der Rohe said "Less is more." I think he was refining his sales pitch. Less is generally just less. My taste, for whatever reason, just does not go there. Modernism has a very strong intellectual element, and if you don't buy into the intellectual part, it's a lot harder to admire the items that follow from it.

Whatever one's preferences may be, we all benefit from giving a lot of thought to the process and result of design. Craftsmanship is good, but a perfectly crafted, but poorly designed item, is still ugly. Design seems to overpower craftsmanship in the final balance. i.e. craftsmanship alone is not enough.

My brief take on the topic, for what it's worth. I'm still trying to get it right like most everyone else.

Roger
 
#17 ·
Dennis - It seems to me that after reading the prior posts on this, that most of what my fellow LJ's are saying is pretty much unusable for you. Not trying to be offensive to them, but most are just saying what they like, or they let others influence what they end up with. First let me say something that I've said to others for a long time - no matter how much art school or classes a person takes, if being able to create something new is not in them, then it will not be there for them. I see in you the ability to create beautiful pieces, but also see the ability to put together designs that are heavily influenced by your studies of the old masters. I've always held that my own abilities are given by God and is a gift, just as the ability you have to create such beautiful things is also a gift from Him. Talent in any shape or occupation is a gift given by God. For me, it sometimes just "pops" into my head, but having never studied, but only admired the work of the masters, my designs mainly come from nature itself, those things created by God, the true master of all things we see. Just as you find that beauty and make the selection of the wood you use because of it's beauty, you are choosing something God created in the first place. Study nature, the flowing curves of a whale, the way a flower is formed, the way a wave breaks onto the beach or a birds wings are shaped. Then look at these things in a furniture aspect, how these flows and curves can be used for you and what do you "see" coming from them. I always make functionality and comfort a high priority in my designs, otherwise it is not that practical in real time use. I try to use and let come forth the beauty of the material first, the stone, the wood, to be my focal point. I disagree with those here that say nothing new can be done anymore, those are the people who don't have vision. History has shown us that there have been people who say there is nothing new left to create, they are constantly proven wrong, the same is true in design, and LJ's should prove that with some of the things I've seen on this site. I think you have the "gift" to do this, now study the real master of us all, study Gods work and I think it will start falling in place for you. I'm always admiring your work, and you have had a great influence on me. - Dan
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top